How India’s poultry farms are spawning global superbugs

[swatkats]

Ahh not this American pharma industry BS again. Well we all know its not proven scientifically, So All this bashing.

I recently gone through some good researched speeches who explain how homeopathy works. I have to agree with them.. (Starts at 2:05 in Telugu)

Well even i take Saridon for headaches!

 

[Lord Nemesis]

James Randi has no relationship with Pharma industry. He is a magician (rather illusionist) and a rationalist who spent a good part of his life debunking irrational beliefs in psychics, fortunetellers, spiritual medium's and that sort. He has regularly demonstrated the efficacy of homeopathic medicines on stage by taking large doses of "sleeping medicines" and other preparations.

Forget whether its scientifically proven or not. The theory itself is flawed in every way.

These preparations are diluted to such a degree that there might not be even a single molecule of the active ingredient left anymore. So, its as good as plain water which is exactly what a lot of these so called preparations end up being. Why even bother preparing a solution which doesn't even have a chance of containing the active ingredient anyway when you can just whip up a few sugar balls with some alcohol to make people think that it contains medicine.

An uncle of mine who knows several homeopathy doctors closely told me once that many doctors are not even bothering with the ingredients anymore these days. Plain sugar balls will do. How do you even prove that there is no medicine in it. Since "potent" means extreme dilution, none of the "potent" preparations will have high enough concentrations to even detect that there is some ingredient in there at all. My uncle himself has "cured" minor ailments of relatives with plain sugar balls.

Which is why I said that any thing that can be cured with homeopathy can be cured without it. If i give you plain sugar balls and your ailment goes way or at least you think it went away and it does the same for 10 more people, it will be deemed effective, but it does not mean its medicine. Homeopathy works the same way as any sort of faith healing.

 

[pratikb]

What your uncle did is Placebo effect.

 

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No, there are certain antibiotics which are called GPAs(growth promoting antibiotics) which are used on chickens. Problem is if they're used more, chickens grow more healthy and big. So, instead of using it in recommended amounts by WHO, chicken producers are increasing more and more amounts to get bigger chickens which inturn makes more chances for antibiotic bacteria to grow[DOUBLEPOST=1517632564][/DOUBLEPOST]
Its down. I'll keep an eye on it

So its a question of enforcement by the animal husbandry dept then. Not avoiding chicken altogether.

 

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exactly. Even desi doctors are to blame. I got a cold and pains in winter and I went to doctor thinking it may be something more and the antibiotics he gave me, my god. powerful af. I showed it to my doctor friend and she was like if anything happens in future, come to me. dont go to that guy.

I had fever once. I don't get sick and it was so long i had a fever i forgot what it felt like. Viral they called it. Quite unpleasant. Doctor gave me some anti-biotics. In six hours my head cleared up. I was eating normally a couple of days later. I was back on my feet. And cost of drugs + doctor was around 1k. This is what keeps patients coming back

Later i learnt it was some multi-spectrum anti-biotic. Some american guy lecturing me i shouldn't have taken it. well what was the alternative. I should have got a test, add few k to the bill, then a specific anti-biotic to target just that germ, add even more cost and time. My doctr laughed it off and said the only people who could definitively tell me what exact bug i contracted were in Delhi. He didn't need any of that info to treat me. He was right.[DOUBLEPOST=1517705442][/DOUBLEPOST]

What your uncle did is Placebo effect.

Which is as powerful as the mind deems it to be as is its opposite the nocebo

 

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What does your homeopathy doctor prescribe?
Same medicines which are officially and legally prescribed by allopathy doctors.

My doc told me this. And you think wow. Ayurvedic, homepathic and all of a sudden you are legit in the eyes of many.

My way of looking at this, is we don't have enough doctors for the population we have. So if many believe in alternative methods the lines i face will be far shorter

So let people believe whatever they want. In fact i'd go so far as to encourage them. Some of these alternative doctors have waiting lists that stretch into weeks. Imagine that.

Allopathy doc would prescribe rational medicines which would create less or no side effects but same medicines or higher medicines given by homeopathy doc is more harmful.
Do think about that.

Exactly. I have many family members that swear by alternative methods. I guess if you have a bad experience then your faith in the profession is shattered.

