PoBoy
Innovator
Corona virus
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psyph3r
Innovator
It's the experts themselves creating confusion, can't really blame the presenter since he's just conveying what the experts are saying.
^^ Nope, the experts ( who are not under any corporate pressure) are crystal clear with their statements.
Point me to a single source where the doctors/ biologists who are directly involved with the development of antivirals and vaccines talking vaguely.
The presenter is skipping parts which he doesn't understand and only reading the part of the synopsis ( which he understood).
How Remdesivir works is crystal clear, there's NO confusion around it.
So are the vaccine developments, they are very clearing stating the MOA, where exactly they may fail and why. Unlike clinical medicine, this is exact science.
But someone must have adequate base knowledge to understand their statements.
Point me to a single source where the doctors/ biologists who are directly involved with the development of antivirals and vaccines talking vaguely.
The presenter is skipping parts which he doesn't understand and only reading the part of the synopsis ( which he understood).
How Remdesivir works is crystal clear, there's NO confusion around it.
So are the vaccine developments, they are very clearing stating the MOA, where exactly they may fail and why. Unlike clinical medicine, this is exact science.
But someone must have adequate base knowledge to understand their statements.
psyph3r
Innovator
Guess you haven't been watching Indian TV channels, every night there's a different expert from a different university/pharmaceutical company/institute both local/international chiming in with varied opinions.
Currently we are at a total of 9 promising solutions according to them that will be ready across a period of 9-18 months which I doubt going by every conflicting thing they've had to say about CV so far.
Oh!! Those experts!! Yes,I've access to some Indian news channels. Anyone with a MBBS degree can approach those channels and talk rubbish for hours. When Dr. Naresh Trehan is the main advisor ( possibly forgot definition of primary/ secondary immunity/ epidemiology etc.)
This is expected.
NOTHING is a promising solution for now. Remdesivir at best would reduce symptoms by 3-4 days. No one knows what it does with intubated patients.
Regarding vaccines, only the Pfizer and Bio Ncon ( possibly got that name wrong), the German pharma is painstakingly doing it it the right way.
The Oxford one by all probability was only hype as they haven't released anything officially in any proper journal yet.
The serum institute one is definitely rubbish ( given their track history and that awful monoclonal dengue vaccine) it's not manufacturing tet vac./ or any globulin for passive immunization ( tet glob)
This vaccine should have very high measurable prophylactic value. A vaccine which reduces the severity is not going to help with this epidemic.
BCG ( being a rubbish vaccine ) is still used in few countries where Koch's is still very high and it possibly help with TB meningitis in 50 percent people.
Most antiviral vaccines ( except polio, MMR , hep B) developed in recent times ( varicella, influenza etc.)are not 100 percent effective and mostly pharmaceutical company driven. They are not proper vaccines.
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While planning for Howrah, I realized we are not asking the most experienced people in relief operations in India ( not the army) , the most selfless, apolitical and most respectful for all religions.
The sanyasis of Ramkrishna Mission!! I'm a student of Narendrapur Ramkrishna Mission, and it took less than 5 minutes to contact secretary Maharaj over phone. He listened to me patiently, searched my name in the alumni database.
After confirming, his only question was " Tomar ki ki chai?" ( What do you need)
I gave him a small list. He provided EVERYTHING I requested for.
Starting with places for the hospital workers to stay ( noticed a covid hospital within 2km of Belur Math) In less than 12 hours, he opened up their guest house and arranged for everything ( including food) to accommodate 100 people ( I requested for 25 people!)
They have collected ration cards for more than 300 people and deliver everything at home including medicine other necessities not available in ration shops.
These people are trusted completely by local people irrespective of religion and politics leanings.
India has many such resources, but they are not being utilised effectively.
Secretary Maharaj himself on personal level, doesn't trust the government running India
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Old drug brings new hope for critically ill coronavirus patients
BMC-run hospitals have successfully tried an immunomodulatory drug to treat extremely critical Covid-19 cases. Two at Nair Hospital show remarkable recovery. Kiran Mazumdar Shaw’s Biocon agrees to free-of-cost trials at all BMC hospitals.
Buddy, Tocilizumab is being used extensively in China and elsewhere since February. It's well known to prevent severity of cytokine storm ( IL6 inhibitor) the same principle used in resistant rheumatoid arthritis.
Some unique problems with it:
1. Itself it can cause upper airway inflammation
2. Has interaction with all live vaccines ( so if a vaccine trial volunteer gets infected, it can't be given, major ethical issue)
3. Most important: How to predict the storm? The often first manifestation is severe lung damage ( tocilizumab won't help with organ damage)
I don't understand this weird media thing, are they getting news in reverse order? Why tocilizumab is getting media coverage after 4 months of the official failure in treatment.
Quiz time, since you guys seem interested in the clinical aspect of the disease:
What is the earliest blood marker in cytokine storm?
I bet the idiots @ ICMR don't know, as all of them have abandoned textbooks after getting their plum jobs.
