aquaguard eboiling water purifier

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like you said, i am not here to criticize UV systems or promote UF systems.

but the starter asked whetherr is it any good? i gave him my reasoning and comparisons of different systems and needs thereof.

anyways its buyers choice what suits him we can just guide him/her, or give our suggestions.

Edit : after reading bigbytes given link, it emphasizes what i said earlier. for benefit of members here i am quoting the text.

BARC develops unique water purifier
The Desalination Division of Bhabha Atomic Research Centre is engaged in development and deployment of various types of membranes and other processes for a wide range of water-related applications such as sea and brackish water desalination, effluent treatment and recycle, and water reuse. BARC has put up several big and small plants for such purposes in different parts of the country. It also provides consultancy services to several agencies in this regard.
Recently, the division developed an ultrafiltration membrane based device for online purification of domestic water. According to BARC, this device is an efficient and economical alternative to various other commercially available water purification devices. During the last one year, BARC has transferred the knowhow of this technology to 10 private parties for commercialisation on non-exclusive basis through its Technology Transfer & Collaboration Division (TT&CD).

Ultraviolet (UV) devices work on the principle that most of the microorganisms are sensitive to UV-radiation and have a critical dose, above which they become inactive. The main limitation of this device is that it is electrically operated and does not remove any other contaminants. Inactivated, dead and decayed bacteria are always present in purified water. Efficiency of UV device is adversely affected if proper flow of inlet water is not maintained and appropriate pre-filtration system is not employed. The device is expensive and needs frequent servicing from technicians. A major part of the country lacks continuous electric supply and hence this device cannot be effectively used during non-availability of power.

Devices employing chemical addition are based on release of certain chemicals like chlorine, iodine or silver for destroying bacteria to give safe water. Their efficiency of destroying bacteria is always questionable due to poor residence time, and they also change the taste of water.

As far as membrane processes are concerned, reverse osmosis (RO) membrane devices can be used to remove virtually all kinds of contaminants, including salinity. This device is more suitable for industrial or community scale and too expensive for domestic purposes because it works with electrically operated pump generating 5-10 bars pressure. This device is not suitable for water containing low salinity (TDS) as in Mumbai, as it will remove many essential minerals from water.

Devices based on ultrafiltration membrane can physically remove bacteria, suspended solids and high molecular weight organics without the use of electricity, at tap water pressure, mainly by sieving (size-exclusion) mechanism. The useful life of this membrane device depends on configuration of the membrane. Most of the existing membrane devices employ UF membrane in either spiral, capillary or hollow fibre form. A drawback with these configurations is that they cannot be completely cleaned physically and due to deposition of suspended solids, their output keeps on decreasing with time. The on-line domestic water purifier developed at BARC's Desalination Division is based on this ultrafiltration membrane in cylindrical configuration, which is free from these limitations.
The ultrafiltration membrane device for domestic water purification has the following advantages over various other devices:
* The device is very effective. It almost completely filters out bacteria and turbidity, producing crystal clear water.
* The device is very compact and portable. It can be easily installed and needs no electricity or addition of any chemical.
* The device physically filters out bacteria. There will not be any dead or decayed bodies of bacteria in purified water unlike ultraviolet or chemical addition devices.
* Due to candle like cylindrical configuration of ultrafiltration membrane, they can be easily cleaned and reused number of times unlike ultrafiltration membrane of hollow fibre, capillary or spiral configuration which cannot be cleaned completely and has to be replaced after some time.
* The operational cost of device is almost negligible. It is almost maintenance free except occasional cleaning of membrane surface.
* Polysulfone, the material of preference for making ultrafiltration membranes, has excellent stability with respect to residual chlorine acids and alkalis.
* No additional column of activated charcoal is required.
* Not a single drop of water is wasted.

the colour coded points were the points which made me decide on Ultrafiltration based system for my house.
 
I also feel that UV purifiers are not that much effective. They are surviving only on the basis of hardcore marketing. Waters in river is exposed to UV rays from sun for hours, that doesn't makes it ultra pure. Regular maintenance is very important for UV purifiers.

