Team anna's new campaign Ban Congress (Your vote needed)

[NinByChoice]

Re: Team anna's new campaign Ban Congress (Your vote neeeded)

And if we are to move from position 87 in the worlds transparency index to the top 20 then there is a lot of work to be done. If this is a fight for transparency then i'm all for it.

India wont be very transparent because its made mostly of land. If its made mostly of water it can be more transparent.

What about governance ? we certainly need better governance. These i would call or at least expect as by products of this movement, more transparency & better governance. If AH delivers on these two then it would certainly be a victory for our system.

AH cant deliver anything, not even pizza. AH should vote for a person offering better governance. Obviously he feels that the person he voted for last time is useless. Why did he vote for him then? If he feels no one qualifies, he should stand in elections and win. And deliver better governance within 30 minutes (or free pizza!). Its called a democracy.

One of LN's objections goes like this, we are inherently corrupt so how can we expect our govt to be any different. There are a number of ways to counter this.
First, I find this defeatist, its saying nothing will change which i don't think is true. We might be corrupt but elected officials are expected to be of a higher std because they are in a position to rule over us. Thjis is where accontablilty comes in. How accountable are they presently.

I do not find this defeatist. It says something about the current state of society. Says nothing about change or future. Elected officials will only be as corrupt as the people who elected them.

Second, what purpose does a guard dog have, why have guard dogs, they serve a purpose. Nobody disputes this they are territorial and watch over the house. This at the simplest level is what an obudsman does.

This is not correct. Guard dogs can be bought for money, traded and trained with meat. Your argument is not valid. In any case, why do you want an ombudsman to watch over your house? I would suggest you get good quality locks - Godrej or Navtal. Maybe hire a watchman too.

If the methods are wrong then why did govt pass a unanimous 'sense of the house' motion? they could have just refused to do so. So that tells me at some point they realised the demands were legitimate. That it took a man to make threats of fasting to death only goes to show how unresponsive our govt can be. He was not fasting for some ulterior purpose all he was asking for was better accountability. Why should it take hunger strikes to ask for something as basic as that.

Like you said, Govt. did that just to avoid future violent protests. It takes something as basic as a vote to get an accountable govt. Going hungry only helps fat people lose weight.

This is not how things should be done in a free country.

Im glad you agree that AH methods are not for a free country like ours. Good that we have cleared your clouded mind and accepting that there is no place for AHs behaviour.

The problem at the moment is there is no policing, nobody ever gets caught. In such a regime there is no penalty for misbehaviour. This movement is an attempt to address that shortcoming. So i don't see it as more people policing the system but rather empowering people to begin policing the system

Good. You agree that the police is not working as it should have been. AH should have asked the govt. to fix the police system.

And they pulled back which in my books redeems them from earlier actions.

What is this book that you have written? Has it been published yet? Can you post an online copy?

The bill won't survive in its original form. The climbdown to the three points is a concession in that regard. There is not going to be some parallel unaccountable system being created here. That would actually compound the problem.

Its obvious you havent read the bill - it aims to create a parallel unaccountable system. No doubt about it. You are correct that it will compound the problems. Im glad you are in agreement.

i asked first :tongue:

I asked you first, so please reply. Otherwise accept defeat, that you have no idea of what you are saying.

Oh, whats he doing now then ? why is he letting this standing commitee do its work instead of PROPERLY gheraoing the buggers.

Why does AH want to disrupt govt. work? This is precisely the problem. The govt. is working and AH wants to disrupt it. Im sure he will disrupt the work of the Lokpal too. Unless he is part of it. I think he is just power hungry. Even if Lokpal is formed, he will protest saying that Lokpal is poorly .

Committee on Personnel, Public Grievances, Law and Justice

You see any reports or any minutes of meetings they have there ? nothing, its all secret. We get a 10 page report at the end of this exercise nothing more.

Statistics can be made to say whatever wanted. You are just manipulating statistics to show them in bad light. Have you read this book that said all statistics are wrong, even if they are not?

On another point can you give me your assessment on this dude's shirt ? not sure what to make of it :huh:

No. Can you tell us why you would like to know about that man and his shirt? Is it something to do with your sexual orientation?

No elected representative ever gets convicted. So something is missing here, they tell me its called 'evidence'. Wonder why.

