Apple Announces Redesigned Mac Mini With M4 and M4 Pro Chips

rsaeon said:
The people who say they use a Mac mini as their main computer — we're saying it's a non-issue. I mean, it's just two people here in this thread, but that's what we feel. I would say @superczar represents a typical mac user more than myself, because I have more systems running than I have plates or cups.
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How you use your Mac is not my business. Defending a stupid design choice saying 'we do not turn off our Macs' is what I am arguing about. A stupid design choice is a stupid design choice, there is no other way around it. I can also say that I have more 'apple products' in my home than I have cups or plates and I am fully invested into Apple ecosystem. Have Apple One plan for entire family for which I am paying a lot every year. Yet, I am calling spade a spade. Just because I do not turn off my MBP does not mean I cope with stupid design choice and support the company.
rsaeon said:
Defending/copium/iSheep — this is inflammatory language and it's puzzling. The power button could be anywhere, we just don't care because we don't use it?
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It is what it is. What's worse than a stupid design choice? iSheep supporting it and suggesting to place Mac mini upside down if it is a problem. What is even bigger problem? People doing chest thumping that they never turn their PCs off when not in use. This is pathetic at a whole different level. We turn lights and fans off when we move out of room and here I see people bragging about keeping PC continuously on for decades. If it is due to running some thing on it, it’s okay. But if it is because you just don’t want to turn it off, Sorry to say this, this is bad. Make a habit of keeping it off when not in use. Hope you turn water tap off when not in use. Or do you just keep it running because you can?

You should see how this is a problem for some in studios (Mac mini farm vertically placed on racks) where the power is mandatorily turned off every night to save costs. Yes, there was a discussion on reddit and they are looking for some kind of clicker for each or they may have to install everything upside down negating the use of aluminum shell as passive heat spreader. :rolleyes:

PS: I really hope brands making PC cabinets take this as a hint and put power button under the cabinet. :D
 
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See, this is what I mean, you're incredibly vocal about a decision that has absolutely no bearing in your day-to-day. And it isn't something new, I've been seeing this for 20+ years now and it's puzzling.

Maybe I was like you in the past, I'm not sure.

rsaeon said:
The power button could be anywhere, we just don't care because we don't use it
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I just remembered, I accidentally turned off my mini once while fumbling with the cables. Once, in the last two years. So I guess I care a little and the bottom-mounted power button is now an improvement.

desiibond said:
here I see people bragging about keeping PC continuously on for decades
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Idling/sleeping at 10W is Rs 876 per year. Leaving a 20W led batten on is Rs 5 per day.

At some point, the convenience outweighs the cost.
 
rsaeon said:
See, this is what I mean, you're incredibly vocal about a decision that has absolutely no bearing in your day-to-day. And it isn't something new, I've been seeing this for 20+ years now and it's puzzling.

Maybe I was like you in the past, I'm not sure.

I just remembered, I accidentally turned off my mini once while fumbling with the cables. Once, in the last two years. So I guess I care a little and the bottom-mounted power button is now an improvement.

Idling/sleeping at 10W is Rs 876 per year. Leaving a 20W led batten on is Rs 5 per day.

At some point, the convenience outweighs the cost.
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How about turning off the LED batten as well when you are out of room (like how I do). Hope now you understand why I am using the terms iSheep or Copium.

Saying this again. It's a bad design choice that Apple made. Supporting that is classic iSheep mentality. Wasting power/energy and bragging about it is even worse.

My point is simple: Do not preach 'we should not turn computers off' lessons. This is something that iSheep does to blindly support Apple and it is utterly stupid.
 
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Broadly declaring continuous energy usage as waste is short-sighted.

For example, continuous lighting in staircases is safety issue. Some light switches are inconveniently placed and are left on because otherwise one would have to fumble in the dark, tripping over clutter. Some other lights are on timers. In each case, the convenience outweighs the cost.

