Audio Audiophile and gears

You and dissel both suggested really good options to explore. Undoubtedly D70s is better option to buy in India.
It is me who asked for some crazy requirements. I intend to use a desktop amp with two DACs - like output from my internal sound card and some other portable dac like jcally.
Hence I thought of something stupid like this.
Balanced XLR and single ended RCA is available with every amp.
 
Nitendra Singh said:
You and dissel both suggested really good options to explore. Undoubtedly D70s is better option to buy in India.
It is me who asked for some crazy requirements. I intend to use a desktop amp with two DACs - like output from my internal sound card and some other portable dac like jcally.
Hence I thought of something stupid like this.
Balanced XLR and single ended RCA is available with every amp.
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If you feel tempted to spend D70s Level - My suggestion wait for 2022, There Fiio's All IN ONE offering

K9 = ESS 9068 AS x2 (Still under R&D)
K9 Pro = ESS 9038 x2 (Hope this is not Q2M but actual 9038 Pro version)
K9 Pro LTD = AKM 4499 x1 (Flagship, only 2000 units worldwide due to No Fab Facility)

All are THX Tech with MQA renderer inbuilt.
 
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dissel said:
If you feel tempted to spend D70s Level - My suggestion wait for 2022, There Fiio's All IN ONE offering

K9 = ESS 9068 AS x2
K9 Pro = ESS 9038 x2
K9 Pro LTD = AKM 4499 x1 (Flagship, only 2000 units worldwide due to No Fab Facility)

All are THX Tech with MQA renderer inbuilt - K9 is still under R&D.
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No way, I won't be spending 65k on d70s.
I already know about this K9 Pro and very much excited about it.
As you have info about three variants its even more fun.
Eagerly waiting for this one, any info on release date.
 
Nitendra Singh said:
No way, I won't be spending 65k on d70s.
I already know about this K9 Pro and very much excited about it.
As you have info about three variants its even more fun.
Eagerly waiting for this one, any info on release date.
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Expected release date September 2021 to Spring 2022,Fiio didn’t clear the actual pricing.

As per the trend of pricing as well as tax and tariff king as India become,

If all of them got THX788+ treatment

Expected Price to my view

K9 (ESS 9068) = 50 to 65K
K9 Pro (ESS 9038) = 70 to 85K
K9 Pro LTD (AKM 4499) = 1 to 1.3L

Will be very very glad if I prove wrong about price approximation.



 
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Ouch!! It must be really difficult to be an audiophile in India.
But I don't understand why someone should pay so much for AKM 4499 over ESS 9038.
I have the D90 with the AKM and heard the new special edition with ESS 9038 in a store.
The D90 SE is a freaking beast and ESS 9038 is a spectacular DAC with some unique capabilities.
Topping used eight (8!) OPA 1612A for the I/V conversion stage, meaning that all 8-channels of this DAC chip are being used. Meaning that D90SE performs an independent I/V conversion for all 8 channels and then connects them in parallel, squeezing the best this silicon is capable of.
I find this implementation REALLY amazing. The D90 SE can output 5V through XLR!!
Ofcourse I couldn't hear any difference between the D90 and D90 SE, but technically SE is a better product ( not considering the MQA, can't care less about this lousy scam)
Moreover if someone is expecting the typical AKM warmth in this price segment, he/ she will be thoroughly disappointed. As these lines of discrete amp and DACs ( specially from Topping) is not geared towards audiophiles, but for studio use.
4499 in D90 is neither warm nor cold. I've paired it with both Drop THX789 and A90. The former is typical of THX sound ( bright, very detailed with a low end that's extremely fast and never ever encroaches to mid frequencies)
A90 is slightly easier for casual listening sessions with a touch of added warmth. Human voice in audiobooks/ podcasts sounds more natural. Too sharp ( even to my ears) with THX.
Not many audiophiles like this sound signature.
 
I was comparing the HD600 and 6XX with some planars (upto Ananda) using a cheap transportable amp DAC combo ( Xduoo 05 basic) for last 3 days.
I could totally understand the infamous "veil" with my desktop set up earlier.
Now it's pretty obvious with an entry level amp dac VERY clearly.
Purely for sound, all the hifiman planars from 400SE to Ananda 2021 sounds way more open, clear and MUCH BETTER than Sennheiser/ Drop 600/6XX...even with a 150 EUR amp DAC!!
Hifiman is really killing it...LCD X ( the old one, a slightly dark but detailed enough can) is not bad, but I really do like the non darker sound of hifiman.
The only Hifiman is bothering me is the Sundara....it definitely doesn't have the required low end. Can bet on one thing...if the reviewers were not aware of the pricings, all of them would rate Deva higher than Sundara.
The 2021 Ananda is definitely the best and totally justifies the price.
It's the perfect laidback headphones I've ever tried.
Another sleeper headphone is the K702, even with a cheap amp, I find it much more enjoyable than the HD6XX/600.
Still love the HD600, but it has been surpassed by a lot of much cheaper headphones.
Sennheiser badly need a much better headphone under 1000 EUR.
P.S All my previous assessment of headphones were based on very expensive (in India) DAC and desktop amps. I didn't have much idea about the Indian pricings of the components and certainly wouldn't spend 1.5L INR for desktop audio set up.
Now I'm re-testing some headphones with a reasonably priced set up of around 12K INR, so some of the observation may change. I sincerely apologise for that.
 
