sandeepsachin
Skilled
Icici axis and Pnb have cdm's too. Not sure if they would be functional during all this chaos. Did you friend deposit money after the demonetization?
Demonetisation and its Aftermath
- Thread starter psyph3r
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hotshot05
Skilled
Yes. He deposited yesterday morning.
Looks like looting/rioting has already started happening.
http://www.newsx.com/national/46172...ocals-rob-ration-shop-in-broad-daylight-in-mp
There are a number of things that govt can do if they really want to eradicate black money and not just for show or getting back at their opponents.
1. Any denomination above Rs 500 in India exists solely for the benefit of black money hoarders. Remove all such denominations from circulation in a well organized manner. I have always found the Rs 1000 notes utterly useless, let alone Rs 2000. There is absolutely no reason for introducing a 2000 note expect to help hoarding.
2. Remove all tax exemptions on political and religious donations. Audit all such trusts/institutions. Even if an exemption is given to the person making the donation, the trust/institution should be taxed. Only charitable donations should have any exemptions and they should still be well tracked for auditing purposes.
3. Simplify the tax structure. Remove most or all of the exemptions and reduce the taxation levels to balance that out.
4. Only people who have a valid PAN card and pay direct taxes > 0 should have the right to vote. If you want to vote, get a PAN card and pay taxes. Only 1% of the people in this country pay direct taxes and their vote counts for nothing while people who don't pay taxes often vote irresponsibly in exchange for short term gains or personal benefits and get corrupt people into power. it is perfectly fine even if it means excluding a lot of people. After all, there are a lot kids under 18 who are more intelligent and matured than adults 3 or 4 times their age, but they still don't get to vote.
5. Every politician that is part of any registered political party should have his asset and tax declarations made public. Any wrong declaration if caught and proved should be make him liable for permanent disqualification from politics.
6. Move towards cashless in the true sense and in an organized manner and not by ripping out 87% of the cash from circulation all of a sudden.[DOUBLEPOST=1478941587][/DOUBLEPOST]Same problem every where
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...of-a-burden-on-debut/articleshow/55378683.cms
Even for people lucky enough to get money in banks or ATM's, its mostly Rs 2000 notes which are just as worthless as the banned currency.
http://www.newsx.com/national/46172...ocals-rob-ration-shop-in-broad-daylight-in-mp
There are a number of things that govt can do if they really want to eradicate black money and not just for show or getting back at their opponents.
1. Any denomination above Rs 500 in India exists solely for the benefit of black money hoarders. Remove all such denominations from circulation in a well organized manner. I have always found the Rs 1000 notes utterly useless, let alone Rs 2000. There is absolutely no reason for introducing a 2000 note expect to help hoarding.
2. Remove all tax exemptions on political and religious donations. Audit all such trusts/institutions. Even if an exemption is given to the person making the donation, the trust/institution should be taxed. Only charitable donations should have any exemptions and they should still be well tracked for auditing purposes.
3. Simplify the tax structure. Remove most or all of the exemptions and reduce the taxation levels to balance that out.
4. Only people who have a valid PAN card and pay direct taxes > 0 should have the right to vote. If you want to vote, get a PAN card and pay taxes. Only 1% of the people in this country pay direct taxes and their vote counts for nothing while people who don't pay taxes often vote irresponsibly in exchange for short term gains or personal benefits and get corrupt people into power. it is perfectly fine even if it means excluding a lot of people. After all, there are a lot kids under 18 who are more intelligent and matured than adults 3 or 4 times their age, but they still don't get to vote.
5. Every politician that is part of any registered political party should have his asset and tax declarations made public. Any wrong declaration if caught and proved should be make him liable for permanent disqualification from politics.
6. Move towards cashless in the true sense and in an organized manner and not by ripping out 87% of the cash from circulation all of a sudden.[DOUBLEPOST=1478941587][/DOUBLEPOST]Same problem every where
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...of-a-burden-on-debut/articleshow/55378683.cms
Even for people lucky enough to get money in banks or ATM's, its mostly Rs 2000 notes which are just as worthless as the banned currency.
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https://www.valueresearchonline.com/story/storyview.asp?str=200384
A nicely written piece... Although it does not list out a comprehensive economic or social view... But nice use of limited space to point out important factors
A nicely written piece... Although it does not list out a comprehensive economic or social view... But nice use of limited space to point out important factors
sabby
ex-Mod
@Lord Nemesis No. 2, 4 & 5 are pipe dreams. Those alone would solve >50% of corruption.
While I do think the concept of abolishing existing 500/1000 notes are great, the execution could be much better. RBI should have stopped printing those notes and only print 50/100 notes for the last 6-8 months and they could have stated the reason as to control inflation. They should have also made a 10k per day withdrawal limit as well 50k-1L per month. This should have controlled the cash flows a bit and force people using cheque/online banking/cards for high value transactions. And introducing new 500 , 1000 and 2000 notes doesn't just make sense to me.
Another major step the Govt should take is to ban gold coin/bars all together just like trading foreign currency is banned. This would cut down the Gold import by a lot resulting in less foreign currency deficit as well as curb black Gold (for the lack of a better term).
