Looky what arrived in the mail today....
- Thread starter sjaveri
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AMG
Herald
raksrules
Oracle
Still 58K ?? I am not judging the OP here as I know a nano can also be driven and so can a BMW or Ferrari and people buy what they want but 58K seems really over the top.
I don't understand headphones or IEMs so I cannot tell but what is so great about these ?
esanthosh
Herald
First up, a disclosure to let you know where I am coming from. See the posts here and here.
What is so great about it? HD800 is generally considered to be the best dynamic headphone out there.
One man's 'necessity' is another man's criminal waste of money. All hobbies are like that and audio is no exception
. That is because the outsider only sees the money spent, whereas the end user can realize the value or worth it brings. It is the same in every non-essential spending.In fact, I don't understand why people want to splurge money on mobiles and laptops and all these technical gadgets when they add little value for money. They are already obsolete when you buy them and it also rapidly depreciates in value. I run PCs until they self destruct. My 5 year old PC was re-purposed as a HTPC and has been running fine for the past 2.5 years (7.5 years may be like decades in Internet time). But, I do not need an i7 (or whatever it is ToTL these days, I don't follow) to run my few Excel macros, whereas another person may need GBs of RAM and all that processing power just to load the files he is working on.
On the other hand, I absolutely understand why one would spend 58K on a headphone. If I had...
- ... more interest in headphones (my headphones are lying unused for the last couple of years)
- ... owned a proper setup to drive them
- ... some excess money lying around in the bank account
My dream setup would be something like an Invicta Mirus -> HeadAmp BHSE -> Stax SR-009. The cost of that setup would be something around $15K and that does not include customs duty and taxes. Why would any one in the right mind lust after that? You cannot wish for it unless.....
- You understand the law of diminishing returns in audio. Today's $50 IEMs sound a lot better than the $100 IEMs of old. Today's $400 IEM is not 8X better than the $50 IEM, it is just 'better'. If it is what you want, then that is what you have to spend to get it. The new headphone may cost 3X more than your last headphone and the actual improvement may only be 10%, but what improvements appear in that 10% is what makes you forget the cost.
- You have affordability. It is a hobby, not something your life depends on. You first and foremost save and spend on your family and all the needs and wants. Any excess cash can go towards this.
- You are spending because you want it and you want to experience what it brings, not to show-off or to prove a point.
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Well said esanthosh I had some excess money lying around and since i love my music, i decided why not and took the plunge. These headphones are basically endgame audiophile material, and i wanted to experience this pair because i just love my music that much. Sadly, this was an impulse purchase, not one i regret at all, but one that has left me handicapped as i do not have a good amp to utilize them to the fullest. I am using a Xonar Essence STX sound card which was previously paired with my HD 598's, but from what i have read online it is no good for the 800's. Looking into getting perhaps the Xonar Essence One Muses Edition after saving up some in a few months perhaps. I've heard that they have a fantastic DAC, and although the amp leaves a bit to be desired, at its price range it is pretty good. Also, i've heard it performs particularly well with Sennheiser headphones, even the 800's. No point spending around $2k currently for me for a dac/amp combo right now, hopefully the Essence One Muses will suffice once i get it
@raksrules yes these are $1500 headphones, and they cost around 80-90k here unless you find a lucky deal perhaps. Everywhere online i have looked they seem to be atleast $1400 or so internationally, i cant seem to find a new pair for cheaper. Regardless, cost was not a factor really for me in this case, i just wanted the best and to be done with it, not to keep upgrading every now and then because music deserves that something special for me.
@esanthosh Initial reactions are wow, the soundstage is absolutely massive for one! Some of my songs are definitely sounding different, i wouldnt say its totally night and day from my 598's which are great phones in their own right, but the difference is there for sure. Obviously i am not using these to anywhere near their full potential with a xonar essence stx card, but i hope to improve on that soon and once these are burned in i will give my updated impressions.
I had some excess money lying around and since i love my music, i decided why not and took the plunge. These headphones are basically endgame audiophile material, and i wanted to experience this pair because i just love my music that much. Sadly, this was an impulse purchase, not one i regret at all, but one that has left me handicapped as i do not have a good amp to utilize them to the fullest. I am using a Xonar Essence STX sound card which was previously paired with my HD 598's, but from what i have read online it is no good for the 800's. Looking into getting perhaps the Xonar Essence One Muses Edition after saving up some in a few months perhaps. I've heard that they have a fantastic DAC, and although the amp leaves a bit to be desired, at its price range it is pretty good. Also, i've heard it performs particularly well with Sennheiser headphones, even the 800's. No point spending around $2k currently for me for a dac/amp combo right now, hopefully the Essence One Muses will suffice once i get it @raksrules yes these are $1500 headphones, and they cost around 80-90k here unless you find a lucky deal perhaps. Everywhere online i have looked they seem to be atleast $1400 or so internationally, i cant seem to find a new pair for cheaper. Regardless, cost was not a factor really for me in this case, i just wanted the best and to be done with it, not to keep upgrading every now and then because music deserves that something special for me.
