Storage Solutions There's An Issue With the Western Digital Green Drives!!
- Thread starter broadway
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djmykey
Forerunner
6pack said:
So true... I have backed up all the critical / data I cannot live without and rest all crap I don't care. So really even if it dies I'm good until they RMA it for me :bleh: And its not that I havent been there... my 2 Seagate 7200.11's died on me before; so now I'm prepared
YoGi-Sama
Galvanizer
@6pack: my 3 x WD 1TB green ARE backup drives, at least for my work files. Some of my media is stored on my desktop and copy is on those 1TB drives, but still majority of my media is on 3TBs.
Worst come worst, I'll have purchase another 3 x 1TB drives, but buying all those three in one go ain't easy on wallet, Not to mention setting it up again and backing up all the data again... catch my drift yet?
Worst come worst, I'll have purchase another 3 x 1TB drives, but buying all those three in one go ain't easy on wallet, Not to mention setting it up again and backing up all the data again... catch my drift yet?
MohitPreet
Forerunner
so which one to buy now!
i m really confused
is seagate 1TB 7200.12 good enough as a backup drive or that also has a hig failure t=rate as 7200.11?
i m really confused
is seagate 1TB 7200.12 good enough as a backup drive or that also has a hig failure t=rate as 7200.11?
The Sauron
Forerunner
Any one with problematic WD green HDD? Let the HDD first develop error, then talk about this parking bug.
this is scary
i bought a 1tb seagte 2 weeks back only bocz the dealer had no wd green hdd with him
now with 2x500gb wd greens i am worried.
and i was considering buying a 1tb wd green to backup the data in my seagate 7200.12 1tb drive.
is there a firmware version upgrade to solve this issue?
i need to buy a 1tb hdd in a couple of days---what brand should i get now?????
seagate has issues--returned my 1tb hdd within 24hrs bocz of some noise coming out of it and then got a new one from the dealer,wd has problems now,hitachi is rubbish---my 160gb external 2.5 inch drive died and has been sent to mumbai to prime abgb.samsung is rubbish bcoz of the experiences i've had,fujitsu is unavailable,maxtor is rubbish bcoz people say its rubbish.................any more vendors making hdds?
i bought a 1tb seagte 2 weeks back only bocz the dealer had no wd green hdd with him
now with 2x500gb wd greens i am worried.
and i was considering buying a 1tb wd green to backup the data in my seagate 7200.12 1tb drive.
is there a firmware version upgrade to solve this issue?
i need to buy a 1tb hdd in a couple of days---what brand should i get now?????
seagate has issues--returned my 1tb hdd within 24hrs bocz of some noise coming out of it and then got a new one from the dealer,wd has problems now,hitachi is rubbish---my 160gb external 2.5 inch drive died and has been sent to mumbai to prime abgb.samsung is rubbish bcoz of the experiences i've had,fujitsu is unavailable,maxtor is rubbish bcoz people say its rubbish.................any more vendors making hdds?
The problem isn't linux specific. It's quite simple. If the head is parking after every 8 seconds of inactivity then any program that wishes to access something on the disc will kick the head back into action.
XP users who own "any" green drive can help by posting there LCC values here. Mention how long old your drive is.
XP users who own "any" green drive can help by posting there LCC values here. Mention how long old your drive is.
parasharenator
Contributor
god.A issue that had been reported about 2 years ago,is being discussed with such a ferocity!!
Had read it before...
But sharmapu quoted the link before.Appreciate the effort.
As reiterated many times...
The issue is more associated with linux machines since they go idle most of the times and hence the disc parks(read: soft park)
and does not most of windows users who are busy pawning someone, watching pr0n,or Techenclaving,or basically doing something:tongue:
Now,there are some models of the greens that do have higher LCC counts because of faulty firmware.but some of those drives are old(like 4 platter 'eacs')
or the newer 500GB platter ones,,
wiz. the 1tb(2x500GB platter)-WD10EADS-00M2B0 and the 2tb(4x500GB platter)-----am not sure whether this issue is on the 2TB.but am assuming,since it also uses 500GB platter ..so it may be there.
But not many of us have those (high LCC-caused by firmware)drives...
Simply...because they are not available in market.
The most widely used model 1TB green is WD10EADS-00L5B1(this is the 3 platter model)
And most fellow Techenclavers with 1TB green don't have the said problem
apart from maybe a guy,who got the 2platter(00M2B0) as RMA...and happened to post his HDtach scores on the relevant thread.
