rdst_1
Juggernaut
He is not debating. In fact, I welcome his thread, correcting a common misconception that I didn't even know I had.
Widespread misspelling of the name of my city
- Thread starter Pimpom
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nRiTeCh
Oracle
You mean the state Chief Minister? Except for the most recent ones, I've personally known our past CMs, Chief Secretaries, many ministers and department heads. What do you expect them to do?
I wrote in my opening post that the state government often receives communications from the Central govt. spelling Aizawl as Aizwal or Aizawal. Sometimes our people point out the error and try to make corrections; more often they don't bother any more because they know from experience that it's an exercise in futility. They have mostly given up.
I think OP's point is that the apathy due to which this comes about is just as bad. Although I might be mistaken.
nRiTeCh
Oracle
Only an official announcement wrt spelling and pronunciation can make everyone aware..
There have been many attempts along that line. It hasn't done any good. Did you notice how many responses in this thread have failed to accept that the spelling 'Aizwal' is wrong?
You're not mistaken. Thanks for your input. You got the point. But see how many other replies in this thread itself refuse to accept that the spelling 'Aizwal' is wrong?
That depends on the name and its roots.
Take, for example, that city to the north of Delhi, inside the NCR area. I've seen its name written as Sonipat or Sonepat. I believe that this is because the middle vowel sounds somewhere between e and i. Written English is very poor at representing sounds, especially vowels. So both spellings are acceptable (correct me if I'm wrong - I was just an occasional visitor while my son was studying there).
The case of Aizawl is different. Each letter in my language is always pronounced exactly the same and never varies from word to word. The letter i always sounds as a clear ee, no variation. And, as I said before, there are no "in-between" sounds in our language. No ambiguities in pronunciation. So there has never been a different spelling for Aizawl or any other word. And no visitor will ever hear variations in the pronunciation.
There's another factor that baffles my people as to why so many Indians get it wrong. The factor is that the name is short - only six letters and the phonetics follow common sounds in English.
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blr_p
Oracle
superczar
Keymaster
I think the point some (incl I ) are trying to make is that the incorrect spelling (and the resulting incorrect pronunciation) is a result of some error or mixup that happened a long time ago .
Most people do not mispronunce it on account of any apathy or malafide intent. Unfortunately that is the spelling we saw in textbooks when young and it got imprinted.
For me, it remained that way till I met a colleague / drinks buddy when I started working.
For some, it would have got corrected if and when they got a chance to travel there.
Thanks to your thread, some would have realized it now.
Case in point, to this date, a lot of websites, even ASI have still got it wrong as well
Aizawl, India Air Quality & Pollen | Weather Underground
Pollen and Air Quality forecast for Aizawl, IN with air quality index, pollutants, pollen count and pollution map from Weather Underground.
www.wunderground.com
Aizwal Circle « Archaeological Survey of India
Indian monuments,asi.nic.in,https://asi.nic.in, Archaeological Survey of India, ASI, ASI Headquarter, Dharohar Bhawan, 24 Tilak Marg, ASI Dharohar Bhawan,niteshchahar
asi.nic.in
Aizwal | Central Bank of India
blr_p
Oracle
Not google though. Enter Aizwal and it asks did you mean Aizawl
A foriegn company gets it right but the local's still cannot.
I have a similar bugbear as the OP. I'm sick and tired of hearing this term 'McMohan' line, this even includes senior officers that have sat their butts down not very far from it.
There was never any McMohan, its McMAHON as Henry would have said it.
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That's what makes it so maddening. I've never known a foreign company or individual to get it wrong.Not google though. Enter Aizwal and it asks did you mean Aizawl
A foriegn company gets it right but the local's still cannot.
Aha, it irks you even if it doesn't affect you personally. Imagine what it's like for us.
We don't think it's deliberately misspelled out of any malicious intent, and I understand when some of you say that they thought it was spelt Aizwal because that's the way they saw it in books.
However, the idea that the situation is caused by something that happened long ago is not quite correct. True, it started a long time ago, but it's incorrect to think that the widespread misspelling is all due to something that happened in the past. Rather, it is a continuing process.
Consider this scenario which happens in real life all the time: We interact with mainstream Indians online or face to face when we're in one of the cities. We give the name of our city, spoken, in writing or spelt out letter by letter. Many of them have never heard of the name and some even ask us which country it is in. So the idea of some pre-existing misconception does not apply here. Yet, many of them come back immediately with the wrong spelling and pronunciation. It happens all the time, much too often to be dismissed as an occasional mistake.
Did you read my post just above yours in my reply to nRiTeCh? I said "There have been many attempts along that line. It hasn't done any good."Won't know unless you try
rdst_1
Juggernaut
I don't know how you got the idea that people here are defending the wrong spelling and pronunciation. In fact, I am thankful that you pointed out we were making this mistake unknowingly. At best, we pointed out that we are pronouncing it that way because of the wrong spelling we have learned. But again, thanks for correcting us.
Maybe poor wording on their part. I definitely got the impression that at least some feel that Aizwal must be correct or at least a valid alternative because they've seen it written that way in books. Someone even called the thread a debate which implies that there are opposing opinions and counter-arguments. My intention was to point out a common error, explain the background and make an appeal to spread the truth.
You're welcome. And, as I said at the beginning, please spread the word where you can.
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blr_p
Oracle
I didn't even know this was an issue until you brought it up. That is a symptom of the problem. I need to run this by a contact of mine. He's spent time in your state. When he retired from the forces he decided to raise funds to setup a school in a village. The idea was if the kids of the differnt tribes spent time with each other at a young age then they would not grow up to hate the other. Promotes harmony.