@esanthosh Initial reactions are wow, the soundstage is absolutely massive for one! Some of my songs are definitely sounding different, i wouldnt say its totally night and day from my 598's which are great phones in their own right, but the difference is there for sure. Obviously i am not using these to anywhere near their full potential with a xonar essence stx card, but i hope to improve on that soon and once these are burned in i will give my updated impressions.
esanthosh
Herald
Though many on head-fi will tell you that using HD800 with the lowly STX is blasphemy, I would say that you have done the right thing by going for HD800. Once you have the headphone taken care of, the rest is incremental upgrade in the form of DAC-Amp etc., But, yes! in DAC/Amp too, once you step outside of say $500, same law of diminishing returns would apply. May be you can also keep an eye on DAC-Amp used deals from Head-fi. Research well before you get any DAC/Amp.
@hotshot05,
Yeah! Usually, I'd agree with such reviews since many of audiophool's high priced items are snake oil. Search for Amazon reviews of $1000 cables, they are even funnier. But, since I have heard from people I trust about HD800 and can kind of relate about the sound quality upgrade based on my IEM experience, I would ignore those FK reviews
raksrules
Oracle
@esanthosh
I am not doubting you and i know your association with audio accessories. It is just that since i am someone who does not understand these high end audio equipment, i just cannot get why this thing costs a kidney selling 60K INR or so.
@sjaveri
As i mentioned before, i am not judging you at all. It's your money and you can spend anyways you want. I have been in your shoes once when i bought UE TF10 from amazon for like 6-7K or so but i never used them mainly because music listening for me reduced very very much and for normal TV series audio, a 500 Rs JVC Marshmallows also work for me well. It is just that price is like very very high and don't know why.
One honest question though, however good these earphones / headphones may be but still the whooping 50-60K price..is it justified or worth ?
I am reminded of the monster cable reviews i had seen amazon.com after reading those FK reviews.
I am not doubting you and i know your association with audio accessories. It is just that since i am someone who does not understand these high end audio equipment, i just cannot get why this thing costs a kidney selling 60K INR or so.
@sjaveri
As i mentioned before, i am not judging you at all. It's your money and you can spend anyways you want. I have been in your shoes once when i bought UE TF10 from amazon for like 6-7K or so but i never used them mainly because music listening for me reduced very very much and for normal TV series audio, a 500 Rs JVC Marshmallows also work for me well. It is just that price is like very very high and don't know why.
One honest question though, however good these earphones / headphones may be but still the whooping 50-60K price..is it justified or worth ?
I am reminded of the monster cable reviews i had seen amazon.com after reading those FK reviews.
esanthosh
Herald
Honest answer. It depends! Because there ARE costlier products in audio which are terrible (like audiophile players which suck when it comes to daily use) or not suited for your preferences (and the second part is very, very important). Nothing costlier than $150 in IEM world is going to justify itself in terms of 'value for money'. But, they can prove to be 'worthy' if they give you enough of an sound quality upgrade over what you currently own. That is how I evaluate these costlier hobby items.
I would re-post my conclusion from this post (which is a slightly different take of the post I linked above)
I don't yet know the answer to questions like 'Are Customs better than Universals?'. It would be ridiculous to attempt an answer based on one custom IEM and about 15? 20? (may be more, I lose count every time) universals I currently have in my possession. But, I can surely say that 4C, on account of having least negatives for my tastes would be certainly near the top of my heap, if not the very top. Despite the ups and downs of this story, I do feel that the whole effort was quite fruitful in the end.
This was no small amount of money (at least for me), but most of it went towards customization of the IEM. The re-sale value is far less, considering that I have to take into account that the buyer would need to pay $200 + his own set of options to effect an Ownership Transfer. So, the 'value for money' aspect of 4C is in my view, is not worth considering.
But, is it 'worth' it? I don't know the answer yet. When I switched from my 29" Panasonic CRT straight to Sony 46HX925, I wasn't sure either. But, over a period of time, I have derived enough use and pleasure from it. So, I do not think back on the cost incurred (even though it remains the costliest electronic product around). Likewise, if 4C serves me well in the coming months and I remain more satisfied than dissatisfied, then I'd say I have 'derived' my money's worth.
