avi
Keymaster
sauce: http://www.financialexpress.com/art...pen-out-of-india-asks-pm-narendra-modi/49271/
why do you think so?
why do you think so?
Modi asks: Why didn’t a Google happen out of India
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aman.pitbull
Forerunner
Because 'Sarkar', VSNl - MTNL and BSNL happened in India.
Because we stress on the education of rote learning, not innovation or concept building. Imagine that today Indias average IQ is around 80, whereas China is around 100. An entire generation has been damaged already.
What innovation has come out of china lately? I wonder why we have such a low opinion of ourselves.
World's first non-white nobel prize winner in science was an Indian (Raman).
Indians were doing cutting edge science in India in the first half of the 20th century. Bose-Einstein statistics was developed by a professor at Dhaka Univ (S N Bose).
If it counts, world's first non-white nobel prize winner was an Indian (Tagore).
All this happened before Chinese and the Japanese developed any real modern science.
So Modi's question is a valid one. We should have taken off in science post independence. It did not happen and we should analyse and correct it rather than get cynical.
Why does India need to invent Google anyway? I'm sure we already did that centuries back. We just need to find the right shlokas to fit the narrative.
In fact, I'd say the exact opposite. Most Indians have a very high opinion about themselves. And what innovation has come out of China lately? Come on. You're just a search away from finding out. It's not like the Chinese are just building knockoff devices and assembling iPhones, just like Indians are not just building IT services companies and call centers. There's much to it below the surface, and you don't have to disparage the efforts of others to prove yourself better.
Yes, they're the ones we should be praising. Considering we weren't independent back then, that makes the effort of these Indians even more brilliant. India has contributed greatly to the fields of science and mathematics. Instead of trumped up myths, it'll be great if those are highlighted instead.
Japanese? They were a prosperous nation before us. Forgot World War II? Maglev trains? Japanese automobiles? Electronics? And a shit load of other things. The Chinese were late into the game, but they've progressed well since then. I'd say China and India pretty much on par, except we're a democracy and they're not. So that makes our efforts much more worthwhile.
We did take off in science post-independence. From having no infrastructure whatsoever to support ourselves (which is also one of the largest nations on the planet) we somehow managed to get past all the initial hurdles. Industries were built. Educational institutions were set up. Agricultural practices were reformed. A strong military to counter aggressive neighbors. And a heck lot of stuff was done in the years following independence. Most developed countries were shocked at our progress. They still are, when we're sending probes to the Moon and Mars.
^^^ You have spoken a lot but said little that is useful. Please check you dates and data before making an emotionally charged response.
FYI:
- Japanese MAGLEV program is a post world war II initiative.
- The first Japanese science nobel prize came in 1949, a good 2 decade after Indian got it.
I will give you one though. The japanese did have a better manufacturing industry than the indians in the early 20th century. The electronics industry boom is a post ww ii phenomena though they did have a modest electronics industry before.
The point I am trying to make is, India had a decent head start in the early 20th century. But be screwed it up. So Modi's call for introspection is a valid one.
FYI:
- Japanese MAGLEV program is a post world war II initiative.
- The first Japanese science nobel prize came in 1949, a good 2 decade after Indian got it.
I will give you one though. The japanese did have a better manufacturing industry than the indians in the early 20th century. The electronics industry boom is a post ww ii phenomena though they did have a modest electronics industry before.
The point I am trying to make is, India had a decent head start in the early 20th century. But be screwed it up. So Modi's call for introspection is a valid one.
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Thank you.
And that makes how much of a difference? Nobel prize is just a label.
Not really. We didn't have a headstart. You can't invest on research much when basic needs of the citizens aren't being met. Modi's just grandstanding. A Google in India? Seriously.
Ok. I am speechless. If you ever meet a science nobel prize winner, please tell him/her this
Can I get this label too? Or do I have to do something useful?
ivhere
Galvanizer
Today's Google search engine is the work of an Indian Amit Singhal. Who have rewritten Google's Search Engine in 2001.
So India's Problem is not about talent it is something else.
So India's Problem is not about talent it is something else.
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Modi needs a Six Sigma team and they should start with an RCA.
Will post more.
Will post more.
What I meant was just winning a prize doesn't naturally amount to scientific advancement of the entire nation. I wasn't debating it from an individual perspective, but that of the entire nation. A Pakistani has won it too. Obviously, it's a big achievement for the person. But unless citizens of a particular country are winning it in droves, and regularly, it doesn't mean anything. It's just a label.Ok. I am speechless. If you ever meet a science nobel prize winner, please tell him/her this
Can I get this label too? Or do I have to do something useful?
