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[ibose]

Do you think this is because of over population or is it because we aren’t using the resources efficiently? Have hit the peak resource utilisation, even decent resource utilisation to blame the population?

I asked about evidence on efficiency of resources utilisation but none was forthcoming. What does that tell you ?

Millions live a better life now

There, corrected for you. They do not even know what better means.

you and I alone are not India and if we don’t experience improvement doesn’t mean things haven’t improved.

Let's revisit this when you and I both can say that things have improved. I am out.

 

[mayank11280]

I asked about evidence on efficiency of resources utilisation but none was forthcoming. What does that tell you ?

Okay. Here we go.

In agriculture sector: our misuse of resources due to overuse of Urea has led to decline in Nitrogen Use Efficiency and decline in productivity. Similarly, China produces. 1Kg of rice with 500Ltrs of water. We tend to use 3000-5000 ltrs per kg.

Water recycling: we recycle 30% of waste water. Israel does 90%

In electricity: AT&C losses are around 18-20% in India. It is less than 10% in developed nations.

In logistics: our costs are around 13-14% of the GDP. It is less than 9% in USA.

These are a few from the top of my head.

There, corrected for you. They do not even know what better means.

So, do you mean they were not alive before? They lived a life then, now they live a better life. That is improved life.

Now the poorest man knows that his newborn is less likely to die. (Result reduced TFR)

The poorest woman knows she can go to anganwadi for her child’s nutrition and education. (result improved nutritional outcomes)

A child can go to school and have a meal and study too. (Improved learning outcomes)

Even poor parents want their child to study because they see hope of social mobility in education. (higher literacy rates)

Poor have gotten electricity, LPG, opportunity to work when no work is found through MNREGS, upskill and work elsewhere. (Improved standard of living and incomes)

These were not happening at independence. That’s what improved life is.

 

[bssunilreddy]

Education can be an Assassin’s Creed: How board and digital games can transform learning​

A video of a social science teacher went viral almost a year ago for using Assassin’s Creed, a computer game, to teach history. As the adventure game references ancient Egypt, Greece, and the American Revolution, the video showed Mr Mahathey teaching children about the Battle of Thermopylae, a war fought against the Persian empire and Greek city-states. “So, right there, that’s going to be the entrance to Thermopylae. That’s a very narrow passageway for the Persians and the Greeks to fight,” he was found saying.

Several studies have reported on the use of games in education. In a 2021 study published in Digital Learning Innovations, authors stated the advantages of playing games in learning concepts. For example, the study involved 56 college students playing the computer game PaGamO.

Source: https://www.thehindu.com/education/...mes-are-changing-learning/article69155200.ece

 

[ibose]

Now the poorest man knows that his newborn is less likely to die. (Result reduced TFR)

The poorest woman knows she can go to anganwadi for her child’s nutrition and education. (result improved nutritional outcomes)

A child can go to school and have a meal and study too. (Improved learning outcomes)

Even poor parents want their child to study because they see hope of social mobility in education. (higher literacy rates)

Poor have gotten electricity, LPG, opportunity to work when no work is found through MNREGS, upskill and work elsewhere. (Improved standard of living and incomes)

These were not happening at independence. That’s what improved life is.

According to the Supreme Court of India, “Right to life guaranteed in any civilized society implies the right to food, water, decent environment, education, medical care and shelter”. These are basic human rights known to any civilized society.
All of what you described are just right to life. The fact is we are still struggling to provide for the most basic right let alone talking to the quality of it.

 

[mayank11280]

According to the Supreme Court of India, “Right to life guaranteed in any civilized society implies the right to food, water, decent environment, education, medical care and shelter”. These are basic human rights known to any civilized society.
All of what you described are just right to life. The fact is we are still struggling to provide for the most basic right let alone talking to the quality of it.

I think it was Olga Tellis 1985 Case or PUCL 2001 case? Recently in Ranjit Singh case they made a similar remark with respect to environment.

that is evident in the decline of quality of life.

One word : Population

100 apples for a million customers.

You made these statements.

Quality of life has improved objectively. It has NOT declined, as your claim said.

The population is not to be blamed, as you claimed. It is the resource management.

At no stage I said everything is roses and ponies. The country needs a radical makeover to become the so called “developed India”. We are no where close to it. We have people who are living a better life, so no decline, but they are not getting their due dignity. And here I agree, their living in such scenarios can hardly be called a living but it is better than before.

We have so many problems and very difficult to implement solutions which neither the populist governments nor the risk averse private capital are willing to take.

 

[ibose]

Quality if has improved objectively. It has NOT declined, as your claim said.

The population is not to be blamed, as you claimed. It is the resource management.

Let's agree to disagree on whether quality of life has improved. I have seen no points made apart from the fact that more and more people have graduated to the lowest rung of Maslow's needs. They did graduate but in third division instead of first.
The focus of agriculture has always been to feed more hence yield. I can neither speak to those figures (ChatGPT?) nor the quality of Chinese rice but rice needs standing water.
Potable water, again, is a limited resource (4% freshwater for 18% of global population). You cannot sustain just by water conservation or even if you recycle 90% waste water.
Our resources are limited even if they are used effectively and efficiently. Our population isn't.

