26/11: Kasab guilty; Ansari, Sabauddin Shaikh acquitted

[blr_p]

I don't agree that hard earned tax payers money should be wasted on keeping an individual alive just to make him feel remorse.

It's not 'just so' he feels remorse its because two wrongs dont make a right.

I don't agree to the fact that you see we settled for 3 hardcore criminals instead of 150 and consider that as a big relief.

Neither do I, we could have prevented that plane from leaving Amritsar in the first place. But then whoever was in charge had to take cognisance of the fact that there were 5 heavily armed hijackers on board and to move against them would have defnitely entailed serious loss of life.

Hopefully the leak in Katmandu has been plugged since. It needs to be noted that flight did not originate in India, but outside. Given we've not had another hijacking since would lead one to believe this is the case. How long for ? let's see.

I don't agree to the fact that Pakistan would do anything to apprehend the list we have shared with them.

Then there will be no normalisation of relations between our countries. What I don't want to see happen is after a period of time we sorta forget about this and things go back to normal again because per you the Paks will never do anything

If the Paks want to trade with us then these are the terms we set assuming its in their interest to do so.

I do not agree to the fact that state has no right over someones life who kills its own citizens.

Because you see Kasab as different compared to any other resident in this country. That's dangerous because then its easy to make exceptions and dilute rights which affect us all.

DO you remember the ruckus just when the trial was about to start, there were parties suggesting he not have a trial because per them he did not deserve one and should be sent directly to the gallows. The Solicitor General cooly replied that if they were to be barred from trying them they would promptly release him as in this country, we don't DO THINGS THAT WAY. Guess what no more opposition after that

Kasab's capture alive was a completely unplanned bonus. He has exhausted his usefulness in terms of the raw data he has shared.

How do you know that ?

So he is being put down like a dog that he is.

Did not point this out earlier but the dog analogy is flawed in the sense a dog acts on its own when it goes about biting others, you could even say its not within its senses.

In this case Kasab was no lone dog but an instrument for others. You kill the instrument but leave its master untouched and then call it a day ? No.

This is not a question of going down to his level or bringing him to our levels by letting him live.

We cannot bring him up to our level but we can choose what we do with him tho.

Finally, I would like to quote this example when it comes to letting these offenders of the hook.

A life in prison is being let off the hook :huh:

"Indeed, the decision that capital punishment may be the appropriate sanction in extreme cases is an expression of the community's belief that certain crimes are themselves so grievous an affront to humanity that the only adequate response may be the penalty of death."

~ Supreme Court of the United States of America

You are aware there are the states in the US that DO NOT HAVE a death penatly right ?

Almost the whole of the Europe does not neither.

I find it laughable that it was mentioned how the Saudi's deal with this case should be an example to be followed. Do Saudi citizens even have the same freedoms we do ?

WTF are were even talking about the Saudi's then

A minority fringe section like you would be there quoting moral responsibility and principals. But in the end your voices will never be heard or respected no matter how loud you are.:bleh:

Apparently the countries above do listen to their people. Actually forget the west and let look at our own country and its traditions. I'm referring to the orgins of vegetarianism. Because a sizeable majority in this country see's it as wrong to kill animals for food.

If you ask me a respect for life in this country is actually pretty mature a concept. If it applies to animals which in theory have no rights why make the exception for humans that DO HAVE rights.

Tell me, why is it you are so dead set on executing him ?

I'd love to see your justificaitons for it. Try not to get too emotional over it.

 

[neoronin]

It's not 'just so' he feels remorse its because two wrongs dont make a right.

Neither do I, we could have prevented that plane from leaving Amritsar in the first place. But then whoever was in charge had to take cognisance of the fact that there were 5 heavily armed hijackers on board and to move against them would have defnitely entailed serious loss of life.