But,it's still better to check the compatible drives(all manufacturers)
[WHETHER YOU PLAN TO BUY A NEW ONE,or JUST WANT TO CHECK YOUR OLD ONE]
Synology Inc. • View topic - Will larger size HDDs (ie, 1TB, 1.5TB, 2TB) work with my Syn
or the complete list:
Synology Inc. - NEW NAS Experience - Support :: Help Center :: What hard drive models...
and.
even then if you are not satisfied,
you may do a smart analysis using HDtune or similar utility
Then do this:
1.And Note down LCC values,if they are in millions,then it's bad.as max is 300K as reported by the manufacturer(again refer to your specific drive/model's Manufacturer's manual)
2.If you have a newer disk,then values won't be that high.so try the next step.
3.THE STEP THAT MATTERS: try using minimal processes,better to have pc in idle state.and measure the Increase in LCC values(from smart) per hour.
if you get more than 50-60,then intellipark affects you
and if less than 10,it doesn't.
Now,even those guys that are affected( i mean very high LCC values,,hundreds of thousands,and/or have LCC/hour values greater than 50-60:
1. fiddle with wdidle.exe and decrease the parking times.
you may check these forums Synology Inc. • View forum - Hardware Compatibility Lists
2.regardless of whether you do 1,,backup sensitive data.and enjoy your warranty!
Summary:
But this shouldn't stop us from buying the WDC greens :tongue:
as such things happen,seagate had even worse firmware issues with
7200.11(and they were not just bad SMART reports) but failures.
But then they fixed it with 7200.12..So,it's just a cycle of events.that's why there's a thing called warranty and there's also backup(backup sensitive data---this should be done on all HDDs perse,as alll are gonna fail someday)
PLUS:SMART values itself are not the final words at all ,as reported by google.as it's bad report need not necessarily mean failure is imminent and also some times it gave a valid check and then the drive fails....
but is definitely more pronounced for linux.And has more to do with bad firmware(intellipark) on few older models.
and it parks when their is inactivity,linux (written as per low performance computers) sits idle most of the time,hence the case.
but even if you are using a messenger like skype,then disk is not inactive.
guys,use your own judgement.
Had read it before...
But sharmapu quoted the link before.Appreciate the effort.
As reiterated many times...
The issue is more associated with linux machines since they go idle most of the times and hence the disc parks(read: soft park)
and does not most of windows users who are busy pawning someone, watching pr0n,or Techenclaving,or basically doing something:tongue:
Now,there are some models of the greens that do have higher LCC counts because of faulty firmware.but some of those drives are old(like 4 platter 'eacs')
or the newer 500GB platter ones,,
wiz. the 1tb(2x500GB platter)-WD10EADS-00M2B0 and the 2tb(4x500GB platter)-----am not sure whether this issue is on the 2TB.but am assuming,since it also uses 500GB platter ..so it may be there.
But not many of us have those (high LCC-caused by firmware)drives...
Simply...because they are not available in market.
The most widely used model 1TB green is WD10EADS-00L5B1(this is the 3 platter model)
And most fellow Techenclavers with 1TB green don't have the said problem
apart from maybe a guy,who got the 2platter(00M2B0) as RMA...and happened to post his HDtach scores on the relevant thread.
But,it's still better to check the compatible drives(all manufacturers)
[WHETHER YOU PLAN TO BUY A NEW ONE,or JUST WANT TO CHECK YOUR OLD ONE]
Synology Inc. • View topic - Will larger size HDDs (ie, 1TB, 1.5TB, 2TB) work with my Syn
or the complete list:
Synology Inc. - NEW NAS Experience - Support :: Help Center :: What hard drive models...
and.
even then if you are not satisfied,
you may do a smart analysis using HDtune or similar utility
Then do this:
1.And Note down LCC values,if they are in millions,then it's bad.as max is 300K as reported by the manufacturer(again refer to your specific drive/model's Manufacturer's manual)
2.If you have a newer disk,then values won't be that high.so try the next step.
3.THE STEP THAT MATTERS: try using minimal processes,better to have pc in idle state.and measure the Increase in LCC values(from smart) per hour.
if you get more than 50-60,then intellipark affects you
and if less than 10,it doesn't.