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But the thing is, that fans of HD600/6XX/650, love those headphones, just because of that supposed veil or the laidback sound signature. People who like more brighter, neutral sound, won't like the 650s and therefore, there is no reason to say, that one is better or worse than the other. The sound signature, a person likes is the most important factor when it comes to choosing an audio device, and something I always ask first whenever someone asks for advice.
Most people say that Grados are the best headphones for Rock music. But still, they won't work for everyone even if they only listen to rock music (like me).
The only thing I don't like in India is the inability to audition high end stuff before buying. Even my HD650 purchase was without any audition, and thankfully, I liked how they sound but I doubt I'll buy an expensive headphone again without auditioning.

Edit - Whenever someone is comparing headphones, they should talk about their characteristics in depth instead of saying that this is better than that. It just doesn't work that way in the audio world, IMHO. It also helps if one lists the songs they used and what differences they could hear in those songs with the different devices being compared. That would help a lot more people because then the person reading the review can decide which device fits the kind of sound they like.
 
rdst_1 said:
But the thing is, that fans of HD600/6XX/650, love those headphones, just because of that supposed veil or the laidback sound signature. People who like more brighter, neutral sound, won't like the 650s and therefore, there is no reason to say, that one is better or worse than the other. The sound signature, a person likes is the most important factor when it comes to choosing an audio device, and something I always ask first whenever someone asks for advice.
Most people say that Grados are the best headphones for Rock music. But still, they won't work for everyone even if they only listen to rock music (like me).
The only thing I don't like in India is the inability to audition high end stuff before buying. Even my HD650 purchase was without any audition, and thankfully, I liked how they sound but I doubt I'll buy an expensive headphone again without auditioning.

Edit - Whenever someone is comparing headphones, they should talk about their characteristics in depth instead of saying that this is better than that. It just doesn't work that way in the audio world, IMHO. It also helps if one lists the songs they used and what differences they could hear in those songs with the different devices being compared. That would help a lot more people because then the person reading the review can decide which device fits the kind of sound they like.
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I think the word better should be inferred as Preferred or the same word should be used. End of the day its all opinions , as you mentioned one man's bright is other guys neutral or super detailed and likewise. Resolution, Bass quantity and Soundstage can still be quantified across I feel to some extent , but then that also has to be taken with a pinch of salt since it is very much dependent on the chain and the synergy it builds with the headphone/speaker.
 
I try not to describe the sound because of the very reason you mentioned mate. Subjective preference.
Can describe sound very well with frequencies as I have to remember common instruments' frequencies for mixing/ mastering.
I shouldn't have used the word veil in my post. It's basically the dip from 2-5kHz in HD600 and 6XX. I've not heard the 650 carefully and never had it and should not assume anything.
This 2-5kHz dip is not present in HD560S, but it has a peak around 4kHz.
All newer Hifiman headphones is pretty much a straight line from 3kHz to 15kHz (I've significant loss of hearing at and around 17kHz, so 16-18kHz is purely visual representation to me at 0dB in FabFilter ProQ3 and Neutron 3's EQ...and these EQ's are used in almost every studio worldwide)
You can cross check with Sonarwork's calibration SW ( think it has a free trial...rather expensive but great SW)
Ananda 2021 is a very laidback headphone, but this nature is achieved by physical properties and positioning of the drivers, not suppressing a particular frequency range.

BTW I also love the HD600, specially the ruler flat mids, lush male vocals etc. and keep on using it. But it doesn't mean I won't appreciate a much inexpensive headphone which is better both subjectively and objectively.
Even 5 years ago it was impossible to get a planar headphone under 200 EUR, we all must appreciate what hifiman is doing with their inexpensive headphones (compare Audeze LCD1 and hifiman he400 SE...for people who haven't heard LCD1...it's one of the worst planar headphone ever made, even Audeze's hundreds of paid reviews couldn't help it...they marketed it as a mixing pro grade headphone, the only good thing about it was the nice case)
fLUX said:
I think the word better should be inferred as Preferred or the same word should be used. End of the day its all opinions , as you mentioned one man's bright is other guys neutral or super detailed and likewise. Resolution, Bass quantity and Soundstage can still be quantified across I feel to some extent , but then that also has to be taken with a pinch of salt since it is very much dependent on the chain and the synergy it builds with the headphone/speaker.
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Very good points. There are so many misconceptions in the audio world. Like a dark headphone can not be detailed.
The LCD 2 is a dark headphone, but it was one of the most detailed one I've ever heard.
Likewise SHP9500 is a bright headphone with definite treble emphasis but it's not that detailed at all.
I can give a small example of how to test detail retrieval.
There's a brief airport announcement in the beginning of On The Run (Dark Side of the Moon- Floyd)...if a headphone can make that announcement clean enough to understand, it has adequate detail retrieval.
Not many can do this.
 