The judiciary and police are weak. Police and judiciary are understaffed. Everyone wants to become IT engineer. No one wants to become judge and constable.

But wait, there is an alternative explanation, because nobody is caught, therefore no crimes were committed in which case we have always had an upstanding govt and indians in
general must have very vivid imaginations. I've faced considerable resistance whenever i've mentioned this for some reason

Maybe because the judiciary is weak. Thats why people get out of their "crimes" so easily. You already agree that police is weak. Just a little more thought and you will agree that judiciary is also weak. You can do it if you put your mind to it. We are all here to cheer for you!!

Was speaking metaphorically.

No, you were just bull-shitting and trying to take this thread away from its original intent. Im glad that I was able to restore this thread to its original glory instead of it veering into a discussion about deforestation in India. Which no doubt is a serious problem.

If you do that the next movement that starts up might not have a so called gandhian behind it, it might have somebody a bit less savoury. If you clamp down again the next movement will be a violent one. What you are suggesting would bring about another emergency some time in the future.

Good. Now the truth comes out that the AH movement is fundamentally violent. The movement will become violent irrespective of the actions of the govt, because they will never be satisfied by the results. The govt. should clamp a curfew on AH (and his supporters) appearing in public or making statements to the press. Next time they gather in that stupid park, govt. should impose curfew. On violation of curfew, govt. should order shoot-at-sight.

How familiar are you with that dark period in our country's history.

Im very familiar since Im also suffering from power cuts during night times. Bangalore has a lot of power cuts you know.

Kashmir, some states in the NE are already police states, the short defintion of that is no legal recourse available. Cops or soldiers can lock you up on the slightest of pretences. We accept this as the price to keep the country intact and pretend it does not happen.

It seems that our country has kept these areas under control by force. They should use the same force in other states that create trouble too. Cant have inequality in our country.

I should have just said inflation as thats the precursor. It then gets manifested in different ways around the world. Arab spring, numerous protests in China that have spiked over the last few years. The govt there raised the bar on income tax for the lowest slab, almost doubling it. In Israel protests over affordable housing. If we expand from inflation to economy, you can add the recent riots in the UK & Greece.

All these movements happened in the last six months, there is a common factor underpinning them. I think its inflation or economical.

Then fasting is a good idea as it will bring down demand and reduce inflation. One good outcome of the AH movement. During the AH fast, food inflation was actually down. Wish more people had continued.

Stomach empty, natives get restless.

Stomach will be empty if you want to protest by fasting. AH supporters dont know this? But seeing how stupid they are, I wouldnt be surprised.

People should do work to earn food. Not make lots of babies and expect the govt. to feed them.

 

[Gannu]

Tit for tat lol! :lol:

 

[abhifusion]

who is anna ?? ...

 

[blr_p]

Tit for tat lol! :lol:

yeah but he's misfired a few times. Maybe next time he will be more alert hyeah:

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

AH cant deliver anything, not even pizza. AH should vote for a person offering better governance. Obviously he feels that the person he voted for last time is useless. Why did he vote for him then? If he feels no one qualifies, he should stand in elections and win. And deliver better governance within 30 minutes (or free pizza!). Its called a democracy.

You think the ppl in his village would agree with that ? he's made some significant changes there over the last cpl of decades. He has delivered there. Whether he can deliver now is an open question and govt already tried to sabotage the effort once. Will they try again.

If he gets his lokpal, then success is down to how well it functions. See, this is the question that is unanswered. Whether such an institution will actually make a difference. Why not give it a chance. Then we will know. One org by its own can't work miracles it will require more work in other areas as well. But its a start in a process that is long overdue.

I do not find this defeatist. It says something about the current state of society. Says nothing about change or future. Elected officials will only be as corrupt as the people who elected them.

yes but you're letting ppl off the hook, ppl that can legally fine you, jail you & even kill you ie govt.

Things work when there is a supporting infrastructure in place to deliver results. We do not have such an infrastructure or its been ineffective to date. This is about building that infrastructure. This is one step in that direction.

This is not correct. Guard dogs can be bought for money, traded and trained with meat. Your argument is not valid. In any case, why do you want an ombudsman to watch over your house? I would suggest you get good quality locks - Godrej or Navtal. Maybe hire a watchman too.

I'd say the bolded bit goes on right now and this is why some ppl dont like it.