Now,even those guys that are affected( i mean very high LCC values,,hundreds of thousands,and/or have LCC/hour values greater than 50-60:
1. fiddle with wdidle.exe and decrease the parking times.
you may check these forums Synology Inc. • View forum - Hardware Compatibility Lists
2.regardless of whether you do 1,,backup sensitive data.and enjoy your warranty!
Summary:
But this shouldn't stop us from buying the WDC greens :tongue:
as such things happen,seagate had even worse firmware issues with
7200.11(and they were not just bad SMART reports) but failures.
But then they fixed it with 7200.12..So,it's just a cycle of events.that's why there's a thing called warranty and there's also backup(backup sensitive data---this should be done on all HDDs perse,as alll are gonna fail someday)
PLUS:SMART values itself are not the final words at all ,as reported by google.as it's bad report need not necessarily mean failure is imminent and also some times it gave a valid check and then the drive fails....
broadway said:
but is definitely more pronounced for linux.And has more to do with bad firmware(intellipark) on few older models.
and it parks when their is inactivity,linux (written as per low performance computers) sits idle most of the time,hence the case.
but even if you are using a messenger like skype,then disk is not inactive.
guys,use your own judgement.
How many of you are actually worried about and/or facing this problem?
I have a WD15EADS (1.5TB) that I've been checking on.
Simple solution: Turn off Speedfan if you have it enabled. With it enabled I'm seeing LCC ~8.5-9 per hour, with it off about 2 per hour. If you don't have Speedfan, there is no reason to see high LCC. Remember the GP drives were never meant as OS drives or for use in a always-on environment such as a NAS, which is the only other time you'd see counts this high.
Additionally, WD has clarified that there is no problem with warranty or operation after the 300,000 LCC is passed. This is an old issue, which has since been resolved, and is a nerd-driven issue and not a real one (not my words, look through the SPCR threads). There is an issue with Linux, as correctly noted, but that is because as an OS it is incapable of working with power-saving friendly components.
The only drives that may be affected by this are the older EACS 16MB drives, and even then calling it a problem is suspect. SMART has nothing to do with hard drive failure mechanisms, it's a software readout of a hardware feature and is guessing (at best) the status.
I do have one EACS drive that has been pretty much running 24x7 for the last year or so, and no issues so far. I have another one that reallocated sectors and got RMA'ed in a month, the replacement lasted 5 days sitting idle in a cupboard, and the next in line is a EADS, so no further issues.
@moshel: There is no telling if your drive will be fine. Drives were going kaput long before this was reported as a problem, and will continue to go kaput whether you get this attribute flagged or not. Keep backups and protect yourself from data loss, as it is a matter of chance, not some stupid software reading. There is no substitute for a good backup strategy, not with drive quality falling like it is.
I have a WD15EADS (1.5TB) that I've been checking on.
Simple solution: Turn off Speedfan if you have it enabled. With it enabled I'm seeing LCC ~8.5-9 per hour, with it off about 2 per hour. If you don't have Speedfan, there is no reason to see high LCC. Remember the GP drives were never meant as OS drives or for use in a always-on environment such as a NAS, which is the only other time you'd see counts this high.
Additionally, WD has clarified that there is no problem with warranty or operation after the 300,000 LCC is passed. This is an old issue, which has since been resolved, and is a nerd-driven issue and not a real one (not my words, look through the SPCR threads). There is an issue with Linux, as correctly noted, but that is because as an OS it is incapable of working with power-saving friendly components.
The only drives that may be affected by this are the older EACS 16MB drives, and even then calling it a problem is suspect. SMART has nothing to do with hard drive failure mechanisms, it's a software readout of a hardware feature and is guessing (at best) the status.
I do have one EACS drive that has been pretty much running 24x7 for the last year or so, and no issues so far. I have another one that reallocated sectors and got RMA'ed in a month, the replacement lasted 5 days sitting idle in a cupboard, and the next in line is a EADS, so no further issues.
@moshel: There is no telling if your drive will be fine. Drives were going kaput long before this was reported as a problem, and will continue to go kaput whether you get this attribute flagged or not. Keep backups and protect yourself from data loss, as it is a matter of chance, not some stupid software reading. There is no substitute for a good backup strategy, not with drive quality falling like it is.
cranky said:
I always got the impression they were indeed targeting NAS applications with the GP. There are hardly any other areas where the lower power consumption / cooler temps would come into play significantly.
