invisiblebond
Discoverer
It's not Sir its Saar
What is the reason Indians call others Sir, Madam or Saheb etc?
- Thread starter 6pack
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> They did away with these formalities decades ago.
Just using Sir / Madam alone is doing away tons of formalities in Indian context.
> Two-thirds of wealth in the west is inherited so the same applies.
Inherited by whom should also be checked.
Also will have to wonder why even after being so rich, epitome of development and beacon if international human rights, their homeless rates, suicide rates, drug issues, prisoner numbers, gun violence, etc. so so high.
Just using Sir / Madam alone is doing away tons of formalities in Indian context.
> Two-thirds of wealth in the west is inherited so the same applies.
Inherited by whom should also be checked.
Also will have to wonder why even after being so rich, epitome of development and beacon if international human rights, their homeless rates, suicide rates, drug issues, prisoner numbers, gun violence, etc. so so high.
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Northstar
That is there everywhere but it's the insistence it be used repeatedly in a conversation that is odd. Asian cultures are high context, western are low context. We have fewer words than they do and the meaning changes depending on the context, tone whatever. Whereas for them their words are very specific because they are low context.
Was watching a discussion and the topic went to one of our earlier PM's Shastri. Because the news anchor was not referring each and every single time to Shastri ji or PM Shastri some guy gets uptight about it in the comments section saying it was disrespectful. I didn't think so. To keep referring to a title like that is superficial which is odd in a high-context culture. The way you speak about the person should be enough ie. context and there was never any disrespect I could detect.
When it comes to military ranks I'm fine with titles. It's easier to drop the name after the rank and just refer to the rank. If I needed to point to a specific person then I'd mention the name after the rank. You even see this in the medical profession. The more familiar you become with people even these get dropped after a while.
I find some people insist on the title being used and there are some that don't require it. The idea is to make communications faster and easier as time goes on. We've dropped a lot of extraneous words that used to be common in the past.
Rich and upper middle class. Same everywhere.
> That is there everywhere but it's the insistence it be used repeatedly in a conversation that is odd.
Use only appropriate quantity, just like how you use salt in Indian food
> When it comes to military ranks I'm fine with titles.
Hmmm...
Similarly, everybody find their own cause for appropriate reasons.
That Shastriji case can be considered just like how an Indian senior leader should be respected. Though am not hell bent on on these, if his position and deposition deserve it, why not ? Don't think it is a huge effort for a journalist.
This may come out inappropriate to some, anyways. Now in the peak west neo-liberals fight like nuts about how their pronouns should be addressed and it sometimes comes out as tragically comic public freakout. Have seen Indian corporate MNC staff copy the same and at least some of them announcing their pronouns in first sentance of emails, linkedin, etc. They get tons of agreeable encouraging people too listening. But, people now have problems with using respectful words where it is well deserved.
> Rich and upper middle class. Same everywhere.
Not always necessarily.
Use only appropriate quantity, just like how you use salt in Indian food
> When it comes to military ranks I'm fine with titles.
Hmmm...
Similarly, everybody find their own cause for appropriate reasons.
That Shastriji case can be considered just like how an Indian senior leader should be respected. Though am not hell bent on on these, if his position and deposition deserve it, why not ? Don't think it is a huge effort for a journalist.
This may come out inappropriate to some, anyways. Now in the peak west neo-liberals fight like nuts about how their pronouns should be addressed and it sometimes comes out as tragically comic public freakout. Have seen Indian corporate MNC staff copy the same and at least some of them announcing their pronouns in first sentance of emails, linkedin, etc. They get tons of agreeable encouraging people too listening. But, people now have problems with using respectful words where it is well deserved.
> Rich and upper middle class. Same everywhere.
Not always necessarily.
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Northstar
Things became informal. Now there is this drive to do what? I'm not sure
Informal does not change with the new woke mood. If you aren't being offensive what is the need for these pronouns? I think most will just ignore it.
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Northstar
For what ?Unfortunately, it is a political hot potato of an issue, laws /bills are being debated / introduced, people are going to jail, etc. in countries where Indians want to mass migrate. Afraid am better if avoid these kind of discussions, should not go uncomfortable range
What kind of Taliban country is that?
Just do a simple google search and can find at least some information.
btw, didn't know these kind if issues were keeping the midnight oil burning in here too !!! People might've suffered a lot without this law /s
www.business-standard.com
Enough internet for me today...
btw, didn't know these kind if issues were keeping the midnight oil burning in here too !!! People might've suffered a lot without this law /s
In a first, India uses 'she', 'her' to refer to all genders in draft law
The draft Digital Personal Protection Bill, 2022, which has been put up for public consultation on Friday, finds mention of the two pronouns.
Enough internet for me today...
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Northstar
Debunked: Teacher wasn't jailed over pronouns, but for breaking a court order by going to school
Burke was sent to Mountjoy Prison this week.
www.thejournal.ie
Irish upset about being misrepresented in the world's media, HA!
I've seen this substitution of him, his with she & her years back before this woke was even a thing. No big dealbtw, didn't know these kind if issues were keeping the midnight oil burning in here too !!! People might've suffered a lot without this law /s
In a first, India uses 'she', 'her' to refer to all genders in draft law
The draft Digital Personal Protection Bill, 2022, which has been put up for public consultation on Friday, finds mention of the two pronouns.
Enough internet for me today...
Aim is to be inclusive
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Here i was thinking people were bad with grammar or English was hard for them when they used both he and she in the same sentence to refer to the same person.
I was thinking this bill was made to not make fun of such people. Any way looks like it has been postponed looking at the amount of changes that was proposed to it.
