Ayurveda for Diabetes and Metabolic Disorders at IISc

[TEUser2K1]

Why provide the more expensive modern meds when people will stupidly take outdated meds that cost but a fraction. More money to be pocketed here.

Doing the right thing here:

Govt bans 156 fixed-dose combination drugs administered as painkillers, antibiotics

Central Government bans 156 combination drugs due to safety concerns, including painkillers, multivitamins, and antibiotics, among others.

www.thehindu.com

Why impose Hindi of all languages? Impose English.

Agree with this. Add local mother tongue too..
Give optional additional marks to those who are interested to learn other languages.

 

[roadrash99]

Accept what works, can ignore what does not work at all. Now, follow your own comments:

^^ Answer to this question is in your own comment:

I said the THEORY of ayurveda is illogical and unscientific and most importantly, unprovable. I did not say that knowledge of herbs and techniques is also illogical. Anything in Ayurveda that works can and is being assimilated into modern medicine. Ayurvedic research institutions funded by the government are trying to do this through their trials. So there is no potential being left on the table. It's just that people think there is a treasure trove of revolutionary medicines in there when in reality the trials are disappointing. So it's the over-hype by babas and ayurvedic practitioners that is causing this perception.

 

[TEUser2K1]

I said the THEORY of ayurveda is illogical and unscientific and most importantly, unprovable.

Agree with this to a good extend, however it was knowledge of it's own time which was eons earlier.

I did not say that knowledge of herbs and techniques is also illogical.

Okay, good...! so now, from where does this knowledge came from in Ayurveda ?

Anything in Ayurveda that works can and is being assimilated into modern medicine.

Right, agree. This is only what am saying too. But to say Ayurveda totally is merely dumb text to start with, will not help it.
To have two ways about this is called hypocrisy which is innocuously alleged against me by another gentile man.

Ayurvedic research institutions funded by the government are trying to do this through their trials. So there is no potential being left on the table.

In India they started comparatively recently. In west they did much earlier and wanted patents on those natural herbs and whatever?
To say no more potential is left is where I start disagreeing. We haven't even touched the tip of possibilities, nor are following proper scientific methods.
Then are also being wet blanketed more by new age useful idiots by those with vested interest.
It became a patent war and India cannot attend to a volley of such barrage attacks.
Indian and other herbal market is worth billions in other countries. I personally know people from local regions who are exporting these so claimed 'useless concoctions' and making millions.

It's just that people think there is a treasure trove of revolutionary medicines in there when in reality the trials are disappointing. So it's the over-hype by babas and ayurvedic practitioners that is causing this perception.

See am totally not into babas of any kind, nor into pseudo science side of Ayurveda.
Am into scientifically gleaning information from whatever texts available, give it deserved respect and do proper research so that desperate people can get cure and help.
I mean, am not into ideological puritan nomenclature bullshit rather being pragmatic about what helps humanity.

 

[roadrash99]

From where does this knowledge came from in Ayurveda ?

No doubt through experimentation. If the theory was sound then the treatments that didn't work would have been discarded by Ayurveda itself, but they are not discarded in the name of tradition. People in the past tried all sorts of things, herbs, techniques, practices over thousands of years. Some of it works some of it doesn't work. If you think that they were able to achieve some understanding of the human body that modern medicine has not been able to deduce, then it must show in the theoretical fundamentals of Ayurveda. You should read the Ayurveda texts yourself, they are easily available online, it will become clear that it's a product of its time and some extremely incorrect things are mentioned in there.

In India they started comparatively recently. In west they did much earlier and wanted patents on those natural herbs and whatever?

Patents have nothing to do with science, patents are only for business purposes. You can patent completely useless things that don't have any benefit as long as you are the first to file the patent. Patent trolling happens in all fields and those people basically apply for large number of broad vague patents so that in the odd chance some beneficial use is discovered, they can file a legal case and make money. That doesn't mean that the thing is useful. What Indian government is doing is also the same thing. The patent every herb mentioned in Ayurveda, not just those that have been proven to work. So this is a completely different topic.

 

[TEUser2K1]

No doubt through experimentation.

Hmm...

If the theory was sound then the treatments that didn't work would have been discarded by Ayurveda itself, but they are not discarded in the name of tradition

mOkay...

I did not say that knowledge of herbs and techniques is also illogical.

People in the past tried all sorts of things, herbs, techniques, practices over thousands of years. Some of it works some of it doesn't work

So, that which works is logical ? Or totally farce ? What is it ?
Shall we use what that works or totally throw it with out just because those information comes from Ayurveda texts ?