 

[swatkats]

Twelve of the 18 farms studied, or 67%, reported the use of antimicrobials as growth boosters. Tetracyclines and fluoroquinolones, antibiotics commonly used to treat cholera, malaria, respiratory and urinary tract infections in humans, were the most commonly used antimicrobials, with nine farms admitting their use.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/heal...says-expert/story-6W6b10gfdUKhOkrTSscDlL.html

Q: Chickens that are provided good nutrition, clean water and kept in hygienic pens don’t need antibiotics. Consumers abroad are aware of concepts like free-range chicken farming and pastured poultry which require that animals be reared ethically. But Indian consumers remain largely ignorant of these issues. You found that here, antibiotics are being used as a cheap substitute for basic nutrition and treatment. In the 18 farms you visited, you found large flocks, more than 50,000 birds, kept in confined areas lacking proper sanitation. To what extent does the lack of consumer awareness in India impede reform? What are the laws on the use of antibiotics as growth promoters in the poultry industry in the US, the European Union and India?

As far back as 1986, Sweden banned the use of antibiotics as growth promoters in the poultry industry as a result of consumer awareness. Consumer movements in the EU and the US have played a major role in introducing poultry farming standards and legislation to regulate the use of antibiotics. In 2006, the EU banned the use of antibiotics used in humans as poultry growth promoters. In 2015, the US introduced the veterinary feed directive whereby the use of drugs on the veterinary feed directive list is permitted only under the professional supervision of a licensed veterinarian. This is a step in the right direction.

Government agencies in India including the Central Drugs Standard Control Organization and the Food Safety and Standards Authority of India have the regulatory authority to impose restrictions on the use of antibiotics as growth promoters in poultry but have not moved in this direction so far.

In India, low farmer awareness is as much a concern as low consumer awareness. In the absence of regulation, most of the poultry feed available in the market is medicated. But the majority of the farmers we surveyed reported being unaware of the presence of antibiotic growth promoters premixed in chicken feed purchased from feed mills. Some farmers are genuinely unaware of the potential harm from using antibiotics as growth promoters. One farmer noted that antimicrobials were more effective than hygiene or sanitation measures because the labour on poultry farms is unskilled. Of course, this is an excuse to continue misusing antibiotics. India saw demonetisation happen overnight. If a similar will is exercised by the state and central governments to check the rampant misuse of antibiotics, we could see great change happen soon.

 

[pratikb]

To give example of homeopathy business,
Colistin is prescribed by homeo guys without knowing anything.

When colistin is reserved drug.,how they can prescribe ?

All it does is expose previously sensitive organism to colistin and killing all other antibiotics chance to kill that organism.
So next time,all you can use is colistin when other antibioitics could be used.

All that you and me loose is precious time and pt goes much higher with all toxicity and morbidity of sepsis. It increases chance of mortality of patient.[DOUBLEPOST=1517732055][/DOUBLEPOST]We have lost countless antibiotics due to these so called homeopathy experts using antibiotics without any reason or culture sensitivity report.
Loss is of general public and treating doctor.
Loss to pt. family is altogether different.

 

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Chickens in India are dosed with a very strong drug used to treat critically ill patients: Study

Key bit of this article is

“Colistin-resistant bacteria will spread on the chicken farms, in the air surrounding them, contaminate the meat, spread to the farm workers, and through their faeces flies will spread it over large distances,” Timothy Walsh, a global expert on antibiotic resistance, told the bureau. He said the drug should only be used on very sick patients and not exported for feeding chickens.

Not that if you eat chicken that has been treated with collistin that you also magically develop a resistance to the drug. So what was the need for saying the below

McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut and Domino’s claimed that the chicken they sourced from Venky’s was not raised on such antibiotics.

Even if their chicken was raised on anti-biotics there isn't a problem. Rather these companies are being pressured not to buy from these farms

 

[Party Monger]

Not that if you eat chicken that has been treated with collistin that you also magically develop a resistance to the drug. So what was the need for saying the below

If you ingest that bacteria, your bacteri caused illnesses will be resistant to medicines using those antibiotics. And by ingest I mean, eat, touch whatever. There is bacteria in almost all of your body.

 

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If you ingest that bacteria, your bacteri caused illnesses will be resistant to medicines using those antibiotics. And by ingest I mean, eat, touch whatever. There is bacteria in almost all of your body.

Right, but how will that happen ?

You wash the chicken. There is no medium rare with chicken, it needs to be well done. In the home dealing with raw chicken the same would be followed to prevent salmonella poisoning.