For RO purifiers it's true that they take away essential minerals also. Kent, the leading manufacturer of RO technology, have realized this and is now offering mineral RO purifier. Don't know how it works. Further it is very costly (around 15000).

Medpal what are your views about cleaning and maintenance of permionics systems?
 
medpal said:
Ultraviolet (UV) devices work on the principle that most of the microorganisms are sensitive to UV-radiation and have a critical dose, above which they become inactive. The main limitation of this device is that it is electrically operated and does not remove any other contaminants. Inactivated, dead and decayed bacteria are always present in purified water. Efficiency of UV device is adversely affected if proper flow of inlet water is not maintained and appropriate pre-filtration system is not employed. The device is expensive and needs frequent servicing from technicians. A major part of the country lacks continuous electric supply and hence this device cannot be effectively used during non-availability of power.

It does point to my first concern about purifiers in my first post..... It all boils down to the principal of immunity which should not be affected for us Indians to survive in this country... We need those biological impurities somewhat to have an effective immune system...

anyways its buyers choice what suits him we can just guide him/her, or give our suggestions.

Yepp.... Its better to let him decide
 
bigbyte said:
I also feel that UV purifiers are not that much effective. They are surviving only on the basis of hardcore marketing. Waters in river is exposed to UV rays from sun for hours, that doesn't makes it ultra pure. Regular maintenance is very important for UV purifiers.
For RO purifiers it's true that they take away essential minerals also. Kent, the leading manufacturer of RO technology, have realized this and is now offering mineral RO purifier. Don't know how it works. Further it is very costly (around 15000).
Medpal what are your views about cleaning and maintenance of permionics systems?
i am using it for more than two years now, the principle is that once in a day you have to clean the system by way of opening the discard valve which bypasses the storage channel and passes the water through the cleaning channel, when the output is clean you can close the output tap and start gathering the drinking water as simple as that.

now it is said that if the membrane gets clogged then there will be no water flow whatsoever.

after a time the output gets slower then you need membrane cleaning which costs 300 bucks may be once in 3 years, if supplied water is reasonably clean.

when i purchased i was able to contact an engineer of the company who was on tour to my city, he offered me a visit to the plant of company, he told average lifespan of the membrane is seven years minimum, and is you are more concerned then you can change it earlier.

the cost of unit : 6100 rs. and i bargained to waive off installation charges and got some concession because we had a group order.
 
racy1 said:
They are ISI approved systems....
The ISI mark doesn't assure water quality in case of user error. Having the customer ensure a slow rate of flow is dicey at best.

racy1 said:
EVS - Electronic Monitoring System

While the water is completely purified after the above 3 stages, Aquaguard has one more benefit. A unique Electronic Monitoring System. This electronic eye monitors the purification process and stops the flow of water immediately, if the level of purification is inadequate...
Do you know what this is? It is merely a light sensor which detects the amount of light falling on it from the UV lamp. It assumes that the light falling on it will be too low when the water is muddy. It can in no way detect whether the UV has successfully killed the bacteria.
Let me tell you that Eureka Forbes is a company that is high on marketing and their sales staff are very well trained to psycologically knock out any remaining customer resistance.
 
Any idea on what is the max level of TDS can be removed using the permionics systems. Does it purifies water with 450 TDS level?
 
Sorry for bumping up this old topic :ashamed:
Have a couple of queries:

medpal said:
second consideration for RO was whether it really is needed? now RO is a principle taken from human kidney, but the AI behind these machines is not that much smart so it can differentiate between usefull metals and toxic heavy metals. there are few metals which are really necessary to body and are sourced from water.
This in way lead to weak absorption quality of intesstines and may lead to problems when exposed to non treated water.
- Would this mean an RO system is potentially not a good choice for health?

Lets say I get borewell water, which while decent enough in taste could perhaps benefit from a slight improvement. Would it be wise to go for an RO setup and in a way starve your body of natural minerals or would we be better off with something that isn't so meticulous in removing everything?