If you think that they were able to achieve some understanding of the human body that modern medicine has not been able to deduce, then it must show in the theoretical fundamentals of Ayurveda.

Where was modern medicine thousands of years earlier when Ayurveda was being 'experimented' ? There was no modern science developed anywhere to autocorrect Ayurveda, so it evolved with it's own issues.
That is why I said, it was knowledge of those times. Merely ignoring it, mocking it, etc. by some parties is not being helpful to humanity, that is all.

Patents have nothing to do with science, patents are only for business purposes.

That is not what proponents of patents claim.

You can patent completely useless things that don't have any benefit as long as you are the first to file the patent.

You can patent completely useful things too.

What Indian government is doing is also the same thing. The patent every herb mentioned in Ayurveda, not just those that have been proven to work. So this is a completely different topic.

Isn't Indian govt. stance against patent on living things ?

 

[roadrash99]

So, that which works is logical ? Or totally farce ? What is it ?
Shall we use what that works or totally throw it with out just because those information comes from Ayurveda texts ?

If it works it works. Modern medicine readily adopts treatments that work clinically even if there is no mechanism understood behind it. For example penicillin was discovered by accident and it was proven to work clinically, there was no understanding of how exactly the drug acts on bacteria, yet it was adopted. So modern medicine never shies away from using things without explanation and it will readily steal anything from Ayurveda that is proven to work.

That is why I said, it was knowledge of those times. Merely ignoring it, mocking it, etc. by some parties is not being helpful to humanity, that is all.

I am also saying the same, and like I said, it is not being ignored, on the contrary it is getting excessive resources from the government when compared to what it's able to give back in terms of results.

That is not what proponents of patents claim.
Isn't Indian govt. stance against patent on living things ?

No you are wrong about this, please look this up a bit more, anyway this is not the main topic here so I won't go in depth.

 

[TEUser2K1]

So modern medicine never shies away from using things without explanation and it will readily steal anything from Ayurveda that is proven to work.

Good, this is how it should be, at least we reached some balanced approach on this. Liked the word you used, what I dislike is the when thief says they don't steal and is a puritan satyavaan, and when the stolen asset was his from the beginning

 

[n1r0]

I got 3 Pfizer mRNA vaccine dozes much earlier than most Indians could, payed a hefty amount for that due to some logistic reasons (not legal), got mildly severe reaction from it.

Did you just confess to bribing to get vaccines out of turn?​

Before doctors, before medical staff and before essential workers, that actually NEEDED them?

Everything that works n1r0 is modern medicine, even if sourced from ayurveda.
When fails, starts to stymie other person, as mentioned earlier.

I do not care whether it's modern medicine/Ayur/Homeo, as long as it actually works.
More research = more discoveries = more options for everyone.
If something is indistinguishable from placebo, it's not really medicine.

Here comes the name calling side, as mentioned earlier. Side effect of being modern mandate believer probably.
Still you are here, whining at trolls following your dumb instinct.

Just speaking your own tongue to help you understand. Logic clearly doesn't work

 

[TEUser2K1]

Did you just confess to bribing to get vaccines out of turn?​

Before doctors, before medical staff and before essential workers, that actually NEEDED them?

This is the problem with people like you.
When you utterly fail in topic of discussion and get exposed, people like you fail further and try to personally attack other party. If you read the comment, it's already mentioned the expense was not about legality. It was about logistics of reaching the place where I can get it, correcting my records to prove my eligibility. In fact, I made my records more legal and ethical to get vaccine (like correcting phone numbers, etc. etc.), but had to travel for that.
But, this is irrelevant of the primary topic of discussion. Further proving how much a failure you are as as a human being.
You are forgetting that you are in a debate not in an argument in this whole thread, no problem, it will take some time to mature, threads like these may help at-least little bit.

I do not care whether it's modern medicine/Ayur/Homeo, as long as it actually works.

Duh !!! Suddenly you got enlightened by me now ? lolz.
Neither do I care about this, but you explicitly care to dismiss any merits in Ayurveda.
Hypocrite is the right word apart from being purposefully naive and ignorant, but you do you.

Just speaking your own tongue to help you understand. Logic clearly doesn't work

Good that you are learning to think right way , if you go forward like this, I'll have to admit you're becoming self aware. lolz.

 

[n1r0]

payed a hefty amount for that due to some logistic reasons (not legal)

This could be understood that the reasons were not legal.

And I'm getting heat from the guy who doesn't know the spelling of "paid"

Yes, I have failed. You clearly are better at confounding people than I am at understanding them.

