Apple Announces Redesigned Mac Mini With M4 and M4 Pro Chips

[TinTinSnowy]

yeah, right - do you see that happening?

There is a start and I feel things will pickup as Right to Privacy, Choice and Quality is gaining attention. EU mandated changes will also appear in other countries due to other govts following them, people raising their voice for the same as they get to know about them and companies having hard time maintaining two different enclosures for their products or codebase.

• EU mandated USB Type C.
• EU version of Windows 11 having better privacy and allowing removal of every first party app.
• EU forcing large messaging providers to enable messaging interoperability.
• EU forcing Apple to allow alternative app stores.
• EU forcing Apple to allow third party browser engines on their mobile devices.
• China forcing Apple to enable RCS messaging in iMessages.
• EU forcing companies to have removable battery support or better batteries with higher cycles and life.

We are in a competitive market above all and competition is always good for consumer. You can check the last decade and see how competition benefited us.

• TSMC getting competitive benefited consumers by getting better chips with more performance and lower power requirements across.
• AMD getting competitive forced Intel to give us higher cores in their lower end cpu chips. (No regulator was involved and there was no incentive for Intel to do so)
• Apple getting competitive is forcing other cpu manufacturers to focus on power efficiency and performance. (No regulator was involved and there was no incentive for chip makers to focus on power efficiency)
• Apple offering 16gb ram + high single core and multi core performance in 50K will force other OEMs and chip makers to cut prices or offer better hardware or innovate faster. (Don't buy Apple if you don't like them but Apple will get you a better deal for your future windows pc purchase)
• Chinese OEMs entry into the market forced all laptop, pc, smartphone makers to give us competitive hardware at good prices. Xiaomi Mi3 - INR 15K and equivalent Snapdragon in other manufacturers was available for minimum INR 40K at that time. It does not matter if they sold at loss or subsidized the cost via advertisements. It forced all other OEMs to offer consumer better specs for the price.
• Chinese getting competitive in the battery tech allowed us to have fast charging and much larger batteries in the same enclosure. Other companies avoided fast charging and some still do citing it degrades battery to poor health. Yet people are using super fast charging from a few years now with minimal effect on the battery life.
• Long update policy of Windows forced Apple, Google and others to come out with a better update policy. There was a time Google needed to beg to Mediatek to get them to patch a vulnerability. Now Google can just push an update through Google Play System Update to many of the main line modules and offer fixes / new features to older devices promptly. Google still offer revenue sharing to OEMs who are prompt with security updates but I think scenario is changing as consumer wants better update policy now. We have an Samsung Android Phone with 6 years of OS and security updates under 20K in India now.

I can go on but you are getting the gist. Things will only improve for consumers from here due to govt regulations, free market and higher competition.

 

[Tracer_Bullet]

Apple is notoriously anti-consumer, to me it should be obvious but yes i am not ready to put in the work and argue here anymore. Maybe just lazy attempt.

is apple anti consumer - Google Search

Can it not be argued that non-removable batteries ended up better for the consumer? I don't need to worry about water or dirt ingress as I used to with Pocket PC devices or early Windows Mobile ones. Fast charging negates the need to carry multiple batteries as I needed to do in the early days.

Nope, not for me. I was happy with removable batteries but choice got removed. Never had a problem with it. Problem is that you lose some control on what happens if battery dies.

By the time battery health degrades, software support would've ended for the device. Third party battery swaps is a new industry that didn't exist before

Yes and does this happen on desktop? How often does it happen ? Do i have option to switch to another os ? Do you get what you are saying ? That hardware life is bound by software that they control and encourage massive levels of waste with this mania of upgrading to latest model number and discarding perfectly functional devices. wtf should hardware become obsolete like this ?

Audio fidelity is no longer tied to the DAC inside your device, you can use much better inline USB-C adapters.

