Anything out of orthodox or not "normal" as per our archaic society is considered such. Be it eating non-vegetarian food like pork (my favorite) ----> inter-caste marriage. The range / span is infinite.
US India diplomatic row over Devyani Khobragade escalates
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Anything out of orthodox or not "normal" as per our archaic society is considered such. Be it eating non-vegetarian food like pork (my favorite) ----> inter-caste marriage. The range / span is infinite.
You should know why Indian are bad ? Because of people like us. We began discussing about a lady diplomat from our country insulted, stripped and cavity searched when diplomats of the said country enjoy like kings here.
But we ended up nihilistic self loathing of ourselves. If you all checked history of those countries which ruled and are ruling the world, it was extremely worse than ourselves.
About general human behavior in society, humans were always like that, will remain like this. One should rather find his own way of dealing with society which is beneficial for him in long run. Otherwise, we people may turn into recluses who cannot connect to each other, politicians will find such a society easily exploitable.
Have some pride, have some hope. I prefer keeping hope that things will be turn better.
But we ended up nihilistic self loathing of ourselves. If you all checked history of those countries which ruled and are ruling the world, it was extremely worse than ourselves.
About general human behavior in society, humans were always like that, will remain like this. One should rather find his own way of dealing with society which is beneficial for him in long run. Otherwise, we people may turn into recluses who cannot connect to each other, politicians will find such a society easily exploitable.
Have some pride, have some hope. I prefer keeping hope that things will be turn better.
But a lot of these countries have progressed, we are still stuck in a rut. I fail to see, how I can deal with our society, which is worsening day-by-day. Nothing much has changed. In fact it is getting worse, as people get more money, and influence, and have no whim-or-fancy for the law. We are all ready exploited and expendable by the politicians, nothing new. Our insular and virile begotten nature is taking us no-where.
I have no pride.
sid_donnydarko:
"Diplomats all over the world are treated well by the host nation."
Very right, but not seeing that with US of A. This is not the sole opinion with Indians, check with many other countries. For eg., Brazil recently started tit for tat measures against USA.
"Devyani Khobragade included."
No, Indian Govt. and majority of its' people does not consider so, with enough reasons. Indians haven't fully sold our conscience yet.
"I've said this before and i'll say it again - we set up ourselves for disappointment when we treat our foreigners with extra privileges and that too by hoodwinking our laws in their favour."
Earlier, you said "Diplomats all over the world are treated well by the host nation". India as a decent host goes out of the way to treat other country's diplomats decently. Now, everyone knows diplomats and citizens of USA get a better treatment all over the world, not just in India. They are a powerful country and everyone budges to their power. It does not happen because of our politicians and corrupt; if they are not corrupt they will forced to be corrupt. It happens because a more corrupt powerful country forces itself over weaker ones.
Almost at the same time frame when Devyani case was happening, another scam happened in USA associated with Russian diplomats. Not a small case like that of Devyani's, a real scam involving many Russian diplomats. Without any noise, they were let away. US of A knows where to tread carefully.
"Corruption is prevalent all over the world. But we take things to a whole new level by living in-denial of our shortcomings."
No, whenever possible, corruption is getting exposed here too. That is why you and me are talking about it. You are talking as if corruption does not happen in US of A.
"Our caste-system has more in common with a master-servant relationship."
Master and Slave can be better words to use ? And who were the slave masters ? Remember who all were slaves ? What about words Lords and peasants /commons? Pls. pls... Who taught us these words ? All these existed and still exists in other parts of the world in one form or other. In India, it is far more visible because of it's extreme poverty, huge population, highly different cultures and geographies.
"Our patriarchal society enforces control over women using appeasement all the while keeping them incapable, incompetent and ignorant; yet we love showing up the rest of the world how well we treat our women using distasteful machismo. I can guarantee that such extreme levels of contradiction does not happen in other countries."
Oh, can you stop this 'patriarchy' bullshit. It is getting trashed from where it is originated and is altogether a different subject, not just isolated to India. Proponents of this ideology can never be satisfied. Even people in most affluent countries are fed up with this, that they will start feeling recursions from now.
"Introspection is the only way forward."
Introspect yourselves, look in a mirror. There is a fat chance that you may suddenly discover a hypocrite.
"All of the opinions expressed in this thread, irrespective of your approval, are a step in that direction."
What approval ? Approval from strangers in TE ? Approval from you ? Are these discussions about approval ? Man, you seems to have some strange problems.
The only reason I commented here was that people was talking too hopeless about our country. May be many can gulp that and burp. But I couldn't.
By the way, If you have some 'direction', you already have hope ! That was all I was discussing here earlier. So, best wishes, keep hope.
-----
asingh: "But a lot of these countries have progressed, we are still stuck in a rut."
If we study deeply, we will find that they have progressed at the expense of others. The west ruled India for 500 years, exploited it to the bones. They were not here to teach us progress and decency, but to enslave and exploit us. Those marks will not disappear easily from Indian psych, it will take a lot of time for us.
"I fail to see, how I can deal with our society, which is worsening day-by-day. Nothing much has changed. In fact it is getting worse, as people get more money, and influence, and have no whim-or-fancy for the law. We are all ready exploited and expendable by the politicians, nothing new. Our insular and virile begotten nature is taking us no-where.
I have no pride."
Then, for a beginning, have some pride. To have pride itself is a perquisite for being decent human and there by a decent society. If we Indians kept little bit of self respect and pride, we would have been a far better society. Pride is a virtue every human should have.
