US India diplomatic row over Devyani Khobragade escalates
- Thread starter mk76
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Diplomacy is very complicated and can save a lot of lives and conflict but can also make a situation far worse... These knee jerk reactions by govt is not advisable in my opinion. We are so outraged at a female diplomat being strip searched whereas in Delhi ministers raiding as if its his private army and doing the same to foreigners without female officers and demanding he be entertained without investigation, FIR and proof.
Keyboard warriors fighting with their mighty back-lit keyboards. I wont be arguing or trying to counter anyone as I see no point in a fruitless discussion which just leads to no where.
People suggesting tit for tat reactions make me laugh as their idiocy. You do realize we live in a global economy with every country dependent on each other. These ultra nationalist statements of people in social media like news forums, tech forums, fb or twitter just makes me shudder at how ignorant most people are of reality. A nation cannot survive without global economy supporting policies. Don't tell me we can build factories and produce our own and be self sufficient. Who are you kidding. We are building factories and developing but not to just support ourselves, its for the world. Look at North Korea if you want to see an isolated economy or Cambodia during Khymer Rouge.
The Indian diplomat may or may not be guilty. But making pre judgement and passing keyboard judgement is just fueling more hatred.
Keyboard warriors fighting with their mighty back-lit keyboards. I wont be arguing or trying to counter anyone as I see no point in a fruitless discussion which just leads to no where.
People suggesting tit for tat reactions make me laugh as their idiocy. You do realize we live in a global economy with every country dependent on each other. These ultra nationalist statements of people in social media like news forums, tech forums, fb or twitter just makes me shudder at how ignorant most people are of reality. A nation cannot survive without global economy supporting policies. Don't tell me we can build factories and produce our own and be self sufficient. Who are you kidding. We are building factories and developing but not to just support ourselves, its for the world. Look at North Korea if you want to see an isolated economy or Cambodia during Khymer Rouge.
The Indian diplomat may or may not be guilty. But making pre judgement and passing keyboard judgement is just fueling more hatred.
TheIndian
Skilled
Tell me again why exactly are you posting here "Keyboard warrior" since you won't be arguing.
Another spineless wimp who probably has not stood for a single cause in his entire life, nor has any self respect. Going global does not mean pulling your own pants down and bending over. Where you take an argument is hilarious, comparing this to North Korea, frankly I wonder WHAT NK has done to be isolated, do you have any idea Mr. Keyboard warrior?
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TheIndian
Skilled
Here comes another one. The rest of the world goes on its merry way a double tit for tat, and keeps turning around business as usual, and then it comes to us - bring on the cowardice by the bucket load. Perfect MG chella who's only contribution was to be in the right place at the right time in history. Don't worry no one ever got ostracized for standing up for themselves. Care to name any country where that happened even in the least bit ?
I on the other hand could name you 100s of incidents which led to further trouble just cause it was dealt with "diplomatically"
TheIndian
Skilled
Someone is living in total Lala land.
Please bring out the coffee someone, and make it strong.
TheIndian
Skilled
Stronger coffee please, the last batch was not nowhere near enough. Thank you !!
what?? where did we penalize Uganda for it???
& what unintelligent, tit-for-tat reactions did we do? all those actions were based on restoring reciprocity which is the cornerstone of diplomatic relations. all those facilities withdrawn were above & beyond what Indian diplomats receive in US; or for that matter, what any other countries' diplomats receive here.
we finally woke up & hopefully those privileges wont be restored,
TheIndian
Skilled
Lol - Mr. Advocate of Diplomacy you should be knowing diplomacy is based on reciprocity. You will get what you give out.
The traffic barricades are a shame and an insult to any Indian and you want to keep them? Forget the coffee Get a spine.
And What exactly is your Basis for calling Mr. Somnath a coward ? or is it just one of your lala land labels ?
TheIndian
Skilled
What is wrong with tax raids if an illegal activity is going on ? Plenty of that happening in the american embassy that we turned a blind eye to. Diplomat wives as teachers ? Do they have a work visa here ?
Like I said reciprocity, you will get only what you allow our embassy. NOTHING MORE.
Barricades hmmmm remind me again, why exactly are those barricades there? And outside Taj and outside oberoi on public property and outside all those ministers houses? Do you know why they are there? Find out if you have any spine in you.
Oh btw do they have barricades outside the Indian Embassy in US ? No? Damn, what a shame, and why do they not have it.
Stop living in UTOPIA you will not be able to back up even one of your arguments if it comes to a debate.
As for Ugandan women, From what I have read, I haven't seen a single reason why they are here in India at all? What the hell are they doing here ? Probably drugs and other illegal activities. We all know (well most of us do, if you don't, all the more reason to wake up) the police's "affiliations" with most things illegal, and we also know their panache for hafta and sticking to rules, and how they never raid a place without a warrant .... oh our so law abiding police force. The only time they follow the strict rule of the law is when they want to avoid arresting a politician or a "patron" (affiliate), and quote supreme court rules about arresting women, yeah right, like the supreme court said do not stop women committing illegal acts after sun down.
