CPU/Mobo Good motherboard with onboard graphics for E5200 ?

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bs0409 said:
So u want people to believe that an entry level motherboard costing Rs.2700 will perform better than the ASUS P5QL-CM which costs twice it's price......

It's lame believers who go on pricing rather than first hand info- who always fool themsleves into thinking 'badaa/mehengaa hai toh behtar hai" (bigger/pricier the better).

Asus/Rashi had been very horrible with replacements/repairs in India past many years.

So much that people vowed not to use a pc if they were the only thing available.

Some vowed they ill buy anything, even if not good, but not Asus.

Msi was always the so-so player.

And Gaigabyte somehow didnt have a mmajor presence here.

Most weren't even aware where their rma centres were.

Past some years, Gigabyte has been on a major upswing all over the globe, especially since the launch of C2D.

P35 and G31 boards have proven themselves to be of great reliability.

Local awareness in Gigabyte is mainly ushered in by the G31 boards as that is the segment that sells most. (780G to an extent as a vfm 780G option)

In the enthusiast socket 775 segment, the UD3 series is one of the faves.

These things are usually assessed by people who evolve with every new generation of chips and chipsets.

They don't look at prices but only at hands-on experiences with the real thing.

A pricier mobo may at times may not be as hot a peformer than something just a segment down.

Such gurus/enthusiasts evalutae stuff on basis of price to performance.

Coz after all, everyone wants the best bangs for the buck.

If you know your hardware, try out a G31 and let us know.

As you choose not to believe hundreds- yes, hundreds of people who are on a G31 and pretty satisfied with it's performance over the past 1 year or more. :)

Those who need good gfx, invest in a better gfx card as most netry level cards are also way better than most onboard offerings.

There was a time when an Abit IP35E costing 5.5- 6.5K was the bare min that was suggested.

The G31 has proved itself to be almost as good or even better.

And the price-to-performance simply makes it worth more than every paisa spent on it.

If you check the market, since the release of P45, which don't exactly offer much more than what P35 did for the extra cost, there is no really decent board "available locally" in the 3-7K price range.

The real good P45 boards start much up at 8.5K-9K odd.

And during P35, an IP35-pro was 9.5K odd and a brilliant board. :)

So for only 2.3K-2.4K, not 2700/-, you get a mobo that runs very stable, OCes good, runs stable even with a fairly decent OC, doesn't die on you.

Even if it dies let us assume, you have an option of paying just 2.4K and getting your rig up and running while the faulty mobo gets rmaed and can sell it off later after rma for not much of a loss.

With a pricier mobo, i doubt many here will buy a secondary mobo and will prefer to wait for the rma to happen. :)

For a person who needs extra usb ports, more sata ports, etc etc- they are termed hi-end user or enthusiast, they are usually not even looking at an E5200 or a matx mobo unless for htpc purposes.

They need ATX mobos mostly as they have huge gaming grade gpu and mostly have a discrete audio card.

They mostly won't even have E5200 and if they do, it will be in their surfing/downloading rig with a Gigabyte G31.

Midrange systems always have had mobos costing 5-7K, mostly without onboard gfx and the enthusiasts opted for pricier stuff for hi-end rigs.

But the Gigabyte G31 has sort of ushered ina revolution by penetratinginto the midrange market too.

Whether E5200 or E72/7300; whether 8600GT, 9600GT or even 9800GT at times, the 2.3K odd Gigabyte G31 is a common feature in many rigs these days.

For the reasons mentioned above, a lot of 3D artists too use the cheap but functional and very stable Gigabyte G31 mobos with Q6600 for their render rigs/servers, at stock or OCed to 3Ghz-3.2Ghz very easily- for 24x7 rendering. :cool2:
 
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BIKeINSTEIN said:
It's lame believers who go on pricing rather than first hand info- who always fool themsleves into thinking 'badaa/mehengaa hai toh behtar hai" (bigger/pricier the better).

Asus/Rashi had been very horrible with replacements/repairs in India past many years.
So much that people vowed not to use a pc if they were the only thing available.
Some vowed they ill buy anything, even if not good, but not Asus.

Msi was always the so-so player.
And Gaigabyte somehow didnt have a mmajor presence here.
Most weren't even aware where their rma centres were.