The NE is as complicated to Indians as India is to foreigners. The languages and dialects are varied and many. eg. people from one end of Manipur cannot understand what someone from the same state coming at the other end is saying. That is a communications issue at the most basic level.
It takes more mixing. You guys come to mainland but its not the same from the other direction.
Can we get rid of this inner line crap ? why should I need a visa to visit another part of the same country. I get that you don't want to be swamped by us. But basic tourism should not have these restrictions.
Why did it fail earlier ? what are the reasons. I see no alternative to being persistent about it. If it matters to you.
rdst_1
Juggernaut
This is prevalent in a lot more states other than NE. I see it in Himachal as well where the dialects are vastly different in a span of just 70-100 kms. It is mostly different in all the valleys. For example Kangri (Kangra) is very different from Mandyali (Mandi) which is again different from what Kullu people speak and then Lahauli speak very different dialects. The difference is so vast that you would think they are speaking completely different languages. I think this is common across a lot of hill states where inter-mingling was more difficult in the past.
Here's another example of the mindset that makes mainstream Indians continue to use the wrong spelling for the name of my city:
Another TE member has just shipped an item I bought from him by Speed Post. My name is Zotin Khuma, a short name that's easy to spell and pronounce - just like that of my city.
The member got my name right on the package but the P.O. guy still changed my surname to "Kumar".
This is not the first time either. I've had it changed to Joytin Kumar, Jotin Kumar and others.
Another TE member has just shipped an item I bought from him by Speed Post. My name is Zotin Khuma, a short name that's easy to spell and pronounce - just like that of my city.
The member got my name right on the package but the P.O. guy still changed my surname to "Kumar".
This is not the first time either. I've had it changed to Joytin Kumar, Jotin Kumar and others.
superczar
Keymaster
Mate, have said this before too.. Its not a result of any kind of prejudice but simply lack of familiarity with some names/ terms that may be uncommon to said region.
I have a first name that’s reasonably common in North India (Abhi-nav)
When I was living in Chennai, half the folks - esp delivery agents would almost always interpret it as Abhi-lash (don’t ask me why)
After a while, I gave up and when I would get a delivery related call, i would positively affirm my name as Abhilash when asked..lol
It would be easy for me to attribute it to some kind of latent racism harbored in TN towards north Indians - but I can comfortably say that the root cause was not this.
Similar story for when outside India - In the west, nobody seems to get the pronunciation right even though it may seem pretty simple to me.
To repeat, it’s not a mindset/ prejudice problem - its simply lack of familiarity.
blr_p
Oracle
Over a decade ago I did a reverse look-up of the BSNL landline numbers of my neighbours and discovered hilarious spelling errors in their names.
I started using those spellings in the occasional correspondence I would have with them for a laugh
dexterz
Herald
Each region has its own set of practices and ignorance. Tamilnadu should actually be Tamizh Nadu if we are spelling it as we pronounce it but I don't think any other language has 'ழ' or Zha as its spelled in english.
I'm from TN and when ever I used to go to Mumbai or Delhi for work and visit a client place, I would have to sign the security register. The security guards would ask me about my surname and I'd reply I don't have one. I had to show ID cards to prove that I had only my given name. I just went along with it because I knew those guards don't come across many people without surnames on daily basis in their line of work
After aadhar started, I had to expand my initial and add my dad's name after my given name. Now when I joined a new company, my colleagues thought I was a north Indian since they read my dad's name Agoram (means without deformations in Tamizh) as Arora and were surprised when I spoke Tamil and told them I was born and brought up in Chennai. When I speak to colleagues from other state and reply to them in Hindi they are surprised I speak Hindi as a Tamizhan.
Lot of it is to do with lack of familiarity/ignorance and some stereotype propagated by media and politics.
I'm from TN and when ever I used to go to Mumbai or Delhi for work and visit a client place, I would have to sign the security register. The security guards would ask me about my surname and I'd reply I don't have one. I had to show ID cards to prove that I had only my given name. I just went along with it because I knew those guards don't come across many people without surnames on daily basis in their line of work
After aadhar started, I had to expand my initial and add my dad's name after my given name. Now when I joined a new company, my colleagues thought I was a north Indian since they read my dad's name Agoram (means without deformations in Tamizh) as Arora and were surprised when I spoke Tamil and told them I was born and brought up in Chennai. When I speak to colleagues from other state and reply to them in Hindi they are surprised I speak Hindi as a Tamizhan.
Lot of it is to do with lack of familiarity/ignorance and some stereotype propagated by media and politics.
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If you go over the thread again, you'll see that I never claimed that the mistakes are caused by racism or prejudice. That's an assumption on your part.
The point of the thread, and what's so inexplicable, is the inability of many Indians to move their thoughts away from an initial concept even when evidence to the contrary is staring at them.
None of my people would ever spell a name like Thiruvananthapuram wrong - except perhaps as a rare typo which is an entirely different matter.
Some Indian names have different but equally acceptable spellings because there is no precise representation of the sounds in the English alphabet. A syllable may sound like something between b and v, v nd u, e and i, etc. etc. This is a different matter. Take the Bengali name Bhattacherjee, for example. I believe this is a common name and I've seen different owners of the name spell it differently - like Batacherji, Bhatacherji, Battacherjee and so on. If I receive a communication from someone with this name, I'll simply spell it exactly as he/she spells it.
dexterz
Herald
People rarely change preconceived notions unless it affects them or their near ones in some manner.
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