Duh !!! Suddenly you got enlightened by me now ? lolz.

Didn't realize you were a Bodhi tree. Go read my first reply to this thread before making yourself more of a fool and showing that you can neither read nor write, but eager to call names.

 

[TEUser2K1]

This could be understood that the reasons were not legal.

You purposefully ignored and didn't highlight "due to some" part of the sentence, which could've made a difference in your understanding. Willful ignorance is innate with your comments anyways.

And I'm getting heat from the guy who doesn't know the spelling of "paid"

English is not my native language, I made a linguistic error.
Regret the error and discomfort caused to you in this total discussion because of that.
However this is not at all related to core topic of discussion, but as predicted earlier is another failed personal attack, again proving yourself more of a huamn failure.

Didn't realize you were a Bodhi tree. Go read my first reply to this thread before making yourself more of a fool and showing that you can neither read nor write, but eager to call names.

I admit my lack of linguistic skills in being more nastier than you.
So, this is how it ends... lolz.

 

[puns]

Stay on point and no need of finger pointing. If cant then this will be locked soon

 

[kiran6680]

I am also saying the same, and like I said, it is not being ignored, on the contrary it is getting excessive resources from the government when compared to what it's able to give back in terms of results.

Right. In fact, much worse things are getting lots of resources on research : https://www.telegraphindia.com/indi...andrayaan-clashes-with-cow-wisdom/cid/1972995

On the other hand, courts are observing there are very little resources for testing what we are eating, and having to ask governments to start actually testing : https://www.newindianexpress.com/ci...up-testing-of-food-products-delhi-hc-to-fssai

 

[Neotheone]

The kind of personal attacks on this site is disappointing to anyone who has been here in the more civil times of the past. Maybe its because everyone is just a little bit too sure of the scientific method now, and ignorant of its limitations, even if there is a long way to learn and improve for modern medicines to have a better grasp at the complex systems that human bodies are. Also, popular scientific narrative is usually blind to heuristics.

In terms of the arrogance and personal attacks, it seems that social media culture has had its impact.

 

[mallik]

Ayurveda is based on three doshas - vaat, pitta, and kafa. It has no scientific basis to it, from our current understanding of human physiology. So, unless Ayurveda evolves into a scientific pursuit based on proper rigour, I will be suspicious of it. As I am suspicious of doctors because of their intent. But more so of Ayurveda because of its flawed basis. Comparing modern medicine to Ayurveda is like comparing astronomy to astrology.

Ayurveda is comparable to the miasma theory of medicine in the West. The Western theory later evolved to Germ theory and beyond. But Ayurveda is still practised as it was, when Charak and Sushruta wrote about it.

As for Ayurveda and diabetes/metabolic disorders - we know that it talks of Prameha/Madhumeha. It says Type I diabetes is incurable/untreatable. But modern science has a way of treating Type I patients, to lead a normal life. So, clearly there is more merit to using modern medicine for diabetes treatment. That means diet, exercise, lifestyle and medicine based on proper diagnosis and monitoring. Not some prameha pitta Dosha.

So, rather than weaponising and regressing our Scientific institutions to glorify Indian culture, we should put money and effort in scientific research. Don’t see that happening - considering this is a tech forum, and people still have a regressive attitude/aptitude trying to defend their confirmation biases and beliefs.

From Wiki
“Allopathic medicine, or allopathy, is an archaic and derogatory label originally used by 19th-century homeopaths to describe heroic medicine, the precursor of modernevidence-based medicine.”

Quoting this as well:

Anecdotal evidence is a term referring to evidence that is collected in a non-scientific manner and supported by isolated, specific instances of an event. It relies on personal testimonies rather than on scientific evidence, and, consequently, is considered as the weakest type of evidence.

In the world of advertising and marketing, anecdotal evidence is known as testimonials.

The anecdotal fallacy is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone argues on the basis of anecdotal evidence. It’s an extremely common type of error found in a wide variety of arguments. Moreover, it is often committed due to a lack of argumentation skills, however, it can be used intentionally as a debate tactic.

I rest my case

 

[TEUser2K1]

@mallik
If one actually read my comments, am not in any manner into glorifying Ayurveda, it's legacy, the methodology and principles behind it, etc. Similarly, am not into disparaging it also. (Even-though in real life, it have personally helped those close to me tremendously).

I am being pragmatic about that, if there are some herbs or compounds or anything that is of interest to human being, it might be scientifically tested, if found working should be used as medicine for service of humanity. Just because it's written in an ayurvedic or unani or any ancient text does not mean it should be castigated, blocked or ignored. Use modern scientific method and research to find it, not archaic or occult like methods, aka be as practical as modern age requires.

