Car & Bike Ather scooters
- Thread starter awestorr
- Start date
This. ICE has good highway efficiency + "unlimited" range, so is perfect for outstation trips.
It's only in traffic that they are a problem: even with a small battery, the city mileage of a hubrid can go up drastically.
If only EV systems could be retrofitted to existing ICE vehicles to make them hybrid...
The problem is you need to pay for EV components as well as ICE components so the price goes up, so fewer people will actually buy it.
We do not need a one size fits all solution: use the right technology for the right scenario.
- 99.9% of scooters will be used within city only, such users can switch to EV. Increased adoption will eventually lead to better charging infrastructure
- Most vehicles (cars/cabs/buses) that are used inside the city can switch to EV.
- The fraction of 2W/4W who actually go on 150+ km highway trips can stick to ICE until fast chargers /battery swaps are available in every corner of the country or a big ass battery becomes inexpensive. A 900km roudtrip in ~16 hrs can be done by my ICE car with only 2 short refueling stops. This is simply impossible with current EV tech
It's funny you used trains as the poster kid for ICE. Trains have been "electric" for a long time now.
- there are no "diesel" trains like there are "diesel" cars where the engine is mechanically coupled with the driven wheels
- Current "diesel" trains use the ICE as an onboard generator to produce electricity, which then power motors to turn the wheels
- Older "diesel" trains have a hydraulic drive, which uses diesel engine as a hydraulic pump. These produces insane levels of torque as well
- The "electric" trains use electricity from overhead lines
desiibond
Skilled
Reference is from the time when we started getting electric trains to replace diesel engine trains. Reference was with respect to the difference in torque being available from get go and how quicker electric trains used to be.
Not interested in going into pointless ‘diesel vs electric engine’ trains discussion neither am I interested in knowing more about diesel engine trains.
Emperor
Skilled
desiibond
Skilled
Hybrid is not a future. It is present. In laws were going for an MUV and I was able to convince them to go with Innova Hycross Hybrid. Amazing engine man. Peteol kicks in only when vehicle hoes above 30 or when battery is low. They are very happy with the mileage. Toyota service is just the icing on the cake.
Emperor
Skilled
Maruti Suzuki and Toyota till recently was pressing very hard for Hybrid Vehicles as they didn't expect any future for EVs but now news came that they are working on EVs.
Bajaj already launch Hybrid or FlexFuel Bike and inline to introduce more in coming months.
some brand do not have EVs or not selling EVs in India and 2-3 have EVs and OLA leader in Indian EV market missing from chart
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Torque converters produce maximum torque when wheel (output shaft) is stationary i.e @ 0 rpm, just like electric motors. That was what I was hinting at.
Lack of toque is not the limiting factor in trains. There's very little traction (grip) between the metal wheel and the metal track and it is very easy to cause wheelspin. Electric trains have automatic systems to finely control wheel speed and minimize wheelspin, which results in better acceleration. Think of this as traction control on cars.
So it's not a question about Electric torque vs diesel torque. It's about Traction Control. If not for their massive weight, locomotives would have no grip at all from the miniscule metal-metal contact. In fact even Steam engines can wheelspin at 100+ kmph, so clearly lack of torque was not an issue even a century ago.
You just mean to say you don't want your incorrect assumption/reasoning pointed out, and you just want to continue saying random, unrelated stuff to appear knowledgeable. I don't care if you don't want to learn, that is your choice, but if I see misinformation, I'll call you out on it. OTOH if I'm mistaken I welcome critique, I'm always happy to learn.
A little learning is a dangerous thing.
blr_p
Skilled
As far as the stock market is concerned Ola is a run away success. The marketing hype keeps a steady stream of customers applying to get an Ola vehicle.
The market is disconnected or not affected by negative reviews.
?dOuBtFiRe?
Adept
All negative news about service for now, will be evaporated by this news.
Business Standard
Business Standard
You right but not entirely.
If what you say was wholly right, then in my torque converter automatic I wouldn't need to press the accelerator to get my stationary vehicle moving up the ramp.
Emperor
Skilled
Ola appointed Prabhakar Patil, former chief executive officer of LG Chem Power .... Read more
Hyun Shik Park, a battery manufacturing specialist who spent more than 36 years in South Korean conglomerate LG, had the biggest compensation package in the Ola Electric universe in the last financial year. Read Here
desiibond
Skilled
Oh boy. Like minded people attract each other. Wasn't Prabhakar Patil leading LG Chem when their plant in Vizag had major gas leak that caused atleast dozen died and thousands affected?
Are you saying a stationary EV will climb a ramp without Accelerator input?
While a Creep function can be implemented on any vehicle to aid in stop and go traffic, letting it use so much power that it can climb an incline by itself seems dangerous.
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Well my automatic does creep without any accelerator input on flat ground, and also up to a certain level of gradient. Any further steeper slope and it requires a minute pedal press.
The steeper the slope (and/or the greater number of people/luggage), the more I have to press the pedal.
Drive a diesel manual, they have oodles of torque at idle to do this too.
- EV can produce XXX Nm of torque at stand still. But unless you give 100% accelerator, it's not actually producing XXX Nm, if it did that by itself, it would be catastrophic.
- EV cars try to replicate the behaviour of ICE cars and implement the creep function for creature comfort
- Some EV cars don't have this feature and require a slight press of the A pedal to get moving
- The 0 rpm wrt Torque Converter refers to wheel speed, not ICE rpm. A running engine has to maintain a certain minimum rpm else it will stall. Usually idle rpm is 600-1000 for cars
- The greater the difference between it's input shaft (engine rpm) and output shaft (wheel rpm), the greater the torque multiplication effect in TC.
- Unlike EV, where motor rpm:wheel rpm ratio is fixed, ICE can be revved before releasing the brake to accelerate harder/start on an incline when loaded.
Coming to EV scooters, I don't think any of them have creep function, so when stopped with 0 accelerator input, it's not gonna move on its own
Just for further clarifications, (I hope this helps all those who are technically inclined):
1) At maximum slip conditions, the torque converter amplifies the torque, but by how much?
2) Also, this maximum slip condition can typically be sustained for how long before the friction and heat destroy the transmission box?
3) In some configuration of motors, there is almost infinite torque (subject to current bearing capacity and heat dissipation capacity) available at 0 RPM (hence it is equivalent to using animal / muscles power), in ICE vehicle we need to race up till the RPM at which highest torque is available and reduce the clutch slip to gently let the wheel start spinning. All that would be avoided in electric motor-based traction (of course only for the "series motor" design). What I know is that most of the 2-wheeler, 4-wheelers and even locomotive don't use this motor.
awestorr
Adept
@desiibond i went to the dealership last week and he quoted me 3500 for rto registration charges as opposed to 1100 shown in ather website .
is this common or am i getting ****ed by them?
is this common or am i getting ****ed by them?
atg666
Disciple
With pure EVs, the range anxiety, and charging point infrastructure will be a major factor in their acceptance. Both of these are taking longer to implement than expected.
Strong Hybrid drivetrains are the need of the day. Taxing Hybrids to the moon and back, in order to prevent their sales (and encourage EV sales) is a dick move on the part of the govt.
Look at F1. They have hybrid IC engines running at ~50% efficiency.
Till then, the auto start stop, DPF, and all other additions to keep ICEs' pollution quotient lower, is all hogwash. It just increases prices for the end user, while not being of much benefit the environment.