Hopefully the leak in Katmandu has been plugged since. It needs to be noted that flight did not originate in India, but outside. Given we've not had another hijacking since would lead one to believe this is the case. How long for ? let's see.
Then there will be no normalisation of relations between our countries. What I don't want to see happen is after a period of time we sorta forget about this and things go back to normal again because per you the Paks will never do anything

If the Paks want to trade with us then these are the terms we set assuming its in their interest to do so.

Because you see Kasab as different compared to any other resident in this country. That's dangerous because then its easy to make exceptions and dilute rights which affect us all.

DO you remember the ruckus just when the trial was about to start, there were parties suggesting he not have a trial because per them he did not deserve one and should be sent directly to the gallows. The Solicitor General cooly replied that if they were to be barred from trying them they would promptly release him as in this country, we don't DO THINGS THAT WAY. Guess what no more opposition after that

How do you know that ?

Did not point this out earlier but the dog analogy is flawed in the sense a dog acts on its own when it goes about biting others, you could even say its not within its senses.

In this case Kasab was no lone dog but an instrument for others. You kill the instrument but leave its master untouched and then call it a day ? No.
We cannot bring him up to our level but we can choose what we do with him tho.
A life in prison is being let off the hook :huh:
You are aware there are the states in the US that DO NOT HAVE a death penatly right ?

Almost the whole of the Europe does not neither.

I find it laughable that it was mentioned how the Saudi's deal with this case should be an example to be followed. Do Saudi citizens even have the same freedoms we do ?

WTF are were even talking about the Saudi's then
Apparently the countries above do listen to their people.

Tell me, why is it you are so dead set on executing him ?

I'd love to see your justificaitons for it. Try not to get too emotional over it.

I have made my points clear on why it is beneficial to the state. AFAIK, does this even bother me. hyeah: Not even remotely. Why should it? This is just Internet outrage. But apparently you're bothered about it so much, that you happen to write eloquently constructed pacifist statements.

I'm defending the state here. the dog analogy on my side is bad. Shouldn't have insulted them.:ashamed:

Let us put the emotions aside and think rationally on why death penalty is good.

1) Reduces expenses for the state
2) Populist measure.
3) Clandestine organ harvesting [Just like China]
4) Reduces future risk of being held hostage
By keeping him alive the state is risking more debates in the future wasting its valuable time & resources trying to do a balancing act.

 

[blr_p]

I have made my points clear on why it is beneficial to the state.

And not done it very well I might add.

AFAIK, does this even bother me. hyeah: Not even remotely.

That's your choice, but we lose freedom everytime some politican with an eye on staying in power decides to dilute them.

Why should it? This is just Internet outrage. But apparently you're bothered about it so much, that you happen to write eloquently constructed pacifist statements.

A debate on the death penalty is anything but internet outrage.

I'm touched you find me a pacifist but would not consider myself to be one. To be a pacifist means you do not beleiv in responding when attacked. Now there are reasons to do so and not to. Until that's been properly determined it would be foolish to react. Thi sis known as due diligence instead of knee jerk reactions that put a lot of lives at risk.

The fight for peace is of utmost importance as war is never good. Failing that there is only one objective left and that is victory. This is what I was told by a now passed away relative that was involved in our previoius wars.

Yeah, I guess you might not be able to return the favour but there's lots of others who might do so and they are free to junk whatever I said, but make it good.

I'm defending the state here.

Let those in charge of the state defend it. The difference is in the world view we in Asia have, we consider the state to be above the individual when it ought to be the other way around. Because the state is just the sum of all the individuals in it. If those individuals are enlightened then its more than the sum.

Let us put the emotions aside and think rationally on why death penalty is good.

1) Reduces expenses for the state
2) Populist measure.
3) Clandestine organ harvesting [Just like China]
4) Reduces future risk of being held hostage

I hope you have better real reasons than those because they are actually quite funny

By keeping him alive the state is risking more debates in the future wasting its valuable time & resources trying to do a balancing act.

What balancing act ?