I dont care, i was happy with what i had why cant we have option for both ? Do you see where this is going ? Will you justify same in desktops ?
If gpus had VRAM purchased externally ( apparently they used to), Nvdia fking customers with shit amount of vram wouldnt happen. Not say that its technically possible and yes we have issues in desktops too but its much more open in a lot of different things.


I have owned only ipod shuffle as apple product, i liked it but it had shit bad designed charger that broke often, It was locked to shitty bloated itunes ( eventually found a workaround).
My college had apple desktops and it had a laughable single click mouse but it looked nice. Ofc, there will be good stuff too.

But anyway, last post from me. I had to rant and so i did.

There is a start and I feel things will pickup as Right to Privacy, Choice and Quality is gaining attention. EU mandated changes will also appear in other countries due to other govts following them, people raising their voice for the same as they get to know about them and companies having hard time maintaining two different enclosures for their products or codebase.

How many years did it take for stuff to happen. Apple can change something else and then here we go again. And thats EU, good luck getting that here. And yes i agree too juch regulation can hinder progress too. But problem is lack of choice and monopolies. Anyway, last post from me, i am derailing this otherwise happy thread.

 

[rsaeon]

Will you justify same in desktops ?

OT but yes, I've been using USB DACs ever since the first USB Sound Blaster. Couldn't go back to on board audio after that.

Most of your disdain has more to do with the onward march of technology. But that's inevitable. Something similar happened with performance oriented cars, V8s were replaced by EcoBoosts, a good old fashioned gearbox was replaced by steering wheel paddles, etc. Grandparents used to grind whole cinnamon, parents used to buy Everest boxes and now I buy preseasoned ingredients from Instamart.

I read a news article the other day where the pass percentage for Math was now 20%. In my day, 10th boards covered both 9th and 10th syllabi and there were two papers. But if these changes are better for the next generation then who am I to say it's unfair?

Funnily enough I read somewhere that we're the only generation that knows how to fix computers. Our parents never built any to know, our children won't care enough to know.

 

[Tracer_Bullet]

OT but yes, I've been using USB DACs ever since the first USB Sound Blaster. Couldn't go back to on board audio after that.

No problem, but forcing it on all ? Nope. Just because you like something or Apple ceo likes something ( or rather wants to sell overpriced replacements) should not mean that it gets removed for all and that's what happened and wont happen on desktops easily as long as they remain open and not closed by boxes like these.

Most of your disdain has more to do with the onward march of technology. But that's inevitable

Strongly disagree. I am typing this on a desktop with 4k 32 oled monitor. So i am ok with spending ( but i dont overspend vs income/capital) and i also get latest stuff when it makes sense to me.

Giving control to monopoly type restrictions means that the best version of windows( imo ofc) is not available to retail.
It means that people become happy when Apple gives 16gb ram at entry level ( cant stop laughing at this) and will be happier if Nvidia does the same.

But anyway, let it be. Wont reply after this 100%. Good day.

Again -

is apple anti consumer - Google Search

 

[nullpc]

Might be a good time to pick up a used M1/M2 mini for my homelab

Any plans on what you’re going to do with it? I’m guessing you’re gonna try Asahi. I’ve run Asahi for a while and it worked pretty well but there’s still a lack of packages compiled for ARM. I don’t recall specifics but I remember trying to fix an issue in Fedora and realizing I had to go and compile it myself since the published rpms were not present for ARM. But I’m sure things will improve.

 

[Darth Vader]

Apple products are not Anti-poor or Anti-consumer, they're Anti-intelligence (AI):

256GB Storage is mobile category,never heard in PC space and yet consumers buy their product.
So does all the OLED tech which has worse life/dollar than all apple devices. Only hypocrites will take sides & rely on "Selective Criticism",same story with Console peasants.
Mac-mini looks cute though,if only their eco system was useful in solving real-world problems aka Gaming.

 

[ibose]

I’ve run Asahi

When was it ? Recently ?