As a friend of my mine said, You can wake up a sleeping man, but you cannot wake up a man who is laying down with his eyes closed.
Out country has gone to the crapper and we stand by and watch and talk and talk (yes we are a great nation of talkers), and when someone does something about it, all we can do is more talk. How many of us here have actually done anything at all to make even the smallest of difference to the general public. Most (almost all turn away) "jaaney do, not my problem"
COFFEE PLEASE we have a sleeper here.
PS. I couldn't find any video anywhere
letmein
Skilled
Wow. I haven't been participating in this argument, but this is the pits.
avi
Skilled
Please tell me this is a sarcasm.
^^ No, that is not sarcasm. It is just his racist mind speaking (which I am beginning to believe is quite typical and natural for many of our countrymen).
Some time back, there were documentaries/investigations screened on TV (Telugu channels like TV9) regarding how and why these African people end up here.
Some of these people come here on their own to setup businesses and build a better future for themselves and they make a honest living.
But in many cases, Indian education/career brokers (most of them are essentially fraudsters collaborating with private educational institutions and trying to make easy money of these people) go to African areas like Nigeria (as they are easy targets) and entice the people there with quality education for cheap and better living in India and bring them here. Often these people are so poor that they sell everything they have to get themselves or their children to India in hopes of a better living conditions. Once they come here, they realize that the best thing that could happen to them is that they are enrolled into some diploma course with dubious reputation and absolute no future prospects and that is only a lucky few. Many of the others realize that there isn't even a seat open for them and that the brokers and the institution have just taken away their of their life's savings for nothing. They are left to fend for themselves here. In the worst case, the brokers themselves are affiliated with criminal rackets and once these people are here, they are threatened and forced into drug trade and prostitution.
Many such duped African people are present in Hyderabad and Bangalore as well. Some of them even approach the police, but they are either ignored and driven away or even when a police officer is honest enough to investigate, as one police officer was saying in that show, many of these education rackets that bring them here are are run in conjunction with private educational institutions or other entities which have strong political and criminal backing. So any attempts to investigate are quickly suppressed. Even in the drugs and prostitution rackets, the Africans students forced into them are the scrape goats, the real criminals running the racket never get caught or can get way even if caught. The African students who get caught are easily are easily replaced by others. So in essential many of these people are victims of rackets run by Indians.
The more I hear our countrymen (especially educated ones) speak like TheIndian does or few others in the AAP thread do and reading what readers on TOI comments, the more I am convinced what a racist piss hole of a country India is. There isn't a single aspect that Indians don't use to discriminate on, be it black skinned, white skinned, region, religion, caste, gender, everything is good game.
Our countrymen are so fond of flaunting their so called culture, heritage and traditions and belittling everyone else, but I have never yet seen any evidence of it ever existing or at least that it is any good. Our so called culture, heritage and traditions are murdering unborn girl child, gang raping women on the streets and then having the audacity to pin as influence of western culture, harassment of women on various pretexts like dowry, honor killings etc. Can you imagine any other country where gang rape by 10 men is imposed as a punishment and women defend the culprits involved, in the name of culture and traditions? There isn't a single good thing that was carried onward in our so called culture and traditions. It took a lot of effort for the British to erase another great tradition of ours called sati. It was so vehemently defended. I just wish that the Europeans in their 400 years of rule could have completely erased our pathetic excuse of a culture, heritage and traditions instead of doing that with the native American tribes.
Some time back, there were documentaries/investigations screened on TV (Telugu channels like TV9) regarding how and why these African people end up here.
Some of these people come here on their own to setup businesses and build a better future for themselves and they make a honest living.
But in many cases, Indian education/career brokers (most of them are essentially fraudsters collaborating with private educational institutions and trying to make easy money of these people) go to African areas like Nigeria (as they are easy targets) and entice the people there with quality education for cheap and better living in India and bring them here. Often these people are so poor that they sell everything they have to get themselves or their children to India in hopes of a better living conditions. Once they come here, they realize that the best thing that could happen to them is that they are enrolled into some diploma course with dubious reputation and absolute no future prospects and that is only a lucky few. Many of the others realize that there isn't even a seat open for them and that the brokers and the institution have just taken away their of their life's savings for nothing. They are left to fend for themselves here. In the worst case, the brokers themselves are affiliated with criminal rackets and once these people are here, they are threatened and forced into drug trade and prostitution.
Many such duped African people are present in Hyderabad and Bangalore as well. Some of them even approach the police, but they are either ignored and driven away or even when a police officer is honest enough to investigate, as one police officer was saying in that show, many of these education rackets that bring them here are are run in conjunction with private educational institutions or other entities which have strong political and criminal backing. So any attempts to investigate are quickly suppressed. Even in the drugs and prostitution rackets, the Africans students forced into them are the scrape goats, the real criminals running the racket never get caught or can get way even if caught. The African students who get caught are easily are easily replaced by others. So in essential many of these people are victims of rackets run by Indians.
The more I hear our countrymen (especially educated ones) speak like TheIndian does or few others in the AAP thread do and reading what readers on TOI comments, the more I am convinced what a racist piss hole of a country India is. There isn't a single aspect that Indians don't use to discriminate on, be it black skinned, white skinned, region, religion, caste, gender, everything is good game.
