Modi asks: Why didn’t a Google happen out of India

dpandey said:
What innovation has come out of china lately? I wonder why we have such a low opinion of ourselves.
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More than you can count and in more areas than you can count.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ceibs/2014/09/19/chinas-many-types-of-innovation/

Chinese currently control the entire world. It is their innovations in processes and products that make all kinds of things affordable and accessible to the world at large.

You cannot have a tube light or fan running in your house without it having parts made in china. Almost every house hold appliance including the gas stove that gets used in Indian Kitchens come from china. The PC, tablet or phone from which you made your comment is full of parts made in china. You can afford it because china made it affordable.

And yeah, If anything most Indians tend to be braggarts who have a too high opinion of themselves and the state of the country without having any substance to back that nor the will to reach that place. Empty talk is that politicians and people do in India.

You must know and accept your current place before you can grasp where you want to reach and put the necessary effort. That is the bare minimal requirement to even make an attempt to succeed. But our people have only their heads so clouded already with all the bragging about some past glory that they fail to see how far below they stand on the ladder and how high they need to climb to reach such lofty goals

The difference between us our others who are succeeding is exactly that. Underestimating ourselves is not the problem. Arrogance and self overestimation is our problem. We don't try to see nor accept where we are currently and chalk out a path to where we want to go. The very fact that our talent goes to other countries and work wonders under foreign leadership is proof of this.
 
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Lord Nemesis said:
More than you can count and in more areas than you can count.
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^^^
I can't open the Forbes site so am not sure what is in there.

If you are talking about low cost manufacturing, the chinese have done a pretty good job. The Japanese had done it before them (Lets also not forget the govt hands in the success of both the countries. China's artificial devaluation of its currency and Japanese predatory business practices helped along the way. But they succeeded and full marks to them).

But there is another picture. I am sitting in my living room with lots of appliances around me. 80% of it was manufactured in china. 0% of it was invented there. Maybe 100s years later most of the new inventions will come out of china, but for now it doesn't happen.

As for the things you mentioned:

Tube light: Invented by americans
Fan: Electric motor was based on Europeans/Amercians
Gas Stove: Europeans
PC/tablet: Developed almost completely in America.


Lord Nemesis said:
Chinese currently control the entire world
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Lets avoid hyperboles. If you have already concluded than Indians cannot compete, good for you. Will save you a lot of effort in life.
 
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Lord Nemesis said:
You must know and accept your current place ... with all the bragging about some past glory that they fail to see how far below ...
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I am assuming you are young. It is extremely important for a society to control the narrative of its history. Every society must write its history in a way that makes it look good. Otherwise, you do not survive.

Case in point, Jews wouldn't have survived 1000 years in European ghettos if they accepted 'reality', which was quite bleak. But they kept lying to themselves that they are G-d's chosen people and they will not assimilate. Romas, who had no such narrative to support them, withered away.

You will be surprised at how much effort countries put in making their past look better. Just watch the American history channels or read about how Americans have written the WW2 history. At least one British writer (Niall Fergusan) is trying to make it look like colonialism was good for the colonies and a burden for the British.

China has made an industry out of lying about its history and used the narrative to gobble up Tibet and now South China Sea. Chinese are taught about their 'ancient greatness' and how the west has stolen their ideas. It just makes copying western technology a little easier on the conscience.

I can give a lot more examples to support my point, but a bulletin board is probably not the right place.

As George Orwell said, "He who control the past controls the future ..."
 
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dpandey said:
It is extremely important for a society to control the narrative of its history. Every society must write its history in a way that makes it look good. Otherwise, you do not survive.
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You are *very* wrong when you said that. history *ought* to be unbiased and should not glorify anything. it should be unbiased and fact based. living in denial doesnt achive anything. As some one said "History is written by victors" and it is very important to document the other side of the story too. So when George Orwell said what he said, he meant people/historians/politicians to to exactly the opposite. that is not to control the past. otherwise, next generation will never learn the mistakes/blunders that the older generation committed.
 
dpandey said:
^^^

As for the things you mentioned:

Tube light: Invented by americans
Fan: Electric motor was based on Europeans/Amercians
Gas Stove: Europeans
PC/tablet: Developed almost completely in America.
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Invention is when you make something new for the first time. The outcome is a product that only exists in labs often without practical usability or even when it goes commercial, it would be so costly that its unaffordable for most. Innovations are ideas that incrementally or radically change the way we do things that improve processes or products.

Chinese are innovators. They may not always make the first iteration of a product, but it is them that bring constant innovative solutions to solve the practical challenges of cost, volumes, scale, processes and enable the vast majority of the population to use the products. Anybody who thinks their manufacturing prowess is just because of cheap labour are gravely mistaken. Chinese companies and the their Govt makes a lot of investment of time and money towards this sort of innovation. They understand the importance and put the required effort.

