I would like proofs of the claims you made highlighted in bold. Please don't argue just for the sake of it. Assert your arguments with proper facts.
2-year-old accidentally kills his mom in Wal-Mart!!!
- Thread starter Sumit05
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BTW, I was thinking about destroying my college building (for destroying my studies). So I am thinking of buying chocolate bombs this diwali. Getting hands-on dynamite is anyways difficult. I would only need the recipe by @Lord Nemesis to convert it into a powerful one.
Really, And where have you provided the proof for your assertions? I don't see any in your posts at least.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list
The above data is a bit dated and data for some countries is missing, but I don't think the there would be any deviation in the overall trends.
As per the data listed above, US ranks number 1 in gun ownership with an average of 88 guns/100 people, Yet, countries with ownerships ranks that are way down in the list at rank 74 (8.1 guns /100 people), rank 88 ( 6.2 guns/100), rank 92 (5.8 guns/100) are at the top in fatalities. In fact, as per the list, US ranks 28 in that aspect.
BTW, India is not that far off in ownership rank from the countries with high gun fatalities and Pak is much higher ranked, unfortunately, fatalty data for Pak is not provided in the list.
Fire crackers are just toned down form of the weapons used in wars by Chinese and Indians in old times. Its not really difficult to make more powerful versions using them as the base and it is done quite a lot. Crude bombs are often made with the same stuff either my mixing the power themselves or recycling it off crackers.
In fact, when I was doing my M.Tech in UP, there was a an attack with crude bombs on a house in the village area where my campus was located. I was actually walking very close to the place at the time. I later go to know that it was apparently a revenge attack and the bombs which were powerful enough to damage the house (and kill if anybody was inside at the time) and they were made by an uneducated teenager by recycling the powder from fire crackers and along with small nails and metal filings.
Also, I hope you realise that your post about blowing up your college is stupid regardless of the intent, and is enough to land you in trouble with law enforcement. People have been arrested and interrogated over such stupid posts made on forums or social networking sites.
What proof do you want? That there has been numerous school shootings in the US?
Also do you need to compare US with countries like Sierra Leone, Honduras, Guatemala, Gaza strip? Those are terrorist or criminal countries mostly due to drugs & firearm trades. US is supposed to be better as it is more civilized country.
If that is your comparison, then US wouldn't be even at 28th rank but at much lower as they haven't included countries like Somalia, Afghanistan & Syria.
Any 5 yr old can get the humor of my post. I guess you can't.
And school shootings prove what exactly? Only that there are irresponsible parents in US. How many hundreds if such incidents have happened that involve guns? I mean guns are the least of our worries if you are talking about fatalities caused by irresponsibility Sorry, but I don't see there being any direct correlation between guns and violent behavior.
What about the suicidal maniacs who have killed without using guns. There are dozens of other house hold tools and stuff that are more accessible than guns that can cause accidents or even can be used as weapons in as deadly a manner as guns.
The difference is that when a gun is involved, it is automatically given more hype than when it is because of some other tool. If a kid accidentally kills his parents with a nail gun or something, it won't even make it past the local news. When its a gun that is involved, you will see it in bold all over the world.
And yeah, if you are trying to say that I should not compare US to those places because there is violence there, then my point is already proven. If a place with a fraction of the per ca pita gun ownership compared to US has more percentage of fatalities, then clearly ownership of guns is not a factor at all and its the people and conditions that violence depends on.
Please.... get your brain checked if you really think that what you typed earlier is alright to be typed. It doesn't matter what your context was and what your true intentions were, but making statements like "I am thinking about destroying my college building" can land you in serious trouble. Over last few months, several people have landed in lock ups and interrogated for making "humorous" statements like that on-line and you will not find that humorous at all. Be careful about what you type online.
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Oracle
The gun lobby has been successful in defending against attempts to take away guns.
Its not about needing anyone to carry guns, much simpler.