Expressing shock about spending Rs 5 a day on a light isn't going to have a meaningful impact on your life.

Forget lights. From the start of the month, there have been 426 hours until today, the 18th, 6pm. The AC has been on for 412 of them. Top floor, no shade makes it an easy convenience vs cost decision:
 

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rsaeon said:
Broadly declaring continuous energy usage as waste is short-sighted.

For example, continuous lighting in staircases is safety issue. Some light switches are inconveniently placed and are left on because otherwise one would have to fumble in the dark, tripping over clutter. Some other lights are on timers. In each case, the convenience outweighs the cost.

Expressing shock about spending Rs 5 a day on a light isn't going to have a meaningful impact on your life.

Forget lights. From the start of the month, there have been 426 hours until today, the 18th, 6pm. The AC has been on for 412 of them. Top floor, no shade makes it an easy convenience vs cost decision:
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Wow. you are comparing safety lights to keeping a PC on when not in use. I did not know that it will be a hazard if PC is turned off. If this is the case, yes, you are correct about keeping it on even when not in use.
 
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rsaeon said:
Broadly declaring continuous energy usage as waste is short-sighted.

For example, continuous lighting in staircases is safety issue. Some light switches are inconveniently placed and are left on because otherwise one would have to fumble in the dark, tripping over clutter. Some other lights are on timers. In each case, the convenience outweighs the cost.

Expressing shock about spending Rs 5 a day on a light isn't going to have a meaningful impact on your life.

Forget lights. From the start of the month, there have been 426 hours until today, the 18th, 6pm. The AC has been on for 412 of them. Top floor, no shade makes it an easy convenience vs cost decision:
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What app is this?
 
desiibond said:
Wow. you are comparing safety lights to keeping a PC on when not in use.
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Mac mini uses 1 rupee of electricity when it is left to sleep/idle for 24 hours.

I don't even get a gol gappa for that price anymore. It's 2 for Rs 10 or 5 for Rs 20 here.

DBot said:
What app is this?
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That's the TP-Link Tapo app, it's monitoring a 16A smart plug I have connected to the AC. It's very accurate, I did some quick testing here:

rsaeon

Post in thread 'Smart Plug'

tr27 said:
Does the Amazon plug not have these features?
Click to expand...
anmolbhard004 said:
are they better than wipro ones ? I have currently 8 plugs from wipro need 2 more so thinking of getting tplink one now
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rockyo27 said:
How accurate are these. Better than these wipro and other tuya/smartlife based wrt features and accuracy?
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I haven't used any of the app based plugs. For the Polycab ones, I flashed Tasmota without ever setting them up.

These TP-Link Tapo ones are just as accurate as the calibrated Tasmota ones.

It's very impressive, I tested it just now at a small load and at a >1kW load:
  • Like
 
desiibond said:
Peak load for milliseconds during boot health check is similar to PC running without shutting down for hours? Also, a Mac takes 7-8W during boot up. The whole boot process itself is under a minute, even if you think Mac runs on peak load during entire boot process.
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Its a fair bit more than milliseconds.. My other desktop (12400/3070) pulls a fair bit of power 100W for at least a few minutes.
But all of that is besides the point. The average per capita consumption of electricity is 3200 kwh so an extra 4 units a year (0.5%365*24/1000) is the equivalent of splitting hairs.

I moved away from shutting down computers as far back as mid 2000s . It just does not fit my use case and personally I find it completely archaic.
I dont shut down my windows laptop either although every now & then, it ****s me up for that by threatening to burn my bag while its supposedly asleep :laughing:

rsaeon said:
The people who say they use a Mac mini as their main computer — we're saying it's a non-issue. I mean, it's just two people here in this thread, but that's what we feel. I would say @superczar represents a typical mac user more than myself, because I have more systems running than I have plates or cups.