Watchman is exactly what we're hiring here, by public demand.

Like you said, Govt. did that just to avoid future violent protests. It takes something as basic as a vote to get an accountable govt. Going hungry only helps fat people lose weight.

There seems to be some disagreement over how accountable the govt we get actually is. Look at the votes at the top. 19 (as i write this) support anna but no other party. What does that tell you about how accountable our govt is ? It tells me that the system in place isn't meeting expectations, that its become stagnant. That is the main point you're missing. We're at a crossroads here.

Im glad you agree that AH methods are not for a free country like ours. Good that we have cleared your clouded mind and accepting that there is no place for AHs behaviour.

Good. You agree that the police is not working as it should have been. AH should have asked the govt. to fix the police system.

What is this book that you have written? Has it been published yet? Can you post an online copy?

Bah, you quoted me out of context, CAMMAN, you're slipping.

Thats 3 points you completely dodged.

Its obvious you havent read the bill - it aims to create a parallel unaccountable system. No doubt about it. You are correct that it will compound the problems. Im glad you are in agreement.

I have read the bill , what i'm not sure of is how much of it will actually survive into the final draft. And thats not a problem. Ah doesn't care about that so long as his 3 points are covered. And thats looking iffy too. Ergo there isn't going to be any parallel unaccountable system. Now if the govt goes and passes the bill, whats he going to do. But if they do not then he gains the advantage.

I asked you first, so please reply. Otherwise accept defeat, that you have no idea of what you are saying.

Accept defeat ? when you have not even engaged. I would say thats a default win for me because you did not even show up to the party.

no show, no win. you just stood on the sidelines and pulled monkey faces at me :lol:

Why does AH want to disrupt govt. work? This is precisely the problem. The govt. is working and AH wants to disrupt it. Im sure he will disrupt the work of the Lokpal too. Unless he is part of it. I think he is just power hungry. Even if Lokpal is formed, he will protest saying that Lokpal is poorly .

How is he disrupting govt presently ? he's just releasing periodic statements, the fun begins if nothing happens in the winter session. Then he gets to go to UP and interfere with Congress there. Thing is how much does Congress expect to win in UP in the first place, that state is pretty much already taken by BSP with scraps left to fight over with the BJP. If you think he disrupted govt work then what do you have to say about the farce last winter session when no work got done at all.

He's already said he does not want to start a party, thats what JP did in the 70s and it did not get very far. Bad plan.

Well, if any lokpal that is created is ineffective he'd have every right to protest it. Though i think it would be some time before he could say that.

Statistics can be made to say whatever wanted. You are just manipulating statistics to show them in bad light. Have you read this book that said all statistics are wrong, even if they are not?

very good, but there's no statistics involved in that last post.

No. Can you tell us why you would like to know about that man and his shirt? Is it something to do with your sexual orientation?

Just thought you might have something intelligent to say for a change :lol:

The judiciary and police are weak. Police and judiciary are understaffed. Everyone wants to become IT engineer. No one wants to become judge and constable.

You're talking about police reform which is a topic in itself. Still does not explain why nobody elected gets convicted.

Maybe because the judiciary is weak. Thats why people get out of their "crimes" so easily. You already agree that police is weak. Just a little more thought and you will agree that judiciary is also weak. You can do it if you put your mind to it. We are all here to cheer for you!!

I did not say police is weak, i said nobody elected ever gets convicted. Judiciary cant do anything if there is no evidence. Evidence comes out when ppl aren't afraid to squeal. We might have the best cops & judiciary in the world but if the nobody comes forward to depose it amounts to nothing. This is where whistleblower protection comes in, again the govts version is weak. Its a sop, expect AH to push for that too.

No, you were just bull-shitting and trying to take this thread away from its original intent. Im glad that I was able to restore this thread to its original glory instead of it veering into a discussion about deforestation in India. Which no doubt is a serious problem.

:lol:

Good. Now the truth comes out that the AH movement is fundamentally violent. The movement will become violent irrespective of the actions of the govt, because they will never be satisfied by the results. The govt. should clamp a curfew on AH (and his supporters) appearing in public or making statements to the press. Next time they gather in that stupid park, govt. should impose curfew. On violation of curfew, govt. should order shoot-at-sight.

How, did you come to the conclusion that the current movement is violent ? Show us where they've been violent.