It's encouraging for us though. It means there's someone out there from here who's already done it, living in the same conditions as us. So, to answer your question, yes, you can get this label too.
I think Modiji succeeded in his motive by asking the right question at right time... when whole world is expecting that it's India's chance to fly, some introspection is necessary.
He achieved his motive by making us think, this discussion justifies that.
@ivhere yes, the problem is somewhere else, Research and innovation requires us to ask the right questions and go about solving it.
As a society we are against anybody asking questions, from our religious beliefs to culture we don't encourage anyone asking questions; Instead penalize or ostracize the person asking questions.
Things are even worse when someone asks uncomfortable questions, especially on religious and political beliefs. See how RTI activists are treated...
Second important issue is our investment in research, both public and private.
We need to retrospect and change our mindset, education policy, investment policy as regards to research.
He achieved his motive by making us think, this discussion justifies that.
@ivhere yes, the problem is somewhere else, Research and innovation requires us to ask the right questions and go about solving it.
As a society we are against anybody asking questions, from our religious beliefs to culture we don't encourage anyone asking questions; Instead penalize or ostracize the person asking questions.
Things are even worse when someone asks uncomfortable questions, especially on religious and political beliefs. See how RTI activists are treated...
Second important issue is our investment in research, both public and private.
We need to retrospect and change our mindset, education policy, investment policy as regards to research.
Onemufc
Herald
Because our students concentrate more on marks than understanding.
Because the society judges us with what we do and innovation comes bottom of things you should do.
Because we are being hypocrites, racists and self-centered people in the world.
*Stop before this becomes a rant*
Seriously, I had this debate a few weeks ago with one of my friends which started with you always use foreign products and I asked him how many things he uses which are invented/made in India.
Because the society judges us with what we do and innovation comes bottom of things you should do.
Because we are being hypocrites, racists and self-centered people in the world.
*Stop before this becomes a rant*
Seriously, I had this debate a few weeks ago with one of my friends which started with you always use foreign products and I asked him how many things he uses which are invented/made in India.
Peace prize is doled out by a committee of politicians. It is different from the science prizes.
Coming back to topic:
Google is a very unique American/Silicon Valley phenomena. Google couldn't even have happened even in Europe or Japan or China.
Modi's question is more about soul searching. To those who have quick answers either way, here are a few points to ponder:
- Baidu is the second larest search engine in the world. How did it get there? Are we willing to replicate the model?
- What role did MITI of Japan have in the success of Japanese industries?
- How is it that the world's largest steel company is run and managed by Indians.
- Why is it that Japanese companies, which were so successful in electronics and automobile, couldn't make their mark in software? To those who are young, let me assure you that it was not for the lack of trying.
- How did the Japanese bootstrap their manufacturing industry in the Meiji period (late 19th/early 20th century).
Success in industry is a complicated thing. It takes more that just a group of smart engineers or not learning by rote. I have worked with Indian and american engineers. Yes, the americans are far ahead right now, but there is nothing that the Indians can't learn. Besides, engineering skill is a commodity. It can be bought.[DOUBLEPOST=1425364674][/DOUBLEPOST]
He won it in the 70s. Besides, Abdus Salam's higher education was in Cambridge. Not an completely indigenous product of pakistan's system.
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IMO, before I answer that, I would rather ask Modi a question - does India have an internet infrastructure to support a company like google? A company needs to be at least decent famous in its own country before it can fly all over the world.
India is ranked 62nd even behind even Pakistan in terms of "relative value of broadband":
http://www.netindex.com/value/allcountries/
Instead of trying to improve the broadband infrastructure and lowering barrier entry costs, we have tons of scams related to telecom. That again pulls up the relative per mbps costs. Then there are companies like Airtel who have been trying to increase internet costs, rather than work towards reducing them. Due to all this penetration has been low (in terms of people we have more but the reach is very limited) - ranked 164:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users
India is ranked 62nd even behind even Pakistan in terms of "relative value of broadband":
http://www.netindex.com/value/allcountries/
Instead of trying to improve the broadband infrastructure and lowering barrier entry costs, we have tons of scams related to telecom. That again pulls up the relative per mbps costs. Then there are companies like Airtel who have been trying to increase internet costs, rather than work towards reducing them. Due to all this penetration has been low (in terms of people we have more but the reach is very limited) - ranked 164:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users
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