Defending/copium/iSheep — this is inflammatory language and it's puzzling. The power button could be anywhere, we just don't care because we don't use it?
Click to expand...
I am not really a typical Mac user either. I have way too many PCs with a fair mix of Linux (2) , Windows (3) and Mac (4) in the household.

I dont manually shut down any of them - and unlike the windows systems where I still do need to reach out for the power button every now & then, the rest simply do not need that intervention so the location of the power button becomes a moot point.
Would it have been better to have the power button on the back - perhaps
Does it really matter.. No.

Some may read it as a defense of Apple - It isn't. It's just a response since I was amazed by the triviality of this nitpick .
I would have said the same about someone moaning about ethernet port on windows laptops being moved from the rear to the sides (yes, most win laptops used to have it on the rear end)

desiibond said:
My point is simple: Do not preach 'we should not turn computers off' lessons. This is something that iSheep does to blindly support Apple and it is utterly stupid.
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Thats plain ridiculous.
This has nothing to do with apple.
I removed windows from my Legion Go by end of month 1 and shifted it to Bazzite (Linux) - To repeat, Linux.. and even though that means it needs to run games in translated mode, I am very happy I did..
And thats Purely because it can handle standby and resume gracefully.. Something that windows simply could not handle
And i havent shut it down since ..

I could in fact argue that preaching to shut down /restart computers 30-50 times a month ( and wasting your precious time doing that ,/ reopening all apps and docs and what not) , is something that only a windows fanboi would do
To defend the inscrutable inability of the OS to handle standby and resume gracefully..
Something every single OS sans windows has been capable of doing for ages now :masked:
 
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superczar said:
I could in fact argue that preaching to shut down /restart computers 30-50 times a month ( and wasting your precious time doing that ,/ reopening all apps and docs and what not) , is something that only a windows fanboi would do
To defend the inscrutable inability of the OS to handle standby and resume gracefully..
Something every single OS sans windows has been capable of doing for ages now :masked:
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Kinda ridiculous too.
With SSD these days, it hardly takes any time to start and stop. I use laptop, desktop, windows and linux (strongly prefer linux). And shutdown all of them.
Power outage wont cause issues too.

Windows does resume fine, i have never had trouble with that.
Generally linux drivers unfortunately can have issues, Nvidia specifically needed a configuration to make it work which i did not know for some time. But its fine after that.

Anyway, since this is such a small box, i assume one could just lift it up and press the button to boot up.
Still kinda lame boneheaded decision imo. Those who dont restart are not affected if button is placed where it should be. Why force it on all ?
Seems similar to using a single button Apple mouse 2 decades ago which we laughed at in college.

Anyway, i dont care, wont ever use it.
 
Tracer_Bullet said:
Kinda ridiculous too.
With SSD these days, it hardly takes any time to start and stop. I use laptop, desktop, windows and linux (strongly prefer linux). And shutdown all of them.
Power outage wont cause issues too.

Windows does resume fine, i have never had trouble with that.
Generally linux drivers unfortunately can have issues, Nvidia specifically needed a configuration to make it work which i did not know for some time. But its fine after that.

Anyway, since this is such a small box, i assume one could just lift it up and press the button to boot up.
Still kinda lame boneheaded decision imo. Those who dont restart are not affected if button is placed where it should be. Why force it on all ?
Seems similar to using a single button Apple mouse 2 decades ago which we laughed at in college.

Anyway, i dont care, wont ever use it.
Click to expand...

A strong preference for Standby/resume is not necessarily for saving the startup time.
It’s hard to believe we are discussing this in 2024 but here goes nothing:
Once you get used to consistent and 100% reliable standby/resume, you simply do not close your work/ active windows / sheets/whatever you were doing when you are stepping away.
You close the lid , return after an hour or next morning.. or after 3 days.. and resume exactly where you left off within 2 seconds.

The fact that bazzite even exists in the first place is a telling remark on how well windows handles standby / resume as against linux.
Think about it for a moment- you have a custom built distribution with a large user base built solely for windows handhelds
That the end user is going to use for running windows games.

yet a very large number of these users choose to delete windows, install another OS altogether and then use a translation layer to run windows games..
and the sole reason to do that is to get standby/resume working well - which can be a dealbreaker otherwise on a portable gaming machine.

PS: Its not for piracy reasons - its a lot more difficult to install ahem games on bazzite as against windows


Tracer_Bullet said:
Anyway, i dont care, wont ever use it.
Click to expand...
OS preference is of course , a choice.
But youd be overlooking a system that you’d be hard pressed to match even after spending 2X/3X the money or more.
For a change, Apple has started building VFM systems - arguably so after 2020 but it was debatable
This one otoh aces the price /value equation - to the extent that the rants on the interwebs are now largely about the power button placement :laughing:
 
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superczar said:
I could in fact argue that preaching to shut down /restart computers 30-50 times a month ( and wasting your precious time doing that ,/ reopening all apps and docs and what not) , is something that only a windows fanboi would do
To defend the inscrutable inability of the OS to handle standby and resume gracefully..
Something every single OS sans windows has been capable of doing for ages now :masked:
Click to expand...
OMFG. This shows how woeful your knowledge of both OSes is.
Mac
All apps open at same state even after restart just by selecting this option. I was typing this comment, added screenshot here and I restarted my Mac with this option. When it restarted, this browser tab was at same point and I just continued to type. I am shocked that you did not know this and you gave such a long gyaan on OSes and resume etc. All talk, no substance? I have been using Macs from 2012 and been using Windows since 1995 and I do not go around acting like I designed these OSes.
1731979603899.jpeg

Windows
My office laptop goes into full hibernation state every single night (forced), a policy applied by IT. Every morning, it boots up and I start using every single app that was open when it was hibernated. It has been like this for years and till date, faced zero issues. To do this for thousands of laptops day in day out and not reverse the policy shows that Windows has indeed solid hibernation and wake stability now.

So, your logic of person having to open every app again turned out to be speculation.

Seriously, the amount of blind support you are giving just to stand by a stupid design decision qualifies you for iSheep of the year award. Next time you come into such discussion, learn a bit more about MacOS and Windows.
superczar said:
This one otoh aces the price /value equation - to the extent that the rants on the interwebs are now largely about the power button placement :laughing:
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There are many long term hard core apple users who are calling this out. It's only the 'I wanna look like hardcore Apple user and fanboy' that are defending this to show their allegiance to Apple.

I am fully into apple ecosystem (3 iPhones at home, watch, AirPods, apple tv, iPad, MacBook Pro, Apple One family subscription) and I would one day replace my desktop with Mac mini too. Your logic that people are envious about Mac mini and are nitpicking is classic iSheep argument. Tell me why someone like me who is a long time apple user is complaining about this? Is it out of jealousy?
 
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That has never worked reliably for me across multiple monitors and mission control. It's worked fine on a MacBook Pro with either a single thunderbolt or HDMI monitor but not on my M1 mini with additional displays.

This has to be said, but it doesn't sound like you have much experience with macOS on a desktop.

I'm not even working here:

IMG_20241119_071428_139.jpg


But they have never reopened in the way I have them set up, it just doesn't work with multiple monitors and it's a known issue the last time I looked it up.

But then again, that doesn't fit your iSheep narrative, does it? Whatever gives you life, I guess.
 
Though I agree windows laptop sleep issue is mess, but saying 100% reliable, consistent in mac is far fetched and fanboyism.

Personally had couple of incidents where m1 mac was very hot when it was taken out of the back bag especially after a long travel. It could be some rogue app, but still it caused cpu to spin when it supposedly sleeping.

Just Google M1 Mac sleep issue or getting got during sleep. Its not only me having issues.
 
desiibond said:
Tell me why someone like me who is a long time apple user is complaining about this?
Click to expand...