Why is it a bad idea to debate about our society. I'd say to shy away from it only makes the job of those that have untoward intentions even easier. An enlightened citizenry is the best asset a state could ever have.

 

[neoronin]

@ blr_P you are not contributing any value to the debate except elaborating your previously mentioned concise thoughts. If you find my comments not very well justified, it is because of the simple fact that you have made up your mind that you will not approach this argument with an open mind. It's very clear from the fact that you find my reasons funny. The same applies to me and I don't put myself on a pedestal over here. But the fact of the matter is, you will always remain in the fringe shouting to be noticed, while the mass populist opinions would simply keep rolling on.

I'm happy that I made your day by proving that you are a pacifist. Pacifists are like very religious people, they do not accept that fact there is a life without god no matter what the evidence says otherwise and go to elaborate lengths to defend it and when they cannot defend it they laugh it off. Frankly speaking, you have not defended your points very well also, I might add.

1) Lose freedom when some politician makes the decision. That is one of the most laughable point I have noticed. That is why we are living in such a shadow of a big brother democracy

2) It's a proven fact that majority of the soldiers do not like war or do not like to kill other human beings. So hearing from one of your dead relatives about the meaning of a human life might sound saintly, but it doesn't serve the current context.

3) Not all individuals can be enlightened in a state. Nor do enlightened individuals get to decide who rules them. The sooner you get to terms with it, the sooner you will stop living in a fool's paradise

4) An enlightened citizenry is the worst a state could have. It is not an asset. Notice any dictatorship, the first casualties would be the intelligentsia. Citizenry is just a mass that is there to be controlled and manipulated for the state's own purpose. That has not changed over the ages, nor will it change in the future.

Want to continue this argument when you are not willing to step down or when I am not willing to step down, be my guest.

Edit:You quoting me while explaining is tiring to go through. So mention it in points over here, will bother responding to you sometime later.

 

[blr_p]

But the fact of the matter is, you will always remain in the fringe shouting to be noticed, while the mass populist opinions would simply keep rolling on.

Masses said no trial, SG set them straight. Unless you think he is also fringe ?

I'm happy that I made your day by proving that you are a pacifist. Pacifists are like very religious people, they do not accept that fact there is a life without god

(shakes my head)

no matter what the evidence says otherwise and go to elaborate lengths to defend it

What evidence have you presented to justify he be executed ? forget you, what has the state shown in this regard, its purely a populist move that the sentence was awarded. Just to preempt any protests or mayhem.

Tell me when you think he will be executed

1) Lose freedom when some politician makes the decision. That is one of the most laughable point I have noticed. That is why we are living in such a shadow of a big brother democracy

You are aware that we've had rights to speech curbed, right to property revoked, various quotas put in place which basically state that certain ppl are more equal than others. This is the sort of dilution of rights i'm talking about. This new UID project is another splendid example of another one where they want to track you.

2) It's a proven fact that majority of the soldiers do not like war or do not like to kill other human beings. So hearing from one of your dead relatives about the meaning of a human life might sound saintly, but it doesn't serve the current context.

What's your point ?

I was referring to us not attacking the Paks as a result of 26/11.

3) Not all individuals can be enlightened in a state. Nor do enlightened individuals get to decide who rules them. The sooner you get to terms with it, the sooner you will stop living in a fool's paradise

We don't get to say who rules us ? Which country do you live in. FFS !

4) An enlightened citizenry is the worst a state could have. It is not an asset. Notice any dictatorship, the first casualties would be the intelligentsia. Citizenry is just a mass that is there to be controlled and manipulated for the state's own purpose. That has not changed over the ages, nor will it change in the future.

Want to continue this argument when you are not willing to step down or when I am not willing to step down, be my guest.

oh my f*** god, this one is priceless :lol:

You know what, i do not want to debate with you as you have demonstrated yourself to be uterly incapable of carrying this one on.

NEXT!

