avi
Keymaster
An interesting article: The redBus sale: A cautionary tale http://www.livemint.com/Companies/tBeYdNTIP6rXT7c7d5qLSJ/The-redBus-sale-A-cautionary-tale.html
The redBus sale: A cautionary tale
- Thread starter avi
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Grab your popcorn and look out for housing.com in near future 
redhotiron2004
Forerunner
Well, who cares for employees anyways. And employees also only care about there salaries to be credited on time. Otherwise they would cut loose havoc on the company.
Employees were there for the salaries and not because they wanted to support the founder and all. 'behti ganga mein sab hath dhona chahte hain'. The employees got greedy. Even when they got there salaries on time. They thought that phani(founder) was making money then why sould they not get a big chunk as well.
There is nothing wrong in founder making money. After all, profit abd loss both are his responsibility and risks. If the company would make losses then the employees would run away and only the founder and investors would be left to tackle the mess.
So, why should employees even be considered?
It would have been good if they would have been given something extra. But, even if nothing was given still I don't see anything wrong here.
Employees were there for the salaries and not because they wanted to support the founder and all. 'behti ganga mein sab hath dhona chahte hain'. The employees got greedy. Even when they got there salaries on time. They thought that phani(founder) was making money then why sould they not get a big chunk as well.
There is nothing wrong in founder making money. After all, profit abd loss both are his responsibility and risks. If the company would make losses then the employees would run away and only the founder and investors would be left to tackle the mess.
So, why should employees even be considered?
It would have been good if they would have been given something extra. But, even if nothing was given still I don't see anything wrong here.
^^ Understand the issue properly before you start talking about it. Its not just about the people in the senior management or employees becoming greedy. Even the employees who had ESOPs were apparently told that they won't be paid once their options vested as per the original agreements. Instead of offering same or better benefits, Ibibo's retention plan was to delay the payments due to the employees as per their contracts in order to make them stay longer to get their dues. There is nothing wrong in the founder making money and quite often, they are the only people who make decent money from a sell out. But then, apparently both the founder and the new management have taken the agreements and promises made with the employees for granted and decided that the new management can amend them as they wish.
In a purely professional employer-employee relationship, the employee works sincerely and the employer awards fair remuneration as per prior agreement. The intent of any responsible management would be retain the people who are responsible for the companies success because they often the key to the continued success of the company. They are basically utilizing and rewarding their employees.
But the sort of behavior from the new management generally indicates that they are only interested in keeping the employees in the short term and don't care for them staying after a few years. They want to either use the employees till they need them by withholding their dues or expecting them to leave without their dues. The impulse of any self respecting individual in such an environment would be to reciprocate in a similar manner. i.e. get what ever is due to them and get away from the company.
In a purely professional employer-employee relationship, the employee works sincerely and the employer awards fair remuneration as per prior agreement. The intent of any responsible management would be retain the people who are responsible for the companies success because they often the key to the continued success of the company. They are basically utilizing and rewarding their employees.
But the sort of behavior from the new management generally indicates that they are only interested in keeping the employees in the short term and don't care for them staying after a few years. They want to either use the employees till they need them by withholding their dues or expecting them to leave without their dues. The impulse of any self respecting individual in such an environment would be to reciprocate in a similar manner. i.e. get what ever is due to them and get away from the company.
Acquisitions are messy (been through a few of them, never made money). I know one case where the seller managed to get a super sweet deal for the employees but in most cases they will sell you short.
The best way to survive is to cooperate with the new employers. They are looking for allies and will appreciate any efforts to build bridges. If you demand too much, they will fire you and take away all your 'rights'. (It looks like the ibibo had agreed to pay the amount, though at the end of each financial year. I can't see why that became such an issue.)
From the article:
"And since he wasn’t hoping to do any work, Sama didn’t care to get a local SIM card. So there was no one bothering him with calls or emails."
Seriously, why was anyone surprised? A skinflint CEO who thinks it is ok to go dark during a crucial time will care little about you.