 

[mayank11280]

Let's agree to disagree on whether quality of life has improved. I have seen no points made apart from the fact that more people have graduated to the lowest rung of Maslow's needs.
The focus of agriculture has always been to feed more hence yield. I can neither speak to those figures (ChatGPT?) nor the quality of Chinese rice but rice needs standing water.
Potable water, again, is a limited resource. You cannot sustain just by water conservation or even if you recycle 90% waste water.
Our resources are limited even if they are used effectively and efficiently. Our population isn't.

Bruh. First of all, I am a bit offended with you equating the years of research efforts to ChatGPT.

Second, rice doesn’t need standing water there are many other techniques like DSR, SRI, etc. Also, quality of Chinese rice is better because of better post harvest management. Indian rice has high moisture content and is prone to rotting.

Third, it is the nature that decides the standing crop, that is how much of beings it can sustain, the biology is of nature. It is the human greed and human inefficiency which is the problem in managing the standing crop.

 

[lockhrt999]

@mayank11280
In 2010, in my city of Pune, I used to travel to the other end of the city just for one burger.
Today, I won't go even in the middle of the city for better job opportunity. It's all shit now.

Yeah, the govt is building more roads, trains, airports, metros, power stations yada yada yada but at the core, QOL has become shit as explained by @ibose

Randomly adding things by incompetent people was never going to improve anything at the ground level.

Read my perpetual development* theory.

*Noble is pending.

 

[mayank11280]

@mayank11280
In 2010, in my city of Pune, I used to travel to the other end of the city just for one burger.
Today, I won't go even in the middle of the city for better job opportunity. It's all shit now.

Yeah, the govt is building more roads, trains, airports, metros, power stations yada yada yada but at the core, QOL has become shit as explained by @ibose

Randomly adding things by incompetent people was never going to improve anything at the ground level.

Read my perpetual development* theory.

*Noble is pending.

This is a classic case of facts v. Anecdotes. Everything I have quoted above about QOL improvement comes from NFHS5 or other surveys. I think empirical and statistical evidences, i.e. hard facts help establish reliability and validity of any claim.

Also, development means guided change for improvement of quality of life and social transformation. Change is the essence of it. And it is a work in progress.

No one can deny we need more development. You yourself said QOL is not optimal, hence we need more of it. So, it will be long drawn, which you have rightfully called perpetual.

There is a lack of planning, resources are getting misused, that has been my contention from the very beginning.

 

[lockhrt999]

This is a classic case of facts v. Anecdotes. Everything I have quoted above about QOL improvement comes from NFHS5 or other surveys. I think empirical and statistical evidences, i.e. hard facts help establish reliability and validity of any claim.

Not anecdotal.

Pune is 4th worst in the world when it comes to traffic.
Bangalore is 3rd worst.
Mumbai, which was supposed to have worse traffic, is ranked at #39

Full rankings

More,
37 IT companies left Hinjewadi (pune) IT park in last 10 years owing to poor infrastructure
India looks for new Bengalurus as its Silicon Valley goes downhill

No one can deny we need more development. You yourself said QOL is not optimal, hence we need more of it. So, it will be long drawn, which you have rightfully called perpetual.

You got it the other way around.

More development >> Less QOL.

India lacks talent. Whatever talented people we have left, they are not into city planning. When Indians do development, it doesn't serve any purpose. Rather, it makes things worse.

People think randomly building bridges, metros going to help QOL. It doesn't work like that. Metro has failed in India,

Most of the development work that is going on here is pure nonsense, as none of it solves any real problems. Pune has become unlivable because of the development work and not because of the lack of it.

 

[mayank11280]

Not anecdotal.

View attachment 222782

Pune is 4th worst in the world when it comes to traffic.
Bangalore is 3rd worst.
Mumbai, which was supposed to have worse traffic, is ranked at #39

Full rankings

More,
37 IT companies left Hinjewadi (pune) IT park in last 10 years owing to poor infrastructure
India looks for new Bengalurus as its Silicon Valley goes downhill


You got it the other way around.

More development >> Less QOL.

India lacks talent. Whatever talented people we have left, they are not into city planning. When Indians do development, it doesn't serve any purpose. Rather, it makes things worse.

People think randomly building bridges, metros going to help QOL. It doesn't work like that. Metro has failed in India,

Most of the development work that is going on here is pure nonsense, as none of it solves any real problems. Pune has become unlivable because of the development work and not because of the lack of it.

I think we have a fundamentally different understanding of development.

Infrastructural development is one aspect of development. There are many hits and misses here. Delhi metro did improve QOL. The failure was to realise whether it will succeed everywhere. Again, a failure of planning. If planning has failed, then there is no real development, it is just project construction.

Urban areas are facing problems of overurbanisation, while India is facing underurbanisation. That means we need better planning of resources to ensure equitable and spread out development, not just construction. And this construction doesn’t espouse QOL. At best it facilitates it. The real QOL is entailed by socio-economic development.

Socio-economic development, IMO is the most important dimension of development and determines QOL. In health, education and standard of living we are faring better than ever statistically. Therefore, socio-economic development has led to better QOL.

Idea of development is not about constructing infrastructure but about developing human capability through better health, education and livelihood.