- I've noticed the RO and Ultra-filtration systems have quite a low flow rate - 8 to 10 litres/hour. Something like the Aquaguard we use(d) definitely has a much higher flow rate. How do people manage? (We use purified water for a number of other tasks around the kitchen like cooking, washing dishes)

- About ultra-filtration, the Permionics brand isn't too well heard of. While I have mailed them asking if they have a distributor down south, are there any other makers of Ultrafiltration units?

- You mentioned RO units frequently breaking down. Is there any specific reason for it?
And thanks medpal for the wealth of info already thrown into this thread :D
 
Crazy_Eddy said:
Sorry for bumping up this old topic :ashamed:
Have a couple of queries:
- Would this mean an RO system is potentially not a good choice for health?

Lets say I get borewell water, which while decent enough in taste could perhaps benefit from a slight improvement. Would it be wise to go for an RO setup and in a way starve your body of natural minerals or would we be better off with something that isn't so meticulous in removing everything?

- I've noticed the RO and Ultra-filtration systems have quite a low flow rate - 8 to 10 litres/hour. Something like the Aquaguard we use(d) definitely has a much higher flow rate. How do people manage? (We use purified water for a number of other tasks around the kitchen like cooking, washing dishes)

- About ultra-filtration, the Permionics brand isn't too well heard of. While I have mailed them asking if they have a distributor down south, are there any other makers of Ultrafiltration units?

- You mentioned RO units frequently breaking down. Is there any specific reason for it?
And thanks medpal for the wealth of info already thrown into this thread :D

water purification is a tricky situation specially in India.

UV Purification will create an environment which is bacteriostatic so that any biological impurities in water will be disabled / destabilised so that they are no more harmfull to humans, but this effect lasts only for about 24-48 hours according to container in which water is stored.

Uv purification is rendered useless if you have too much turbid supply of water and too hard a water supply.

Ro on the other hand is considered one of the best method to purify the water but still it has its own drawbacks too.

RO is slow, there is a lot of wastage of water, too much maintainance cost.

While on the contrary benefits of RO are it removes hard elements from water and renders taste of water sweet.

Personally speaking as a friend i will advise you to stay away from it till it is must, as sometimes i have seen little kids GI tract bcoming intolerant to regular water after regular use of RO at home and also some essential mineral deficiencies happening in body.

Now coming to ultrafilteration plant like permionics, you have another option in Hindustan Lever and Philips.

here is hindustan unilever link Pureit Water Purifier

RO and Ultra filterations are slow because the process itself to be point perfect requires time.

While UV also has a time attached to it but just the exposure principle is involved it is faster.

But that is not much bothersome as both RO and Ultra filteration systems have storage of about 4-12 liters according to models.

its been pleasure to offer any help that i can :D

feel free to throw any more queries if you have.
 
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Nice informative thread, but i missed out one biggie here last time i read it

bigbyte said:
I also feel that UV purifiers are not that much effective. They are surviving only on the basis of hardcore marketing. Waters in river is exposed to UV rays from sun for hours, that doesn't makes it ultra pure. Regular maintenance is very important for UV purifiers.

Ever heard of ozone by any chance :)

Why CFCs were banned etc.

We get UV, but no where as much as the sun puts out and also i'm thinking not at the same intensity that the Aqauguard UV lamp exposes its water to.

Provided of course and as you mentioned, the unit is well maintained & operational etc.

We still have the old steel aquaguard unit, did not bother with the flimsy plastic units that came out thereafter. We don't have a contract as the Aquaguard company refused to service the older units, pushing instead to sell the newer and more maintenance prone, ie more profitable units.

Well lots of ppl balked at that and it created a market for servicing the older units so we have a guy that comes on call, carbon gets changed every 6 months & candle is done annually. I'm curious about the better taster the RO units put out but will go with what medpal said regarding immnuity, especially with kids.

Thing is what about healthy adults that in theory have a fully functioning immune system. Proviso ofc is there are no kids, so not applicable to families.

I know a lot of ppl that don't bother with aquaguard at all, and just use a cheap candle & boil the water. Not too hard to do in BLR.
 
