Do you support Anna Hazare?

[max_demon]

People are corrupt because of the concept of private ownership.. no amount of reformation can solve the root cause of corruption in a human; Monetary system.. its just an evolution from private ownership of resources.
Back in the days it might have been useful as there was scarcity, but today times have changed. almost everything can be automated with the help of modern technology and science. really. think of it as such, monetary system is designed as such that it will cause perceptual destruction to the mankind. benefiting only a few. Resource based economy should solve all the problems imo

 

[Hacker]

My response to that is that firstly, as the pieces above argue, the solution he is offering could actually make the problem worse, and are a step in the wrong direction. That is reason enough to oppose it without needing to propose an alternative

Well then why dont you come up with a much better solution and start your own movement. Lets see how it goes. Its very easy to sit in your home and be an expert on such topics.

All of you who oppose Hazare should realize that there not going to be a white knight with a squeaky clean image who is going to come and rescue all of us. Everyone has skeletons in the closet. Gandhi, the father of nation used to sleep with young naked girls. Imagine if gandhi was alive today and practicing such stuff he would have been ostracized from society.

I am not a blind supporter of hazare but atleast he is doing something and he has actually brought down powerful NCP minister in MH. If you dont like that then start your own movement instead of debating such stuff on online forums.

That is reason enough to oppose it without needing to propose an alternative

So you support status quo, which means you support the rampant looting of the nations wealth by our netas.

 

[kvikram]

@Lord Nemesis Although you make a valid point in saying that corruption should first be nullified in the common people, I think it's hardly practical. No person in the country is going to admit they are corrupt, and it is certainly not possible to start a mass movement that tells everyone to stop being corrupt and pay their taxes.

Most people are too lazy to think as deeply as those here on TE. They will blindly follow anybody who's a leader, and the fate of the entire world (or that society) lies in the hands, or is the responsibility of, that leader. And there is not going to be any leader whose message is stop corruption in the common people, because leaders are not formed that way.

 

[ubergeek]

I thiink i have said this before but ill saying it again any way,

It's time we choose the lesser evil and hazare clear seems to be like that,we need a change and we should give someone else the chance,i mean how bad can it get when it is already worse.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

Lord Nemesis Although you make a valid point in saying that corruption should first be nullified in the common people, I think it's hardly practical. No person in the country is going to admit they are corrupt, and it is certainly not possible to start a mass movement that tells everyone to stop being corrupt and pay their taxes.

Most people are too lazy to think as deeply as those here on TE. They will blindly follow anybody who's a leader, and the fate of the entire world (or that society) lies in the hands, or is the responsibility of, that leader. And there is not going to be any leader whose message is stop corruption in the common people, because leaders are not formed that way.

If its impossible to for people to improve the sense of morals, then forget about a solution to corruption... period. Argue all you want for whatever laws and constitutional changes you think should be done, but they will all be moot in the end just like most of them are currently. Corrupt would only get replaced by more corrupt and all those laws would serve no purpose when the people who has to enforce them also have weak morals. The only way the situation can go from there is to get even worse when corrupt lying politicians are replaced by corrupt self righteous politicians who don't even realize themselves that they are doing something wrong.

 

[honest1]

I asked a Guy at Petrol Pump why the Price of petrol is Hiked every now and then,he told me to check with a Guy Called Mr Anna Hazzare :lol:
:yawn:

Your reply is very funny.
It seems that you were born with silver spoon. Anyways ask any needy senior citizen how much they struggle to get pension.
Anna Hazare wanted to have deadline for each task done by govt deptt. Just imagine if that is being implemented, how many needy people will get benefited.

 

[sudhanshu123]

I just think that Indians should find(or better yet,make) a better leader to lead the charge against corruption and not blindly follow Hazare.He forces vasectomies for chirsts sake!!

 

[sharktale1212]

I know this is not the thread on IAC or Lokpal but I think its tied to those topics. Whenever someone talks Lokpal to me, I just say "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes (who will watch with watchmen? )"
Agree with @Lord Nemesis that corruption starts from the people. The "chalta hain" and then complain attitude doesn't work. I remember one incident when I was travelling to my hometown. All my train compartment people were moaning about Railway food quality and cursing IRCTC for not providing water packets. Some tried asking the attendant for water packets but his answer was "we are out of water packets". So no one said anything.
When he came to me, there was a heated arguement. To make matters worse people sided with the attendant cause "thats the way things are". I gave everyone a piece of my mind. "If you don't do anything to improve your condition, don't complain. Its our responsibility to make matters better for us." After some time, it started out a min-coup within the bogey. Attendant had to buy water bottles at the next stop.
So, while its not required to agree if you are corrupt, just take baby steps towards fighting for our rights.

