Yes, no compulsion for employers to care for employees. There will always be someone who will work for less. No matter how much they are educated, they will work for a pittance and make life tough for the rest. All this due to over population and I still see all religion/caste/etc young couples aim for 3 kids. I used to blame poor people of a certain state in the North for over population but I see even people from Gujarat, Maharashtra, Delhi etc all aiming for 3 kids no matter what, no matter whether they are rich or poor. This country is doomed. There's too many idiots now compared to intelligent people. We are laughing at USA for people being idiots but even we are no better. Even our country has lot more idiots than sensible people.
Work toxicity on the rise
- Thread starter nRiTeCh
- Start date
Population is an asset, if managed well be leaders, unfortunately for India we know how it goes.
Population is an asset when there are constructive avenues to channel it to. This requires a lot of foresight and investment. When you can't do so, it becomes a rat race and then the powers that be, divert that ire by turning people against each other and not against them; using region, religion, caste.
Till date India as a country didn't get an opportunity to efficiently utilize it's population as an asset.
China could, to a good extend.
When discussion about India, only negatives are too much, positives are not enough to be seen.
@Ramadhir, the lobbies will get crushed after India's demographic changes - when there's no further 'cheap labor' available easily. next-to-next generation may reap the benefits.
Congrats @buzz88 . I'm in the same situation - just left my job and will find another in a few months. Going up the ladder was bad for personal health and family time.
And look what Japan paid for it. Korea as well. China is about to. Economic prosperity of a country has a negative correlation with the average age of its population. People spend more effort/focus/time/energy to build self/nation and birth rates fall. Sadly, the development, high GDP, etc. comes at a social and cultural cost.
salman8506
Herald
I am in same boat now, about 18 years of experience of which 11 years in current org, work culture has now gone to shit, I am in mid senior position with delegation however it's very bad and toxic culture now, it's like dog eat dog. My bp comes down when I take leave and goes back up when I start work lol. Pay disparity is a joke. I have some financial backing I built over the years and some passive income which should support me for 2 years about and more with basic expenses. Let's see i might just take the plunge soon.
Uh oh :-( Sorry to hear about your bad work experience, @salman8506 . I have 17 years total exp. I had multiple lifestyle changes (all bad ones!) and high BP in the last 2-3 years. So, left a mid-senior position at Microsoft. Yes, it is such a dog-eat-dog world -- no sanity at all. I wish everyone can build some passive income - the amount doesn't matter. Financial freedom gives us far more guts than anything else.
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Oracle
In the US it's estimated by 2030 that 45% of women aged 25-44 will be single & childless. In 2018 it was 41% of women.
As women earn more they expect guys that make as much if not more and realise they are all competing for the same top 10% that treat them like sh*t.
Great for business as more customers but not good for society.
Huh? No, the opposite is true.
Interesting phenomenon. I wonder what's driving it because among middle classes its reducing.
So the intelligent can command a premium. Yes?
Forget about freshers. There is over supply for them everywhere.
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More like a hundred year.
Today, you see city infra is failing and excess of cheap labor. I don't think it has a lot to do with population, as many are suggesting. It's not like the population has suddenly tripled in the past 10 years.
What has happened then? People are moving to cities for better opportunities. Plain and simple. How many of you are natives of the cities you are residing in? Remember, more than half of the population still resides in the countryside and works on farms.
Even if India's population starts declining tomorrow, the exodus coming from villages to cities not going to stop. People would still want to better their lives.
Whose fault is it, then? Should we force people to stay in their villages? The fault lies with the govts as they have failed miserably to create alternate cities. Look at the US or China, these countries have an insane number of cities. Whereas India is a country full of villages and with a handful of number of cities.
I live in Maharashtra. More than a third of national tax revenue comes from Maharashtra. More than 60% of the rich population of India lives in this one state. It's the most urban and industrial state in India (by any statistics). And, still, for me, there are only 2 valid cities-Mumbai & Pune-in this whole state. Granted, we have Nashik, Aurangabad, Nagpur etc, and those cities themselves are better than the capital cities of more than half of the Indian states. Still, you can't convince me to move there.