If anyone knows/ Googles the right answer, will include his/ her name in JAMA as the techie who knows better than most doctors ( I'm trying to write something in that line, will need some people's real names, like Marcus Fenix, Chiron, Arjun,adder, nikhilavasthi, rdst_1,blr_p, and two of the super mods if all are agreeable of course, don't worry, it's completely apolitical and mostly about our doctors' ( of course including myself) incompetence and our lack of critical thinking, and why should we request bright people from other fields to interact with us for our own good.
Medical science is not voodoo and everything with sound logic and common sense should be included in it, we doctors should stop playing God immediately.
I will give few small examples here.
Arjun googled the relationship between ank spondylitis and cardiac arrhythmias for me ( I not only forgot that, but couldn't find it on the ebooks I have on my phone)
Someone else ( sorry, can't recall the name right now) found out a positive covid 19 report for me online ( possibly just after the lockdown in India) none of my doctor friends didn't see a positive report at that time.
Renegade here mentioned about the blister like lesion in his kid's toe, I have seen hundreds in Spain, but that was the first for me from India ( and first for many of my doctor friends in India)
blr_p really annoyed me with few things, but he raised some really good points and asked few really good questions, which made me read pages after pages of medical literature.
This sort of free exchange of information we all need to grow personally and as collective human race, no matter where we live physically.
Some unique problems with it:
1. Itself it can cause upper airway inflammation
2. Has interaction with all live vaccines ( so if a vaccine trial volunteer gets infected, it can't be given, major ethical issue)
3. Most important: How to predict the storm? The often first manifestation is severe lung damage ( tocilizumab won't help with organ damage)
I don't understand this weird media thing, are they getting news in reverse order? Why tocilizumab is getting media coverage after 4 months of the official failure in treatment.
Quiz time, since you guys seem interested in the clinical aspect of the disease:
What is the earliest blood marker in cytokine storm?
I bet the idiots @ ICMR don't know, as all of them have abandoned textbooks after getting their plum jobs.
If anyone knows/ Googles the right answer, will include his/ her name in JAMA as the techie who knows better than most doctors ( I'm trying to write something in that line, will need some people's real names, like Marcus Fenix, Chiron, Arjun,adder, nikhilavasthi, rdst_1,blr_p, and two of the super mods if all are agreeable of course, don't worry, it's completely apolitical and mostly about our doctors' ( of course including myself) incompetence and our lack of critical thinking, and why should we request bright people from other fields to interact with us for our own good.
Medical science is not voodoo and everything with sound logic and common sense should be included in it, we doctors should stop playing God immediately.
I will give few small examples here.
Arjun googled the relationship between ank spondylitis and cardiac arrhythmias for me ( I not only forgot that, but couldn't find it on the ebooks I have on my phone)
Someone else ( sorry, can't recall the name right now) found out a positive covid 19 report for me online ( possibly just after the lockdown in India) none of my doctor friends didn't see a positive report at that time.
Renegade here mentioned about the blister like lesion in his kid's toe, I have seen hundreds in Spain, but that was the first for me from India ( and first for many of my doctor friends in India)
blr_p really annoyed me with few things, but he raised some really good points and asked few really good questions, which made me read pages after pages of medical literature.
This sort of free exchange of information we all need to grow personally and as collective human race, no matter where we live physically.
Party Monger
Juggernaut
I think you have to understand that as Fauci said, One drug opens the door and others follow soon. so it might start with something that provides a 20% better outcome, but that opens the door to far better drugs.
N
I sincerely hope it's ramdesivir and some replicase inhibitors.
Monoclonal antibodies ( anything that ends with zumab, mumab etc. are going to be very expensive) some atypical immuno suppressant should be in picture soon.
Nope. CRP increases with any inflammation. But you are getting close.
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Sincerely hope Fauci gets it right. But so far everything is unrelated ( HCQS, ramdesivir, tocilizumab are are not even remotely close)
I sincerely hope it's ramdesivir and some replicase inhibitors.
Monoclonal antibodies ( anything that ends with zumab, mumab etc. are going to be very expensive) some atypical immuno suppressant should be in picture soon.
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Bang on!! Serum ferritin level. You guys are real gems!! None at ICMR knew this.
Arjun, are you sure that you're not a doc?
Arjun, are you sure that you're not a doc?
We all are, to a certain extent mate. ATM I'm convinced that I have enteric fever. But my wife thinks it's just a flu and I'm trying to avoid cooking ( today was my turn, didn't even make breakfast!) Since the kid is with his grandparents, we had some " plans"..looks like it's not happening
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Marcus Fenix
Innovator
Interesting read.
www.nytimes.com
Opinion | How Long Will a Vaccine Really Take? (Published 2020)
Experts say at least 18 months. Here’s how to shorten the timeline.
^^ Very interesting, I have some inside documents from Pfizer(US) and Bio Ntech (German) joint venture.They are not rushing things, but everything looked very logical unlike the crazy Oxford initiative.
chetansha
Juggernaut
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