Real world is not a teenager's dream. All the symptoms and issues you described is going to stay forever on earth, deal with it. Otherwise, earth will have to turn into heaven which is not at all a possibility.
"Diplomats all over the world are treated well by the host nation."
Very right, but not seeing that with US of A. This is not the sole opinion with Indians, check with many other countries. For eg., Brazil recently started tit for tat measures against USA.
"Devyani Khobragade included."
No, Indian Govt. and majority of its' people does not consider so, with enough reasons. Indians haven't fully sold our conscience yet.
"I've said this before and i'll say it again - we set up ourselves for disappointment when we treat our foreigners with extra privileges and that too by hoodwinking our laws in their favour."
Earlier, you said "Diplomats all over the world are treated well by the host nation". India as a decent host goes out of the way to treat other country's diplomats decently. Now, everyone knows diplomats and citizens of USA get a better treatment all over the world, not just in India. They are a powerful country and everyone budges to their power. It does not happen because of our politicians and corrupt; if they are not corrupt they will forced to be corrupt. It happens because a more corrupt powerful country forces itself over weaker ones.
Almost at the same time frame when Devyani case was happening, another scam happened in USA associated with Russian diplomats. Not a small case like that of Devyani's, a real scam involving many Russian diplomats. Without any noise, they were let away. US of A knows where to tread carefully.
"Corruption is prevalent all over the world. But we take things to a whole new level by living in-denial of our shortcomings."
No, whenever possible, corruption is getting exposed here too. That is why you and me are talking about it. You are talking as if corruption does not happen in US of A.
"Our caste-system has more in common with a master-servant relationship."
Master and Slave can be better words to use ? And who were the slave masters ? Remember who all were slaves ? What about words Lords and peasants /commons? Pls. pls... Who taught us these words ? All these existed and still exists in other parts of the world in one form or other. In India, it is far more visible because of it's extreme poverty, huge population, highly different cultures and geographies.
"Our patriarchal society enforces control over women using appeasement all the while keeping them incapable, incompetent and ignorant; yet we love showing up the rest of the world how well we treat our women using distasteful machismo. I can guarantee that such extreme levels of contradiction does not happen in other countries."
Oh, can you stop this 'patriarchy' bullshit. It is getting trashed from where it is originated and is altogether a different subject, not just isolated to India. Proponents of this ideology can never be satisfied. Even people in most affluent countries are fed up with this, that they will start feeling recursions from now.
"Introspection is the only way forward."
Introspect yourselves, look in a mirror. There is a fat chance that you may suddenly discover a hypocrite.
"All of the opinions expressed in this thread, irrespective of your approval, are a step in that direction."
What approval ? Approval from strangers in TE ? Approval from you ? Are these discussions about approval ? Man, you seems to have some strange problems.
The only reason I commented here was that people was talking too hopeless about our country. May be many can gulp that and burp. But I couldn't.
By the way, If you have some 'direction', you already have hope ! That was all I was discussing here earlier. So, best wishes, keep hope.
-----
asingh: "But a lot of these countries have progressed, we are still stuck in a rut."
If we study deeply, we will find that they have progressed at the expense of others. The west ruled India for 500 years, exploited it to the bones. They were not here to teach us progress and decency, but to enslave and exploit us. Those marks will not disappear easily from Indian psych, it will take a lot of time for us.
"I fail to see, how I can deal with our society, which is worsening day-by-day. Nothing much has changed. In fact it is getting worse, as people get more money, and influence, and have no whim-or-fancy for the law. We are all ready exploited and expendable by the politicians, nothing new. Our insular and virile begotten nature is taking us no-where.
I have no pride."
Then, for a beginning, have some pride. To have pride itself is a perquisite for being decent human and there by a decent society. If we Indians kept little bit of self respect and pride, we would have been a far better society. Pride is a virtue every human should have.
Real world is not a teenager's dream. All the symptoms and issues you described is going to stay forever on earth, deal with it. Otherwise, earth will have to turn into heaven which is not at all a possibility.
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So who should we have learnt from..? Was our culture and teachings not enough, to prevent us from what we have become..? Yes, we were exploited for commerce, business, and independence, but we still retained our ideology and mindset. Yes, it is our psyche which is warped.
Self respect and pride are innately different, I feel that. How will having pride, negate the deltas of our existence and societal behavioral mechanisms..? What should I be proud of. I have nationalism, but I shun the black marks of our society and its functionary aspects.
I am dealing with it. And am, no teenager, too..!
sid_donnydarko: "...The fault lies with both sides, not any one. Either we buck up by dealing firmly (yet respectfully) with the US. Or they should follow our lead. What happened in the Devyani Khobragade case is that we met halfway through with the USG all the while under the impression of a win-win situation. But in reality it wasn't and has temporarily soured relations...."
That is great to hear. Well, we have to start somewhere. We can't just sit and wait for ever for the right tragedy to happen. Whatever happened earlier (troubling Indian dignitaries like PP Abdul Kalam, ministerial officers, even Defense Minister got undressed there, film stars, etc...) was enough to tilt the balance. Devyani was a women rights activist so it was right to take action from there.
"UK, AU, NZ rubbish Americans. Well good for them. But, pls. compare oranges with oranges. Compare India and cases like these with countries of same status as of us second or third world. Brazil can be a remote example. Poverty makes a huge difference in national policies and behaviors.