Why couldn't govts create more cities? India has a democracy, comprising people who are mostly uneducated. Such democracies aren't allowed to plan for the next 20–50 years by their voter base. In an election where a party promising benefits in 20 years vs. another party promising another set of benefits next month, we all know who's going to win.
Coming back to our point, India will continue having a limited number of cities going forward. Limited cities mean limited job opportunities. But the exodus of people coming to cities not going to stop. Companies will have access to cheap labor for indefinitely. Work toxicity will follow. Cheap labor and work toxicity are two sides of the same coin.
If you remove 1 billion population from both china and india today, India will still have the largest population in the world and we will still be in this over supply of people mess. Nothing will change because there are still idiots running the govt. We will never utilize our assets efficiently as long as we keep voting these same two parties into power.
Just look at the population of rest of world. Even they are facing similar problems with 200-300 million population.
you mean people are not aiming for 3 kids? then you didn't see the rest of india. Go outside cities and gated societies into remote tier 2/3/4 cities. There is still a very huge demand for boys and three kids in each family. Only the middle class getting f'd by taxes might be thinking of having just 1 kid. The poor who get subsidies or don't care, the new rich class born from selling off their farmland and coming into cities, the already rich affluent class all have 3 kids. Their kids will similarly aim for 3 kids and so on.
No, you're mistaken. Intelligent won't even be in the running because they are over qualified. If you have a huge selection of graduates willing to slave for you, no one will spend more on hiring intelligent people, or even if they hire, the pay will be almost the same. Then there's really no use of getting the higher degrees and wasting time and money on it. Plus here in India, is the higher education courses even that good an investment, if there are a huge number of such higher qualified people vying for the same job? Whether it is just graduates, Masters or Phd, the sheer amount of people makes any advantage go away. If companies pick higher qualified people, they will ask for more money for the same job someone with lower qualifications will do for less. Either way, people lost any bargaining power to companies long time back. The only times we could bargain is when we are in some niche field of work with very few takers such that the company is forced to pay you more.
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Oracle
I'm going by what people I know tell me which is the middle class
How long for?
Elon Musk's one-word take on alarming population decline in India and China - Times of India
US News: Elon Musk has reiterated his concerns over projected global population decline, emphasizing significant drops in China and India by 2100. Musk's respo
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
I'm still intrigued because the only other place I know of where people want three kids is Israel and its twice that with the orthodox. Thing is the government there encourages it. Not the case in India.
What if I used the word experienced?
The available market of qualified people reduces if you want someone with five years and one with ten years.
Is 30+ years long enough for you? I've seen this from past 30+ years.
Elon Musk is talking about US specific problems. He unqualified to speak for rest of the world.
Use whatever word you want. The problem I've seen in companies is, once you go over a certain age, you are a burden to companies no matter how qualified you are. Married people won't spend as much time slogging at work compared to single men. Then there is a problem of too many such qualified 10+ years experienced people all vying for managerial posts which are just 1-2 per 50/100 people. What happens to the rest? When they become too costly to keep, they are fired and young graduates are bought in. Companies expect the older experienced people to train the younger graduates for free. This is happening in USA, Europe, India, China, Japan, Australia etc. There is no dearth of overqualified people even in the 15-20 year experience category who are looking for a new job because their company won't increase their pay from years.
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Oracle
I'm not talking about past. I'm talking future.
How long into the future will this trend of having three kids last in India?
Read the tweet and then see what he is commenting about.
I feel you,
I've outlined my own experience here:
nRiTeCh
Oracle
I was always unlucky on this factor..whenever I used to ask for leaves it was questioned as if I'm going to strike some terror attack on my boss and employer! Been 7-8 yrs I never ever asked for leaves but directly went on leaves stating emergencies!
BC I have tons of unutilized leaves nor do they get encashed or carry forward who the F are such people to ask for justifications then think on it and then decide to approve or disapprove!
Either by hook or crook F the boss!
Due to such issues I have often escalated such issues to the higher management and got bosses transferred to other teams.
It will always be for some employers, positions, teams, projects and streams...