Lets avoid hyperboles. If you have already concluded than Indians cannot compete, good for you. Will save you a lot of effort in life.
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As I said before, its simply not a problem of capability or talent. There is no dearth of talent. But we also have a lot of people who are full of themselves. Till Indians stop bragging about self assumed past glory , open their eyes, see where they are, accept that they are nowhere near where they need to be and formulate plans to get where they want to go, we will not be able to compete with anybody. Introspection is important. but it should also yield answers that are useful for planning for the future. It should not again be an exercise of creating lies overrating ourselves and blaming others for our own failures.

dpandey said:
It is extremely important for a society to control the narrative of its history. Every society must write its history in a way that makes it look good. Otherwise, you do not survive.
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See, that is exactly why I say our country lags despite having potential. People love to create false glory out of their past and continue to dwell in it. How pathetic is a society that spends its time making their past look good and keep revelling that self proclaimed glory. People who keep dwelling in the past cannot have an outlook or plan for the future. Such people turn into mindless drones who have no aspirations for the future and will eventually destined to perish in the fight for survival.

The only thing people should carry from the past is experiences/wisdom of those who came before us and that will help us with the future, not false pride and arrogance over the personal accomplishments of people with whom you have no bloody relationship other than that you were coincidentally born in the same country.
 
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Lord Nemesis said:
How pathetic is a society that spends its time making their past look good and keep revelling that self proclaimed glory.
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You probably did not read my post. This expression exactly fits the Jews of europe who lived in ghettos but kept the narrative of their superiority alive for over a thousand years. They kept telling themselves that they are God's chosen people, better than the rest of europeans, yet had nothing to show for it.

Would you call Jews, the most successful ethnic group of the last century, pathetic?

If you read my post again, I have mentioned more cases of countries re-inventing a past and using it to their advantage.

If anything, I would say we Indians should spend more effort writing history from 'our' point of view. It is quite unfortunate that foreign historians have written better accounts of India's past (Basham, Meuller, Zimmer) than Indians themselves.
 
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blkrb0t said:
You are quoting 1984 to make the exact opposite point made by George Orwell in that book?
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Please elaborate. As far as I remember, he was critical of the rulers using history as a tool of power, not the ability of history to change the course of the future.

However, it has been a long time since I read it and am willing to eat my world.

I have even mentioned examples in my previous posts of how societies use (imagined) history to their advantage.
 
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blkrb0t said:
Modi's just grandstanding. A Google in India? Seriously.
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The venue and the audience to whom that rhetorical question was posed to means he is asking them how he can help.

It's a serious question and its good to hear a leader wonder aloud like that. Doing his best to inspire, like Kalam.
 
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dpandey said:
I am assuming you are young. It is extremely important for a society to control the narrative of its history. Every society must write its history in a way that makes it look good. Otherwise, you do not survive.
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Whaaa... brb, checking history books in Germany. Hope they've managed to make regime of SS look good.
 
dpandey said:
Please elaborate. As far as I remember, he was critical of the rulers using history as a tool of power, not the ability of history to change the course of the future. But it has been a long time since I read it and am willing to eat my world.
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“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” - George Orwell
Propaganda and rewriting history were a major part of George Orwell's Animal Farm and 1984. He was critical of it in all his works. Read his reports on the Spanish civil war too. You'll understand his satire (or the dystopian reckonings) much better.
I have even mentioned examples in my previous posts of how societies use (imagined) history to their advantage.
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And how do you know that history is imagined? Because you're aware of other historical accounts too, which are much more reliable than any religious propaganda put up, by Jews or otherwise. You're using that same knowledge to argue against it.
 
^^^

Your post only supports my position. I am only saying that the history that a society accepts for itself can mean the difference between survival and ruin.

My position is amoral. Orwell may have been critical of historical rewriting, but did he ever deny its effectiveness?
 
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I used to think about the same question until I joined MS program in US. Modi should take up one course and attend a US university to get answer to his question.

Indian engineering colleges suck dogs ass. I have done BE from top 5 engg colleges of Bangalore and half decent US University (nowhere near Ivy league), so I'm not comparing best of US to worst of India.

In my opinion these are some of the reasons why see no Google from India:
1. EXTREMELY poor internet penetration. Enough said about it. You can't build an internet company without internet.
2. In India (talking specifically in terms of Engineering), students are always busy with assignments (which are of no value), 7-8hrs per day classes..etc. Basically we are always busy with something which gives student a false impression that they are working towards something. Its like running on a treadmill. We will be running, but don't realize that we are in the same place!
3. Our engineering colleges are more of placement centers. They only focus on placing maximum number of students in TCS/Infosys, etc., by concentrating more on interview questions than showing any passion in imparting the real engineering skills. None of my professor mentioned 'job' word anytime during 2 years of my MS degree. They just focus on teaching the concept in depth. Its amazing how passionate they were about their fields.
4. Most of the faculty have no passion (for anything). Unless the faculty is passionate, students can't be motivated.
 
dpandey said:
I have even mentioned examples in my previous posts of how societies use (imagined) history to their advantage.
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You're referring to national myths. many countries have them.

dpandey said:
I am only saying that the history that a society accepts for itself can mean the difference between survival and ruin.
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history is a lot more than a myth though.

Its real simple build your house on solid ground.
 
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