"Utter rubbish. You mean to tell me the USG will corrupt pure-hearted politicians of the host-nation?"
Have have found how the usage 'banana republic' originated. That phrase is not a silly joke. Search and thou shall find.
"Do you live for conspiracy theories? First of all, how is USA more corrupt ...."
No, am not a believer of conspiracy theories. But if calculated in real life, Bernie Madoff, former non-executive chairman of the NASDAQ stock market, can single handedly beat all Indian corrupt into a thin gel (convert $17 billion into INR). Leave alone all other corporate and other scamsters associated with him. What about the infamous Enron globalized scam ? What about military kickback scams ? Lot more which I need not say here.
How about USA legalized corruption by legal lobbying ? Good number of high level officers and politicians are retired, ex-employees of big corporations. They don't need scams, hey are living scams.
Only after the next awaited depression, will the results of educational loan bust, will be declared into public.
"The Russian diplomatic incident clearly exposes US double standards."
Oh, so they have double standards...
"But again their double standards are no excuse ..."for our servile nature. American diplomatic double-standards is no excuse for us to :
May be you can afford to be hopeless. But, at the same time millions of unfortunate, hapless poor citizens of India keeps hope that their country is worth living and keeps hope for a better tomorrow and that humans will evolve for better. They have no other options than finding a better living. I am one of them.
No, am not in self denial at all. I acknowledge the problems, understands it is a part of humanity not just a problem with Indians. I also know that India is having a proud heritage, have contributed a lot to humanity, that there is both good and bad part, and as a country India will only progress.
That is great to hear. Well, we have to start somewhere. We can't just sit and wait for ever for the right tragedy to happen. Whatever happened earlier (troubling Indian dignitaries like PP Abdul Kalam, ministerial officers, even Defense Minister got undressed there, film stars, etc...) was enough to tilt the balance. Devyani was a women rights activist so it was right to take action from there.
"UK, AU, NZ rubbish Americans. Well good for them. But, pls. compare oranges with oranges. Compare India and cases like these with countries of same status as of us second or third world. Brazil can be a remote example. Poverty makes a huge difference in national policies and behaviors.
"Utter rubbish. You mean to tell me the USG will corrupt pure-hearted politicians of the host-nation?"
Have have found how the usage 'banana republic' originated. That phrase is not a silly joke. Search and thou shall find.
"Do you live for conspiracy theories? First of all, how is USA more corrupt ...."
No, am not a believer of conspiracy theories. But if calculated in real life, Bernie Madoff, former non-executive chairman of the NASDAQ stock market, can single handedly beat all Indian corrupt into a thin gel (convert $17 billion into INR). Leave alone all other corporate and other scamsters associated with him. What about the infamous Enron globalized scam ? What about military kickback scams ? Lot more which I need not say here.
How about USA legalized corruption by legal lobbying ? Good number of high level officers and politicians are retired, ex-employees of big corporations. They don't need scams, hey are living scams.
Only after the next awaited depression, will the results of educational loan bust, will be declared into public.
"The Russian diplomatic incident clearly exposes US double standards."
Oh, so they have double standards...
"But again their double standards are no excuse ..."for our servile nature. American diplomatic double-standards is no excuse for us to :
- misrepresent/distort facts: - Admit that every country in the world does this, not just India. We are an extremely poor country which just started emerging from ashes in last few decades. Give due time and it will excel better than others.
- treat Ugandan women poorly - Indians world over gets insulted, ill treated and are subjected to racism. No one blinks an eye. One single incidence in India and everyone goes ape shit. These people forgot that PP of Uganda, Idi Amin, ordered the expulsion of his country's Indian and Pakistani minority, giving them 90 days to leave Uganda. Amin said that he had had a dream in which God told him to order the expulsion; this resulted in massive and indescribable suffering to Indians. OK, we should not talk that now. That is not rational, but should not be forgotten. By they way, they themselves admitted that they were prostitutes ? Why it is people from these countries who are majority of drug traffickers ? Earlier, I remember Maharashtra forced many of these guys sitting on road side and injecting drugs out of the country. All these happens with a reason.
- live in-denial of the existence of an underprivileged and poorly treated servant class: This happens everywhere, not just in India. In India rich to poor ratio and difference is high so it is fully visualized.
May be you can afford to be hopeless. But, at the same time millions of unfortunate, hapless poor citizens of India keeps hope that their country is worth living and keeps hope for a better tomorrow and that humans will evolve for better. They have no other options than finding a better living. I am one of them.
No, am not in self denial at all. I acknowledge the problems, understands it is a part of humanity not just a problem with Indians. I also know that India is having a proud heritage, have contributed a lot to humanity, that there is both good and bad part, and as a country India will only progress.
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Mr.J
Skilled
Lobbying is not legalized corruption or bribery.
Each company and political party has to declare the amount spent and received in lobbying, respectively. Else the IRS can take legal action against them. It is no secret that each company or industry wants decisions in their favour. They are in business after all. By not legalizing lobbying in India, we have more corruption as the process of (unofficial) lobbying in India is not transparent.
Get your facts right and without any prejudice.
This paragraph caught my eye. Indians world over gets insulted, are ill-treated and are subjected to racism. Ok, I don't agree with it completely. Partially because the Indians in South Africa or other African countries don't give proper treatments to their black servants, employees or customers while fawning over white people. Secondly, out of millions of Indians, the cases of racism against Indians are very low and are decreasing. My family members and friends have been to Europe or USA and they have rarely if ever have encountered racism. Many Indians (though that is not correct term as they are born and raised out of India) are in influential positions in business and politics.