Can you do it or not. That is all the gun lobby fights for.
axis.meister
Discoverer
Nail guns have a different primary purpose, ie. to punch nails into furniture. The primary purpose of guns is to kill or threathen to kill people, both of which are illegal. The destructive power that guns have, mean that they should be regulated and only people who are trained and can be accountable for the use of guns should have access to them legally.
I have lived in US, you can buy a gun at bloody Walmart!! Even though I never tried to buy one, I was told by friends there that it requires very little documentation and absolutely no proof of training. If you dont find that ridiculous, then you probably want to live in Wild Wild West, which might be okay for you since you carry a scythe and most probably nobody would want to mess with you
manoja2k
Forerunner
I still don't see the logic of comparing fire crackers and guns. BTW, fire crackers are controlled items even in India. Assuming that these are as bad as guns, how does it relate to the idea of restricting the sale of guns. It's like saying if there are two criminals in the neighbourhood then either arrest both of them or not at all. In my opinion restricting the sale of guns will not stop criminals from acquiring those neither the crime rate will decrease substantially. But it will help innocents from being converted into accidental criminals.
The point I am trying to make is that if things that are as equally deadly as guns are available and easily accessible, then it makes the whole point of banning guns on the grounds that they are deadly moot.
A guns primary purpose for being available to public is self-defense, not for going postal and end up on a killing rampage. Self-Defense (with appropriate amount of force) is not illegal. In fact, in most cases, the presence of a gun itself can avoid or defuse a hazardous situation and even if it escalates, you have a tool handy to preserve self. In fact, people have used what ever is handy to defend themselves when required even in under non-availability of guns, but considering that the criminal will almost always have access to a gun, having a gun yourself at least puts you in a negotiating position.
I am all for regulating availability and usage of guns so that irresponsible idiots don't have access to them (To be honest, it doesn't really take a gun in the hands of such people to case harm to self and others). But banning guns on the pretext that they are deadly is nothing more than self deceit and accomplishes nothing. There are vastly bigger ways that irresponsibility is causing fatalities and the fatalities from irresponsible ownership of a gun doesn't even come close to making a dent on that even in the absence of guns.
In fact, if I extend the same logic to vehicles, close of 90% of the current vehicle owners in India should never be allowed anywhere near a vehicle.
A guns primary purpose for being available to public is self-defense, not for going postal and end up on a killing rampage. Self-Defense (with appropriate amount of force) is not illegal. In fact, in most cases, the presence of a gun itself can avoid or defuse a hazardous situation and even if it escalates, you have a tool handy to preserve self. In fact, people have used what ever is handy to defend themselves when required even in under non-availability of guns, but considering that the criminal will almost always have access to a gun, having a gun yourself at least puts you in a negotiating position.
I am all for regulating availability and usage of guns so that irresponsible idiots don't have access to them (To be honest, it doesn't really take a gun in the hands of such people to case harm to self and others). But banning guns on the pretext that they are deadly is nothing more than self deceit and accomplishes nothing. There are vastly bigger ways that irresponsibility is causing fatalities and the fatalities from irresponsible ownership of a gun doesn't even come close to making a dent on that even in the absence of guns.
In fact, if I extend the same logic to vehicles, close of 90% of the current vehicle owners in India should never be allowed anywhere near a vehicle.
Thats what I've been saying all this time. I want nukes for my self defense from Kim Jong Un.
trust me, Indians are much better drivers.
Thats what I've been saying all this time. I want nukes for my self defense from Kim Jong Un.
trust me, Indians are much better drivers.
That's exactly why every country wants nukes. When only one country has powerful weapons leaving the other with no ability to defend or retaliate, you will be completely at their mercy. When every country has them, no country dares to make a move. That is exactly how full fledged wars have been prevented.. through stalemate.
If public should not have guns, tell me one reason why our country should have an army and even if we have one why should they have access to guns just because our enemies have them? Why not let them defend the country from china and pak the same way you are expecting the public to defend themselves from criminals?
For those who want to say that they are trained and hence special, gun related negligence has lead to a number of fatalities among police and armed forces as well and there have been suicidal maniacs as well.
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Exactly, I dont want my safety at the mercy of police and military(even after paying boats loads of money in taxes to the govt). I simply dont trust them to saving me from Dear Leader Kim Jong Un.
@Lord Nemesis Are you part of the NRA? I gave you data and you start comparing guns with a bathroom soap. Maybe you should have your head checked. Why do you pick on shitty places like Pakistan? What about Japan that I had posted.
Anyways, it is useless arguing with folks who would want to argue just for argument's sake? If the way forward is to arm everyone with sub-machine guns then it is a banana republic.
Anyways, it is useless arguing with folks who would want to argue just for argument's sake? If the way forward is to arm everyone with sub-machine guns then it is a banana republic.
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Oracle
Try pulling off what you said with people that own guns and you will be rudely told to butt out!
The joke here is we are talking about taking away rights of people in another country. Any effect for us ? no. But we like to lecture others.
I have lived in US, you can buy a gun at bloody Walmart!! Even though I never tried to buy one, I was told by friends there that it requires very little documentation and absolutely no proof of training. If you dont find that ridiculous, then you probably want to live in Wild Wild West, which might be okay for you since you carry a scythe and most probably nobody would want to mess with you
Yea, even I remember walking into a Walmart and seeing the guns stacked neatly...! LOL. They looked quite good. Having a gun is garnering a huge responsibility on ones self. And sadly, we Indians cannot do that. Having a gun means being respectable to others, controlling ones anger, and not being idiotic and stupid when dealing with people "around you"; which again we Indians grossly fail at. I did my college from UP, and a lot of the hostel guys used to carry a "kutta" (local made gun which uses a .308 or .22 slug, running a random / non - rifled bore; and fired only once), and act all big and Django. Imagine what would happen when we Indians get access to real weapons. See what happens at weddings, it is hilarious. It is not ridiculous that Americans can buy weapons when they choose to, it is free-will and shows responsibility on a pan-national level. They are ready to be mature and handle fire arms. I saw guns since childhood (all licensed), and definitely respect them and understand how they are operated. Of course all bundles have bad apples (ie: morons), and we see that in the news...! But gun law liberty <> www....!
Absolutely.
All Indians who are granted a vehicle license should also undergo a psychological test for mental stability and normal frame of mind when under anger, or overtaken, or honked at. Probably the worst drivers in the world.
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Oracle
But when i asked for some sparklers to celebrate 4h of july they said it was illegal (!)
Asked if there was some secret code or handshake, could they do a brown paper bag under the counter sort of thing. Promised i would not give them to kids.
NO!
So yeah, i like the way we celebrate Diwali in THIS country.
Oh Please... I have also given data showing that the availability of guns has got nothing to do with violence or high rate of fatalities. In fact the most violent countries in the world have less public access to guns compared to US.
And I don't get why do you not want to compare countries where there are less number of guns, but high fatality rates. I see no reason except because it inconveniences you by invalidating your claims.
What was your point about Japan? Are you telling me that there are no deaths caused by negligence or accidents at all in Japan except for the 2 or 3 caused by guns. You are talking as if guns are the only factor in causing accidental deaths.
What percentage of deaths in US are caused by negligence with a weapon compared to total accidental deaths caused by negligence?
People who want to be violent will be violent with or without guns. People who are negligent have always caused harm to self and others and guns are nowhere close to being a top culprit in either case.
It is actually amusing to see how deluded and self deceiving people are about this. There are 100's of ways people are dying everyday either because of violence, or own or others negligence and people talk as if banning guns would somehow magically fix all that. We are living in a country where protests are being carried out just because the Govt wants to discourage traffic violations and hence rising fines for drunken driving, speeding and signal jumping etc. which have been a leading cause of accidental deaths in many countries and people here have the audacity to go judgemental about the availability of guns to public in US. What a farce it is.
axis.meister
Discoverer
Irony just shot itself in its face with a legally procured AR15 after reading your post.
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