 

[neoronin]

Haha, as demonstrated, you fell for it, you have shown yourself as utterly incapable of giving a single logical answer except living in a fool's paradise of delusions. Sleep tight and give your fairy godmother a kiss. Failed Ideologist to the core. You know what, I do not want debate with you as you have demonstrated yourself to be utterly incapable of giving a single logical conclusion instead shaking your head, shivering how UID is going to control your life, being happy that we didn't start to deconstruct a failed state, and also failing to forget blr forgets to vote every time, and also inserting meaningless smilies when you run out of arguments proving how vapid you are.

Edit: This is my final comment for some time as I'm too sleepy. Would like to see what meaningless leftie inanities blr_p will come up with to show how Kasab should be forgiven and forgotten. I will respond after a day or so. Also my only regret is that he won't be hanged in a hurry.

 

[spindoctor]

it amuses me that people want him dead asap but the reality is that he will still be alive long after most people stop caring about him.

 

[blr_p]

Heh, no kidding and they will forget about him by next month

 

[chiron]

One ebay Rs 150/- off coupon for guessing which forum member is a bleeding heart leftie, religiously pacifist failed ideologist living in a fool's paradise of delusions without ever bothering to go out and vote. Thankfully though, this kind of person is only a minority fringe rather than a true representative sample of our country.

Hint: the clues can be found by going through this thread.

 

[broadway]

Much of philosophy is pure utopia. It ignores core human tendencies like greed, avarice, aversion etc etc. A man's interactions and dealings with society(politics) can and will go against ethics. Metaphysics will always be constrained to and only academic study.

 

[Params7]

how about a public execution saudi style? that should drive home the message.

Yeah, make a freakin' Hero out of him so they send more here who will come with the dreams of getting hanged on live TV before they are greeted by 72 virgins and Allah above. Bhagat Singh and co. tried this tactic, and it worked.
Besides, I know the man killed our people, but we're way past the savage life. I'm surprised at the number of people jumping on the noose option. What's the point of killing him? We prove we're from the caves at the same time give the man the easy way out. Let him rot for every day of his life in prison repenting what he did.

 

[Gannu]

^Yeah put him in some cage, like portrayed in the movie Zinda and give him food once or twice a day. And it should be such that there's no way he could kill himself in such a situation. Maybe self-cannibalism.

 

[broadway]

Bhagat Singh and co. tried this tactic, and it worked.

Wowz. Guess it's only perception. Stimulus is in-discriminatory.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

I'm surprised at the number of people jumping on the noose option. What's the point of killing him?

At the very least the point is that the longer he lives, the more the chances that he gets out or causes more damage to the country in a variety of ways.

For example the terrorist outfit(s) he works for may decide to get him out by hijacking a plane or do a la 26/11 attack and take people hostage to demand the govt. What ever the choices the govt makes in such a scenario, the end result would be a win for the terrorists and so there is a good chance that they will try something. If the govt decides to release him, they simply and escape (after killing the hostages anyway) and that would be a serious blow tot he morale of the country and the people. If the govt decides not to trade in, they kill the hostages and all the people would be at the govt's throat creating a lot of chaos in the process. If the govt decides to neutralize the threats, chances are innocent people would also die in the process and it would be the same situation again.

 

[blr_p]

Why Kasab instead of others ?

We've caught quite a few higher ranking members recently from Nepal & the Bangala's have promised to hand over those repsonsible for earlier attacks.

If the last time out of 150 demanded only three got delivered then everything's up for neogtaition

You could ask, whether we face a Kandahar situation anyway without Kasab even being in the picture. They will always try to get valued members out one way or the other.

There's more to this, which country is going to give them sanctuary to land in ? The Paks last time around refused completely to get involved. It was only the Taliban that allowed them in.

Given these ppl's idea is to get a release they are prolly less likely to want to die as thats not the main mission.

I see many loopholes in the Kandahar theory

he longer he lives, the more the chances that he gets out or causes more damage to the country in a variety of ways.

This bit I would like to hear more about. What else besides Kandahar ?