Persecution fetish? Who knows. Whenever you speak about Apple, it feels like you're in an arranged marriage not of your liking. If I had such strong feelings, I wouldn't be anywhere near an Apple product.

I actually do have such strong feelings, but for HP. I haven't bought a single HP product after they prematurely dropped support for the Veer and TouchPad, both of which I had bought on launch and really liked.

But with you and Apple, it's puzzling. You seem to dislike Apple and their decisions an order of magnitude more than I or anyone else who may not disagree with it. So your ranting and name-calling ends up falling flat because we just don't care that much? It works for us, and life goes on.

8GB >100K laptop? Not for me, move on. 2TB upgrade for 80K? Not for me, move on. Find an alternative, get stuff done.

I mean if you want to be upset then you do you.
 
rsaeon said:
That has never worked reliably for me across multiple monitors and mission control. It's worked fine on a MacBook Pro with either a single thunderbolt or HDMI monitor but not on my M1 mini with additional displays.
Click to expand...

rsaeon said:
This has to be said, but it doesn't sound like you have much experience with macOS on a desktop.

I'm not even working here:

View attachment 214294

But they have never reopened in the way I have them set up, it just doesn't work with multiple monitors and it's a known issue the last time I looked it up
Click to expand...

rsaeon said:
That has never worked reliably for me across multiple monitors and mission control. It's worked fine on a MacBook Pro with either a single thunderbolt or HDMI monitor but not on my M1 mini with additional displays.

This has to be said, but it doesn't sound like you have much experience with macOS on a desktop.

I'm not even working here:

View attachment 214294

But they have never reopened in the way I have them set up, it just doesn't work with multiple monitors and it's a known issue the last time I looked it up.

But then again, that doesn't fit your iSheep narrative, does it? Whatever gives you life, I guess.
Click to expand...
Wow. I am rather not surprised that you do not have a solution for this, something that many hard core users have. FYI, this was more of a problem for those who are on the move and keep connecting and disconnecting from external displays (connected dock). Moreover, even when waking up from sleep, I have seen windows readjusting (bug in OS) in some cases so your argument has no steam. Window snip is still inconsistent and erratic in MacOS, it is so much better in Windows. Even in Windows, there are ways you can get the layout back after coming from sleep/hibernate.

Coming to your darlingOS, there are two things here.
1. Keeping the Spaces layout intact.
2. Keeping window snap position intact.

For both, there is a solution. Actually, there are multiple solutions. Given how you were behaving, all I say is 'Figure it out'. I know how to keep the spaces layout intact and window snaps back in position after reboot. You first said that you have to reopen all the apps after reboot. When I gave you option, you now said that windows are out of position. Clearly, you are the one with lack of knowledge. And geez, that layout in your screenshot is ugly af and you clearly need lessons on arranging your windows/spaces.

So, I showed you solution to keep the apps open after reboot and I told you that there is solution for getting snap layout back after reboot. Take my suggestion and
  1. Understand the OS.
  2. Try to find solution for problems. Keeping the device on 365/7 is not solution. It is a workaround.
  3. Stop blindly supporting Apple.
I am shocked that you are doing all this just to support pathetic design choice. Is there really that much need to hold on to ego and blindly support just so that you can win an argument?
rsaeon said:
Persecution fetish? Who knows. Whenever you speak about Apple, it feels like you're in an arranged marriage not of your liking. If I had such strong feelings, I wouldn't be anywhere near an Apple product.

I actually do have such strong feelings, but for HP. I haven't bought a single HP product after they prematurely dropped support for the Veer and TouchPad, both of which I had bought on launch and really liked.

But with you and Apple, it's puzzling. You seem to dislike Apple and their decisions an order of magnitude more than I or anyone else who may not disagree with it. So your ranting and name-calling ends up falling flat because we just don't care that much? It works for us, and life goes on.