As for the Indians who are insulted, it doesn't justify our racism against Ugandans or other Africans. An eye for an eye is not an answer.
Lord Nemesis has already posted the reason why Africans are coming to India, and how they are disillusioned after they come here. If you want to stop their influx, OUR govt. has to take actions against INDIAN scamsters who promise bright future to them.
This thread is a wreck.
Each company and political party has to declare the amount spent and received in lobbying, respectively. Else the IRS can take legal action against them. It is no secret that each company or industry wants decisions in their favour. They are in business after all. By not legalizing lobbying in India, we have more corruption as the process of (unofficial) lobbying in India is not transparent.
Get your facts right and without any prejudice.
This paragraph caught my eye. Indians world over gets insulted, are ill-treated and are subjected to racism. Ok, I don't agree with it completely. Partially because the Indians in South Africa or other African countries don't give proper treatments to their black servants, employees or customers while fawning over white people. Secondly, out of millions of Indians, the cases of racism against Indians are very low and are decreasing. My family members and friends have been to Europe or USA and they have rarely if ever have encountered racism. Many Indians (though that is not correct term as they are born and raised out of India) are in influential positions in business and politics.
As for the Indians who are insulted, it doesn't justify our racism against Ugandans or other Africans. An eye for an eye is not an answer.
Lord Nemesis has already posted the reason why Africans are coming to India, and how they are disillusioned after they come here. If you want to stop their influx, OUR govt. has to take actions against INDIAN scamsters who promise bright future to them.
This thread is a wreck.
"As for the Indians who are insulted, it doesn't justify our racism against Ugandans or other Africans. An eye for an eye is not an answer. "
No, I didn't justify racism against racism. I clearly mentioned that is not rational. But it was just to remind those who shed crocodile tears for Africans, to remind them that India is far progressive than they make it out to be.
Whatever the reasons for Africans be here, let them be. But as per this thread majority of Indians here are totally disillusioned, many TE members deeply introspected and found them to be hopeless. I wonder why they don't sit on roadside and inject drugs, but only Africans have this special type of drug induced disillusion.
"It is no secret that each company or industry wants decisions in their favour. They are in business after all. By not legalizing lobbying in India, we have more corruption as the process of (unofficial) lobbying in India is not transparent.
Get your facts right and without any prejudice."
Oh, poor business guys... Each company wants decisions in their favor, they are in business after all. Guess what, I myself and many people may want decisions in our favor. But are you sure those 'wants' are in the interest of society /country ? Even people in other countries have objection about this, not just me or Indians. Prejudices, yes, this is a weird thread indeed.
And for those are too blind to see corruption in US of A, frigging Half of US Nuclear Missile Wing is Implicated In Cheating: http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/01/30/usa-nuclear-cheating-idINL2N0L41IR20140130
India may be slightly better. Considering, nuclear mishandling by USA have global implications...
No, I didn't justify racism against racism. I clearly mentioned that is not rational. But it was just to remind those who shed crocodile tears for Africans, to remind them that India is far progressive than they make it out to be.
Whatever the reasons for Africans be here, let them be. But as per this thread majority of Indians here are totally disillusioned, many TE members deeply introspected and found them to be hopeless. I wonder why they don't sit on roadside and inject drugs, but only Africans have this special type of drug induced disillusion.
"It is no secret that each company or industry wants decisions in their favour. They are in business after all. By not legalizing lobbying in India, we have more corruption as the process of (unofficial) lobbying in India is not transparent.
Get your facts right and without any prejudice."
Oh, poor business guys... Each company wants decisions in their favor, they are in business after all. Guess what, I myself and many people may want decisions in our favor. But are you sure those 'wants' are in the interest of society /country ? Even people in other countries have objection about this, not just me or Indians. Prejudices, yes, this is a weird thread indeed.
And for those are too blind to see corruption in US of A, frigging Half of US Nuclear Missile Wing is Implicated In Cheating: http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/01/30/usa-nuclear-cheating-idINL2N0L41IR20140130
India may be slightly better. Considering, nuclear mishandling by USA have global implications...
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Do you know that the Devayani investigation was running for 6 months before she was finally arrested? US asked for proper investigation into the issue from India which our country did not bother with. Instead it looked like Devayani was using her influence in the govt to persecute the domestic help and her family. US thought that they had the necessary evidence against her when they decided to make the arrest. She was arrested by the Police and there was nothing illegitimate about the search on her as it was by the book. The only question in contest was her immunity status and she did not have full immunity at the time when the arrest decision was taken. But it looks like she had already anticipated what was coming and used her influence to get immunity which she got after she was arrested. So even though she was produced in court and charged, she was let go because of immunity, but asked to leave the country. If anything, she was treated in more than fair manner.
Now compare that what happened in India. A minister goes to Khirki extension on peoples call and he asks a police officer to come and raid foreigners homes without any evidence or warrant. What evidence did these people have against these women for the police to be able to get a search warrant?
When the officer refuses to indulge the minister, he abuses the officer and he calls his own goons and illegally barges into homes of innocent foreigners and drags them out, misbehaves with them and forcefully takes them for tests. Even though the test results came out negative, neither the minister nor the people supporting him want to talk about it. Even though they are innocent and unnecessarily harassed, no one gives a damn, they still spread the lie that they are drug addicts or prostitutes. If it was not for the police officer being present, there is no telling what this minister and his goons might even have resorted to. Might even have been gang raped or murdered as is common with kangaroo courts or mob justice in India.