Hi there,

The explanation which you had given below was really useful to me, it was an eye opener.

I am convinced with Ultrafiltration.

Is Aquaguard Total Gold Nova advisable. Or can you give me details of any brand which has Ultrafilteration system in ti.

Awaiting your reply.

Regards,
Johnson

medpal said:
hmm

water purifier :

its a tricky insturment to own, maintain, run perfectly.

when i selected mine i too was confused a lot, expecially coming from medical background.

Lets first discuss types of water purifiers:

Reverse Osmosis (So called mineral water) plants :
they work on a principal that across a fine membrane there will be exchange of electrolytes which make a normal composition of potable water. they also remove the impurities.

Chemical or Ultra Violet based Units :
These units work on principle of disinfection by way or bacteriostatic reaction by means of chemical or ultraviolet light.

Ultra filteration:
these unit based of ultra fine (0.001) micron sized membrane which is capable of even removing Hepatitis B virus (enenthough the Hepatitis B transmission occurs through blood route, this is just a size comparison).

I surveyed a lot about the need of RO plants in indian setup.

What i found out after talking to research engineers of companies, internet and my personal inquiries, those places which receive good municipal supply of water with low PPM counts do not require the RO plants.

RO plants are required only in those places which receive deep seated ground water by means of borewell.

so if you are living in a good city with nice water supply you do not need RO plants.

second consideration for RO was whether it really is needed? now RO is a principle taken from human kidney, but the AI behind these machines is not that much smart so it can differentiate between usefull metals and toxic heavy metals. there are few metals which are really necessary to body and are sourced from water.
This in way lead to weak absorption quality of intesstines and may lead to problems when exposed to non treated water.
Now lets consider the UV machines:
These are as such good, but they do not destroy or remove the infective material, they just deactivate them and render the water temporarily clean for intake.
NOw if the container is contaminated or water storage is not proper or even if the consumers immunity is down, these infective organisms can be reactivated and can create the problem.

Now come the last type (Ultra Filteration):

these units are working on principle of passing the water through a ultra fine membrane which removes all the undissolved impurities and renders the water clean.

works excellently. those areas which have access to good clean municipal water should use it.

Now lets discuss the comparative scenario in relation to personal usage:

RO Plants :
cons:
upfront costing high
high to very high maintainance cost
too much breakdowns
lot of water wastage

Pros :
Removes almost everything you want it to remove
Imparts a good taste to water.
UV
Cons:
slow
does not remove completely the pathogens
water wastage
average maintainance costing

Ultra Filteration:
Cons:
does not alter the taste of water
cant be used with hard water

Pros:
Almost maintainance free
No electricity usage
Removes all the undissolved impurities including pathogens
So now comes the decision part:
I am using the last type Ultra filteration type and fully satisfied with it. As here in surat Our municipal corporation is providing good quality water so there is no need of RO for me and i found this one more full proof than UV ones.

One more point : this unit is made by permionics india limited and is not much marketed aggresively but if you get to try it do get a trial before installing any other machines.

Lastly : IIRC There is only one company in india which is making the filters for water treatment be it Ultrafilteration, RO or UV it is Permionics so any machine you take there will be one membrane working in all.

I do not have recent first hand knowledge about the companies in RO field right now but i would stay away from Eureka forbes for RO plants. Have seen quite a few machines failing.

any queries welcomed for discussion.

will answer them tomorrow. right now hungry and going to home.
 
Johnson,

IIRC aquaguard dont have any Ultrafilteration system with them in portfolio, I may be wrong with new products.

The two companies I know of in India are producing Ultrafilteration products:

Permionics the link manufacturer of reverse osmosis membranes, ultrafiltration, nanofiltration membrane wastewater recycle

Unilever (HLL). the link Pureit Water Purifier

Permionics units upfront cost is about 6000/- Rs. while their membrane lasts much longer.
HLL product costs about 2000/- but the cartridge with membrane needed to replace after x amount of water filtered.

Look in your city whichever is easily available you can go for.
 