I understand our current methods are not working properly. Reason why my first comment in this thread was about real world effectiveness of two drugs which are already introduced by govt. supported agencies. Couldn't find any real world results from anyone, I couldn't trust it.

I prefer to be agnostic in politics, similar topics and want to see things in humanist perspective in general, ignoring nitigrities. As everyone else, I too have opinions, some people seems to dislike it, but I'm not to impose my idea on anyone or trying to prove am only right. Would like to see both sides of arguments, but seems it goes against the grain here sometimes. Anyways, am not one to hold grudge about all this, it's not worth it on a simple online forum.

 

[eTernity2021]

From My Personal Experience, Common Man Experience,

Allopathy is good for surgery, urgent antibiotics treatment for any damages gathered as a result of VIRUS attack, ( they have no solution for VIRUSES, they have solutions only for Bacterial attacks in human body )

Ayurvedic is much deeper than Western Science, AYURVEDA is based on VATA (Vayu), PITA(Fire) and Kaba(Liquid) as our body's main ministry is these three BOODHAS, 2 other Boodhas are Akash and Soil, Soil is referred as Bone and Bone Marrow, AKASH is referred with our Breath, its a shallow knowledge, coz the Problem is it is advanced than science, it is more than Science, it is governed by the almighty being DHANVANTRI, is the God of Ayurveda...

Ayurveda is Mixture of Spiritual Science, Mantras and Herbals, Ayurvedic Doctors can Sense your Fear, Greed, Anger, and their relevant damages in important Organs in any Human's body by READING THEIR Pulse, they just not only cure your diseases, they help prepare the patients living body to ascend to the next dimension (Say 4th Dimension) by cleansing the TOXICITY they have gathered for Many LIFETIMES (not only this lifetime), As the advanced Indian Human Beings make use of such Boon to cleanse their body, and render it to YOGA and Then subject their soul to DHYAN that is MEDITATION to ascend to the LORD'S ABODE. Hence its not just WESTERN SCIENCE its above that.... Diabetes is only a toxicity to be cleaned by Ayurvedic herbals,

Having said that, DIABETES is not part of Indian Public until British invaded Indian Sub-Continent, Diabetes mostly appears in NON-VEG eaters(eating CORPSE ), Alcohol consumers, Non-workers, SEX freaks, coz those who lose the sperm lose the vitality of their body, DiaBETES is not a Dis-ease, its a DEFICIENCY.

DIABETES would not appear in Indian Public who consumes RAGI, BLACK RICE and RED RICE, interesting thing is all those freedom fighters in British Rule were fed with RAGI inside the jail unaware it MADE THE PRISONERS/FREEDOM FIGHTERS STRONG....

 

[mallik]

@mallik
If one actually read my comments, am not in any manner into glorifying Ayurveda, it's legacy, the methodology and principles behind it, etc. Similarly, am not into disparaging it also. (Even-though in real life, it have personally helped those close to me tremendously).

I am being pragmatic about that, if there are some herbs or compounds or anything that is of interest to human being, it might be scientifically tested, if found working should be used as medicine for service of humanity. Just because it's written in an ayurvedic or unani or any ancient text does not mean it should be castigated, blocked or ignored. Use modern scientific method and research to find it, not archaic or occult like methods, aka be as practical as modern age requires.

I understand our current methods are not working properly. Reason why my first comment in this thread was about real world effectiveness of two drugs which are already introduced by govt. supported agencies. Couldn't find any real world results from anyone, I couldn't trust it.

I prefer to be agnostic in politics, similar topics and want to see things in humanist perspective in general, ignoring nitigrities. As everyone else, I too have opinions, some people seems to dislike it, but I'm not to impose my idea on anyone or trying to prove am only right. Would like to see both sides of arguments, but seems it goes against the grain here sometimes. Anyways, am not one to hold grudge about all this, it's not worth it on a simple online forum.

My comment about TE members wasn't directed at you. It is something I've seen in the forum. And in this thread with multiple posts. Like the one above. I prefer not to comment directly on them, or to get into an argument. Life is too short to spend it being angry

 

[kiran6680]

Allopathy is good for surgery, urgent antibiotics treatment for any damages gathered as a result of VIRUS attack, ( they have no solution for VIRUSES, they have solutions only for Bacterial attacks in human body )

No

Antiviral drug - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Antifungal - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[TEUser2K1]

It is something I've seen in the forum. And in this thread with multiple posts. Like the one above

That is one of the rarest gems I've seen, an anathema of the other-side ...