Past some years, Gigabyte has been on a major upswing all over the globe, especially since the launch of C2D.
P35 and G31 boards have proven themselves to be of great reliability.
Local awareness in Gigabyte is mainly ushered in by the G31 boards as that is the segment that sells most. (780G to an extent as a vfm 780G option)
In the enthusiast socket 775 segment, the UD3 series is one of the faves.

These things are usually assessed by people who evolve with every new generation of chips and chipsets.
They don't look at prices but only at hands-on experiences with the real thing.
A pricier mobo may at times may not be as hot a peformer than something just a segment down.
Such gurus/enthusiasts evalutae stuff on basis of price to performance.
Coz after all, everyone wants the best bangs for the buck.

If you know your hardware, try out a G31 and let us know.
As you choose not to believe hundreds- yes, hundreds of people who are on a G31 and pretty satisfied with it's performance over the past 1 year or more. :)
Those who need good gfx, invest in a better gfx card as most netry level cards are also way better than most onboard offerings.

There was a time when an Abit IP35E costing 5.5- 6.5K was the bare min that was suggested.
The G31 has proved itself to be almost as good or even better.
And the price-to-performance simply makes it worth more than every paisa spent on it.

If you check the market, since the release of P45, which don't exactly offer much more than what P35 did for the extra cost, there is no really decent board "available locally" in the 3-7K price range.
The real good P45 boards start much up at 8.5K-9K odd.
And during P35, an IP35-pro was 9.5K odd and a brilliant board. :)

So for only 2.3K-2.4K, not 2700/-, you get a mobo that runs very stable, OCes good, runs stable even with a fairly decent OC, doesn't die on you.
Even if it dies let us assume, you have an option of paying just 2.4K and getting your rig up and running while the faulty mobo gets rmaed and can sell it off later after rma for not much of a loss.
With a pricier mobo, i doubt many here will buy a secondary mobo and will prefer to wait for the rma to happen. :)

For a person who needs extra usb ports, more sata ports, etc etc- they are termed hi-end user or enthusiast, they are usually not even looking at an E5200 or a matx mobo unless for htpc purposes.
They need ATX mobos mostly as they have huge gaming grade gpu and mostly have a discrete audio card.
They mostly won't even have E5200 and if they do, it will be in their surfing/downloading rig with a Gigabyte G31.

For the reasons mentioned above, a lot of 3D artists too use the cheap but functional and very stable Gigabyte G31 mobos with Q6600 for their render rigs/servers, at stock or OCed to 3Ghz-3.2Ghz very easily- for 24x7 rendering. :cool2:

Maybe true.........

But i only know that ASUS is quite good.........
And a motherboard with G31 northbridge and ICH7 southbridge is pretty outdated and lame performer

The model I recommended has G43 northbridge and ICH10....
 
^ you didn't read that [properly and fail to get the point even if you did.

Plus no one is saying buy That Gigabyte G31 only.

If the OP says i need atleast 6 sata ports, we move on to the next segment and start hunti8ng.

IIRC, some MSI atx offering is the cheapest mobo with 6 sata ports at 6K odd.

Other features, stability. reliability, OCeability is not much widely known iirc.

One can recommend a mobo that has P45, 2x PCIe slots, 12usb ports, 6 sata ports and ICH10R.

At what cost?

Is there something called a budget that we need to adhere to.

If the OP puts a generic question, we will judge his requirements as a generic one only na.

E5200+Giga G31 make a great pair man- recommended combo for that kind of generic use.

What is the percentage of improvement with the same cpu and RAM and gpu for the extra price paid for the pricier mobo. :)

The OP hasn't even mentioned the nature of his work here.

How do we evaluate how every extra point is valuable to him unless he is specific and clear about his requirements.

For a regular home user, the G31 mobo does "almost" everything that the others can, for what price?

However dated G31 and ICH7 maybe, it surely does :everything: most want it to and is surely not a lamer perrformer imho. :)

With a potent chip like an E5200/E7200, esp OCed and a good gfx card, it makes a great gaming machine on a lean budget. :D

When a 2.4K mobo can get the work done for one "almost" (for u i.e.) as effectively, for half or less than half the cost, will you spend more?