Ritvik
Forerunner
Congrats, I'm green with envy! Among the currently produced headphones a lot of people rate this as almost as highly as the SR009. Don't worry about the amp for now, it looks like you got a great deal on the headphones. Like Santosh said everything else is a small step up, although it is often more noticeable with higher end equipment such as yours. Save up at get the hdva 600/800 in the future
Congrats, I'm green with envy! Among the currently produced headphones a lot of people rate this as almost as highly as the SR009. Don't worry about the amp for now, it looks like you got a great deal on the headphones. Like Santosh said everything else is a small step up, although it is often more noticeable with higher end equipment such as yours. Save up at get the hdva 600/800 in the future
Yeah, even with my limited sound card relative to these headphones im in love with music all over again lol. I was thinking of doing an incremental upgrade first with maybe the Asus Xonar Essence One Muses Edition, i hear it has almost an endgame DAC, and for its price is fantastic for the hd 800's. The amp is slightly lacking still, but again it should sound pretty good atleast for a few months or a year till i take the plunge fully with the Hdvd 800 perhaps. What do you think?
raja_mastana
Galvanizer
raksrules
Well, i have seen people buying "vibration free" audio racks worth almost 10,00,000 INR (These are racks on which you would place your CDP/AMP etc )
If the owner of a product is happy and his needs are satisfied - a product is worth its cost. We may not be able to appreciate them because its not what we need. The company might have spent huge on RnD to develop this product and feel they have something unique, hence the price. So 60,000 for a critical equipment (like headphones) in music listening .... seems justified if the owner is happy
sjaveri
Congrats
Well, i have seen people buying "vibration free" audio racks worth almost 10,00,000 INR (These are racks on which you would place your CDP/AMP etc )
If the owner of a product is happy and his needs are satisfied - a product is worth its cost. We may not be able to appreciate them because its not what we need. The company might have spent huge on RnD to develop this product and feel they have something unique, hence the price. So 60,000 for a critical equipment (like headphones) in music listening .... seems justified if the owner is happy
sjaveri
Congrats
Because most low cost products are quite crappy. But since most consumers have very low expectations, this is fine. Most people who listen on 5k earbuds and cans have no real idea how music is supposed to sound, and so companies can get away with peddling total nonsense.
The estimated parts cost for any product, across almost all electronic categories, varies between 5 and 15% of the total cost. So for a pair of buds costing say 2500, the total cost of wires, plastic assembly and driver, the manufacturer will not spend more than Rs 400. Another 15% for manufacturing, and the rest is for logistics, marketing and margins. Guess how good that product's going to be. And this is also the reason that a set of speakers costing 2500 is so much worse than those headphones, because there are more parts, and bigger ones. Something's gotta give.
"Let's make a little less profit on this one", said never a manufacturer.
What is good value for one, may not be good value for another. My main stereo setup costs about 5x what the HD800 costs. I still see it as good value. I know this because I know what real music is supposed to sound like - and how close/far systems can get. I do also understand people's eyes popping when they receive the answer to that question, and their incredulous stare. Some people will never understand and that's fine.
"A life without pursuit of beauty is a life wasted."
Arjan
Discoverer
I may be a little envious too....! but only 'cos he got it for an unbelievable price (58k) !!
Otherwise, Congrats @sjaveri : You Sir, have got yourself the best of the best!!
And to those, who might not be able to justify the price tag, I think my first statement says it all -- I think the price was a bargain
On a side note, I feel elated and maybe a little proud too...that Indian audiophiles are coming of age !! It's high time...
Cheers on that note
Otherwise, Congrats @sjaveri : You Sir, have got yourself the best of the best!!
And to those, who might not be able to justify the price tag, I think my first statement says it all -- I think the price was a bargain
On a side note, I feel elated and maybe a little proud too...that Indian audiophiles are coming of age !! It's high time...
Cheers on that note
indialogue
Contributor
There was a bundle offer in Flipkart for 58K or so recently
@esanthosh, what - really?? When was that and what was the offer - some more details please so I can look out for it!
And congrats @sjaveri
@esanthosh, what - really?? When was that and what was the offer - some more details please so I can look out for it!
And congrats @sjaveri
esanthosh
Herald
@indialogue,
There were a couple of limited time combo offers in the past for HD800 that brought down the cost closer to 60K
See: http://www.head-fi.org/t/428935/rol...in-high-end-headphones-iems/210#post_10316767
There were a couple of limited time combo offers in the past for HD800 that brought down the cost closer to 60K
See: http://www.head-fi.org/t/428935/rol...in-high-end-headphones-iems/210#post_10316767
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