 

[vishalrao]

Apple stuck the Mac mini power button on the bottom

Don't expect to fit the new M4 Mac mini into too tight a space because you're going to have to tip it to reach underneath every time you need to switch it on.

appleinsider.com

Apple Moves the M4 Mac Mini's Power Button To the Bottom - Slashdot

Apple has moved the power button on its new M4 Mac mini to an awkward spot underneath the device, requiring users to lift or tip the computer to turn it on. The button now sits near the left rear corner, raised slightly by cooling vents, instead of its previous accessible position on the back...

apple.slashdot.org

 

[desiibond]

Apple products are not Anti-poor or Anti-consumer, they're Anti-intelligence (AI):

View attachment 212459

256GB Storage is mobile category,never heard in PC space and yet consumers buy their product.
So does all the OLED tech which has worse life/dollar than all apple devices. Only hypocrites will take sides & rely on "Selective Criticism",same story with Console peasants.
Mac-mini looks cute though,if only their eco system was useful in solving real-world problems aka Gaming.

So true.

Apple stuck the Mac mini power button on the bottom

Don't expect to fit the new M4 Mac mini into too tight a space because you're going to have to tip it to reach underneath every time you need to switch it on.

appleinsider.com

Apple Moves the M4 Mac Mini's Power Button To the Bottom - Slashdot

Apple has moved the power button on its new M4 Mac mini to an awkward spot underneath the device, requiring users to lift or tip the computer to turn it on. The button now sits near the left rear corner, raised slightly by cooling vents, instead of its previous accessible position on the back...

apple.slashdot.org

3 trillion $ company. One side they say 'we are green blah blah' and on the other hand their fanbase says 'we do not turn off our apple computers' when people asked why the power button is placed there. Has to be the dumbest argument ever. Even if it is sleeping at 1W per hour consumption, it is still consuming power. 1000 of those is 1kW power wasted every hour. Idiots!

 

[peanutbutter]

Any plans on what you’re going to do with it? I’m guessing you’re gonna try Asahi. I’ve run Asahi for a while and it worked pretty well but there’s still a lack of packages compiled for ARM. I don’t recall specifics but I remember trying to fix an issue in Fedora and realizing I had to go and compile it myself since the published rpms were not present for ARM. But I’m sure things will improve.

I haven't looked into Asahi yet, but I'm quite happy with vanilla macOS + brew. I was just thinking of running macOS headless and attach it to my k3s cluster (and run a couple of cronjobs here and there).

 

[ze_cook]

Can it not be argued that non-removable batteries ended up better for the consumer? I don't need to worry about water or dirt ingress as I used to with Pocket PC devices or early Windows Mobile ones. Fast charging negates the need to carry multiple batteries as I needed to do in the early days.

By the time battery health degrades, software support would've ended for the device. Third party battery swaps is a new industry that didn't exist before. Audio fidelity is no longer tied to the DAC inside your device, you can use much better inline USB-C adapters.

There are pros and cons but I can't say that we're worse off with these changes.

No, it was possible to make ingress protected devices with removable battery, check out Galaxy S5. And regarding battery swap/software support, it's always an option to get an aftermarket/oem battery after the battery has degraded and swap it easily, instead of requiring specialised tools, risking breaking the screen and voiding the IP rating. I changed the battery on my Oneplus 5 myself, even though it did not have a removable back cover, it was held with a couple of screws, compared to gluey mess of today's phones.

Removal of headphone jack was a decision based 95% on profits from selling wireless earphones and 5% (if at that) about superior USB DACs. My last phone (OnePlus 5) had a good onboard Qualcomm audio system, but supported USB DACs as well. My current phone (s23) does not have a headphone jack, if if I want to use earphones (KZ iems), and also need to charge my phone, tough luck. Bluetooth earphones are *a* solution, but my buds pro 2 sounds inferior compared to my KZs.

I like my options, and Apple likes to take them away.

They do make good hardware though, they're expensive, definitely, but almost always top of the class. I can get the M4 mini for 50k (with my student email), but what will I even do with it. I'm not invested in the mac/apple ecosystem and can move platforms if needs be, the system has impressive performance and efficiency, but it's a desktop class device, where efficiency is hardly ever the point (for me, that is). If you're already using a mac though, it's a substantial upgrade.