Try out a Gigabyte G31, post some nos with ur pricier mobo and with the G31 and we shall think if we want to pay that extra for the mobo you mentioned. :)

Is it that you fail to understand as you are in denial of acknowledging having spent more for just a lil something more?

p.s. Even after posting in so much detail, if a person doesn't have basic logic/common sense to understand, i don't know how to be of help.

Posting in h/w section is such a pain now- no wonder i am rare here nowadays.

My gurus taught/teach me well, i trust them, i learn well.

If one is so closed to info, how will they ever learn? :S
 
bs0409 said:
Maybe true.........

But i only know that ASUS is quite good.........
And a motherboard with G31 northbridge and ICH7 southbridge is pretty outdated and lame performer

The model I recommended has G43 northbridge and ICH10....

Sir, since you understand chipset components so well, mind telling me what exactly it is that makes the G31/ICH7 a "lame" performer? The first release date? That's like calling a Twin Turbo Supra/R34 Skyline GTR outdated.
:rofl:
 
bs0409 said:
Maybe true.........

*sigh*

bs0409 said:
And a motherboard with G31 northbridge and ICH7 southbridge is pretty outdated and lame performer

Spending twice on a board doesn't make sense either. Intel still sucks when it comes to IGP- deal with it. Spending 4-5k on an intel IGP as far as current board's performance is concerned. You are still not being precise about lame- what is so lame about it? Spending double the money on a sad product is way more lame.

Bikey did say- It's lame believers who go on pricing rather than first hand info- who always fool themsleves into thinking 'badaa/mehengaa hai toh behtar hai" (bigger/pricier the better). Try to understand logic over here and take this as a feedback. I feel that some of the advices you give are pretty vague.
 
Amien said:
Sir, since you understand chipset components so well, mind telling me what exactly it is that makes the G31/ICH7 a "lame" performer? The first release date? That's like calling a Twin Turbo Supra/R34 Skyline GTR outdated.
:rofl:

Yes...........
The release date is AUG 2007.......!!!!!!!!!
The other limitations are:
1.No support for DDR3 ram on the G31
2. Max memory support only 4 Gb
3. Supports only PCIe x16 and not PCIe x16 v2.0
4.Onboard graphics(GMA 3100) is not so good as compared to the x 4500
Don't u find the above points as limitations????
 
The Sorcerer said:
Spending double the money on a sad product is way more lame.
Correction here- The ASUS P5QL-CM is not so sad as u think........
U can check google or some other site for reviews.........
 
bs0409 said:
The other limitations are:

1.No support for DDR3 ram on the G31

2. Max memory support only 4 Gb

3. Supports only PCIe x16 and not PCIe x16 v2.0

4.Onboard graphics(GMA 3100) is not so good as compared to the x 4500

Don't u find the above points as limitations????

What were you expecting from a board that costs 2.5k? Be realistic.
 
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bs0409 said:
Yes...........
The release date is AUG 2007.......!!!!!!!!!
The other limitations are:
1.No support for DDR3 ram on the G31
2. Max memory support only 4 Gb
3. Supports only PCIe x16 and not PCIe x16 v2.0
4.Onboard graphics(GMA 3100) is not so good as compared to the x 4500
Don't u find the above points as limitations????

You've made my point for me.
None of those 4 things you've listed matter. No, the correct term would be, irrelevant.

DDR3 RAM in excess of 4GB(which is pointless btw), Cards that can utilize the higher bandwidth provided by the PCI-E 2.0 interface(GTX 275 or above, "maybe". I was surprised you didn't list the non availability of Crossfire/SLi as a limitation :rofl: ), Anyone who is putting that kind of money into his config is obviously nowhere on the same planet as the G31, atleast if he's smart. The idea is to have a balanced config. Pairing a Q9550/E8400 with a Giga G31 is as stupid as pairing an E5200 with a UD3P.

Lastly, Take any board in the market that provides similar, not better, not equal, similar OC capability to the Giga G31 AND has a better IGP. Now subtract the cost of the Giga G31(2400 INR for the ES2L) from the cost of said competing motherboard. Then, look at what external GPU options you have with that saved money, and weather or not it beats the IGP on the competing mobo in question. I believe you will get your answer. :)

PS: Did you even read BIKeINSTEIN's last post? Even if i tried i coudn't simplify it more than that :( , come on bro, make an effort...
 
bs- are u debating on the Gigabyte EG43S2H or Asus P5QL-CM or some other mobo?

E52+2x2GB = 3.3K + 2.5K - common for both mobos (approx prices)

G31 = 2.4K (was 2.2K-2.3K)

G43 = 5.5K ??

difference 3K min?

3K = 9500GT DDR3?

Used XFX 8600GT 256MB DDR3 with 1-2 yrs wraranty left = 2K or lower.

G31 + 9500GT/8600GT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> G43 ??

Now do you get it bs? :)

bs0409 said:
Yes...........

The release date is AUG 2007.......!!!!!!!!!

The other limitations are:

1.No support for DDR3 ram on the G31

If one afforded/affords DDR3, they already have 3-4 hi-end mobos for benching or are on I7.

Or will be going i7/i5 when they want to use ddr3

4GB DDR2 is literally dirt cheap - u think evena G43 types of buyer will ignore that?
. :P

2. Max memory support only 4 Gb

How many home users, even if delving into 3D/PS at an amateur level, use more than 4GB?

Even gaming in Vista is great with 4GB.

OP said E52- we assume he is cool with 4GB.

If he says 8GB, we move on to a higher segment and pick a suitable mobo for him. :P

And the Asus G43 wants one to go 8GB with 2 slots or is that 4GB support only? :)


3. Supports only PCIe x16 and not PCIe x16 v2.0

G43 is so awesome, the PCIe slot never gets used na. So how does it matter if it's 1.0 or 2.0. :)

Also someone who has a good 2.0 card will have a E5200 and a G31 you think or a G43 for that matter?
:S

BTW, a lot/most of G43 mobos like the Gigabyte G43 have only PCIe 4x max- no PCIe 16x iirc. :)

4.Onboard graphics(GMA 3100) is not so good as compared to the x 4500

4500 is no 9500GT either. :)

Amien said:
Lastly, Take any board in the market that provides similar, not better, not equal, similar OC capability to the Giga G31 AND has a better IGP. Now subtract the cost of the Giga G31(2400 INR for the ES2L) from the cost of said competing motherboard. Then, look at what external GPU options you have with that saved money, and weather or not it beats the IGP on the competing mobo in question. I believe you will get your answer.

Is the above explanation ok.

Those prices are just indicative. :)

And we don't even know what the OP is going to do.

So if it's simple browsing +_music +movie on CRT/19" LCD, G31 is enough imho. :)

That's money saved o0ver a G43. :)

If it's gaming, most IGP's suck including the 780G. :P

Then the G43 just got pwned big time na, at almost teh same price point as a G31+8600GT/9500GT?

Amien said:
Pairing a Q9550/E8400 with a Giga G31 is as stupid as pairing an E5200 with a UD3P.

Oi- watch your words.

Please don't hurt my sentiments. :P



That's what i am using past some weeks. :ohyeah:

And i do find the E52+UD3P combo quite appealing- not stupid imho. :P

I like using solidly built and feature rich mobos. :)

After all people requiring a simple but stable mobo do pair a Gigabyte G31/EG31 with a Q6600 na. :P
 
^^ya those u hav used E5200 will like to use it with a nice mobo for sure after seeing its potential, and me too always like to use a stable mobo no matter wat proccy I'm using. :)

and btw there is no need for this much debate guys...for normal usage for a E5200, Gigabyte G31-S2L + a grfx card will do fine and gr8...and guys like Sorcerer hav no right to say I should stick with Gigabyte G31. Everyone hav there own preference, I may like imported Crucial or Cell shocks over pi blacks, Transcends over XMS2 kits, Giga UD3P/UD4 mobos over Asus P45s, Antecs and GlacialPower 650W over VX450, and so on...and I'm not forcing anyone to buy them or even not mentioning them. Can't I just suggest anything here...?!! :(
 
The Sorcerer said:
What were you expecting from a board that costs 2.5k? Be realistic.

Thats why i recommend people to buy a more costly board for better performance.

BIKeINSTEIN said:
bs- are u debating on the Gigabyte EG43S2H or Asus P5QL-CM or some other mobo?

E52+2x2GB = 3.3K + 2.5K - common for both mobos (approx prices)

G31 = 2.4K (was 2.2K-2.3K)

G43 = 5.5K ??

difference 3K min?

3K = 9500GT DDR3?

Used XFX 8600GT 256MB DDR3 with 1-2 yrs wraranty left = 2K or lower.

G31 + 9500GT/8600GT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> G43 ??

Now do you get it bs? :)
Is the above explanation ok.
Those prices are just indicative. :)

And we don't even know what the OP is going to do.
So if it's simple browsing +_music +movie on CRT/19" LCD, G31 is enough imho. :)
That's money saved o0ver a G43. :)

If it's gaming, most IGP's suck including the 780G. :P
Then the G43 just got pwned big time na, at almost teh same price point as a G31+8600GT/9500GT?

Oi- watch your words.
Please don't hurt my sentiments. :P

That's what i am using past some weeks. :ohyeah:

And i do find the E52+UD3P combo quite appealing- not stupid imho. :P
I like using solidly built and feature rich mobos. :)
After all people requiring a simple but stable mobo do pair a Gigabyte G31/EG31 with a Q6600 na. :P
Don't look only at the external GPU options..............

Also see what other things(extra) that u are getting on a standard G43 board like the Asus P5QL-CM..........

By the way, I am not saying that go for a G43 board if u just need onboard graphics. Go for G43 if the other advantages look useful to you.If u can't take advantage of them, then the extra amount of money(about 3k) will be wasted.

Also if u go for PCIe x16 v2.0 , then u have the option of buying a good GPU one year later.
PCIe x16 will be outdated soon since PCIe x16 v2.0 is becoming the flavour of the newer chipsets.

Now look at the upgrading(future proof) options with your config:
1. No chance of having ram beyond 4 Gb
2. No option of using any GPU to utilize the bandwidth of PCIe x16 v2.0.
 
^^ two questions

1. where would more than 4 gb ram will be used??

2. how much performance gain is obtained while using PCIe x16 v2.0

(remember the processor is only E5200)
 
bs0409: Who in their right mind going to spend so much on an intel IGP board? For the same money AMD's onboard is way ahead. The point still stands- no point spending so much on intel IGP. VFM factor is lost.
BTW its not "external" gpu- the graphic card is not an external component. Please follow proper terminology. Use the term "discrete gc".
 
bond_212 said:
^^ two questions
1. where would more than 4 gb ram will be used??
2. how much performance gain is obtained while using PCIe x16 v2.0

(remember the processor is only E5200)

I am talking about upgrade options...........
These days, even mid-range gaming PC's are recommended 2 x 2Gb of ram.
So u might need more than 4 Gb of ram in the future which the G31 does not allow...........

And there is significant increase in performance by using PCIe x16 v2.0 even in mid range GPU's like HD 4670 or 9600GT
 
BIKeINSTEIN said:
Oi- watch your words.
Please don't hurt my sentiments. :P

That's what i am using past some weeks. :ohyeah:

And i do find the E52+UD3P combo quite appealing- not stupid imho. :P
I like using solidly built and feature rich mobos. :)
After all people requiring a simple but stable mobo do pair a Gigabyte G31/EG31 with a Q6600 na. :P

Haha, no i think i've been pretty considerate :P , as what i said is that it's "as stupid as" pairing a quad with a G31, now obviously that is something you can do, and quite successfully at that, but it's not something i'd recommend unless you have very specific requirements. Basically, using a low end CPU with a high end mobo is "as stupid as"(if at all) the reverse(expensive CPU+Cheap mobo.) So, what im trying to say is, that the chip (while OCing) will run out of it's potential way before the motherboard, and since you can get the same level of stability from a way cheaper board, it doesn't make sense, unless ofcourse, you want to use CF/more than 4 GB/Have a CPU upgrade planned in the near future etc, which will lead to me asking as to why you are on an E5200 in the first place.
Ofcourse it's not like the end of the world or anything.. :hap2:
I hope no sentiments were hurt? :P
 
The Sorcerer said:
bs0409: Who in their right mind going to spend so much on an intel IGP board? For the same money AMD's onboard is way ahead. The point still stands- no point spending so much on intel IGP. VFM factor is lost.
BTW its not "external" gpu- the graphic card is not an external component. Please follow proper terminology. Use the term "discrete gc".

ohhhhhhhhhhh.....
come on.............
I am talking about upgrade options.............
If u plan to use the E5200 forever, then it's ok to use G31.

If u plan to upgrade a year later, then it's better to invest in a future proof motherboard.Here are the points

1.Since the user talks about IGP, theres no point arguing about an external GPU.
2.Among onboard IGP, x4500 is better than GMA 3100.
3. the chipset G43 is also quite future proof supporting upto 16 Gb ram and PCIe x16 v2.0 which will be the main interface to be used by GPU's 2010 and onwards.

Understand what I am trying to say.......
1.Invest 3k more in a G43 mobo now.
2.Enjoy the benefits of x4500(latest IGP) which is the best intel IGP until u plan to upgrade
3.When upgrading, u can upgrade to quad core,put more RAM and invest in a mid-range GPU which utilizes the double bandwidth of PCIe x16 v2.0.
Spending more money does'nt always mean that u only get better features, it also implies better upgrading options.
 
bs0409 said:
ohhhhhhhhhhh.....
come on.............
I am talking about upgrade options.............
If u plan to use the E5200 forever, then it's ok to use G31.

If u plan to upgrade a year later, then it's better to invest in a future proof motherboard.Here are the points

1.Since the user talks about IGP, theres no point arguing about an external GPU.
2.Among onboard IGP, x4500 is better than GMA 3100.
3. the chipset G43 is also quite future proof supporting upto 16 Gb ram and PCIe x16 v2.0 which will be the main interface to be used by GPU's 2010 and onwards.

Understand what I am trying to say.......
1.Invest 3k more in a G43 mobo now.
2.Enjoy the benefits of x4500(latest IGP) which is the best intel IGP until u plan to upgrade
3.When upgrading, u can upgrade to quad core,put more RAM and invest in a mid-range GPU which utilizes the double bandwidth of PCIe x16 v2.0.
Spending more money does'nt always mean that u only get better features, it also implies better upgrading options.

You're on an ageing socket (LGA 775) as it is, any upgrade you make will be redundant, unless your updates are quick and frequent, which again defeats the whole purpose.
The upgrade path argument is never a good one, what you're supposed to do is buy the best you can right now. I think that's a fundamental thing that you aren't getting.
Why don't i just sell the G31 when i want to upgrade? Even if it holds 80% of it's value, and if it's a year later, there is a good chance i can pick up your "G43" for the same price as the G31 now :rofl:
 
Amien said:
You're on an ageing socket (LGA 775) as it is, any upgrade you make will be redundant, unless your updates are quick and frequent, which again defeats the whole purpose.
The upgrade path argument is never a good one, what you're supposed to do is buy the best you can right now. I think that's a fundamental thing that you aren't getting.
Why don't i just sell the G31 when i want to upgrade? Even if it holds 80% of it's value, and if it's a year later, there is a good chance i can pick up your "G43" for the same price as the G31 now :rofl:

LGA 775 is not so outdated as u think......
It will be in use even in 2010 and 2011.....
And the biggest advantage of LGA 775 is that it supports quad core 45 nm pcocessors which should get u going for a long time.

Selling items (especially G31 mobos) does'nt come to my mind very easily because there is high chance that even a year later the mobo u are debating about will become outdated and no one will want to buy it ..............
 
..meanwhile roby777 ran abandoned the thread :P. In the spirit of entertaining myself

@ BS: Read what the OP says:

Ok.. m getting E5200.. suggest a good mobo with decent onboard graphics.. thats it..

THAT'S IT!!!! Just some decent onboard gfx for the money he is paying. He is not buying the board to make a toast. If he does- you can tell him to buy the hottest prescott proccy on the planet, Install Thermalright IFX14 without any thermalpaste, put a slice of bread in between. Guaranteed you will break bikey's winning streak as an MOTM :P if op does ask.
 
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