The best way to survive is to cooperate with the new employers. They are looking for allies and will appreciate any efforts to build bridges. If you demand too much, they will fire you and take away all your 'rights'. (It looks like the ibibo had agreed to pay the amount, though at the end of each financial year. I can't see why that became such an issue.)
From the article:
"And since he wasn’t hoping to do any work, Sama didn’t care to get a local SIM card. So there was no one bothering him with calls or emails."
Seriously, why was anyone surprised? A skinflint CEO who thinks it is ok to go dark during a crucial time will care little about you.
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sharktale1212
Herald
July 16, 2014. I was wondering why sudden interest Redbus buyout 
I remember one of the threads in GT about someone who had ESOPs and was not sure how to buy/tax implications. Now you would think companies will spend sometime educating people about this (my company does). That way no one has a misunderstanding of what an ESOP entails. And it wouldn't hurt for people to read their contracts carefully. Just because the HR talks about lakhs you will make from ESOPS doesn't mean you shouldn't pore into it carefully. In most cases, it wont talk about situation like these. And in most cases, it will mean the eventual conversions in case of buying out will lead to lowered ESOP values, either by delayed vesting or complicated swaps.
I remember one of the threads in GT about someone who had ESOPs and was not sure how to buy/tax implications. Now you would think companies will spend sometime educating people about this (my company does). That way no one has a misunderstanding of what an ESOP entails. And it wouldn't hurt for people to read their contracts carefully. Just because the HR talks about lakhs you will make from ESOPS doesn't mean you shouldn't pore into it carefully. In most cases, it wont talk about situation like these. And in most cases, it will mean the eventual conversions in case of buying out will lead to lowered ESOP values, either by delayed vesting or complicated swaps.
redhotiron2004
Forerunner
So in the end everyone was greedy including the new buyers( rightly so, they paid for it. They have to make profit and must do what they deem right for that) and the old employees. And no one was innocent.
Some gain and some people loose. Here the employees lost( supposedly) for there extra greed. I will say 'jaise ko tesa Mila'(U get the same as you reap).
And if they think they were right then why didn't they go to court?
I know why. Because, no matter how much you and me discuss about who was wrong and who was right( here nobody was right or wrong. All were working on greed) the fact is that the employees themselves knew that they are wrong in becoming greedy. And technically fani(founder) was right in his place.
So, it pans out that technically nothing wrong was done. The losses were the one to make/create all the fuss in the hope to get something more out of it( which they didnt get).
If anybody(losers) have any problem then go to court. If not then shut down and stop being greedy and keep on working instead of trying to make easy money.
Some gain and some people loose. Here the employees lost( supposedly) for there extra greed. I will say 'jaise ko tesa Mila'(U get the same as you reap).
And if they think they were right then why didn't they go to court?
I know why. Because, no matter how much you and me discuss about who was wrong and who was right( here nobody was right or wrong. All were working on greed) the fact is that the employees themselves knew that they are wrong in becoming greedy. And technically fani(founder) was right in his place.
So, it pans out that technically nothing wrong was done. The losses were the one to make/create all the fuss in the hope to get something more out of it( which they didnt get).
If anybody(losers) have any problem then go to court. If not then shut down and stop being greedy and keep on working instead of trying to make easy money.
techie_007
Galvanizer
You have clearly never worked for a startup and have no clue about how stock options are supposed to work, or how people are incentivised to work for startups. Having worked for multiple startups, I can tell you that you need to do more research.
Try running a Google search on how many employees made money when their companies either got sold or became publicly listed. There are enough examples out there. In most such cases, the employees trust the founder to take care of their interest as well, and sometimes, that doesn't happen, and even more rarely, it becomes public.