 

[hotshot05]

Key bit of this article is



Not that if you eat chicken that has been treated with collistin that you also magically develop a resistance to the drug. So what was the need for saying the below



Even if their chicken was raised on anti-biotics there isn't a problem. Rather these companies are being pressured not to buy from these farms

If the bacteria become Collistin resistant, they will remain inside the chicken's meat as collistin will be unable to kill it off. So you will get the mutated bacteria from the chicken that you eat.

 

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If the bacteria become Collistin resistant, they will remain inside the chicken's meat as collistin will be unable to kill it off. So you will get the mutated bacteria from the chicken that you eat.

Article does not say ingesting colistin treated chicken means colistin drugs become ineffective on whoever eats it

 

[Party Monger]

Right, but how will that happen ?

You wash the chicken. There is no medium rare with chicken, it needs to be well done. In the home dealing with raw chicken the same would be followed to prevent salmonella poisoning.

There's plenty of ways. Ive had raw chicken at the best of places. They might wash the chicken but not their hands or utensils in which itwas before. Theres a hundred ways it can happen. The idea is to stop with the conspiracy theories and start being rational. End stage anti-biotics are for ..end stage, last resort.

 

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Raw chicken isn't safe to eat, because of salmonella let alone anything else. I would refuse to eat chicken that was not properly cooked or even pork for that matter.

Anther point to be made here is eggs. NO raw eggs either. Particularly in India where they aren't even refrigerated.

 

[Party Monger]

Article does not say ingesting colistin treated chicken means colistin drugs become ineffective on whoever eats it

Thats exactly what it says. The drugs fight the bacteria in your body causing the infection , they dont work on "you" specifically. lol[DOUBLEPOST=1517745840][/DOUBLEPOST]

Raw chicken isn't safe to eat, because of salmonella let alone anything else. I would refuse to eat chicken that was not properly cooked or even pork for that matter.

Often by the time you find out its raw, its too late. You've touched it and probably chewed it. Hence the precaution against not using those anti-biotics in the first place.

 

[hotshot05]

Right, but how will that happen ?

You wash the chicken. There is no medium rare with chicken, it needs to be well done. In the home dealing with raw chicken the same would be followed to prevent salmonella poisoning.

Rather than home use where chicken is cooked properly, there are many eateries where the chicken may be undercooked. You can get the mutated bacteria from there.
Also the bacteria is present in chicken faeces. In the local market, the faeces will be dumped in the sewers or on the road. The surface will absorb the dirty water with mutated bacteria and will be present in the ground water.
Also sewer water is treated(mostly) and thrown into water sources from which your drinking water will be sourced (after chlorine and other treatment). So the mutated bacteria can be there in your municipality provided drinking water.

 

[blr_p]

Thats exactly what it says. The drugs fight the bacteria in your body causing the infection , they dont work on "you" specifically. lol

No it doesn't say that

Often by the time you find out its raw, its too late. You've touched it and probably chewed it. Hence the precaution against not using those anti-biotics in the first place.

One bite won't kill you and you can tell raw chicken easily by the texture.

 

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Rather than home use where chicken is cooked properly, there are many eateries where the chicken may be undercooked. You can get the mutated bacteria from there.

Better chose where you eat wisely then. For many other reasons besides this.

Also the bacteria is present in chicken faeces. In the local market, the faeces will be dumped in the sewers or on the road. The surface will absorb the dirty water with mutated bacteria and will be present in the ground water.

This is one mode of transmission

Also sewer water is treated(mostly) and thrown into water sources from which your drinking water will be sourced (after chlorine and other treatment). So the mutated bacteria can be there in your municipality provided drinking water.

How resistant the bacteria is t those treatments. Is boiling enough to kill it. What about cooking. Those valid questions aren't answered at all. Which makes it a poorly researched article imo

 

[Party Monger]

No it doesn't say that


One bite won't kill you and you can tell raw chicken easily by the texture.

Lmao if 1 bite is 1 inch, that's 10,00,000 bacterial cells you are probably ingesting at the most conservative measure. I'd say take a bite and come back to tell the story, then we'll believe you[DOUBLEPOST=1517747262][/DOUBLEPOST]

How resistant the bacteria is t those treatments. Is boiling enough to kill it. What about cooking. Those valid questions aren't answered at all. Which makes it a poorly researched article imo

The article subject how its making super bugs. Its subject is not to tell you solutions for it. Stop trying to kill the messenger.

Resistance means complete resistance. You get an infection of them, write your will ASAP.