Why no pics of the 'objects' being shot down in the US/Can ?

[eternoMind]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625241477642088454

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a “mystery,” but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret—until now

seymourhersh.substack.com

This, the US blowing up Nordstream, is entirely a plausible thing if one approaches foreign policy from a realist perspective. This also means giving oxygen to conspiracy theorists from all sides, but a closer examination of a country's IR playbook should be enough to separate the signal from the noise.

 

[n1r0]

Sidewinders don't miss especially not against a balloon.

No weapon has a 100% guarantee that it wil destroy the intended target, or even a 0 chance of failure.

The thinking is the balloon payload contained a one-shot jammer to make the AIM-9 miss.

The AIM-9X missile used for all four engagements uses a thermal imaging sensor to home in on targets emitting/reflecting infrared radiation. The countermeasure for any heat seeking missile is flares: super hot burning Magnesium wire that will work as a decoy for the missile to lock on to instead of the "colder" target itself. You don't need a special jammer for it as such. Jammers are for radar-guided missiles and has zero effect for heat seekers.

Sometimes the seeker might malfunction and lose lock, or the proximity fuse can fail to detect when it is near the target and not go off.

The real interesting part with these incidents is that NORAD's radars are powerful enough to track debris from rocket launches in space - something even as small as a few centimetres. They should be easily able to track weather balloons inside our atmosphere, which would indicate they knew where the balloons were even before they reached US airspace. The fact that all of a sudden everyone is looking up seems like a diversion.

 

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The AIM-9X missile used for all four engagements uses a thermal imaging sensor to home in on targets emitting/reflecting infrared radiation. The countermeasure for any heat seeking missile is flares: super hot burning Magnesium wire that will work as a decoy for the missile to lock on to instead of the "colder" target itself. You don't need a special jammer for it as such. Jammers are for radar-guided missiles and has zero effect for heat seekers.

No flares were detected.

Sometimes the seeker might malfunction and lose lock, or the proximity fuse can fail to detect when it is near the target and not go off.

That will have to do for now until more info comes out. Nothing is guaranteed but you expect a workhorse like the AIM to do its job.

The real interesting part with these incidents is that NORAD's radars are powerful enough to track debris from rocket launches in space - something even as small as a few centimetres. They should be easily able to track weather balloons inside our atmosphere, which would indicate they knew where the balloons were even before they reached US airspace. The fact that all of a sudden everyone is looking up seems like a diversion.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here ?

 

[n1r0]

No flares were detected.

Precisely, saying a heat seeker was "jammed" makes no sense. Jamming messes with measuring the distance to a target, you can't hide the direction it is coming from.

That will have to do for now until more info comes out. Nothing is guaranteed but you expect a workhorse like the AIM to do its job.

Hence why a fighter carries multiple missiles, else it would carry only the minimum required for an engagement.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here ?

Oh this was in reference to Snowden's tweet linked above

 

[booo]

 

[n1r0]

Adding to above, here's how the rolleron works:

Edit: It's hard to tell the size from the video, but the real missiles are 3 metre / ~9 feet in length

 

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Precisely, saying a heat seeker was "jammed" makes no sense. Jamming messes with measuring the distance to a target, you can't hide the direction it is coming from.

Why would you fire a heat seeker at a target that emits none?

Hence why a fighter carries multiple missiles, else it would carry only the minimum required for an engagement.

Against a jet trying to evade, not a sitting duck like a balloon.

Oh this was in reference to Snowden's tweet linked above

I try to keep what I hear from Snowden to a minimum. The man betrayed the confidence & trust placed in him. Even Putin agrees with that.

 

[6pack]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/114w81r

Turned out to be a $12 amateur hobby baloon. $400,000 for 2 missiles.

 

[n1r0]

Why would you fire a heat seeker at a target that emits none?

The ambient air temperature at 20,000 ft is 2°C. Even if the balloon and its payload was not generating any heat, they would reflect sunlight, which to a thermal sensor would appear as heat. What you need for any targetting system is a contrast - the cold air + reflecting balloon is enough.
Snow may be ice cold, but through a FLIR camera, it will look super hot when it is reflecting sunlight.

Against a jet trying to evade, not a sitting duck like a balloon.

You seem to be under the false presumption that (marketing folks would love you to believe) things work flawlessly and are infalliable. Things can fail on their own without alien/Chinese involvement. Teslas are not 100% self driving cars no matter what Musk claims.

Even Putin agrees with that.

I won't say anything except...

$400,000 for 2 missiles.

400k each!

 

[6pack]

400k each!

You're right. I saw this on the wiki page.

Unit cost
US$381,069.74 (Block II)
US$399,500.00 (Block II Plus)
US$209,492.75 (training missile)
(All as in 2019[2])

Apparently it is the cheapest missile in their inventory.