 

[rsaeon]

The S5 was an outlier that did not have a successor, probably because the failure/return rate was unacceptable. The S6 did not have a removable battery.

It's likely the headphone jack posed similar challenges for waterproofing, otherwise why would Apple bundle lightning earphones if they intended to force consumers to go wireless? Wired remained an option through the lightning port, either directly or a 3.5mm inline adapter. Both came bundled with the iPhone 7, the first iPhone without a headphone jack.

The Airpods launched at $159 in 2016. Today, eight years later, we have TWS hovering around the Rs 500 mark. Would that have happened without the Airpods? Difficult to say. But it's really nice to see.

if I want to use earphones (KZ iems), and also need to charge my phone, tough luck

Do dual Type-C adapters/splitters not work with your phone? They let you connect earphones and chargers to a single port simultaneously.

 

[TinTinSnowy]

Galaxy S5

Obligatory!

----------------------------------------------------------------

Apple launches M4 Macbook Pros.

New MacBook Pro features M4 family of chips and Apple Intelligence

Apple today unveiled the new MacBook Pro, powered by the M4 family of chips: M4, M4 Pro, and M4 Max.

www.apple.com

Apple will also sell 16gb M2 and M3 Air at 8gb base model price. I guess they smartly avoided updating them to M4 to prevent them from hammering pro sales.

 

[ze_cook]

The S5 was an outlier that did not have a successor, probably because the failure/return rate was unacceptable. The S6 did not have a removable battery.

Possible, but in all likelihood it was cheaper to produce without a removable back.

It's likely the headphone jack posed similar challenges for waterproofing,

Unlikely, if the headphone jack posed a problem for waterproofing, why not the lightning port, or the USB C port of modern phones?

why would Apple bundle lightning earphones if they intended to force consumers to go wireless?

Because it was a transition period, they don't do that anymore, most companies only did it for a few generations at best. They do make a type-c dongle for the holdouts that performs really well, but airpods is clearly the business focus.

Do dual Type-C adapters/splitters not work with your phone? They let you connect earphones and chargers to a single port simultaneously.

They probably work, but look what one has to carry, not only a dongle for the earphone, but a USB c splitter as well, just for some functionality that was standard 8 years ago.

 

[rsaeon]

At the time, Apple said they removed port to make the phone thinner and more water resistant.

The headphone port could've just been another point of failure, maybe something about the TRRS spring contacts.

It's also considerably larger than a lightning or type-connector and the functionality was deemed redundant.

Physically, an inline adapter barely adds any bulk to either earphones or chargers so the issue is the mental load of knowing there's something in between the device and connector. That's something I cannot relate to.

just for some functionality that was standard 8 years ago.

At this point, it's probably time to let go. There are kids out there that probably never have seen a 3.5mm jack. It was hilarious to see people speculate the round circle in the front of the new mac mini to be a IR receiver haha. They went to that way before anyone thought of a headphone jack.

 

[ze_cook]

At the time, Apple said the removed the port to make space for the taptic engin

Doesn't make it entirely true, they have enough space inside the iphone 7 to fit the headphone jack, and one youtuber "strange parts" (dude's awesome, lives/works in the Shenzhen area, you will probably love the channel) managed to do it after the 7 released.

It is possible the headphone jack increased the potential surface area for water ingress, but I have zero doubt that they could've kept it (as there's enough space and ip67 phones with headphone jack exist), but they didn't want to.

this point, it's probably time to let go.

I have given up on it ever returning, still salty

 

[superczar]

I like my options, and Apple likes to take them away.

You are right.. But the blame for that lies squarely with the competition that lets them get away with it.
Of course I'd have loved it if the MBP/MBA still retained a USB A port or the iphone had a wired jack (even though I have limited use for them)
But these to me are factors that fall way low down in the purchase decision because there are other far more important parameters that one has to look at.

