Adani group, an Evil corp?

Media is not unbaised, either in India or Western countries, it is partisan - pro administration/ideology or pro opposition. I am not discrediting their journalism, but asking people to take their interests also into account. Not understanding interests - geopolitical, political and ideological, leads people to making choices detrimental to themselves. Case in point - Ukraine.
When every media is biased then what's point in accusing an outlet of carrying out a political attack? What point does it serve other than diverting attention from the news being reported?

If you're so concerned about biased media then please write about Republic, Zee, and Times of India and the likes. That should keep you busy for days and they pose far greater danger to this country than so called ' political attacks from the west'.

Furthermore, there is a lot of infighting and resentment among the western countries, they're not a monolithic entity. This 'establishment' and 'global elites' and all such terms are just dogwhistles about Jewish people used by American conservaties which has been co-opted by our IT cell members without much thought and blended with our usual persecution complex about being held back from the West.

Now please, if you don't mind, let's go back on topic. Which is Adani and not journalists reporting his shady deals or the West or Ukraine or whatever. Keep the tangents to yourself or start a new topic.
 

So, it looks like it's turtles all the way down:

 
Now please, if you don't mind, let's go back on topic. Which is Adani and not journalists reporting his shady deals or the West or Ukraine or whatever. Keep the tangents to yourself or start a new topic.
Happy to. If you don't want to bring politics and geopolitics into threads, please refrain from introducing them. Ridiculing and labeling will not help people change their position and only serves to create echo chambers. Fixing problems, like corruption, in our country requires a collaborative effort from voters of both sides of the political isle. The video you posted from the Financial Times highlights it beautifully.
Anti-nationals will say this is an attack on India and ignore blatant corruption cause 'acche din' or something.
 
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So, it looks like it's turtles all the way down:

Didn't see any real world implications for the vedanta case. Basically they lobbied by writing letters which is as expected for anyone to do business. Moreover they lobbied citing existing practices by the government in coal mining. Refusing this case then can be blamed as favoring only a few.

Forest and environmental conservation laws have been ignored or changed by the government in a big way. And the general public has only cheered that. Public opinion is largely against the likes of Jairam Ramesh.
 
Happy to. If you don't want to bring politics and geopolitics into threads, please refrain from introducing them. Ridiculing and labeling will not help people change their position and only serves to create echo chambers.
Yeah, we know which party is keen on making and exploiting echo chambers. The mask of neutrality and non-bias fades so fast from centrists when conservatives are called out.
Didn't see any real world implications for the vedanta case. Basically they lobbied by writing letters which is as expected for anyone to do business. Moreover they lobbied citing existing practices by the government in coal mining. Refusing this case then can be blamed as favoring only a few.

I'd be surprised if only letters were sent to politicians.
 
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When every media is biased then what's point in accusing an outlet of carrying out a political attack? What point does it serve other than diverting attention from the news being reported?
Every media outlet has a bias, but those funded by state foreign policy apparatus and political organizations need our cognizance.
If you're so concerned about biased media then please write about Republic, Zee, and Times of India and the likes. That should keep you busy for days and they pose far greater danger to this country than so called ' political attacks from the west'.
Glad you appreciate the problem with biased media.
Furthermore, there is a lot of infighting and resentment among the western countries, they're not a monolithic entity.
The US has a long list of positive contributions to human society, in the past and present. They even pressured the UK to leave India and helped our independence movement. But there is a flip side to this coin, they are also ruthless in protecting their interests and have some zealots who push their ideologies in other countries no matter the cost. This is done via shaping the information space, values serve as convenient faced for it sometimes. Manufactured Consent is a book worth reading.

The west like any group of countries have differences in views and culture. But they are a protectorate of the US. There is very little space for independent action when one's finances and security depends on another. Germany and France tried improving relationship with Russia and were stymied by the US.
This 'establishment' and 'global elites' and all such terms are just dogwhistles about Jewish people used by American conservaties
The establishment refers to unelected appointees, lobbyists and long serving members of government organization who influence lawmakers in a non transparent way. It also includes entrenched politicians who retain power by exploiting loopholes in the political system. They have conflicting interests and cannot be removed by the electorate.
For example - Lobbyists of the military industrial complex advocating for intervention in other countries., or, a drug regulator who previously or immediately after serves on the board of a pharmaceutical company. Such people exists on both sides of the isle.
which has been co-opted by our IT cell members without much thought and blended with our usual persecution complex about being held back from the West.
Every choice we make has a cost and benefit associated with it. Be it domestic politics or geopolitics, this cost benefit analysis should be done by people of the country, in their interest, and not by external entities. This is why being aware of interests and finances of entities is important. Because if things go horribly wrong the ultimate price will be paid by the people.