Nevertheless, I'd prefer the Govt having this than do nothing. I do believe all political parties to be equally corrupt and its highly possible some big shot BJP leaders knew of this and converted their black money but still think this would eradicate a significant % of black money if not majority of it.
Personally I use very less cash and fortunate to have around 2k in small notes, so not much impacted by this but helping out my friends/colleague who direly need it. I'd request all fellow TE members to do so if possible instead of hoarding the 100 notes fearing they would be unavailable for a long time.
While I do think the concept of abolishing existing 500/1000 notes are great, the execution could be much better. RBI should have stopped printing those notes and only print 50/100 notes for the last 6-8 months and they could have stated the reason as to control inflation. They should have also made a 10k per day withdrawal limit as well 50k-1L per month. This should have controlled the cash flows a bit and force people using cheque/online banking/cards for high value transactions. And introducing new 500 , 1000 and 2000 notes doesn't just make sense to me.
Another major step the Govt should take is to ban gold coin/bars all together just like trading foreign currency is banned. This would cut down the Gold import by a lot resulting in less foreign currency deficit as well as curb black Gold (for the lack of a better term).
Nevertheless, I'd prefer the Govt having this than do nothing. I do believe all political parties to be equally corrupt and its highly possible some big shot BJP leaders knew of this and converted their black money but still think this would eradicate a significant % of black money if not majority of it.
Personally I use very less cash and fortunate to have around 2k in small notes, so not much impacted by this but helping out my friends/colleague who direly need it. I'd request all fellow TE members to do so if possible instead of hoarding the 100 notes fearing they would be unavailable for a long time.
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asingh
Super Mod
It is surprising how much black money the "common man" possesses. Hearing off the shelf cases like: 17L stuck, I know someone who closed a deal of 35L, short of 1C -- person is worried. What the heck. All this is boatloads of cash. Last night my apartment neighbor casually tell me: A friend has 37L tied up. I felt so poor, hearing all this.
sabby
ex-Mod
I've always been aware of this and I personally have no mercy for them. I know a lot of small/medium business persons who never file IT but have 15-20L+ income per year. The number of such people are probably 15-20 times of the honest/salaried person who earn equivalent but pay their taxes. Can you imagine the income tax revenue if every such "common man" (i.e. excluding the big guys/crooks who earn 1crore+) paid their taxes ?
asingh
Super Mod
True.
Indians are extremely dishonest and stoop to any low level to make an extra buck. It sickens me and makes me feel like puking at times...!
Even a late/deferred payment (holding back a payment) is considered a gleeful profit. Everyone is out to rip-off of everyone. That is why we are a 3rd World black hole till date. And will remain so for multiple centuries. Kids cheat their own parents, because they see them cheating others. It is plainly understood, what "without bill" means (yes, a saving of 5-10%), but people ask for it. An Indian gets more kicks out of earning 5 bucks scrupulously, rather than honestly garner 10. We exonerate the colloquial term jugaad -- it is just cheating. Plain and simple. No wonder most of our movie industry and popular music is too a rip off. Modi should bark: Invent In India. III. LOL....! Rather than all the other acronyms he is conjuring up eating, while munching dhokhla....! Which is just another spongy sweet. Another fraud. LOL.
I have heard some people at my own office saying yesterday that they have 30L or 50L or 70L "struck" at home and comparing themselves to their neighbors or how their CA is "struck" with a stash of their own and that their best recommendation is to burn the whole stash while my own worries are around being "struck" with no petty cash and the fact that my family is also coming down from US this week.
These people may be sweating hard, but they are at least privileged enough to have access to debit/credit cards and living in cities where they can do quite a lot in a cashless manner. On the other side, there are people who have nothing to do with all this and for whom daily needs revolve around cash and they are now "struck" without access to food and other basic necessities or medical care.
hotshot05
Skilled
Please ask these people to do some charity instead of burning it. Some poor person may be able to send his/her children to school using that money.
They remain pipe dreams largely because no party is really interested in putting a check on corruption as much as they want to just use it for just scoring some brownie points.
I doubt any charitable trust would be accepting these notes anymore considering even the religious ones have stopped accepting them. For a charity run by some NGO, its much hassle and risk and for the person too, getting caught could mean 10 years in jail.
In case of politicians, the money involved is all just easy money from bribes or stolen from govt coffers and the like which is why they can so casually throw away excess cash they cannot store. But in case of these people, its still money they have earned while slaving at their jobs for years or selling their properties. So having to burn their hard earned money with their own hands is the worst punishment they could get.
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^^ It has been clarified by the news paper that its a April Fool's day joke. But its quite possible that Modi's advisors may have picked the idea from this article.
They probably even went ahead and used the same justifications from the article to push this, though its obvious from the introduction of a new Rs 2000 note that the actual reasons for doing this have nothing to do with stopping corruption or fighting fake currency. After all, apart from the design, there isn't any new advanced security feature that makes the new notes any less vulnerable to counterfeiting compared to older notes either.