A business women from this area has even said that the people in the area charge foreigners very high rent and even take massive amounts in advance and still are constantly harassing them without reason and frequently in the habit of registering bogus complaints against them (may be it is to get rid of them without having to return the advance and repeat it with someone else).
But it doesn't matter, even the medical reports coming out negative doesn't matter, since its hard to justify how they were treated. Its much easier for the Indian ego to close ones eyes and ears and pretend that they were guilty of some big crime and that the illegal and immoral mob action against them is correct.
So basically, on one side, you have an influential diplomat who was mistreating and overworking her Indian domestic help and when she tried to get away and asked for her due compensation, threatened her and her family. She is arrested for various offenses in US and subjected to a search, but it is considered an insult to her and India at large. On the other hand, its perfectly fine for a minister to barge into houses of innocent foreign women and drag them out and harass them and subject them to medical tests and even though the tests came out negative, they are still labeled as prostitutes and drug addicts and not even an apology is asked from them. Such arrogance, disrespect towards the women and even the law is applauded by the people. Khap panchayat style kangaroo courts and mob justice without even bothering to investigate is perfectly fine with us.
You think any decent human being ought to be proud or ashamed of such a country and its people? How egoistic, arrogant and delusional has one to be to feel proud. I for one don't find any damn reason to feel proud unlike many of the people who can easily ignore the shame that our country has become and just revel in some false sense of glory.
Regarding Devyani case, in earlier posts I have clearly said if she did crime she should be punished (and for those who cry patriarchy this lady was a women rights activist who allegedly committed crime against another Indian women). But considering she is working as a diplomat in a foreign country USA should have shown some decency which is rightly expected considering the leverage their diplomats gets in India (at least she was not doing drug business to undergo cavity search). Six months before this issue, Devyani tried to raise a missing person complain about her missing servant which was rejected by the so law respecting police officers there. No one should take others for granted.
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For those who shed crocodile tears for Innocent africans:
South African woman held with party drug worth Rs 13 crore at Delhi airport
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ore-at-Delhi-airport/articleshow/29712916.cms
South African held with heroin worth Rs.35 lakh
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...oin-worth-Rs-35-lakh/articleshow/29622784.cms
African surrenders, confesses to sex racket involvement:
http://www.dailypioneer.com/todays-...ders-confesses-to-sex-racket-involvement.html
7 Africans caught without documents in Chhatarpur.
Mehrauli police carried out the early morning raid on Wednesday after a Tanzanian woman informed them she was being forced into prostitution by her Nigerian friend who lives in Chhatarpur.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiat..._chhatarpur-foreign-nationals-valid-documents
That is all in a short span of time. Remember, this is in India not Nigeria.
-----
And the kind of Africans I respect ? Those who are ready to call a spade a spade:
"
Few African women accept that drugs and prostitution were a problem in the area. "I don't think Indians are racist. Some African men and women also misbehave. They should not cross the line. I have many Indian friends in Uganda. Women engaging in prostitution should not get involved with Indian men because there is a taboo here," said a Ugandan woman who is doing her diploma in information technology.
Many residents have organised a protest demanding justice for Law Minister who has been summoned by DCW and a case registered by Ugandan woman. Those who were a part of protests said, "Our behen betis cannot step out of the homes because of these people. Why are people protesting against Bharti? He is the one who came to our rescue."
Talat Mehmood, a member of RWA said, "The entire allegation against Bharti is baseless. He is being punished for listening to people. For two years we have been calling police and politicians but no one paid heed. We are apolitical and are worried about Bharti."
http://www.newsx.com/national/natio...rostitutes-we-are-refugees-says-african-women
-----
Khirki residents' anger forcing Africans out of area:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...Africans-out-of-area/articleshow/29712670.cms
See, you all complains politicians and police not listening to compaints. Now, they take action and you don't like it. (By the way am not an AAP supporter).
Nigerians rioting and blocking National Highway in Goa... Imagine Indians doing this in USA /west and what happens.
I heard that recently UAE stopped issuing work Visa to Bangladeshis because they overstay and do lot of criminal activities. That is how countries control crime.
India is extremely easy with these guys. Innocent ! Many people here talks as if they are loyal towards Nigeria than India ! May be after a deep introspection they will find that they are sitting in glass houses and throwing stones.
-----
For those who shed crocodile tears for Innocent africans:
South African woman held with party drug worth Rs 13 crore at Delhi airport
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ore-at-Delhi-airport/articleshow/29712916.cms
South African held with heroin worth Rs.35 lakh
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...oin-worth-Rs-35-lakh/articleshow/29622784.cms
African surrenders, confesses to sex racket involvement:
http://www.dailypioneer.com/todays-...ders-confesses-to-sex-racket-involvement.html
7 Africans caught without documents in Chhatarpur.
Mehrauli police carried out the early morning raid on Wednesday after a Tanzanian woman informed them she was being forced into prostitution by her Nigerian friend who lives in Chhatarpur.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiat..._chhatarpur-foreign-nationals-valid-documents
That is all in a short span of time. Remember, this is in India not Nigeria.
-----
And the kind of Africans I respect ? Those who are ready to call a spade a spade:
"
Few African women accept that drugs and prostitution were a problem in the area. "I don't think Indians are racist. Some African men and women also misbehave. They should not cross the line. I have many Indian friends in Uganda. Women engaging in prostitution should not get involved with Indian men because there is a taboo here," said a Ugandan woman who is doing her diploma in information technology.