How many ppl arrested in the two weeks this circus went on. A handful. How many thousands took part ? many.

People should do work to earn food. Not make lots of babies and expect the govt. to feed them.

Not everybody that has kids expects govt to feed them

Also you're going to have to say that to the Tamils, Andhras & Chattisgarh.These three states have very good PDS system, know why ? because everybody has a ration card and they have some loose criteria to qualify for aid. These 3 states don't stick strictly to BPL at all.

They did such a good job that Jairam Ramesh is thinking of applying the same system to the whole country. We currently spend 90,000 crores on food subsidies. This idea will cause it to rise to 1.2 lakh crores or about $26 billion which is < 1% of GDP.

 

[vivek.krishnan]

Yeah, one hell of a pathetic opinion! But some of the points made are valid.

How do you know? Have you met Anna by any chance and talked to him about it?

Isn't the first rule of getting information from the news is not to believe every damn thing you read/see...

*As of how i know about the old congress, I will keep that to myself. And no, my views were not taken from the net after reading some articles. Lets just say they were old school stuff.

BJP is communist and Hindu centric no doubt. Would be really bad for this country. Congress is still the lesser of the 2 evils but evil nonetheless.

And no matter what these 2 parties will always have more power than any other, even in a coalition.

*Quite true. However, must add this, actually Congress is the greater of the two evils, as of now.

Another point, is freaking Anna an idiot? He wants to remove Congress. Sure do that, then BJP comes to power and they will rip this secular country apart. Then he says remove BJP. Do that and Congress comes to power. Is he a kid or what?! mujhe chahiye nahi to main marunga attitude. Just another person who thinks he is more intelligent than the constitutional system of this sovereign nation. Many have come many will go as usual.

*Nope! You are wrong on this one. IF Congress does not get elected in the next round, they will realise what they have done has cost them the seat of power. So they will try not to repeat the same mistakes, but maybe hide them a bit better.

I'm pretty sure in case anything happens to him, 95% of his supporters will crawl back from the hole they came from, ie, their homes and lives, and forget about it in a month or 2 like it always happens.

*Yes, 100% true. Think of what you can remember about the CWG scam or 2G scam. or the Telgi scam. and no, before writing these articles, i did not search them up.

Again, I don't support corruption but I feel his tactics are no less than what a thug would do, holding a nation hostage and what not, be it non violent. This country is not exactly his playground.

*Wow! So lets all go to court, and do something, right? If you want to do something now, you have to play dirty. None of the legal stuff will work.

If you don't like a party, don't vote (I do not know if Indian Elections give an option to vote but to none of the parties) but for christ sake just don't go ahead and bring a party like BJP to power.

*:yawn: You seem to be more of a anti BJP person than an anti corruption guy.

PS: there should be another option in the pole saying: No parties & no Anna

*Anna is not there in the list, and although there is a option of voting for none of the parties, its of no use as the officer will take down our name and address if we go for no vote. I think i do not need further explanation on this. Voting is supposed to be anonymous.

And seriously, if someone comes and says you support corruption because you don't support Anna is another moron (personal opinion ofcourse). Why? Because its like BJP coming and saying if you don't support us you don't support Hindus (you can have tons of examples like that). Everything isn't black or white in the real world, which one would notice if they wake up for once. There is more grey than all the colours combined.

*:yawn: anti BJP trolling as usual. Dude, wake up. You are in the real world, where everyone knows there is no black and white, only grey, especially in politics. And why do you care about what that some1 says? There is no need to show your support by waving flags or tshirts or arm armbands. If you support Anna, next time, do not vote for the corrupt guy, thats all.

If you really want do something about corruption, do it yourself and don't keep shouting I Support Anna and what not and appease your conscience. That is not called being against corruption this is called supporting a man. That's it. Look at you trying to fire a gun when its on someone's shoulder, how convenient. Pathetic.

*There are people who can do stuff, and who cannot. You belong to neither category, as you don't want to do anything. Continue....

TBH, to make India corruption free, we must take the plunge and step into politics. But, in reality, not all of us, infact none of us can do it.

High time you wake up and realize what happens in the real world.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get fired on Left, Right and Centre. It's my personal opinion and not changing anytime soon.

Well, i am not going to fire you, as its your opinion.

