Your thoughts on the BJP's govt. claim of "Every village in the country has been electrified."

Status
Not open for further replies.
blr_p said:
How to supply the increased demand. This will be the open question now that the excuse of no connection isn't there.


And what about the monsoons. Half a year the sky is overcast. What about at night or for higher power demand.

I'm waiting for the local discoms to offer credits for input into the system. Say if you have solar panels, can you add that to the system and get a credit for it. A discount on your bill. If tht optin opens up then people will see solar as an investment and everybody will want to get in on the act. Demand for panels goes up, maybe that means prices go up or supply meets demand and better and cheaper panels come out. Less brownouts eventually because hot days with lots of sun is when people want the AC on and it overloads the grid.

If they are really serious offer a discount on property tax as an incentive


Not in far flung areas. Not economically viable means no return for the effort unless govt subsidises it. And it would take a pretty determined govt with the resources to do so as these will all be losing propositions in the early years. Cannot harp too loudly about this if you accept govt obligation
Click to expand...

Solar is easier to scale. You just keep adding new panels to the existing infrastructure. We do get Canadian Solar panels here for around 10k for a 325W panel. These are built for the toughest conditions and can withstand 120C heat or more. Solar panels get hotter than 100C in direct sunlight in summer i think. All these photo-voltaic panels, good or bad last anywhere from 15 - 25 years. The bad quality panels given to Govt is because of bad unscrupulous contractors buying third rate panels to increase their profit margin and ministers and govt turning a blind eye to them as usual. All these contractors and ministries are hand in hand. Why do you think no good companies get infrastructure projects? All such money making projects only go to unknown companies run by ministers or their family or friends. All of them give sub contracts to smaller feet licking friends and contractors and you see the drift here. End result is useless haphazard unprofessional work without any safety etc.

Local discoms are giving credit in some states. You don't get money but the units get adjusted at end of month.

Why should an electricity board think about economic factor? Don't the governments already subsidize the farmers who use like KW's of energy to run pumps and don't pay money?
Solar would turn out cheaper to them since it does not have too much maintenance. Just dust the panels and keep battery liquid full at all times. They could teach the villagers to do it. A 100AH battery in every house could give the villagers light at night. Instead of bulbs or tubelights, they should be given 7W or 10W LED bulbs. These are bright enough to light up a 120SqFt room.

Why should the govt give discount on property tax? Now days only super rich can afford homes in cities where prices are in crores. Don't tell me such rich are scrounging for a lakh of rupees to install solar panels on their houses. Middle class and above strata people can very well afford to install solar without any subsidy. People buy motorcycles that cost lakhs or cars that cost lakhs, and can't afford solar? btw, whats the ROI on cars or motorcycles?

If you're talking about villages, then yes the government should subsidize solar in villages because it will reduce the burden on electricity boards who by the way give 24/7 electricity to cities only and don't care about poor villages.
 
adaneam said:
Sanghi world bank
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ification-world-bank/articleshow/64027040.cms
Click to expand...
However, India is not the fastest country in electrification. Bangladesh and Kenya, for example are faster in electrification than India, she noted.
India, she said, is now entering final stage of electrification.
"You are already well over 80 per cent, so you're getting into the more difficult aspects of electrification: the more remote population, the harder to reach people," she explained.
However, reliability of service is an area of concern for India, she said.
"We know that in some parts of India or having the connection doesn't necessarily guarantee the energy's reliable supply. So, getting the connection obviously is very important, but India still has a long way to continue to work on actually making that access meaningful in terms of hours of service," Foster said.
Click to expand...
It literally says right there in the article what we are discussing here. Nice attempt to troll tho.
 
6pack said:
We do get Canadian Solar panels here for around 10k for a 325W panel. These are built for the toughest conditions and can withstand 120C heat or more. Solar panels get hotter than 100C in direct sunlight in summer i think. All these photo-voltaic panels, good or bad last anywhere from 15 - 25 years.
Click to expand...
Got any brand names to look at. Would need six of them with a solar UPS i think.

The bad quality panels given to Govt is because of bad unscrupulous contractors buying third rate panels to increase their profit margin and ministers and govt turning a blind eye to them as usual. All these contractors and ministries are hand in hand. Why do you think no good companies get infrastructure projects? All such money making projects only go to unknown companies run by ministers or their family or friends. All of them give sub contracts to smaller feet licking friends and contractors and you see the drift here. End result is useless haphazard unprofessional work without any safety etc.
Click to expand...
Wins on lowest bid and then cost over runs. Can make the bidding process more transparent. They did that with a roads project in the city here. Called Tender SURE. Oh hw the city contractors howled about it. They knew they got cut out and started putting articles abut corruption in the papers. Nothing doing.

