Cost to performance comparison chart for airconditioners

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m4w said:
try PV(8%/12,5x12,MCx5)
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Thought we said it was 6 months usage instead of 12.

There are 2 contenders atm.

urs and the one used in that spreadsheet, can you explain which to chose and why ?
Atm i'm liking the one used in the spreadsheet.

I'm still not 100% with this, i get the PV stuff somewhat but less the parameters.
 
If you are considering a long life cycle of the product, several other factors come into play like the bundled warranty, servicing, repair costs, brand presence, resale value and depreciation etc. if you want to be completely 4nal bout it.

These are especially pertinent in the Air Conditioner market. Hence, the emphasis by some companies like LG and Samsung on servicing, though they may not make as efficient ACs as Voltas.

However, for power consumption purposes, I guess people can make their own judgments from the EER values and the 5year power consumption values the author of the thread has provided.

To conclude, in my opinion, this should be a power consumption vs. performance thread and not cost vs. performance thread due to the above variables, some of which can't exactly be quantified.
 
..:: Free Radical ::.. said:
If you are considering a long life cycle of the product, several other factors come into play like the bundled warranty, servicing, repair costs, brand presence, resale value and depreciation etc. if you want to be completely 4nal bout it.
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I dont mind getting more anal if you can show how to model the above :D
i see them maybe more relevant when talking about cars tho

Warranty is similar from what i could tell, a yr on parts going up to 5 for the compessor., Servicing & Repair costs see my earlier reply in this thread.

For this size (tiny in the grand scheme) of AC, don't think brand is really that important. Carrier might have been going for donkey's years but that kind of experience is helpful if you want to cool a building say, less for just a room or two. ie anyone can make a AC, the types we are discussing if they have the resources to do so.

If you look at the huge selection of models on offer in CI, i think TCO is maybe a better parameter, and i mean over the lifetime here.

One parameter that is certainly variable is cooling hours required depending where you live but i can't find any reliable data for India :(

You save more if you use more with an efficient model, but if you only need AC say a month of the yr, then its not so important.
..:: Free Radical ::.. said:
These are especially pertinent in the Air Conditioner market. Hence, the emphasis by some companies like LG and Samsung on servicing, though they may not make as efficient ACs as Voltas.
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What do you mean when you say 'efficient' here ?
..:: Free Radical ::.. said:
However, for power consumption purposes, I guess people can make their own judgments from the EER values and the 5year power consumption values the author of the thread has provided.
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Once the PV values are in, it should be ok.
..:: Free Radical ::.. said:
To conclude, in my opinion, this should be a power consumption vs. performance thread and not cost vs. performance thread due to the above variables, some of which can't exactly be quantified.
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The only reason i used the approach above is that ACs cost money in the long run vs other more conventional appliances. The idea that more efficient is 'supposed' to save you more is being examined here :)
 
blr_p: Why don't you add a chart which plots prices with EER values. That will be a cost/performance analysis - you can use a scatter chart.

And back to the TCO Analysis, what's the hold-up? Let's publish a version now and you can add the hours/city factor in later.

free rad: Hey! We could use your expertise in leeching prices off of CI. BTW which AC did you pick up and why?
 
m4w said:
blr_p: Why don't you add a chart which plots prices with EER values. That will be a cost/performance analysis - you can use a scatter chart.
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I'm not sure as yet how linear this relationship is, you would think better the EER better the performance, but there can be exceptions TCO wise.

m4w said:
And back to the TCO Analysis, what's the hold-up? Let's publish a version now and you can add the hours/city factor in later.
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Holdup ?

Is there a definitive answer on whether to use monthly compounding or annual compounding for PV's ?

...as Monthly compounding gives a higher PV than annual, the spreadsheets above use annual compounding.

how important/relevant is the difference ?

any accountants here care to share some insight ?

cos best answer i currently have to that question is, the above linked spreadsheets use annual compounding!

The other point to clarify is 8% is used in the calcs, what does that 8% refer to ?

inflation? nominal interest rate ? real interest rate ? nominal discount rate ? real discount rate ?

I saw a formula that states

nominal interest rate = real interest rate + inflation

From what i can gather this whole PV stuff is based on what money you could fetch in the future if you invested it. So, to add costs over a period, future money is discounted to present. Well, no bank i'm aware of offers monthly compunding or annual compunding instead they do quarterly compounding, for domestic deposits.

I also started the hours thread to get an idea of general use, was thinking of 3 bands 3 -6 -10 months annual use etc. that way user selects which band they are in and we can forget city :)

Table will prolly get done at the week-end by which time more ppl can challenge the approach :)
 
blr_p said:
I'm not sure as yet how linear this relationship is, you would think better the EER better the performance, but there can be exceptions TCO wise.
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Never said its linear, that's why I recommended a scatter chart for EER vs MOP. That way you can visually identify pricing trends and locate the models that offer the best EER/price ratio. How about EER vs TCO?

the spreadsheets above use annual compounding.
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Yup, and it seems right. When you use monthly formula, the money is being discounted for 30 months and not 60 (for 5 yrs figure).

edit: "This energy savings calculator was developed by the U.S. EPA and U.S. DOE and is provided for estimating purposes only. Actual energy savings may vary based on use and other factors." I think you should use their annual formula cuz I'm sure they would've run in by a finance guy!

From what i can gather this whole PV stuff is based on what money you could fetch in the future if you invested it. So, to add costs over a period, future money is discounted to present. Well, no bank i'm aware of offers monthly compunding or annual compunding instead they do quarterly compounding, for domestic deposits.
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It's got to do with time value of money. What if an AC with better EER saves you money 5 years from now. Inflation over 5 yr could wipe out any savings benefits (related: article on how FDs real rate of return is under threat of going red). That's what we need to find out.

I also started the hours thread to get an idea of general use, was thinking of 3 bands 3 -6 -10 months annual use etc. that way user selects which band they are in and we can forget city :)
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Bands sound real good. Nice idea!

Table will prolly get done at the week-end by which time more ppl can challenge the approach :)
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The more the merrier but it seems not many are interested or have anything to contribute.

BTW CI has a "notify me" button in the price drop section.
 
Thx, what's confusing is why they are not following the table 2.2 described here.

TABLE 2.2: Star Rating Band valid from 01 January 2008 to 31 December 2009
| EER (W/W) ||
Star Rating | Min |Max
1 Star *|2.50 |2.69 |
2 Star **|2.70 | 2.89 |
3 Star ***|2.90 | 3.09 |
4 Star **** |3.10 |3.29 |
5 Star ***** |3.30 ||

A lot of the entries are folowing table2.1 instead.

Other than that i'm looking for pricing info for Onida SM12SLH ?

Nothing on CI or even onida's site :huh:
 
No idea about the Onida or the star rating reference. Are we going to get a updated comparison anytime soon?
 
That Onida model is one of the few if maybe 'the' only 5-star as of 2008 from that list. Can't leave it out.

Am working on the list...
 
I am shocked to not see OGeneral AC in the list ,,,

OG is the only king in the AC market,, No other AC can even come close to it ,
 
I'm planning to pick up a Panasonic 5* ( EER - 10.8 ) rated 2T Ac (C24HKY, with 22.9k btu/hr) for Rs. 45.5k. Has anyone used a Panasonic split ? how do u think it compared to 0General, Voltas, Daikin
 
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