Many residents have organised a protest demanding justice for Law Minister who has been summoned by DCW and a case registered by Ugandan woman. Those who were a part of protests said, "Our behen betis cannot step out of the homes because of these people. Why are people protesting against Bharti? He is the one who came to our rescue."
Talat Mehmood, a member of RWA said, "The entire allegation against Bharti is baseless. He is being punished for listening to people. For two years we have been calling police and politicians but no one paid heed. We are apolitical and are worried about Bharti."
http://www.newsx.com/national/natio...rostitutes-we-are-refugees-says-african-women
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Khirki residents' anger forcing Africans out of area:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...Africans-out-of-area/articleshow/29712670.cms
See, you all complains politicians and police not listening to compaints. Now, they take action and you don't like it. (By the way am not an AAP supporter).
Nigerians rioting and blocking National Highway in Goa... Imagine Indians doing this in USA /west and what happens.
I heard that recently UAE stopped issuing work Visa to Bangladeshis because they overstay and do lot of criminal activities. That is how countries control crime.
India is extremely easy with these guys. Innocent ! Many people here talks as if they are loyal towards Nigeria than India ! May be after a deep introspection they will find that they are sitting in glass houses and throwing stones.
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These liberals don't know the ground reality and get their panties in a twist over trivial issues
Do you realize that many of these people are forced into drug trade and prostitution by Indian agents who run such operations? Interestingly, it seems that Indians have mastered the art of running multi national rackets from simple fraudulous education rackets to drugs and prostitution.
I am not saying that every African is a victim, but a lot of them are. Many of them have fake papers for the same reason as many poor Indians who get sent the Gulf or other places and victimized have fake papers. Just like agents here promise poor Indians with hopes of jobs and sell them off as bonded labour in other parts of the world like the Gulf, Indian agents also go to Africa and bring poor Africans here and force them into drug trade and prostitution. Every time, the Africans or Indians in the bottom rungs of such rackets get caught, but the master minds running them slip away. Even if they are caught, they have a lot influence behind them.
If an Indian girl gets sent to the gulf on fake papers and forced into prostitution there, what she may be doing many still be wrong, but would you see her just as a criminal or as a victim as well? Its the same with many of these Africans. They are brought here by Indian agents with promises of better education or jobs and then forced into these things. Calling them criminals without catching the master minds is almost like booking a gang rape victim for adultery or prostitution.
In any, in this particular case, what exactly is the evidence based on which on which these women were accused and tested? Surely the locals must have provided some evidence of wrong doing to point fingers at particular people or was it a witch hunt against all blacks in the areas? How is the police supposed to take action without evidence. These women were tested forcefully and still the tests came out negative. So, we can assume that they were innocent and were harassed without reason. Nobody even apologized after all that.
sid_donnydarko: on Banana Republic...
Oh, how craftly you avoided intended and documented facts from the very same link you posted here. The reason I used that term was to purposefully show how USA or businessmen corrupt politicians from weak countries which you said never happens. And the very term Banana Republic refers directly to USA's interactions with south American countries. I know that you know what we both are talking about
So, from subtitle from the very same link you posted here:
The original banana republic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic#The_original_banana_republic
"...despite the UFC monopoly, in 1924, the Vaccaro Brothers established the Standard Fruit Company (Dole Food Company) to export Honduran bananas to the port of New Orleans in the Gulf of Mexico coast of the U.S. The fruit exporters were able to keep U.S. prices so low because the banana companies, through their manipulation of the producing countries' national land use laws, were able to cheaply buy large tracts of prime agricultural land for banana plantations in the countries of the Caribbean Basin, the Central American isthmus, and the tropical South American countries—and, having rendered the native peoples landless through a policy of legalistic dispossession, were therefore able to employ them as low-wage workers.[8] Moreover, by the late 19th century, three American multinational corporations — the United Fruit Company, the Standard Fruit Company, and the Cuyamel Fruit Company — dominated the cultivation, harvesting, and exportation of bananas, and controlled the road, rail, and port infrastructure of Honduras..."
As for Enron scandal, the role of USA politicians are well known when courts punished them. And how well their politicians canvased Indians for Enron were well discussed out in all news papers or books to the lowest level. Whom and what are you trying to hide ? Strange, real strange.
USA Govt. fully supports actions of their MNCs all over the world. Whatever those MNCs are doing is fully transparent and are mostly in control of their Govt. It is now that NSA is a scandal, earlier they used to do industrial espionage against Europeans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial_espionage). There is nothing to discuss and waste time on this, it is fully evident like day light.
"...Strange. Very Strange. You ask me to stop comparing apples with oranges and then you yourself do the same? Madoff's ponzi scheme, the Enron scam and many others alike have very little effect on the mindset of America's middle-class population..."
Hahaha... Let us hope even common Americans does not hear your ideas... And also pls. explain the 99% movement. Like 'banana republic', 'water gate' is also is a common usage.
"...What exactly do you mean? What i meant to say earlier is that Russian Diplomatic Incident is that exposes US double standards when it comes to maintaining diplomatic relations. Whether they practise the same double standards in other matters remains to be seen..."
Man, we have already seen a lot. For many of us with common sense, so much is enough, we don't want to see more.