[DOUBLEPOST=1478984482][/DOUBLEPOST]This cartoon from The Hindu looks like a good depiction of the present situation.
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/cartoon/
They probably even went ahead and used the same justifications from the article to push this, though its obvious from the introduction of a new Rs 2000 note that the actual reasons for doing this have nothing to do with stopping corruption or fighting fake currency. After all, apart from the design, there isn't any new advanced security feature that makes the new notes any less vulnerable to counterfeiting compared to older notes either.
[DOUBLEPOST=1478984482][/DOUBLEPOST]This cartoon from The Hindu looks like a good depiction of the present situation.
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/cartoon/
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Very well written article, thanks for sharing
Imagine someone implementing no 4 in our country, PAN and returns to have voting rights, sounds good only thereotically, that's it - govt will be painted as anti poor straightaway. Guaranteed chaos by so called common man supporters instantly. Not practically possible and not correct ethically either.
I'd rather prefer abolishing the income tax altogether ; tax everything else, no excuses. Our people have very less income to show ; whereas enormously deep pockets to afford something. Tax the spending more effectively instead.
That's what I'm surprised too, milk sellers, panipuri outlet owners all cribbing with options to deal with the stash. Nobody is exact with the amount, 2 - 3 bank lockers is what they can approximate. The amount they don't even have time to count?? Definitely no one expected such a drastic and effective measure by the government. Well done
Indian Villages interdependency and cooperation between individuals is much realistic, effective than the cities. People help each other, they'll survive much worse conditions than this. My uncle, aunt senior citizens staying in the remote parts alone, everyone in the local medical shop, milkman etc asked them not to bother - pay it when you have it.
There was a interesting article written on times blog posts
"Dear opposition,
Don't worry about common man, they're used to standing in Qs. Be it
- Ration shops
- Utility bill payments
- Subsidised fertilizer distribution
- train, bus tickets etc
Adding ATM and banks to the list doesn't make much difference.
We are OK with it, please stop washing your worries of dealing with your own stash with crocodile tears for the common man. For the first time in the country after independence people with unaccounted money are having sleepless nights whereas the honest are happy inspite of being troubled with one more Qs. Mr RG when was the last time you had to go to the ATM? Stop this nonsense about empathy towards the common man. Think how'd you carry on with Cash for vote schemes in UP, Punjab Elections when most of your stash is rendered useless. "
That sounds like one more person privileged enough to not face any major problems (with access to internet no less) trying to speak in representation of people whose life and difficulties he has never experienced. What about the people who don't have ATM cards and also its not like standing in line at banks and ATM's the whole day is getting you any money and even when you are lucky enough to get some, its not usable.
The Finance Minster himself announced that getting most of the ATMs re-calibrated is going to take 3 more weeks (or maybe more, who knows) and there are many ATM's still under shutters. Getting money into them is a different problem altogether. Even when an ATM is filled up, the money is not lasting 20 min.
If everything is so rosy and the people could cope with the situation, why do you think incidents of looting and rioting are cropping up and dead bodies piling up one by one. Why is it that so many poor people are cursing the govt after their life came to a stand still and permanently scarred. Why is it that police presence is being increased if people are able to cope with the situation.
Rahul Gandhi may not be qualified to talk about the common man, but this guy is just as unqualified. These people need to stop. Its alright that these people want to continue butt kissing their favorite leader because they do not have had to face any major hardships, but they should not try to presume that just because they don't have any hardships, the rest of the people could also cope with their own situations like not having any means of earning a livelihood for days on end, not having any thing to feed their families or dealing with medical emergencies and watching their family members die just because they don't have the right currency or access to credit/debit cards.
Its absurd that these people even blame the private hospitals rather than the govt which did not allow these hospitals to accept the old notes and created this situation. Why should a business institution that runs for profit be the one to take the brunt of govt's poor management.
Seems like the 2000 rupee notes do not fit into the ATM cash boxes because their lengths are longer than 1000 rupee notes. Didn't these highly learned people take into account all these pitfalls and possible points of failure before running such a countrywide operation? Govt people always do things the stupid way. If they were in the know that something like this was to happen, why did they design such long notes? They should have made the length same as 1000 rupee notes or go the faster route and not make any 2000 rupee note in the first place.
when I hear talk like this it seems only the common people like us are stuck earning money like good people. Makes me frustrated thinking how sooner or later everyone who does not pay taxes will be doing such things even more in coming months or years to get back all the money they lost and more.
Mr.J
Skilled
Ah yes, Indian villages are pinnacle of cooperation and brotherhood. Vendors are telling customers to pay when they have it, wholesalers are telling retailers to pay when they have it, dalals are telling wholesalers to pay when they have it.
What are you smoking man?
It's all a hogwash. No new security features are added to new notes. So counterfeiters only have to change the design and they are back in the game.
In 2014, notes printed before 2005 were invalidated as notes printed after 2005 had security features which old notes lacked. But overall dimensions were unchanged. And people were given 3 months time to do it. AND yet BJP at that time deemed it as anti-poor.
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