In fact, even the Drobos offer bundles with GP drives : Data Robotics, Inc. Online Store - Drobo
Any other drives you would recommend for NAS applications?
You are right though in that this is just another parameter that will be misunderstood. Reallocated sector counts and spin retry counts are probably the more accurate SMART indicators of a dying drive.
On a side note, I think I had read somewhere that WD had 'fixed' the issue in certain newer firmware by making the drive lie about the LCC parameter :lol:
Gannu said:/*Thank god my torrent rig runs a 500AAKS.
Looking at the title, I thought Amarbir sir came up with something!
Gannu ,
You Remember That Heat Issue Debate On E Long Time Back ,I Am Going To Dig It Up And Do a Extensive Review I Still Hold My Opinion Though Elite Members Like My Friend Lord Nemesis Etc Were Also Of The Other Opition Lolz .during This Time Period My Knowledge Of HDD Repair And Recovery Has Increased Many Folds .:tongue:
Let's just say they redirected the parameter to prevent 'nerd panic'.
A hard drive head never touches the platter, so the only thing that a high LCC could possibly lead to is wearing of the actuators.
I am absolutely sure of the NAS issue. WD support does not extend to Linux for the GP drives, and most NAS devices run..... Linux. TBH, I don't know what to use for NAS, but I suppose (if I had to) I would bite the bullet and get myself a couple of GPs - couldn't be bothered, with the 5-year warranty and door to door replacement.
malhotraraul
Galvanizer
last week i brought 2 Western Digital WD 1TB SATA Hard Disk Green WD10EADS (32mb)
Performance Specifications
Transfer Rates
Buffer To Host (Serial ATA) 3 Gb/s (Max)
Physical Specifications
Formatted Capacity 1,000,204 MB
Capacity 1 TB
Interface SATA 3 Gb/s
User Sectors Per Drive 976,773,168
Physical Dimensions
English
Height 1.028 Inches
Length 5.787 Inches
Width 4.00 Inches
Weight 1.61 Pounds
Metric
Height 26.1 mm
Length 147 mm
Width 101.6 mm
Weight 0.73 kg
Environmental Specifications
Shock
Operating Shock (Read) 65G, 2 ms
Non-operating Shock 300G, 2 ms
Acoustics
Idle Mode 25 dBA (average)
Seek Mode 0 29 dBA (average)
Seek Mode 3 26 dBA (average)
Vibration
Operating
Linear 20-300 Hz, .75G (0 to peak)
Random 10-300 Hz, 0.008 g² / Hz
Non-operating
Low Frequency 5-20 Hz, 0.195 inches (double amplitude)
High Frequency 20-500 Hz, 4.0G (0 to peak)
Electrical Specifications
Current Requirements
Power Dissipation
Read/Write 6.00 Watts
Idle 3.7 Watts
Standby 0.80 Watts
Sleep 0.80 Watts
i am not panicking or not afraid that i invested 8k, will go with the flow & only worry about if & when things happen.
Performance Specifications
Transfer Rates
Buffer To Host (Serial ATA) 3 Gb/s (Max)
Physical Specifications
Formatted Capacity 1,000,204 MB
Capacity 1 TB
Interface SATA 3 Gb/s
User Sectors Per Drive 976,773,168
Physical Dimensions
English
Height 1.028 Inches
Length 5.787 Inches
Width 4.00 Inches
Weight 1.61 Pounds
Metric
Height 26.1 mm
Length 147 mm
Width 101.6 mm
Weight 0.73 kg
Environmental Specifications
Shock
Operating Shock (Read) 65G, 2 ms
Non-operating Shock 300G, 2 ms
Acoustics
Idle Mode 25 dBA (average)
Seek Mode 0 29 dBA (average)
Seek Mode 3 26 dBA (average)
Vibration
Operating
Linear 20-300 Hz, .75G (0 to peak)
Random 10-300 Hz, 0.008 g² / Hz
Non-operating
Low Frequency 5-20 Hz, 0.195 inches (double amplitude)
High Frequency 20-500 Hz, 4.0G (0 to peak)
Electrical Specifications
Current Requirements
Power Dissipation
Read/Write 6.00 Watts
Idle 3.7 Watts
Standby 0.80 Watts
Sleep 0.80 Watts
i am not panicking or not afraid that i invested 8k, will go with the flow & only worry about if & when things happen.
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