As for Anna Hazare, I think he has some political ambitions. I know he is not in any political party but there are guys who are influential without being in politics or some parliamentary seat.

 

[ch@ts]

I think the addendum " in his fight against corruption" was implied in the question was do you support Anna Hazare.

I support individual freedoms, and don't agree with many of Hazares and the rest of the IAC's views.

But, when it comes to the fight against corruption, I support them a 100%.
I don't pretend to know all the pitfalls in the Lokpal bill, but I do know for a fact that any bill or constitutional body can be abused. Look at our parliament and other governmental institutions that are supposed to be by the people, of the people, and for the people. Look at the difference between the people in power, and the people in need. Now tell me if you think the system isn't being abused. Tell me that you think we should keep the status quo until every member of our society becomes enlightened. Tell me that you think it's okay for millions to starve while those in power consolidate, and entrench themselves deeper in their positions.

Maybe the Lokpal bill isn't perfect, and it'll create a million complications. But, it's far better to fail with honourable intentions, and a decent effort than to let things continue the way the are.

I applaud Anna Hazare and Arvind Kejriwal and I support them in their fight against corruption, as I would anyone willing to dedicate their lives to non-violently improving the lot of those around them.

 

[ALPHA17]

Your reply is very funny.
It seems that you were born with silver spoon. Anyways ask any needy senior citizen how much they struggle to get pension.

@destiny For once leave out senior citizens.

Read this plight --

Major Ian Cardozo (retired as Lt. General) of the Indian Army amputated his own leg on a battlefield with a combat knife without any anaesthesia and medical help in 1971, he still gets a paltry ~2000/- for his sacrifice this is the case with plenty of other officer gentlemen / jawans of the Indian Armed Forces. The government (specifically babu's and MP's / MLA's) do not mind increasing their own perks but when it comes to the real heroes of our nation they are not even ready to ratify parity of pay for serving / retired men from 1986.

Now think the plight of our 'common' senior citizens.

I just think that Indians should find(or better yet,make) a better leader to lead the charge against corruption and not blindly follow Hazare.He forces vasectomies for chirsts sake!!

On the contrary we need to have self-concious society.

It should be how the society behaves against metalheads. Okay we like a different type of music does not mean we are anarchists OR heathen.

Our society has a topsy-turvy sense of morals, listening to metal = that guy is a heathen, god-less bastard. 5 year old watching a films item-number = normal.

Same thing when it comes to corruption, let someone else do it I am too busy OR indisposed for the life of me to fight against something like corruption in the government, scams and irregularities in the public-sector OR religious bigotry.

We do not need a leader, we need a social revulsion to certain social aspects. Make the society flinch when they hear about a scam and this is the reason why I am sad why the TATA Tea Jago Re ads stopped and Amir Khan is done with Satyamave Jayate (for now).

 

[kvikram]

If its impossible to for people to improve the sense of morals, then forget about a solution to corruption... period. Argue all you want for whatever laws and constitutional changes you think should be done, but they will all be moot in the end just like most of them are currently. Corrupt would only get replaced by more corrupt and all those laws would serve no purpose when the people who has to enforce them also have weak morals. The only way the situation can go from there is to get even worse when corrupt lying politicians are replaced by corrupt self righteous politicians who don't even realize themselves that they are doing something wrong.

So is India doomed to corruption forever? Your post is very grim. However what do you think? Do you think people can naturally realize that the very key to stopping corruption in India is to improve their sense of morals? Do you think it's actually possible without a powerful leader like Anna Hazare (he's uber-powerful) to perpetrate that fact?

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We do not need a leader, we need a social revulsion to certain social aspects. Make the society flinch when they hear about a scam.

But how? How will that social revulsion be brought about in the people, without a leader to do it?

 

[ALPHA17]

But how? How will that social revulsion be brought about in the people, without a leader to do it?

A leader is just a focussing lens for the society by-and-by, when Mr. Gandhi came back to India from South Africa he did not suddenly start a freedom movement, the movement was there all along all it needed was a focus, a direction and a veneer of purpose.

That is why I am against Mr. Hazare, they created this issue of a Lokpal Bill (which has been repeatedly shot down in Lok Sabha as well as the Rajya Sabha, surprise-surprise). Even with the Lokayukta as a functioning body in the state of Karnataka it is pointless because the organization itself is toothless and the majority of people in Bangalore city cannot be bothered about issues like the "mining scams" for them the lack of water in the morning for daily needs itself is a scandal.

So until the nation does not have unified plank to stand against the philanderer within, no point in wailing a corruption free government.

 

[kvikram]

A leader is just a focussing lens for the society by-and-by, when Mr. Gandhi came back to India from South Africa he did not suddenly start a freedom movement, the movement was there all along all it needed was a focus, a direction and a veneer of purpose.

That is why I am against Mr. Hazare, they created this issue of a Lokpal Bill (which has been repeatedly shot down in Lok Sabha as well as the Rajya Sabha, surprise-surprise). Even with the Lokayukta as a functioning body in the state of Karnataka it is pointless because the organization itself is toothless and the majority of people in Bangalore city cannot be bothered about issues like the "mining scams" for them the lack of water in the morning for daily needs itself is a scandal.

So until the nation does not have unified plank to stand against the philanderer within, no point in wailing a corruption free government.

So I suppose we need a leader, but Anna Hazare is not the right leader with the right message. We need a different kind of leader, and we do need a leader, because leaders are the only ones who can change people's mindsets on a large scale. That focussing lens is highly necessary.

Maybe the main reason people are so ignorant of morals, is that they feel cheated by the government. It's a "if you cheat, I'll cheat too" mentality. Nowadays we get a million power cuts, and shortage of water, and many other such domestic everyday problems. There is no guarantee that their taxes go anywhere to improving the state of these situations. People are so frustrated, that even the slightest effort against corruption, even though it may be actually quite destructive, is held high!

P.S. Maybe we should start our own TE movement.

P.P.S. I had to look up what "philanderer" meant.

 

[ALPHA17]

Maybe the main reason people are so ignorant of morals, is that they feel cheated by the government. It's a "if you cheat, I'll cheat too" mentality. Nowadays we get a million power cuts, and shortage of water, and many other such domestic everyday problems. There is no guarantee that their taxes go anywhere to improving the state of these situations. People are so frustrated, that even the slightest effort against corruption, even though it may be actually quite destructive, is held high!

P.P.S. I had to look up what "philanderer" meant.

Bingo, until the mentality of pulling down people does not leave our psyche it is impossible to set aside our mutual differences and look at our similarities and then work towards a better society.

So does that reflect good OR bad on me? hear:

 

[kvikram]

Bingo, until the mentality of pulling down people does not leave our psyche it is impossible to set aside our mutual differences and look at our similarities and then work towards a better society.

So does that reflect good OR bad on me? hear:

Of course it reflected good on you. I did not pull you down. It's a pretty uncommon word and I appreciate your knowledge of English. Nothing more.

 

[flash23]

@all time will straighten everything don't worry. But afraid, it will take atleast 2 generations.
The 2 generation logic basis -- By that time most of the people will be educated. By education, I dont mean holding a degree for namesake or ability to solve complex equations, but life lessons which will instill humility and respect for others.
Even today I see many people going to religious outfit's meetings turning into fanatics and mind you these guys are really 'educated' engineers and doctors, etc. So these guys will support their leader even if the other one is better suited.

When religion and politics and race really gets separated then there will a real government and with it will come a corruption free society.

 

[ssdivisiongermany1933]

Anna's movement is is very sacred and Partially I support , but he is trying to ride on a century old ideology to eradicate corruption which is difficult to achieve there should be some other model to fight corruption ..corruption is not seated in the hearts of politicians or bureaucrats but common people too is corrupt.Every sphere of influence has become branch and leaves of corruption

Alone Lokpal will not be able to fight corruption , lokpal too will become puppets in hands of government like CBI , ED ,IT deptt and who will execute lokpal if lokpal becomes corrupt and anarchist

 

[ALPHA17]

When religion and politics and race really gets separated then there will a real government and with it will come a corruption free society.

True most people cannot stomach this evolution of society, they want the instant revolution to take place without realizing how things can go from bad -->worse.

Of course it reflected good on you. I did not pull you down. It's a pretty uncommon word and I appreciate your knowledge of English. Nothing more.

I am not saying you pulled me down, I was asking how the term philanderer reflected on me when I used it.

 

[sudhanshu123]

lets make "trp", techenclave republic party and change the fate of india!!!!!

 

[avi]

^I believe in TE mods more than this Anna guy