 

[Compiler]

:clap:No matter what other say poll says a lot.:clap:

 

[Superbad]

the poll makes it evident why inspite of continous non performance congress still wins every election every term.

the 39.22 % at the bottom won go to vote .

the 1st 20% will vote for congress regardless of what they do to our country.

and the rest votes will be garnered by buying votes from the people from the lower strata of the society.

so the congress model is the best model to stay in power and do just about nothing for the people.

 

[blr_p]

Hah, are you predicting Congress will win the 2014 general election ?

AH movement therefore comes to nothing according to what you said ie the ones that won't vote. The larger this section the easier it is for parties to win, the one with he most money will do it because there are fewer people to bribe relatively speaking.

If Congress wins again despite doing anything will that be the end of AH ? hehe too early to say.

 

[Srirama]

Lets make google come to power LOL :rofl:

 

[Superbad]

Hah, are you predicting Congress will win the 2014 general election ?

AH movement therefore comes to nothing according to what you said ie the ones that won't vote. The larger this section the easier it is for parties to win, the one with he most money will do it because there are fewer people to bribe relatively speaking.

If Congress wins again despite doing anything will that be the end of AH ? hehe too early to say.

the statistics revealed that there was not a lot of % difference in the voting (as a whole).

it was pure math where congress converted the % gain of votes to elected seats whereas BJP won of those seats were more comprehensive victories.

 

[kippu]

it will be a miracle if congress wins again ..its been 10 years , definite incumbency factor should kick in i suppose

 

[vivek.krishnan]

yes, they will win again. The mindset of the people is that BJP is useless, they are extremist, but this is not true of all. Also regarding money, white or black, they found that Congress was recieving more money in cash than in cheque, while it was the reverse for BJP. LOL.

 

[avi]

Seen enough of BJP in K'taka. Read somewhere that it is most corrupted state gov till date.

 

[vivek.krishnan]

Seen enough of BJP in K'taka. Read somewhere that it is most corrupted state gov till date.

Please visit Maharashtra, my dear friend. I am pretty sure, the stuff that happens here will dwarf the rest of India, maybe except for Delhi.

 

[Superbad]

Seen enough of BJP in K'taka. Read somewhere that it is most corrupted state gov till date.

check maharashtra you will lose count for the scams done in maharashtra by the congress and the partially congress.

even people feel like meh when they hear about a scam by congress . they are like " dont tell me the same old news. whats new? "

ans : "new scam "

 

[pauldmps]

Seen enough of BJP in K'taka. Read somewhere that it is most corrupted state gov till date.

Wrong!

It is indeed Jharkhand. The biggest corrupt state in India.

 

[avi]

^Hmm...My bad. But contributions to corruption from BJP is indeed great. [K'taka]

 

[Superbad]

You seem to forgot madhu koda.
Ex cm for jharkhand.
He amassed wealth equal to the total budget of some african nations.
So much so that he had even invested that money in those african nations to acquire mines.
It is like if congress does this it is expected and accepted (forgotten) but when someone else does it you magnify it multiple times to keep talking about it for long.

 

[HailStonE]

You seem to forgot madhu koda.

Ex cm for jharkhand.

He amassed wealth equal to the total budget of some african nations.

So much so that he had even invested that money in those african nations to acquire mines.

It is like if congress does this it is expected and accepted (forgotten) but when someone else does it you magnify it multiple times to keep talking about it for long.

Madhu Koda was a member of BJP & he left it to contest independently later when refused ticket.. So had he not left BJP he would have done the same thing & people would have seen more clearly that even BJP as a party has some very serious corrupt members & they also have the capacity to beat Congress when it comes to pure unadulterated corruption & SCAMS...

Its hilarious to think that BJP would be any better than Congress in amassing huge wealth... Those 22 members who voted for them (till now) should know this. Also their history with communal violence is an open book to everyone which actually shadows their corrupt intentions altogether...

 

[TEUser2K1]

As of now, both BJP and Congress are corrupt to core.

I am all for those interests Anna represents, but till date the show he put up is not up to the mark. Not because he is corrupt, but because, he is incapable. Its not his fault.

I don't expect all good things to happen suddenly unless a benevolent dictator take over our country's control, which again is next to impossible.

So, will anything change ? No.

To change the current scenario, not only India, but all over the world, the fuel behind human thought engine should change oil. Greed solely should not drive or direct anything.