Ukraine is a live example of this, the eastern part favored Russia, the western part favored integration with Europe. There was a fragile negotiation ongoing between the two interest groups. US funded organizations like National Endowment For Democracy propped up one side, Russian security services propped up the other. Then came direct involvement on both sides. Today we have war. It doesn't matter who was right and who was wrong, their choice led them to war and the only people paying the price are the families in Ukraine..

There is an strategic competition going on between the US & China. It is existential for both of them. One of them shares a border with us. Our choices both internally and externally should also take this into account. National Endowment For Democracy is one of the organizations funding OCCRP.
Yeah, we know which party is keen on making and exploiting echo chambers. The mask of neutrality and non-bias fades so fast from centrists when conservatives are called out.
Tribalism is a natural part of the human condition. But contempt and othering for political beliefs is as harmful as that based on religious beliefs. Ukraine again serves as an example.
Good ideas are not an eminent domain of liberals or conservatives, left or right. It is a very reductive way of approaching politics. Trump for all his flaws did not start a war. Obama after winning the noble peace prize bombed millions.

People are a product of their upbringing, the ideas that they are exposed to, and their socioeconomic circumstances. They may hold flawed ideas, beliefs, fears. They gravitate to the political party that is the closest approximation of their worldview, but this doesn't mean they subscribe to all of it. Resorting to hostility, derision, labeling the moment a person espouse an opposing idea makes them run and find shelter. This is how r/IndiaSpeaks was created from r/India, and both have become an echo chambers today. We can contest ideas without alienating people. Agree to disagree politely where we cannot find common ground. Acknowledge their genuine concerns and if possible celebrate their political wins which we agree with.

We win people over by showing them that there is a space for them in our tribe. Treating them with respect.

Adults are capable of complex thought. Those who are cringe at Modi's attention grabbing during Chandrayaan landing can also appreciate increased funding for ISRO. Those who appreciate policies like GST and DBT can also worry about capital controls and license raj. Those who hail abrogation of article 370 can also wail at the handling of Manipur. Those who understand the horrors of antisemitism can also raise a voice against apartheid of Zionism. Those who call out the establishment can also understand the importance of experts and institutions.

If you believe that the present administration is harmful to our country try to win over people from the other side.. Foster a space where both sides can express their ideas and find common ground. That is the essence of democracy.
 
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and folks are saying talking about adani s attacking India. Ah maybe thats why the name change ?
No Link Between Adani, Ambani, and Manipur Violence Over Palm Oil Production [https://onlyfact.in/adani-and-ambani-has-nothing-to-do-with-manipur-violence/]

Oil palm cultivation: Godrej Agrovet signs MoUs with Assam, Manipur and Tripura - Read more at: https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
 

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Watch this to understand the geopolitics behind Adani's Haifa port acquisition. You can see we are trying to counter China by finding alternate routes. They are going to respond to that.


The paper he mentions at 8:58 is worth taking a look at.

(might be a bit OT, but...)
"he who commands the seas, commands everything" appears to be the underlying theme in this game.
the vid being old is a bit outdated on info & only just touches initially on the geopolitical/military aspect of this game, dedicating the rest of the part on trade & commerce alone. some tidbits beyond this vid:

- china under OBOR has 'invested' (we know what that eventually turns out to be; nevertheless...) in ~150 countries till last year, a big chunk of that being on ports, and owns/controls over 100 ports globally already. the military aspect? it has already established military bases at the ports of djibouti, hambantota, gwadar (might be a few more). this 'string of pearls' has 'sub-strings of cannons' too as 'verticals' to mount possible assaults against india (around 8-10 EU-based companies i think have had been helping china in these constructions). as a countermeasure from india's side, the responsibility was taken up by ONGC, L&T, GAIL, Ambani & Adani. the latter has stated to become the largest ports company of the world by 2030.
- adani entered sri lanka & began work on construction of port at colombo, touted globally as a 'strategic game-changer' alongwith making commercial sense & 'india's answer to china's ports in SL' (counter to hambantota).
- then makes a foray into tanzania, investing into its largest port at dar-es-salaam. china's already sitting here on a different, smaller port, and seeing this pushes for implementation of its port. again, can be seen as a counter. side-by-side, indian navy pays a visit to mozambique, and for the first time india holds a trilateral naval exercise with tanzania & mozambique. countermeasure again with focus on western IOR against china's dual-use infra.
- then the haifa port strategic deal which you cited, as a part of new evolving regional strategy to keep china at bay.
- china signs a deal with egypt to develop sea-ports with the help of the EU-based companies. adani also knocked their doors & prez sisi assured to extend his support to the group & its future projects in the country.
- the piraeus port of greece, its main one, mentioned in the vid, is controlled by china. now the adani group is said to be in the process of takeover of three of its ports as india's gateway to europe.
so presently india's global port-network looks something like this:
1694187907496.png
 
@Kilroyquasar

Adani is developing a port in Vizhinjam which seems strategic.
Unlike what people think, SL is a double edged snake. They always, always try to play two parties and try to take benefit from it, which ends at their own peril.
Visited that place pre-covid. Indians think about giving small friend SL some goodwill monies and doing good deeds for neighbors. Their politicians play a different tune there locally, that how their powerful leader is diplomatically putting big India in it's place and taking monies through hardball tactics. Their locals lap it up. They are not that welcoming of outsiders too, for such a small poor island, they play it high against India. They deserve how China treat them, unfortunately there too India is made to pay China's loans. India's kind of soft power diplomacy does not work in this thankless chronically capitalist world, may be it benefits Adani.
 
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India is not doing SL any
@Kilroyquasar

Adani is developing a port in Vizhinjam which seems strategic.
Unlike what people think, SL is a double edged snake. They always, always try to play two parties and try to take benefit from it, which ends at their own peril.
Visited that place pre-covid. Indians think about giving small friend SL some goodwill monies and doing good deeds for neighbors. Their politicians play a different tune there locally, that how their powerful leader is diplomatically putting big India in it's place and taking monies through hardball tactics. Their locals lap it up. They are not that welcoming of outsiders too, for such a small poor island, they play it high against India. They deserve how China treat them, unfortunately there too India is made to pay China's loans. India's kind of soft power diplomacy does not work in this thankless chronically capitalist world, may be it benefits Adani.
India is doing SL no favour, all it is trying to do is trying to prevent them going into china's lap which would be detrimental to Indian interests as the chinese can track indian navy and all its movements from there.
Even our leader is trying to get a port for Adani from them using the loans provided to them by India .India is not paying any chinese loans and all the assistance extended to them is in the form of soft loans but loans which need to be paid.
If India can pitch US and Russia against each other to extract maximum benefits so can they. We need them as much as they.
India is also pitching US against France to get a better Jet Engine manufacturing deal , which might eventually fall into Adani's lap.
The question really is why most of the deals in every sector are falling into Adani's lap , someone who has no expereince in those sectors . Most of his deals are financed through loans when companies with other big business groups like Tata, Reliance etc with huge cash flows are not participating.
 
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> We need them as much as they.

This is where I have to disagree, we don't need them at all, rather they always needed us. They are a place when need to be fully under control of Indian diplomacy, otherwise India forever will have to dance to their tunes. They are threaten-begging, that is the problem. It is India's earlier lack of knowledge on how to play hard tough diplomacy which created such a situation.
 
(might be a bit OT, but...)
"he who commands the seas, commands everything" appears to be the underlying theme in this game.
I can understand military bases overseas. But how does ports help in getting more power.? Has US built lots of ports overseas. Is there a benefit other than a financial one.
 