Local discoms are giving credit in some states. You don't get money but the units get adjusted at end of month.
Click to expand...
Not in my state yet, but solar is being sold as a way to cut down on battery recharge costs and even to save on battery wear & tear. I've yet to figure out how one does the accounting. Without meters logging data there is no way to know other than marketing literature.

Why should an electricity board think about economic factor? Don't the governments already subsidize the farmers who use like KW's of energy to run pumps and don't pay money?
Solar would turn out cheaper to them since it does not have too much maintenance. Just dust the panels and keep battery liquid full at all times. They could teach the villagers to do it. A 100AH battery in every house could give the villagers light at night. Instead of bulbs or tubelights, they should be given 7W or 10W LED bulbs. These are bright enough to light up a 120SqFt room.
Click to expand...
They usually do not and have to forgive loans for the sake of social stability. This is in areas where electricity is already available and illegal hookups. Which is why they're always on life support with no money for maintenance or scale planning. The new electrification scheme introduces pre-paid metering.

But taking a cable out to a new place requires resources. That this govt provided because they wanted the bragging rights

Why should the govt give discount on property tax? Now days only super rich can afford homes in cities where prices are in crores. Don't tell me such rich are scrounging for a lakh of rupees to install solar panels on their houses. Middle class and above strata people can very well afford to install solar without any subsidy. People buy motorcycles that cost lakhs or cars that cost lakhs, and can't afford solar? btw, whats the ROI on cars or motorcycles?

If you're talking about villages, then yes the government should subsidize solar in villages because it will reduce the burden on electricity boards who by the way give 24/7 electricity to cities only and don't care about poor villages.
Click to expand...
How many houses do you see with solar panels installed. It's still a new thing. People have caught on to the idea of LED light but not solar panels.

Villages don't consume much, that happens in the city. If you can get the biggest consumers to be more efficient there will be gains to be had all around
 
Last edited:
What most people don't realise is that practically, the biggest hurdle to a cost-effective solar installation is the cost of batteries. You will get a maximum of 4-5 years life from an exceptionally well maintained battery (not really doable), and typically 2-3 years. At the end of it all, the cost of panels+batteries doesn't justify the savings from going off-grid. Where there is no grid, or erratic supply, it might make a little sense.

The best way to use solar is to emulate the farms - use solar directly off the panels when daylight is available and switch to grid at night. No messing around with batteries.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Julian said:
What most people don't realise is that practically, the biggest hurdle to a cost-effective solar installation is the cost of batteries. You will get a maximum of 4-5 years life from an exceptionally well maintained battery (not really doable), and typically 2-3 years. At the end of it all, the cost of panels+batteries doesn't justify the savings from going off-grid. Where there is no grid, or erratic supply, it might make a little sense.
Click to expand...
4-5 years for a solar tubular battery ? seems a bit low isn't it. These are C10 batteries remember. Figures i'm thinking are 7-8 years. That is if sized properly. Just panels & batteries is 1 lakh down. Then it depends on usage

Could this then be used to power the house ? How many watts of generation can be expected.

The best way to use solar is to emulate the farms - use solar directly off the panels when daylight is available and switch to grid at night. No f*cking around with batteries,
Click to expand...
Will take a lot of panels to be off grid. You will need batteries for backup as a last resort
 
The C rating doesn't matter. All lead acid batteries develop higher internal resistance after some time. And the plates/tubes can get oxidised too. Gradually lowering the capacity till it's almost useless. 7 years out of a battery sounds impossible. Ask around how long batteries have really lasted in normal usage situations.

I don't remember the exact specs or wattage, it was years ago, but my uncle's house had a solar setup which would run the fridge, ACs, even the storage heaters. Only issue were the batteries which kept dying. I think there were 6 or 8 batteries. Panels size was around 3-4m x 2-3m. I do remember that the panels were able to directly provide enough power because there was some issue with the system and the batteries were bypassed for a while.
 
6pack said:
https://www.bijlibachao.com/solar/top-ten-best-solar-panel-brands-manufacturers-india.html

https://www.urjakart.com/solar/solar-panels

http://www.tatapowersolar.com/Solution-For-Consumers/Solar_Rooftop_System
Click to expand...
byline for tata is no electricity bills for 25 years. Sounds great if lights off at sunset. Which will apply more for a business than a home.