The main problem is that its really really hard to get justice in this country. This is the country where a victim who was tortured, raped and murdered in public is yet to get justice despite a fast track court and the culprits and their defense lawyers are giving interviews blaming the victim
How long do you think a case by these employees would take to get a hearing and how long would it run? In addition, no other company would like to offer job to person who sued their former employer even if they have full justification to do so. A company can breach an employee contract and get away with it easily. In case of big companies, they are more fearful of the damage to the brand caused by such scandals going public and hence they don't usually do it. But for start-ups, which no real brand value to talk about, but only potential for the future, it doesn't matter at all to them. There are many start ups where people have had to forgo salary dues, leave alone perks and other stuff mentioned in their contracts.
You clearly either have no idea how working in start-ups is like or your ethics are on the same standards as this guy Phani. I would like to see how you would behave if one fine day, your company decides to stop all the bonuses and other perks that were promised to you in your employment contract.
redhotiron2004
Forerunner
Come on guys, don't behave like sore losers. I don't need to work for a startup to know what's so clearly evident here. You can make as many dream castles as you want. But ultimately only a few gets there dreams fulfilled. Not all can be winners. And when there are winners then losers have to there. Its not a prefect world. Be practical and move on.
It doesn't matter what rules you make. Until or unless they can be enforced or supported by law. They are useless. Merely saying that the court takes a long time doesn't make your case justifiable. Sure you can have your own opinion on what is and wrong. But, your opinion doesn't matter unless you are willing to challenge it in the court of law.
And only 1 out of 100 startups makes it. What happens to the employees of the other 99 startups? Go ahead look up at google and get your understanding right. Most employees don't even care. They have no liability. And the founders or investors are the ones to bear the burnt. Why don't you raise there case? If the employees expect the profits apart from salaries then why shouldn't they be made a party to loses?
I tell you why. Because you are greedy and have no right to question the hard work and risk taking capability of the founders or investors.
The only reason why startups make it is because of the risk, knowledge, skills and hard work done by the founders and investors. They employ workers for salary and those are abundantantly available.
Particular contacts with different employees is a different issue and can be challenged in the court of law. But, merely opinions and what should have been done are just trivial issues and doesn't hold any substance.
So, stop telling stories. And get real. I don't see anything wrong with what the investors and founders did. If you have any problem, have the courage to challenge it in court otherwise keep quite.
techie_007
Galvanizer
avi
Keymaster
anuragingle
Explorer
redhotiron2004
Forerunner
The day you would sum up the courage to start your own venture. Work day and night for it and suddenly people from all over including your employees who had no liability would start asking for share and credit in the company that you fought for and had all your stakes. That very day you would understand the gravity of what you just said.
anuragingle
Explorer
The day a person decides to f**ck senior management as well as low level employees just for for money is the day he should have gotten beaten up royally by said senior managers as well as other employees.
A company is never built up by 1 person, everybody who is working there right from your senior managers to the low level employees are responsible for the success of the company.
What Sama did when he sold off redbus was profit massively from the efforts of all employees who made redbus a success without sharing those profits with the employees.
Leave aside sharing profits Sama didnt even ensure that the employees would get retained by ibibo.
And this mentality by Sama is typically shared by the majority of Indian senior managers and owners i.e. let your employees get f**ked but dont share any profits with them
A company is never built up by 1 person, everybody who is working there right from your senior managers to the low level employees are responsible for the success of the company.
What Sama did when he sold off redbus was profit massively from the efforts of all employees who made redbus a success without sharing those profits with the employees.
Leave aside sharing profits Sama didnt even ensure that the employees would get retained by ibibo.
And this mentality by Sama is typically shared by the majority of Indian senior managers and owners i.e. let your employees get f**ked but dont share any profits with them
Then such people should not make promises they can't keep. Starting a venture and working night and day is hardly an excuse for defrauding people working for you who have might also be working hard for you. If you don't want to give ESOP's or other benefits, then don't sign contracts saying you would. Then people who are not interested won't join the company. How hard is it that to understand.
Start ups don't offer good salaries nor stability. They make up for it by offering other incentives like ESOPs, share in the company. If employees are going to get screwed out of the benefits that they were offered when they joined, then there is no point for them being there.
Your POV seems to be that its fine for you as a venture owner to write anything in contracts to get people to join and work for your venture, but it is greedy of those employees to demand that you keep your part of the bargain. An architect at my company who was making 80 Lac/Anum left us to join a startup for 36 LPA. He was offered a share in the company as well as few other benefits. He worked 15 hours/day to get put the company on the path to success. Do you seriously think that he is greedy if he asks for the benefits that he was promised?
People do not always get justice when they are wronged, but that does not mean that the perpetrator of the crime is in the right and the victims are in the wrong. Some body might beat you up and there might be nothing you can do about it even if you go to the police and the courts, but it does not mean that you got what you deserved. You can also get get falsely implicated in a murder case. You might not be able to prove that you are innocent, but that does not still mean that your punishment is deserved just because our legal system failed you.
My uncle was illegally transferred from his job without there being a position to transfer into. He was therefore left without a job and he fought in courts for over last 15 years. Though the courts gave verdicts in his favor, they were never complied with. His went past his retirement age during this period. After long last, he was at least allowed to get a pension, but it can hardly be called justice. Not getting justice in the courts still does not mean what happened to him was right.
Your posts over this thread prove that are completely ignorant, immature and unqualified to even talk about these things . So please stop the nonsense and think about talking on such things when you grow up a little.
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anuragingle
Explorer
he he maybe redhotiron2004's manager is watching this thread, thts why he is ass licking so much lol 
Forget about big words like 'justice', it is foolish for an entrepreneur to run away with all the money. Smart people will refuse to work for you if you do not share the profits. I have watched some entrepreneurs closely and the successful ones have a very dedicated team that follows them wherever they go.
I would be very interested in what Mr Sama does next and how he attracts people for his next venture.
I would be very interested in what Mr Sama does next and how he attracts people for his next venture.
redhotiron2004
Forerunner
Dont generalize something that happened with your uncle and put entrepreneurs like sama in the same wrong perspective that you have.
I am not going to be personal here. People are unlucky and its not a fair world. And just because your uncle got fuc*ed up. Doesn't mean that everbody out there have the motive to get you. Have a positive outlook.
Do you have the slightest idea of the jobs situation in india. Do you know how many people are still left jobless? There is an old saying. Beggars cannot be choosers. You might not want to understand or accept this right now. But, its because of entrepreneurs( that you are against) that people are able to get salaries and able to work.
I can give a lot of examples where the workers formed union against there bosses or entrepreneurs which resulted in shutting down the complete (sugar)mills or industries etc overnight. And in the end the workers remained jobless.
They accused and bit the same person who fed them. Ultimately they were the ones to pay.
Even getting a job is not easy nowadays. And you are talking about partnerships in companies! Lol
Always remember one thing. A businessman or an entrepreneur would never want to get into any legal hassel. Nor, he/she would ever reject/fire any employee whom he sees as an asset to his company. There are always 2 sides of a situation. And if a person is being fired or thrown out then all the onus cannot be put on the businessman. Maybe the employee ceased to be competitive or have some major problem due to which he is unfit or inferior(vs another candidate). And there is nothing wrong in that. I don't know the details of your uncle. So, I won't comment further. But, the underlying causes I have already mentioned above.
Also I have mentioned before, legal contacts if any that had been entered into with the particular employees can and should be challenged in the court of law. But, out of so many people(according to you) who have entered into the profit contract with sama. Not even a single one have challenged it. And I know very well. That in case they would win. They stand to gain so much that they might not have to work again for a long time. Still, no one have come up against a single guy sama!
Do you know what it means?
It means that there is no legal obligation as far as the contacts go. Also, contacts are usually and mostly one sided. On this case because the employees needed the job. They must be in favor of sama. And thus cannot be challenged.
Don't think that by spreading rumours things would get in your favor. Also, never cut the same branch/hand that feeds you. If you do. You would definately have to bear the consequences.
You are extremely ignorant of entrepreneurs because of whom you are what you are. Don't discourage the entrepreneurs because of your petty issues. The day when entrepreneurs would cease to exist. The same day your own(workers) pride would cease to exist.
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