 

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The ambient air temperature at 20,000 ft is 2°C. Even if the balloon and its payload was not generating any heat, they would reflect sunlight, which to a thermal sensor would appear as heat. What you need for any targetting system is a contrast - the cold air + reflecting balloon is enough.

Baloon was at 60,000 - 80,000 + ft. The temperature there is around -50 °C. What will the temperature of the balloon be? A few degrees warmer maybe.

Layers of Earth's Atmosphere | Center for Science Education

Layers of Earth's atmosphere: troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere and exosphere.

scied.ucar.edu

Air temperature at 20,000 feet is not 2 degrees C btw. We've got guys who've served and fought at that height.

Snow may be ice cold, but through a FLIR camera, it will look super hot when it is reflecting sunlight.

That's the theory

You seem to be under the false presumption that (marketing folks would love you to believe) things work flawlessly and are infalliable. Things can fail on their own without alien/Chinese involvement. Teslas are not 100% self driving cars no matter what Musk claims.

It was the Major General that mentioned it. He couldn't figure it out and the Americans aren't saying anything.

It's got ramifications for anyone that will take these airships down in the future. So I'm a bit reluctant to call it an oopsy for now.

It was an informative video with the General giving his assessment on this affair for anyone interested.

I won't say anything except...

You wouldn't be if he was one of ours

 

[booo]

The ambient air temperature at 20,000 ft is 2°C.

Lol… whoever told you that. @20k its much lower.
There a diagram called airgram in windy app. Check that to get a decent idea. In the below picture @500millibar ( around 18k msl) temp is -4F(-20C).

 

[n1r0]

...( around 18k msl) temp is -4F(-20C).

Ah seems you're right. I must have read it wrong. Thank you for correcting

But, the colder the ambient air, the better the thermal contrast. Like being able to see a candle at night vs in daylight

Baloon was at 60,000 - 80,000 + ft. The temperature there is around -50 °C. What will the temperature of the balloon be? A few degrees warmer maybe.

There were 4 different balloon shootdowns. The F16 was #4 and at around 20k ft.

You have dug yourself into a hole here. If the missile could NOT lock on the balloon's heat signature, then why did 4 of the 5 shots find their targets? You can't easily spot a white object on a white background, or a black object on a black background; white on black or black on white however will give you a very good contrast that let's you see where the object is.

That's the theory

Ummm do you believe the earth is actually flat, and Australia was invented by NASA too?

I'm afraid we're going way OT though.

 

[booo]

Ah seems you're right. I must have read it wrong. Thank you for correcting

But, the colder the ambient air, the better the thermal contrast. Like being able to see a candle at night vs in daylight

Useless fact: I have flown paraglider at 18k in summer when the ground temperature was over 30C still it is very cold at those altitudes.

Anyhow, yes the colder the temperature the better it is for ir sensors. Thats why james webb telescope’s sensor is required to be extremely cool some where near absolute zero to take very far pictures. That doesn’t mean missile will definitively hit because we don’t know the calibration details. There is a lot of Khayali Pulav being cooked here but it is tasty.

But again, I feel it’s waste of money to use a sidewinder on a balloon but if you ask anyone here where i live they will yell MURICA.

 

[n1r0]

Useless fact: I have flown paraglider at 18k in summer when the ground temperature was over 30C still it is very cold at those altitudes.

Good thing you were not in a helicopter - you might have felt like turning the fan off!

Anyhow, yes the colder the temperature the better it is for ir sensors. Thats why james webb telescope’s sensor is required to be extremely cool some where near absolute zero to take very far pictures.

Right. That is why imaging systems have an active cooling systems. Missiles can have it built-in or hooked up to a cylinder in the plane. It also reduces thermal noise in the image

 

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There were 4 different balloon shootdowns. The F16 was #4 and at around 20k ft.

Am referring to the one over Huron. Why was the balloon at only 20k feet? That's odd. Won't make a difference to the missile though.

You have dug yourself into a hole here. If the missile could NOT lock on the balloon's heat signature, then why did 4 of the 5 shots find their targets? You can't easily spot a white object on a white background, or a black object on a black background; white on black or black on white however will give you a very good contrast that let's you see where the object is.

The question isn't why the four worked but why one missed. It does make the case stronger for no jamming if the other 4 worked.

These missiles are 6 figures a piece, it's not good it misses against a slow moving target.

 

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Some hilarious jokes have come out of this. Here's a couple

 

[booo]

Pretty sic pic imo…

THE U-2 AND BALLOONS – SOME HISTORY, AND SOME THOUGHTS

A U-2 pilot looks down on the Chinese balloon. The shadow of his aircraft can be seen on the balloon’s fabric. Intercepting stratospheric balloons is a new mission for the U-2, that proves ag…

dragonladytoday.com

 

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Didn't know U2 still flies these days. What was used to take down the balloon? the article doesn't say. likely that was not the U2's job

 

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