When the sun goes down consumption will be higher. Tata's panels appear to be of good quality though

No batteries so either solar or grid. If the power goes off at night which is when you need backup then there seems to be no option to attach a battery

Is Grid Connected System good for everyone?
Although the policy is now available in most states in India, but if you reside in a location which experiences a lot of power cuts, then a “Grid Connected” system is NOT good for you. The reason is - when you have a “Grid Connected” system, you have to put all the electricity that you produce onto the grid. But, during power cuts, you essentially get disconnected from the grid, which is why your system should NOT put electricity on the grid. On such occasions, you need a battery backup to store the electricity that you generate.

Before implementing a solution, you need to assess your power cuts and accordingly decide if putting a “Grid Connected” system works for you or not. Because if power cuts are long and frequent, you would either waste electricity or you would have to figure out a way to store it in batteries.
Click to expand...

https://www.bijlibachao.com/solar/g...top-system-india-home-panel-subsidy-cost.html[DOUBLEPOST=1525609466][/DOUBLEPOST]
Julian said:
The best way to use solar is to emulate the farms - use solar directly off the panels when daylight is available and switch to grid at night. No f*cking around with batteries,
Click to expand...
So long as power cuts aren't long and frequent
 
Last edited:
blr_p said:
If the power goes off at night which is when you need backup then there seems to be no option to attach a battery
Click to expand...

I think we can. Lets say we have a 500W solar system. It goes to a charge controller in house so excess energy is not transmitted to home.

In normal inverters, you just take output from mains and feed a new line to what you want connected through inverters. There's a two pole or step switch in between to stop the inverter charging too. So we just change over all lights and fans electrical system to the inverter and charge the inverter directly through solar while keeping a voltage stabilizer with auto cutoff in between. As long as solar power is giving the minimum voltage (110 - 170V), the voltage stabilizer will keep giving output to the inverter which will charge battery and give power to all fans and lights simultaneously. As soon as solar power drops below certain threshold of 110V, voltage stabilizer will cut off and inverter will fall back to batteries.

Only problem is you can only run fans and lights on this. No fridge, mixer grinder of above 500W, ac, microwave, etc. If you want all these you need bigger solar system and bigger battery bank and ups to take the load. The more stuff we add, the longer it will take on ROI and possibly it will be costly compared to mains power if batteries are replaced frequently etc.
 
Julian said:
The C rating doesn't matter. All lead acid batteries develop higher internal resistance after some time. And the plates/tubes can get oxidised too. Gradually lowering the capacity till it's almost useless. 7 years out of a battery sounds impossible. Ask around how long batteries have really lasted in normal usage situations.
Click to expand...
A minimum of five years if not longer with tubular for a normal home UPS setting. 2-3 seems like what you get from SMF batteries.

How different is solar in the mix. Does it add more stress than a non solar setup ?

I don't remember the exact specs or wattage, it was years ago, but my uncle's house had a solar setup which would run the fridge, ACs, even the storage heaters. Only issue were the batteries which kept dying. I think there were 6 or 8 batteries. Panels size was around 3-4m x 2-3m. I do remember that the panels were able to directly provide enough power because there was some issue with the system and the batteries were bypassed for a while.
Click to expand...
Those are fairly high loads, do you remember how much back up those batteries were giving.
 
Coal plants are costly. Maintenance is costly. Power produced is costly. Plus they put out toxic coal particles in the air. This looks like a one sided study to keep coal plants operating for a few more years or decades.
 
6pack said:
Coal plants are costly. Maintenance is costly. Power produced is costly. Plus they put out toxic coal particles in the air. This looks like a one sided study to keep coal plants operating for a few more years or decades.
Click to expand...

then only the commission will be higher.
 
6pack said:
Plus they put out toxic coal particles in the air. This looks like a one sided study to keep coal plants operating for a few more years or decades.
Click to expand...
Yea.. not a green choice. Its high time we stop burning coal.
 
6pack said:
Coal plants are costly. Maintenance is costly. Power produced is costly. Plus they put out toxic coal particles in the air. This looks like a one sided study to keep coal plants operating for a few more years or decades.
Click to expand...
More costly compared to what ? scrubbers remove those toxic particles. We have growing power needs. Supply has to grow to meet demand.

We have lots of coal and its high time we used it. AIIB allows us to get around WB refusing loans for coal projects

The article is right in calling out the renewables portion. Aspiring to generate that much and actually meeting that target are two very different propositions
 
ROTFLMFAO!

lets get bullet trains and hyperloop, powered by .......... COAL !!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom