26/11: Kasab guilty; Ansari, Sabauddin Shaikh acquitted

[neoronin]

I hope there are no issues now and would like if he is hanged in public.

Why? So that the video can be recorded and can be used to educate more upcoming promising Jihadists to wage war against India?

Let him be hanged quick. AFAIK, this may take years. In the middle, some human rights commission would start gathering support for converting the death sentence into life, Medha Patkar would go on a fast, Arundhati Roy would right an article highlighting on why we should release him and rehabilitate him, Shashi Tharoor will tweet about him, more relatives of the dead would forgive him & TOI would hold a candle for him and sing "Aman Ki Ashaa".

It would be really unfortunate if he gets a death sentence. It should have been the legendary "liquid oxygen" treatment as broadway mentioned.

Let's take it a notch further and let us entomb him alive. Process as follows

1) Insert catheter into stomach for direct feeding.
2) Attach catheters to carry waste away from body.
3) Attach an Oxygen mask.
4) Immerse him into a container filled with Formaldehyde.
5) Close container and enjoy as prisoner lives a natural life.

This horrible method was described in detail in one of Matthew Reilly's book.

 

[Renegade]

Let's take it a notch further and let us entomb him alive. Process as follows

1) Insert catheter into stomach for direct feeding.

2) Attach catheters to carry waste away from body.

3) Attach an Oxygen mask.

4) Immerse him into a container filled with Formaldehyde.

5) Close container and enjoy as prisoner lives a natural life.

This horrible method was described in detail in one of Matthew Reilly's book.

Or the alternative is to hand him on the platter what he came here for.

1) Kill as many as you can - Check

2) Get killed trying - Check

Lets help him make it even better than what he planned for. Make it a swift and painless death.

 

[neoronin]

Or the alternative is to hand him on the platter what he came here for.
1) Kill as many as you can - Check
2) Get killed trying - Check

Lets help him make it even better than what he planned for. Make it a swift and painless death.

A swift and a painless death is too good for him. Even though it sounds barbaric, sometimes I really want some good ol' medieval justice. Gone are the days of death by the Hanging Drawing & Quartering, Burning, Boiling, Sawing & Ling Chi.

 

[sarang]

Totally agree with neo.

Amputate him and let him go. To be exact one arm, two legs, one eye and one ear. Even castration isn't a bad idea. Let it serve as a lesson. Hanging is the easy way out.

 

[Gannu]

^LOL some really gross methods of ending a life there!

Had he been convicted in Saudi, I wonder what they'd have done to him.

WGACA.

 

[neoronin]

^LOL some really gross methods of ending a life there!

Had he been convicted in Saudi, I wonder what they'd have done to him.

WGACA.

He being convicted in Saudi :rofl:

Even if gets convicted, the worst sentence that he can get is a beheading. Even that's quick, the convict is drugged heavily by default and anti-coagulant injections to ensure that there is no bloody mess. There are enough sympathizers to bribe the executioner for a clean single stroke, otherwise it takes 2 or 3 strokes sometimes to separate the head from the body.

 

[Gannu]

^Christ! How do you know all these? :ashamed:

 

[raptor3624]

He being convicted in Saudi :rofl:

Even if gets convicted, the worst sentence that he can get is a beheading. Even that's quick, the convict is drugged heavily by default and anti-coagulant injections to ensure that there is no bloody mess. There are enough sympathizers to bribe the executioner for a clean single stroke, otherwise it takes 2 or 3 strokes sometimes to separate the head from the body.

daym! really dude!

 

[neoronin]

^Christ! How do you know all these? :ashamed:

From the Internet of course. And you have to believe it because it's in the Internet:bleh: But serioulsy, a friend in Riyadh has told me about how this works.

 

[hellfire]

In my personal opinion, hanging by the neck till death is too unfair. He must be, no, he ought to be kept alive is solitary confinement for the rest of his life. Then he'd realize that there are no 99 virgins waiting for hm in jennat. He ought to feel that pain every day of his life. Hang and kill him...no way! Make the bastard think about his acts for the rest of his miserable life... keep him alive kalapani style.

Hang him, and its over; he's dead and free of any care. What about the dear ones of the victims who have to live with the consequences of his monstrous acts, every day for the rest of their lives?

Problem is, some shyte will hijack one of our civilian aircraft and we will end up releasing him. :no:

 

[Lord Nemesis]

He must be, no, he ought to be kept alive is solitary confinement for the rest of his life. Then he'd realize that there are no 99 virgins waiting for hm in jennat.

If that's what you want him to realize, then don't you think that the best way to make him realize that is to hang him as soon as possible. The sooner he dies, the sooner he would realize that he is going to burn in hell for all eternity.

 

[blr_p]

You dont keep rabid dogs on the streets or in a cage. You put them down and this applies to Kasab.

So what then to make of the supreme sacrifice made by the policeman Tukaram Ombale to keep this rabid dog alive ?

What kind of case would we have had to show the world had this policeman shot Kasab instead.

I think you would agree that it would have been weaker and a lot harder to make.

So if keeping Kasav alive made the case for us, what will killing him achieve ?

Only emotional satisfaction for the aggrieved.

It will NOT give us closure until those responsible are brought to book.

@LN
Here's today's editorial from my local that pretty much sums up my position on this topic.

The right to life is supreme and the state ought not to be taking it. The only instance where its justified is in self-defense. Yet Ombale did not even do that.

 

[neoronin]

So what then to make of the supreme sacrifice made by the policeman Tukaram Ombale to keep this rabid dog alive ?

What kind of case would we have had to show the world had this policeman shot Kasab instead.

I think you would agree that it would have been weaker and a lot harder to make.

So if keeping Kasav alive made the case for us, what will killing him achieve ?

Only emotional satisfaction for the aggrieved.

It will NOT give us closure until those responsible are brought to book.

@LN
Here's today's editorial from my local that pretty much sums up my position on this topic.

The right to life is supreme and the state ought not to be taking it. The only instance where its justified is in self-defense. Yet Ombale did not even do that.

Just curious. What would you want? Let him go?

And who will you hold responsible for this? Pakistan? ISI? Taliban? Or those hundreds of nameless faceless anti-India, Pro-Talibanisation organisations? And how will you bring them to justice without a war?

When the state has the right to defend itself against any military aggression in the form of war [which of course involes killing enemy combatants] It also holds the right to decide to end the life of anyone who kills its citizens

If Pakistan decides to launch an offensive on us, would you sit back and tell "Dude, here take some flowers along with Kashmir and let us smoke a peace pipe together man". No, you kick its ass.

It is exceptionally easy to take a moral stand on these issues. You can be either pro-death sentence and anti-death sentence with your own valid points arguing one is better than the other.

But in the end it boils down to few very essential points that the state will consider before taking a decision to hang Kasab.

Pros

1. No Kandahar situations in the future.
2. It provides a closure to a lot of the victims families
3. Populist measure to ensure that votes are guaranteed.
Cons

1. The terrorists make him a martyr. So what?
2. As I mentioned before, some more bleeding heart lefties will cry. So what?
3. Insult to Tukaram Omble??? Not likely.

When you support your country in an act of war that involves killing people, it would be hypocritical not to support them killing someone who got caught in the process of waging war.

 

[chiron]

Yeah, its totally acceptable to kill captured enemy combatants during a war.

 

[sunny27]

^^^was this(26/11) a war??

 

[neoronin]

^^^was this(26/11) a war??

War doesn't necessarily "only" mean an actual act of aggression by mobilizing massive amounts of military resources against each other. Any organized conflict between two or more entities is considered as war. Saying it's a terrorist attack, internal security threat, guerilla strike and so on and so forth is just playing with semantics.

Kasab and his cohorts were not your average terrorist who stores bombs in two-wheelers or straps it on himself before going kaboom. These guys were armed to the teeth, they had GPS guidance equipment & internal intelligence of the targets, they acquired transportation by force and made a covert landing and did precison strikes on high-value targets that was aimed at creating massive amount of damage with minimal man-power.