One question. Will it be fair for a guy to get angry if someone repeatedly referred to him as her or she? This woke shit is making life miserable.
Dude it's just one country, US. Others aren't that weird. And it's just a phase like NFT. It'll pass.
That Debunked article seems to be more shit tier actually proving the point again:
'The school he taught at sought an injunction after it claimed that Burke interrupted a church service held to mark the school’s 260th anniversary, which was attended by clergy, staff, past and present pupils, parents, and board members.
The school alleges that at the event, Burke said that his then-principal should withdraw a request for teachers to address a transitioning student by their preferred pronouns.'
So, the whole thing is about pronouns only which indeed is a political hot potato now, uselessly boiling over nothing and wasting human focus, mental energy and valuable airtime all over.
> I've seen this substitution of him, his with she & her years back before this woke was even a thing. No big deal
> Aim is to be inclusive
LOL.
See, how inclusive people want to be, they will even want to forget their own identity to defend extremely few deranged people.
In the end will come to know the whole thing is about controlling others, was not even about those 'useless idiots'
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Now a days, even if one use Sir / Madam, that will be a huge issue for one in a million. Laws will be changed for not offending that 1 in a million and those who find Sir / Madam unnecessary will be willingly /unwillingly catering to those without any complaints, only point I wanted to convey.
Anyways, think more is being discussed on this than needed here, so am out.
'The school he taught at sought an injunction after it claimed that Burke interrupted a church service held to mark the school’s 260th anniversary, which was attended by clergy, staff, past and present pupils, parents, and board members.
The school alleges that at the event, Burke said that his then-principal should withdraw a request for teachers to address a transitioning student by their preferred pronouns.'
So, the whole thing is about pronouns only which indeed is a political hot potato now, uselessly boiling over nothing and wasting human focus, mental energy and valuable airtime all over.
> I've seen this substitution of him, his with she & her years back before this woke was even a thing. No big deal
> Aim is to be inclusive
LOL.
See, how inclusive people want to be, they will even want to forget their own identity to defend extremely few deranged people.
In the end will come to know the whole thing is about controlling others, was not even about those 'useless idiots'
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Now a days, even if one use Sir / Madam, that will be a huge issue for one in a million. Laws will be changed for not offending that 1 in a million and those who find Sir / Madam unnecessary will be willingly /unwillingly catering to those without any complaints, only point I wanted to convey.
Anyways, think more is being discussed on this than needed here, so am out.
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Northstar
Other way around. He wants to be referred to as she or she wants to be known as a he
That's how I understood it anyway.
I find this pronouns business mildly amusing btw
Again, the school got a restraining order. He was sent to jail for violating the order, not for his refusal of pronouns which is ridiculous.
You should have said he was barred from teaching for refusing to comply with this pronoun's business. That would be accurate. This will happen with the PC crap that started in the 80s. You had to be careful how you referred to minorities. Terms that might be in common use were deemed derogatory with remedial measures offered to the plaintiff. Yeah, you could lose your job over this. Many did.
Well, he had a choice. Either find another school or contest the injunction in court. He chose neither.
This is way over the top. In most places that 'guy' would be told to leave or the cops would get called.
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Mr.J
Herald
In USA, all former presidents are called by 'President (Last Name)' even after they step down. At least in official communication and documentation.
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Wow, you didn't even read your own link it looks like. He wasn't suspended because he didn't want to use pronouns. He was suspended because he was being a nuisance.
So he first tried to hid behind shield of religion, then disrupted Church service, and then started shouting at and following the principal, and even after getting suspended for this behaviour he came to the school campus.
Which is way different than 'suspended for not using proper pronouns'.
Don't fall for cherrypicked alt-right propaganda bs.
Being inclusive doesn't mean accommodating bigots.
And what do you mean by 'forget their identity'?
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> Again, the school got a restraining order. He was sent to jail for violating the order, not for his refusal of pronouns which is ridiculous.
The school got restraining order because he raised pronouns issue, Burke interrupted a church service held to mark the school’s 260th anniversary, which was attended by clergy, staff, past and present pupils, parents, and board members. The issue was about pronouns to begin with.
The root cause and restrain order which was violated by him was about pronouns to be used at specific class of people raised by Burke in the church function. Its all about pronouns.
@Mr.J Yep, the whole nuisance thing is about pronouns to begin with. The entire hell raised because of people's preferences on how they are to be addressed. And those nuisance raised against it.
And here we poor Indians are discussing whether Sir / Madam should be used or not.
> Wow, you didn't even read your own link it looks like.
Seems, it was not my link !
Lol, am out of this...
The school got restraining order because he raised pronouns issue, Burke interrupted a church service held to mark the school’s 260th anniversary, which was attended by clergy, staff, past and present pupils, parents, and board members. The issue was about pronouns to begin with.
The root cause and restrain order which was violated by him was about pronouns to be used at specific class of people raised by Burke in the church function. Its all about pronouns.
@Mr.J Yep, the whole nuisance thing is about pronouns to begin with. The entire hell raised because of people's preferences on how they are to be addressed. And those nuisance raised against it.
And here we poor Indians are discussing whether Sir / Madam should be used or not.
> Wow, you didn't even read your own link it looks like.
Seems, it was not my link !
Lol, am out of this...
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This is so confusing!! So why are these trans people forcing others to call them by their pronouns and why do they fight back or do a witch hunt against people who don't want to call them by their preferred pronouns? Isn't it their (the trans person's) problem in the first place? If they want to be included and called whatever they want to be called why are they excluding people who don't care about that bs?