For the last decade + , I have been using both Android/iOS and Mac/Windows concurrently without a gap.

On the phone side, credit where it's due, phone manufacturers and Google have both worked well to have an equally competent alternative. At this point, the choice of iOS or android is largely preference based. Both do somethings better than the other but the delta is usually a small one.
If I have a quick task to perform, I will reach out for whichever phone is nearby

On the computing side though, I have seen it go from bad to worse on the windows side of things... To the point that I can objectively state that the UX is not even remotely comparable.
I have progressively reduced my usage of windows over the years to a point now where I really do not want to use it unless completely out of options on alternate platforms (e.g. some unique app)
Additionally, windows machines had a cost advantage earlier. That part has also narrowed to a point where comparable quality windows laptops tend to be priced the same or often more than the equivalent Mac...
My last windows laptop purchase was in 2020 which I sold off. I still retain a desktop (where windows still does OK and the demerits are manageable ) and a dual boot legion go (which defaults to Linux Bazzite) but I dont think I am buying any win laptops unless something changes fundamentally

 

[ze_cook]

You are right.. But the blame for that lies squarely with the competition that lets them get away with it.
Of course I'd have loved it if the MBP/MBA still retained a USB A port or the iphone had a wired jack (even though I have limited use for them)
But these to me are factors that fall way low down in the purchase decision because there are other far more important parameters that one has to look at.

For the last decade + , I have been using both Android/iOS and Mac/Windows concurrently without a gap.

On the phone side, credit where it's due, phone manufacturers and Google have both worked well to have an equally competent alternative. At this point, the choice of iOS or android is largely preference based. Both do somethings better than the other but the delta is usually a small one.
If I have a quick task to perform, I will reach out for whichever phone is nearby

On the computing side though, I have seen it go from bad to worse on the windows side of things... To the point that I can objectively state that the UX is not even remotely comparable.
I have progressively reduced my usage of windows over the years to a point now where I really do not want to use it unless completely out of options on alternate platforms (e.g. some unique app)
Additionally, windows machines had a cost advantage earlier. That part has also narrowed to a point where comparable quality windows laptops tend to be priced the same or often more than the equivalent Mac...
My last windows laptop purchase was in 2020 which I sold off. I still retain a desktop (where windows still does OK and the demerits are manageable ) and a dual boot legion go (which defaults to Linux Bazzite) but I dont think I am buying any win laptops unless something changes fundamentally

Agreed on most points, I do find macos asinine, but windows is a bloat. I run Linux full time on my 12th gen vivobook oled, because animations are somehow choppy on windows even with so much power, while a relatively heavy DE like GNOME is buttery smooth. Battery life on linux is easily 2x of windows, and if I'm idling/reading doc, it consumes a meagre 4w (total draw from battery, unplugged) with a 2.8k OLED display @90hz.

 

[Tracer_Bullet]

I am buying any win laptops unless something changes fundamentally

Windows LTSC is ok, but we can only install it through other means.

I just install linux instead ( ubuntu LTS + KDE ) for my work which runs on Laptop ( Need laptop to get battery backup). Haven't run windows at all on laptop. Happy with it, very happy that i can work from Linux these days, Few years back it seemed impossible for my use case.

Next time, i might go for steam deck 2 or similar + linux instead of laptop.

 

[codwapeace]

Agreed on most points, I do find macos asinine, but windows is a bloat. I run Linux full time on my 12th gen vivobook oled, because animations are somehow choppy on windows even with so much power, while a relatively heavy DE like GNOME is buttery smooth. Battery life on linux is easily 2x of windows, and if I'm idling/reading doc, it consumes a meagre 4w (total draw from battery, unplugged) with a 2.8k OLED display @90hz.

I would love to do the same i.e., install Linux on my vivobook 14X oled. Can you tell me what flavor of linux are you using and how did you optimize the power draw? Are there any bugs that I should be aware of upon switching to linux?
Do you have discrete graphics? If yes, how well is optimus working?
Thanks.