And we were frankly caught with our pants down.:ashamed:

 

[madnav]

In my personal opinion, hanging by the neck till death is too unfair. He must be, no, he ought to be kept alive is solitary confinement for the rest of his life. Then he'd realize that there are no 99 virgins waiting for hm in jennat. He ought to feel that pain every day of his life. Hang and kill him...no way! Make the bastard think about his acts for the rest of his miserable life... keep him alive kalapani style.

Hang him, and its over; he's dead and free of any care. What about the dear ones of the victims who have to live with the consequences of his monstrous acts, every day for the rest of their lives?

Problem is, some shyte will hijack one of our civilian aircraft and we will end up releasing him. :no:

its not 99, its 72!!

no guarantee of all being women is what i understand.

 

[blr_p]

Just curious. What would you want? Let him go?

My point is he never be let go. He spends the rest of his life at the taxpayer's expense in the clink. Killing him is letting him go.

And who will you hold responsible for this? Pakistan? ISI? Taliban? Or those hundreds of nameless faceless anti-India, Pro-Talibanisation organisations?

We have a specific list of individuals that have been charged with masterminding this mission. I ask that they be brought to justice. If it can be shown that there is no escape for those guilty in this case it becomes harder to plot future events like it.

And how will you bring them to justice without a war?

This I leave to South block to pull off and may the pressure on them to do so never relent.

When the state has the right to defend itself against any military aggression in the form of war [which of course involes killing enemy combatants It also holds the right to decide to end the life of anyone who kills its citizens

In the course of a war yes, but this particular incident while also an act of war is not quite the same. In short we follow one law for all residents in this country, we don't have one set of rules for foreigners and another for citizens. Both fall under the same laws.

To allow the state to take away this man's right to live is no different than allowing it to do the same with its own citizens. And in this case the state most defnitley does NOT have the right to do so.

If Pakistan decides to launch an offensive on us, would you sit back and tell "Dude, here take some flowers along with Kashmir and let us smoke a peace pipe together man". No, you kick its ass.

Is this a serious question ?

It is exceptionally easy to take a moral stand on these issues. You can be either pro-death sentence and anti-death sentence with your own valid points arguing one is better than the other.

This 'stand' is not based on morals its based on a very simple principle that ppl have rights and no state may take them away. Especially one as important as the right to life.

Its instructive to look at various govt actions through a lens of rights & freedoms, any actions that enhance or protect existing rights & freedoms are to be suported those that do not are opposed. Simple really. No need for any spurious arguments or rhetoric this what it boils down to at the end of the day.

But in the end it boils down to few very essential points that the state will consider before taking a decision to hang Kasab.

Pros

1. No Kandahar situations in the future.

During Kandahar, the demand was for 150+ captives to be freed, do you know what the actual number of those freed was ?

A bit lower, and in that case, they won't go for a low level operative like Kasab who they refused to accept even came from their country in the first place. For them there is no Kasab, he never existed or is dead & gone or at least was supposed to. They will opt for higher level planners & thinkers. So no I disagree that Kasab would ever be released if there was a Kandahar.

2. It provides a closure to a lot of the victims families

True closure comes when they can forgive these ppl (in their hearts) for these attrocities, nothing else will set them free. Nothing else will ease away the pain of a ruined life or a lost loved one.

Besides we already eliminated 9 out of the 10 why do those 9 deaths not matter in this instance and everything is heaped on just this one ?

3. Populist measure to ensure that votes are guaranteed.

This I agree entirely with tho rights are not up to the whims of the masses, they don't change, they are universal, inalienable & absolute.

1. The terrorists make him a martyr. So what?

On the contrary keeping him alive shows there is no quick route to salvation, you are condemmed to live in a purgatory for the rest of your life. It also drives homes the point very amply that whilst these ppl showed no compunctions in taking the lives of others that the same was not done to them. We stand by our principles and do not descend to their levels.

2. As I mentioned before, some more bleeding heart lefties will cry. So what?

I'm not one of them so I don't know what principles they stand by, all i know is they have no problems in giving the state ample power to take away my rights.

3. Insult to Tukaram Omble??? Not likely.

Not insult so much as arbitrary. Kasab was more valuable alive than dead at that point in time but the equation seems to have changed now and i'm not sure why that is.