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I think planar in headphone world is same as balanced armature in iem world. They lack dynamics and bass slam but at the same time are much faster in speed and transient response. Dynamic drivers lack speed and those which are fast lack organic signature most users crave for especially in budget range.
 
Even 5-6 years back planars were famous for their bass and slam ( specially in the 20-50 Hz region) and most dynamic drivers had below 50 Hz roll off.
I had a HE500 which was heavy as ****, extremely difficult to drive. But it had true sub bass and real slam when driven by speaker amps.
I've heard 2 newer planars with real bass punch, but both are very expensive and really power hungry...LCD 4 and Susvara.
To make them efficient and more mainstream, they are using really thin diaphragm and lighter magnets.. possibly it's causing the departure from typical orthodynamic sound.
And dynamic drivers have improved a LOT over the years.
However without hifiman, there are not many inexpensive planar headphones even today.
Wish hifiman now starts to manufacture inexpensive electrostatic headphones ( I know they will by 2025)
Till date, I had only 2 electrostatic headphones, a very old used Stax ( the energizer doesn't work anymore) and a thoroughly modified one from Koss ( which now makes a clearly audible buzzing noise) Was really tempted to buy another from drop, but thankfully that obsession didn't last beyond a few weeks.
Anyone here using Stax or any other electrostatic headphones? Do you find the transients a little too fast?
BTW this is George's review of Deva. A respectable member from headfi...he has a website called audiophile heaven ( He's Romanian, but tries to speak and write in English)
 
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Yeah have heard of George but he is exactly the kind of person who likes everything because of free review samples..

The type of reviews I usually stay away from, he just licks Chinese brands a** day and night on that forum.
 
Nalin said:
Yeah have heard of George but he is exactly the kind of person who likes everything because of free review samples..

The type of reviews I usually stay away from, he just licks Chinese brands a** day and night on that forum.
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Nope, he bought the 400SE for almost double the price ( 300 EUR) and all the hifiman headphones upto Sundara bought all the xDuoo products.
There are reasons to love some Chinese products...I have MANY EU and USA made headphones, desktop amps but love hifiman and Topping products over way more expensive offerings from Sennheiser to Audeze.
Will give a simple example...try to A/B between Mojo and the old Topping NX4s or even the XD05 basic with a somewhat demanding headphone like LCD X. Chord's bullshit will appear in seconds.
I have a lot of respect for Sennheiser for their after sales service and general friendly approach ( same with Beyer) but they are falling behind in the sound department, which is pretty obvious after 20 years in this hobby.
Cannot comment on the IEM scene as everything decent sounds same to me now.
But speakers and full sized cans are different. Specially planar cans, as we were the generation who witnessed the gradual progress of the driver technology.
Zeos is someone who loves everything. But love him because he doesn't pretend to know much about science of audio/ production techniques and doesn't hesitate to point out how a brand like Chord rips people off. He is not about measurements but all about how the music makes him feel.
DMS on the other hand is all about FRCs and hates 90 percent of common audiophile headphones (and loves studio headphones, which is understandable due to his place of work and the general distaste for Harman curve among people who spend hours in a studio for living...not a single textbook of mixing/ mastering deals with such ridiculous curves and all...in studios everything is much simpler...give every instrument and sound a breathing space with a preferably reductive EQ..that's it...if you can do that with a breathing space of -10dB in your master bus for the mastering engineer...you will keep on getting work after work....that's it...no one expects Superior Drummer 3 to sound like Bonzo's thunder...if you been in studios, you know what I mean...if not..just enjoy the music with whatever gear you can afford)

Honestly I like people who never denies their experience for a brand. There is a thread in ASR forum where a guy is looking for a hifiman headphone as he can get some store discount as he was returning a defective one from them.
Almost everyone was trying to convince him to get HD6XX/ 600/650 over Sundara. And I can bet more than half of them haven't heard the Sundara once ( just gathering random info from reviews)
If head fi was a little bit serious and organised their site properly it would have been a far superior forum. Some members there are really awesome, they will never rec you something that they didn't use thoroughly.
I will forever be grateful to some of those people who made me buy the DT880 600 ohm version. It sounds completely different from the lower impedance models and heavenly with good amps ( but good amps for 600 ohm headphones is limited...they warned me against Schiit stacks/ anything with BB DAC..it's either THX789 or D90...and they were correct..so damn correct) It's possibly the most used headphones for me nowadays, but won't recommend them to other ( though it's better in every aspect over HD6XX series, but needs abnormal power)
 
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Senn HD650 at 22,495/- at Amazon

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