Our countrymen are so fond of flaunting their so called culture, heritage and traditions and belittling everyone else, but I have never yet seen any evidence of it ever existing or at least that it is any good. Our so called culture, heritage and traditions are murdering unborn girl child, gang raping women on the streets and then having the audacity to pin as influence of western culture, harassment of women on various pretexts like dowry, honor killings etc. Can you imagine any other country where gang rape by 10 men is imposed as a punishment and women defend the culprits involved, in the name of culture and traditions? There isn't a single good thing that was carried onward in our so called culture and traditions. It took a lot of effort for the British to erase another great tradition of ours called sati. It was so vehemently defended. I just wish that the Europeans in their 400 years of rule could have completely erased our pathetic excuse of a culture, heritage and traditions instead of doing that with the native American tribes.
Could have rephrased that better. Our country is billion people strong with highly varying geographies and lifestyles. Many other countries we compare with are only fraction of the size of ours. Bad things happen everywhere, they progress, we too will progress. It was never a just world anywhere. No need to be so negative.
^^ I am not being negative, just stating the truth. Sugar coating everything to satisfy our egos is the main reason why our people are like this. Population with moral corruption, bad traditions (that should have ended 1000's of years ago) is all that we have in abundance. Everyday, we we are regressing back to savage animal state rather than progressing. If our culture, heritage and traditions are an excuse for being like this, then we are much better off if such things don't exist at all for the people to cling to.
Here is a small example of our so called rich culture and history.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...way-son-for-marriage/articleshow/29433225.cms
Here is a small example of our so called rich culture and history.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...way-son-for-marriage/articleshow/29433225.cms
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sid_donndarko: "How did a billion people regress into a self-deceptive bunch of scoundrels?"
Well, I am not one and many people I know are not.
I don't know about your interests and inclinations.
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"Lord Nemisis:Here is a small example of our so called rich culture and history...."
Let us not just avoid positive side while focusing on negative news, because there is hope:
(Last paragraph from the link you posted).
"The civil court in Danapur has held four hearings of Sharma's case, a first of its kind, and will decide on February 1 whether the case is admissible or not. Sharma stands alone in his battle - his wife and other close family members not only attended Jasu's wedding but gave their blessings to the couple. Sharma has been unmoved by their pleas, stating, "I want to ignite a national debate on sons going for intercaste marriage by trampling on the sentiments of their parents."
However social scientist Shaibal Gupta believes men like Sharma are a dying breed. Resistance notwithstanding, intercaste marriages are taking place in Bihar and steadily increasing in number. "Bihar is a liberated society. There are contradictions between castes but normally they don't translate into overt antagonism," he states."
Well, I am not one and many people I know are not.
I don't know about your interests and inclinations.
-----
"Lord Nemisis:Here is a small example of our so called rich culture and history...."
Let us not just avoid positive side while focusing on negative news, because there is hope:
(Last paragraph from the link you posted).
"The civil court in Danapur has held four hearings of Sharma's case, a first of its kind, and will decide on February 1 whether the case is admissible or not. Sharma stands alone in his battle - his wife and other close family members not only attended Jasu's wedding but gave their blessings to the couple. Sharma has been unmoved by their pleas, stating, "I want to ignite a national debate on sons going for intercaste marriage by trampling on the sentiments of their parents."
However social scientist Shaibal Gupta believes men like Sharma are a dying breed. Resistance notwithstanding, intercaste marriages are taking place in Bihar and steadily increasing in number. "Bihar is a liberated society. There are contradictions between castes but normally they don't translate into overt antagonism," he states."
I doubt this is ever going to end. India is not a good place to be in if: a female, dark skinned, low caste, and poor. It is shocking to see this behavior so prevalent in our society, irrespective of the persons social standing.
Also another aspect which irks me: Indians love to (just love to) speak 'out of line'. Specially the old retired uncles and aunties. You approach them for anything, and they give a smart-a**** answer. Just yesterday I was paying my society fees, the 65-70 year old uncle tells me "I do not see you around, I live 4 houses down your house". I felt like smashing his teeth in. Seriously. And then he asked me, where I work. I mentioned "a consultancy"; he replies back "oh apnaa hee business hoga" (oh..it must be your own business). Reason being: where I live rents are really really high, and I do not look my age. IE..in my mid 30's, I look like some mid-20's juvenile junkie. So he could not digest, how the hell, I can pay so much rent (full flat)..therefore I must be doing my own business, and not salaried...! By God's grace and blessing (and my parents hard work to educate me), I can manage all this, but why do Indians have to poke their nose in other's business and privacy. People love to morally educate others, and dish out free advisory services on-the-fly. It is so annoying, and adds a further dimension of annoyance and irksome behavior to our society.
I face crap like this all the time, to such an extent that I don't socialize at all. In fact I've made life long friends ONLINE. I face dumb shit at work too! They think I am weird lol, I'd rather be left alone because India is full of big nose digs and vellahs as they say.
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100% true. I just can't explain in great details here but I totally agree with what you said.