"...You object to "business guys" getting rich at the expense of society? In reality, the truth about such business guys is that they follow our example. Our government does nothing to improve and vigilantly enforce minimum wages and your concern is that "business guys" get rich at the expense of society. What about employment opportunities and personal growth? Or are you so worried, like Arun Jaitely, that India will become a country of sales boys and sales girls? Do you know that the majority of successful people in the this world till date started their career in sales?..."
I don't object to "business guys" getting rich, rather I am happy with that. But I have serious concerns about anyone exploiting my country by unlawful means, human rights violations, etc. thereby negatively effecting our society and its' morales. We were discussing about legalized lobbying valid in USA and considered illogical by many other countries those objects to it.
"...Granted that some wealthy Americans, government officials included, are corrupt. But this has taken place in a developed country. Such scams question their credibility but cannot become an excuse to justify that we can plan scams in our country..."
OMG, who is trying to justify and planning scams in our country since rich people in developed countries does it ? My only intention was only to convey that even in the most developed of the countries, the countries which stands as moral beacon for many here, are also corrupt; their politicians and business are also corrupt. Was conveying that it is a part of human nature and the whole world needs to progress beyond that. India being a poor country with huge population with a wide geography, it is more evident and difficult to control. And according to you rich and developed countries can be corrupt, but poor weak Indians cannot be.
The biggest difference with Indians and people in some developed countries is that with given faults and problems, their citizens are loyal to their country. Indians, given a chance will sell even their souls. They are so weak, hopeless and selfish. Never finding a reason to be proud. That slavery bound nihilistic, self blaming psych ingrained into them during the 'Raj' is still in force.
In fact, I would like to refrain from further posting. Many of your postings are self contradictory and meaningless. No meaning in trying to convince those who purposefully try to keep a blind eye on realities for their own probable petty self interests.
---------------
Lord Nemesis:
All over the world, Africans are infamous for their connections in drug dealings. No, Indians didn't teach them that. If you say otherwise, even Africans will disagree with it, some gangs does it with serious zeal.
Even otherwise, if Indians are behind this, you are admitting that Indians are using Africans for ill purposes. So to start taking action against it is good - stop prostitution and drug dealings by Africans and that is good for both Africans and Indians. Why you are against it ? At least, that will save some future African victims from this trade when the kingpins find that Africans are easy targets by police and are not risk worthy mules in the trade ?
"How is the police supposed to take action without evidence."
In the links above, police took actions with evidence. By the way, prostitution cannot be proved by drug test. There ladies would have prostituted but may not have used drugs recently. Or may be they are really victims of prejudices by people and minister - the wrong persons in trouble for problems created by miscreants (in such a case they deserve justice and compensation, we all know that no sane headed Indian will stand against it). But that doesn't negate scores of real cases in that area and those actual culprits caught.
And for those Indian ladies in Gulf. I am here in ME now. Many ladies pay lakhs to agents in India to reach here and do prostitution /bar dancing. Once the money is recovered and decent profit is made, they go back home. In Dubai and Abu Dhabi you will find legal bars from low to affluent performing this (no, prostitution is not legal, dancing in bars are). Once caught by authorities they will cry 'victim'. This is pretty normal, I have visited such places here, seen such persons. Reminds me a recent case where Indians NGOs tried to 'save' some ladies, these ladies asking them "Will you feed us if we are back in India?". So, it is a mixed situation here.
Laws here are strict, if maids get exploited, they get full legal recourse (Yes, this is a serious issue, many gets exploited, but it is being sternly dealt with now). OK, corruption happens here too, but not in the scale you may expect.
My whole point is if Africans or anyone for that matter are performing antisocial activities, that needs to be dealt with as per expectations of Indian people and law of court. Blaming racism and turning a blind eye, or exploiting it for political reasons will not help.
Oh, how craftly you avoided intended and documented facts from the very same link you posted here. The reason I used that term was to purposefully show how USA or businessmen corrupt politicians from weak countries which you said never happens. And the very term Banana Republic refers directly to USA's interactions with south American countries. I know that you know what we both are talking about
So, from subtitle from the very same link you posted here:The original banana republic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic#The_original_banana_republic
"...despite the UFC monopoly, in 1924, the Vaccaro Brothers established the Standard Fruit Company (Dole Food Company) to export Honduran bananas to the port of New Orleans in the Gulf of Mexico coast of the U.S. The fruit exporters were able to keep U.S. prices so low because the banana companies, through their manipulation of the producing countries' national land use laws, were able to cheaply buy large tracts of prime agricultural land for banana plantations in the countries of the Caribbean Basin, the Central American isthmus, and the tropical South American countries—and, having rendered the native peoples landless through a policy of legalistic dispossession, were therefore able to employ them as low-wage workers.[8] Moreover, by the late 19th century, three American multinational corporations — the United Fruit Company, the Standard Fruit Company, and the Cuyamel Fruit Company — dominated the cultivation, harvesting, and exportation of bananas, and controlled the road, rail, and port infrastructure of Honduras..."
As for Enron scandal, the role of USA politicians are well known when courts punished them. And how well their politicians canvased Indians for Enron were well discussed out in all news papers or books to the lowest level. Whom and what are you trying to hide ? Strange, real strange.
USA Govt. fully supports actions of their MNCs all over the world. Whatever those MNCs are doing is fully transparent and are mostly in control of their Govt. It is now that NSA is a scandal, earlier they used to do industrial espionage against Europeans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial_espionage). There is nothing to discuss and waste time on this, it is fully evident like day light.
"...Strange. Very Strange. You ask me to stop comparing apples with oranges and then you yourself do the same? Madoff's ponzi scheme, the Enron scam and many others alike have very little effect on the mindset of America's middle-class population..."
Hahaha... Let us hope even common Americans does not hear your ideas... And also pls. explain the 99% movement. Like 'banana republic', 'water gate' is also is a common usage.
"...What exactly do you mean? What i meant to say earlier is that Russian Diplomatic Incident is that exposes US double standards when it comes to maintaining diplomatic relations. Whether they practise the same double standards in other matters remains to be seen..."
Man, we have already seen a lot. For many of us with common sense, so much is enough, we don't want to see more.
"...You object to "business guys" getting rich at the expense of society? In reality, the truth about such business guys is that they follow our example. Our government does nothing to improve and vigilantly enforce minimum wages and your concern is that "business guys" get rich at the expense of society. What about employment opportunities and personal growth? Or are you so worried, like Arun Jaitely, that India will become a country of sales boys and sales girls? Do you know that the majority of successful people in the this world till date started their career in sales?..."
I don't object to "business guys" getting rich, rather I am happy with that. But I have serious concerns about anyone exploiting my country by unlawful means, human rights violations, etc. thereby negatively effecting our society and its' morales. We were discussing about legalized lobbying valid in USA and considered illogical by many other countries those objects to it.
"...Granted that some wealthy Americans, government officials included, are corrupt. But this has taken place in a developed country. Such scams question their credibility but cannot become an excuse to justify that we can plan scams in our country..."
OMG, who is trying to justify and planning scams in our country since rich people in developed countries does it ? My only intention was only to convey that even in the most developed of the countries, the countries which stands as moral beacon for many here, are also corrupt; their politicians and business are also corrupt. Was conveying that it is a part of human nature and the whole world needs to progress beyond that. India being a poor country with huge population with a wide geography, it is more evident and difficult to control. And according to you rich and developed countries can be corrupt, but poor weak Indians cannot be.
The biggest difference with Indians and people in some developed countries is that with given faults and problems, their citizens are loyal to their country. Indians, given a chance will sell even their souls. They are so weak, hopeless and selfish. Never finding a reason to be proud. That slavery bound nihilistic, self blaming psych ingrained into them during the 'Raj' is still in force.
In fact, I would like to refrain from further posting. Many of your postings are self contradictory and meaningless. No meaning in trying to convince those who purposefully try to keep a blind eye on realities for their own probable petty self interests.
---------------
Lord Nemesis:
All over the world, Africans are infamous for their connections in drug dealings. No, Indians didn't teach them that. If you say otherwise, even Africans will disagree with it, some gangs does it with serious zeal.
Even otherwise, if Indians are behind this, you are admitting that Indians are using Africans for ill purposes. So to start taking action against it is good - stop prostitution and drug dealings by Africans and that is good for both Africans and Indians. Why you are against it ? At least, that will save some future African victims from this trade when the kingpins find that Africans are easy targets by police and are not risk worthy mules in the trade ?
"How is the police supposed to take action without evidence."
In the links above, police took actions with evidence. By the way, prostitution cannot be proved by drug test. There ladies would have prostituted but may not have used drugs recently. Or may be they are really victims of prejudices by people and minister - the wrong persons in trouble for problems created by miscreants (in such a case they deserve justice and compensation, we all know that no sane headed Indian will stand against it). But that doesn't negate scores of real cases in that area and those actual culprits caught.
And for those Indian ladies in Gulf. I am here in ME now. Many ladies pay lakhs to agents in India to reach here and do prostitution /bar dancing. Once the money is recovered and decent profit is made, they go back home. In Dubai and Abu Dhabi you will find legal bars from low to affluent performing this (no, prostitution is not legal, dancing in bars are). Once caught by authorities they will cry 'victim'. This is pretty normal, I have visited such places here, seen such persons. Reminds me a recent case where Indians NGOs tried to 'save' some ladies, these ladies asking them "Will you feed us if we are back in India?". So, it is a mixed situation here.
Laws here are strict, if maids get exploited, they get full legal recourse (Yes, this is a serious issue, many gets exploited, but it is being sternly dealt with now). OK, corruption happens here too, but not in the scale you may expect.
My whole point is if Africans or anyone for that matter are performing antisocial activities, that needs to be dealt with as per expectations of Indian people and law of court. Blaming racism and turning a blind eye, or exploiting it for political reasons will not help.
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For those who found India not worth their 'pride', just wanted to leave it here, as this came up in today's news:
Corruption across EU 'breathtaking' - EU Commission:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387
EU citizens were asked: Are you personally affected by corruption in daily life ?: In some EU states, 60-69% responded 'Yes'.
The most ironic part I found: In Luxemburg only 10-19% citizens found they were effected by corruption.
"...The commission's estimate that corruption is costing the EU economy about 120bn euros - the size of the EU's annual budget - could well be a conservative one. Other experts believe the real figure is probably higher....
Corruption across EU 'breathtaking' - EU Commission:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387
EU citizens were asked: Are you personally affected by corruption in daily life ?: In some EU states, 60-69% responded 'Yes'.
The most ironic part I found: In Luxemburg only 10-19% citizens found they were effected by corruption.
"...The commission's estimate that corruption is costing the EU economy about 120bn euros - the size of the EU's annual budget - could well be a conservative one. Other experts believe the real figure is probably higher....
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