I can understand military bases overseas. But how does ports help in getting more power.? Has US built lots of ports overseas. Is there a benefit other than a financial one.

yes. having an authoritative position or control over maritime trade routes & nodes helps in consolidation of financial & geopolitical command/power too (for expansionist & colonialist entities, even more so). ports generally are considered national security infra because they are critical for flow of essential goods through them, and further, commercial maritime ports (deepwater ones esp) can be used for dual-purposes - for cargo as well as naval ships. this is what many chinese & their controlled overseas commercial ports are, and all of them have chinese state-backing & money/investments. as well, alongwith this, they also bid for making military bases separately in countries (esp smaller, geopolitically little-influential nations but which have some strategic value over maritime routes) where they have commercial ports or plan to have one/some. since you mentioned USA, they dont have as many or such ports worldwide, but they do help 'friendly' nations & their companies to acquire stakes for control or construction. they have been trying to scuttle beijing's attempts at acquiring or investing globally in ports using such backchannel/diplomatic methods & means with mixed & limited success. now with the just-concluded G20/G21 summit too, while italy has expressed its intent to pull itself out from obor to the chinese premier, india has sealed deal worth billions for investments & defence with nigeria (the ports of which have major chinese stakes/control), and it'd only be logical to expect more nations of the african union to follow suit with india given the favourable fervour, so again, can be considered a countermeasure (and a threat by china) to chinese-ownerships in that region.

India is also pitching US against France to get a better Jet Engine manufacturing deal , which might eventually fall into Adani's lap.
The question really is why most of the deals in every sector are falling into Adani's lap , someone who has no expereince in those sectors . Most of his deals are financed through loans when companies with other big business groups like Tata, Reliance etc with huge cash flows are not participating.

perhaps a hint to that is in the answer given by TVS group chemplast amalgamation chairman who was posed similar question years back reg. the ambanis, and he replied that the other business-groups dont have that "risk-appetite" to venture into big-ticket businesses, and they are more of "conservative business families", while ambanis/adanis are able to take high debt/equity ratio (and the latter also using more community & co-businessmen funding than the former). most of the traditional business houses are not taking risk to go and invest in unchartered territories and domains whereas ambanis and adanis are ready to take higher risks and proved that they can be successful with their models. for eg adanis had aimed for building the port at mundra back in 1991 & had visions of venturing into other ports & logistics, energy, food, housing & pharma by '95-'96 itself (at that time HiTech or IT wasnt that an attractive field); whereas some others like infosys wipro TCS HCL etc were happier in being service-providers than coming out with their own products. following the radical changes in govt policies over the past some years, DefTech-DigiTech-HiTech-Fintech etc. developed & improved fairly recently.
 
perhaps a hint to that is in the answer given by TVS group chemplast amalgamation chairman who was posed similar question years back reg. the ambanis, and he replied that the other business-groups dont have that "risk-appetite" to venture into big-ticket businesses, and they are more of "conservative business families", while ambanis/adanis are able to take high debt/equity ratio (and the latter also using more community & co-businessmen funding than the former). most of the traditional business houses are not taking risk to go and invest in unchartered territories and domains whereas ambanis and adanis are ready to take higher risks and proved that they can be successful with their models. for eg adanis had aimed for building the port at mundra back in 1991 & had visions of venturing into other ports & logistics, energy, food, housing & pharma by '95-'96 itself (at that time HiTech or IT wasnt that an attractive field); whereas some others like infosys wipro TCS HCL etc were happier in being service-providers than coming out with their own products. following the radical changes in govt policies over the past some years, DefTech-DigiTech-HiTech-Fintech etc. developed & improved fairly recently.

Well said. Also, Adani and Ambani are second to none in terms of execution speed/efficiency. That capability along with sheer ambition is why GoI prefers to use them towards it strategic goals. This is something that China does too with its PSUs, but it's also a function of their PSU's war chest and the lack of sizable private counterparts (as China maintains a tight grip on the infra sector).

Overall, I'm more firm in my belief than when I first posted on this thread that the hit on the Adani group is multifactorial, geopolitics being a major one. Keen observers would also note how a certain princeling has now started omitting Ambani from his erstwhile Adani-Ambani jibes at the government.

Lastly, can't wait for the day when we become a $10,000 PCI country and throw our weight around, regardless of which party is in power. We're doing a decent job at the moment despite being much smaller than China. Almost 40 years of geopolitical unipolarity is coming to an end and India will be a major player in shaping the future world order. Economic growth is a necessary condition for that (besides the primary objective of bettering our citizens' life) and towards that end, may many Adanis and Ambanis flower and prosper.
 
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