I am convinced that Ultrafiltration is the best solution. More over should feel proud of your nation (BARC). I have seen guys trying to defend EF. They and thier systems are worst. They make you realise that you are a criminal, if you don't buy their products. They Keep knocking on door like beggars. I have seen a members quoting some specification from thier manual. A product manual and its ads will always says good things only. ISO 9001 certifiaction do not gurantee anything regarding which type of technique is correct. EF systems are way too expensive plus maintenance, AMC and don't know what all charges. Indians have habit of beliving in products which are good in marketing gimmicks and fooling people. EF systems are not worth even rs 2000.

If UV of sun throughout the day in riverbed, water tank, pipes etc can not purify the water and EF fools claim that thier 20 sec of UV purifies water like Amrit. Rediculous. Every one uses some or other kind of sun cream, lotion etc to avoid UV of sun. If that UV can not purify water, then it is not anything else but to be Allauddin Khilji to believe that 20 sec UV of aquaguard will purify it. May god save you guys from these marketing criminals of EF and absence of Govt regulatory authority to check/prevent such advertisements and a platform to regulate these water standards.

Medpal has nicely brought out the pro and cons of all the systems and choice has to yours. I have made my choice for ultrafilteration and ordered one from Pune to my place here in North Bengal, Bhutan Border. It took me more than 2 months to decide among the personal onslaught by EF guy here. Believe me it is DIY (do it yourself Type). You don't need anyone to install it only a wrench is required. If you can't do that also any plumber will fit that supplied T union to your tap. No maintenence, No electricity and after all no AMC. Pre filter, sediment & carbon cartridge etc are of Std 10" size and can be replaced from local market after a year or so. They will cost approx rs 180 - 250. The Uf filter needs replacement evry three years and UF filters costs arround rs 800 - 1000.

There are many small companies into manufacturing of these Ultra Filtration Dolphin domestic water purifiers after BARC authorised technology transfer to them. Mostly from Mumbai, Pune, Chennai and Rajasthan I came accross. These companies are small and not into any marketing, hence it is difficult to find them. Bear in your mind that you need no servicing or AMC by the company. Considering this, I purchased from pune. No problem, at all. I could easily install with given instructions and required stuff along with it. Some of these providers are given below. BARC site also can be refered.

Here they are:

dolphinuf - DOLPHIN UF
Rupali Industries
Water Purifier, Solar Product, Inverter, Power Saver, Energy Saver, Thane, India
Untitled Document
Portable Water Systems,Water Systems Exporter,Water Systems From India
 
If you are from Mumbai, Thane & near by area you can ask for Demo (Rupali Industries- BARC patent Water purifier) from Mr. Santosh Chavan call him on 09222353262 very experienced, dedicated & helpful person.
 
Hmm just got this noticed, I need a water purifier. Doc I have read a couple of your posts, I have an ancient aquaguard system, which I dont think is operating at its efficiency. So is the Perminioics solution the better one 3 years down the line from the thread?
 
^Aquaguard finally has a RO system - I saw one at my ex-boss's place last week when I was there. The product is essentially mineral water with a small storage system built into the unit to store it unlike most other systems which requires you to collect the output as it is produced. He told me the price was around the 13k mark. The water tasted good btw!
 
afaik kent has the best ro systems better than eureka forbes .

the main thing is that ro water tastes good and i like to drink more and more ro water .

i have an old aquaguard (Which category does it fall iin??) and i am thinking of buying a new ro system
 
I have been using Aqua gaurd for over 10 years, never faced any issues, earlier had the old blue model and from last few years have the new model. Have taken yearly AMC and once in 3 months their guy will come to check the unit and clean and replace the filters if necessary. In my last 10 years of ownership i have not faced any issues.
 
Emperor said:
Consider Rupali Industries BARC (Govt. of India) developed Ultra filtration Membrane technology water purifiers before deciding.
Cheap quality material used, just after 1 month of use water flow decrease to drops, service person visit 2-3 times, fix it but continuous water flow can't long last than 15 minutes & again water flow tuns in to drops. Not recommend for house who have more than 2 members & need more than 8 lits. water in 8 hrs.
 
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