8GB >100K laptop? Not for me, move on. 2TB upgrade for 80K? Not for me, move on. Find an alternative, get stuff done.

I mean if you want to be upset then you do you.
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Bhai, if you really want to still support that stupid design choice, let it be. There is nothing to discuss with you as you lack knowledge of the OS, knowledge of hardware design and you lack will to call a bad design bad. Need one final clarification from you. Are you an Apple employee?

To both of you, you have made enough fool of yourself. If I were you, I would stop the argument here and learn more about MacOS and its app ecosystem.
Tracer_Bullet said:
Kinda ridiculous too.
With SSD these days, it hardly takes any time to start and stop. I use laptop, desktop, windows and linux (strongly prefer linux). And shutdown all of them.
Power outage wont cause issues too.

Windows does resume fine, i have never had trouble with that.
Generally linux drivers unfortunately can have issues, Nvidia specifically needed a configuration to make it work which i did not know for some time. But its fine after that.
Click to expand...
+1 This is still a good practice for saving energy more than anything else.
Tracer_Bullet said:
Anyway, since this is such a small box, i assume one could just lift it up and press the button to boot up.
Still kinda lame boneheaded decision imo. Those who dont restart are not affected if button is placed where it should be. Why force it on all ?
Seems similar to using a single button Apple mouse 2 decades ago which we laughed at in college.
Click to expand...
This exactly is my point. Just because some never turn their Mac off does not mean everyone has to follow this stupid practice and waste energy. For every product, Apple does this stupid design decision. Think of it as their kaala teekha to avoid buri nazar. Someone in their VP team is very superstitious :D
 
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There is something wrong here. You seem to be under the impression that I have a problem with something — I don't.

To be blunt:

desiibond said:
Wow. I am rather not surprised that you do not have a solution for this
Click to expand...

It's not a problem for me. It's a known issue for other desktop users. The issue doesn't affect me because I don't shutdown my computer.

desiibond said:
it is so much better in Windows.
Click to expand...

Don't care, don't use windows as my main OS.

desiibond said:
And geez, that layout in your screenshot is ugly af and you clearly need lessons on arranging your windows/spaces.
Click to expand...

It's not a layout. Familiarize yourself with Mission Control. Maybe you don't realize it's a desktop management feature of macOS?

desiibond said:
Stop blindly supporting Apple.
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Nobody's supporting Apple. I just think your complaining is puzzling. And your insistent labeling of anyone who disagrees with you as iSheep/copium is hilarious pitiable.

desiibond said:
Is there really that much need to hold on to ego and blindly support just so that you can win an argument?
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Again, no one is arguing. It's just you. Remember, none of these are issues for me. They're issues for you.

desiibond said:
I know how to keep the spaces layout intact and window snaps back in position after reboot. You first said that you have to reopen all the apps after reboot. When I gave you option, you now said that windows are out of position.
Click to expand...

I said it doesn't work reliably on desktops. It works fine on Macbooks. It's a known issue. And because it's a known issue, Mac mini users don't prefer to shutdown their computer. But then you're not a Mac mini user, are you? Otherwise you'd know.

desiibond said:
Try to find solution for problems. Keeping the device on 365/7 is not solution. It is a workaround.
Click to expand...

I don't have any problems. I'm happy with my desktop never being turned off. I don't know why that triggers you so much. Are gol gappas expensive in your area? Don't answer that, it's rhetorical question.

desiibond said:
Clearly, you are the one with lack of knowledge.
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stupid.jpeg

desiibond said:
Need one final clarification from you. Are you an Apple employee?
Click to expand...

Sure, why not? Let's get the employee discount and stock options. And access to the cafeteria.

Wait, maybe you don't like discounts or money or food.

That'll explain why you'd think not being an Apple employee is a good thing.

desiibond said:
  1. Understand the OS.
Click to expand...

That's just insulting. https://techenclave.com/threads/the-anti-showoff-thread.110103/page-28#post-2337992
 
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