When you support your country in an act of war that involves killing people, it would be hypocritical not to support them killing someone who got caught in the process of waging war.

You need to differentiate between 26/11 and an act of war in the general sense. Wars are governed by rules, if we do not retaliate there is NO war and in this particular case we chose actively not to.

 

[broadway]

Look at it go. Do you see it? The toyota truck. Do you see it?

 

[neoronin]

My point is he never be let go. He spends the rest of his life at the taxpayer's expense in the clink. Killing him is letting him go.

We have a specific list of individuals that have been charged with masterminding this mission. I ask that they be brought to justice. If it can be shown that there is no escape for those guilty in this case it becomes harder to plot future events like it.
This I leave to South block to pull off and may the pressure on them to do so never relent.

In the course of a war yes, but this particular incident while also an act of war is not quite the same. In short we follow one law for all residents in this country, we don't have one set of rules for foreigners and another for citizens. Both fall under the same laws.

To allow the state to take away this man's right to live is no different than allowing it to do the same with its own citizens. And in this case the state most defnitley does NOT have the right to do so.

Is this a serious question ?

This 'stand' is not based on morals its based on a very simple principle that ppl have rights and no state may take them away. Especially one as important as the right to life.

Its instructive to look at various govt actions through a lens of rights & freedoms, any actions that enhance or protect existing rights & freedoms are to be suported those that do not are opposed. Simple really. No need for any spurious arguments or rhetoric this what it boils down to at the end of the day.

During Kandahar, the demand was for 150+ captives to be freed, do you know what the actual number of those freed was ?

A bit lower, and in that case, they won't go for a low level operative like Kasab who they refused to accept even came from their country in the first place. For them there is no Kasab, he never existed or is dead & gone or at least was supposed to. They will opt for higher level planners & thinkers. So no I disagree that Kasab would ever be released if there was a Kandahar.

True closure comes when they can forgive these ppl (in their hearts) for these attrocities, nothing else will set them free. Nothing else will ease away the pain of a ruined life or a lost loved one.

Besides we already eliminated 9 out of the 10 why do those 9 deaths not matter in this instance and everything is heaped on just this one ?


This I agree entirely with tho rights are not up to the whims of the masses, they don't change, they are universal, inalienable & absolute.

On the contrary keeping him alive shows there is no quick route to salvation, you are condemmed to live in a purgatory for the rest of your life. It also drives homes the point very amply that whilst these ppl showed no compunctions in taking the lives of others that the same was not done to them. We stand by our principles and do not descend to their levels.

I'm not one of them so I don't know what principles they stand by, all i know is they have no problems in giving the state ample power to take away my rights.
Not insult so much as arbitrary. Kasab was more valuable alive than dead at that point in time but the equation seems to have changed now and i'm not sure why that is.
You need to differentiate between 26/11 and an act of war in the general sense. Wars are governed by rules, if we do not retaliate there is NO war and in this particular case we chose actively not to.

If I agree with you, both of us would be wrong.

I don't agree that hard earned tax payers money should be wasted on keeping an individual alive just to make him feel remorse. I don't agree to the fact that you see we settled for 3 hardcore criminals instead of 150 and consider that as a big relief. I don't agree to the fact that Pakistan would do anything to apprehend the list we have shared with them. I do not agree to the fact that state has no right over someones life who kills its own citizens.

Kasab's capture alive was a completely unplanned bonus. He has exhausted his usefulness in terms of the raw data he has shared. So he is being put down like a dog that he is. This is not a question of going down to his level or bringing him to our levels by letting him live.

Finally, I would like to quote this example when it comes to letting these offenders of the hook.

"Indeed, the decision that capital punishment may be the appropriate sanction in extreme cases is an expression of the community's belief that certain crimes are themselves so grievous an affront to humanity that the only adequate response may be the penalty of death."

~ Supreme Court of the United States of America

A minority fringe section like you would be there quoting moral responsibility and principals. But in the end your voices will never be heard or respected no matter how loud you are.:bleh:

Look at it go. Do you see it? The toyota truck. Do you see it?

@ Broadway, missed the context. I know it is the hijacked plane, but what is your point:huh: