New Sound card or New speakers?

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So in continuation to what you say I agree that all music is stereo so we should only listen it as stereo..........................that's where I start differing from others.

ok

I have 11 yrs old 4.1 creative soundworks speakers attached to new creative audigy value sound card which only play all my music & is connected to my new system, were as old computer has live value! sound card now connected with creative T3030 2.1 speakers. The new speakers are under testing & i play both movies & music with them.

This is the interesting bit.

Is the 4.1 cambridge soundworks + audigy equivalent to the live! + creative T3030 2.1 (costwise) ?

If they are in a similar category then what you're saying contradicts greenie. He thinks the difference would not be much and certainly not to the point where one would go in for this system to upgrade from the 2.1.

But if the soundworks + audigy is in a higher cost bracket then it might explain why you think the 4.1 sounds better than the 2.1. The speakers+SC combo themselves are better than those of the 2.1

Its harder to square what you said about adjusting the 4.1 speakers so that they sound good compared to a better quality 2.1. Yes they will be more sound but its just more immersive, the quality of the sound hasn't improved rather just the quantity.

Understand that i'm talking just for audio purposes only. If you wanted the other two options games+movies then compromises have to be made if cost is to be kept similar. You are getting more components than a 2.1 after all. Therefore you implicitly accept lower quality sound than you could have got with more specialised equipment for the freedom of more apps.

 

[sarang]

@ranjan2001: At the cost of sounding rude, may I ask if you've ever had a chance to listen to a "decent" stereo setup? Even for a PC based solution, do you really believe the experience of a Audigy Value, and SB Live! with the Soundworks, and T3030 is sufficient to comment blatantly that

"Surround is for every kind of music which you want to surround yourself with, sure it specifically sounds better when you have 5.1 movies & games bcoz they use specific channels for sound separations."

Kindly educate yourself or feel free to ask around before passing blanket statements like that.

 

[strategy]

considering that you are mostly in to Music(...read songs
2.1 speakers are best fo you and with MX5021 you wont be compromising ....
if you go for a 5.1 speaker set you simply will have to upgrade in future ...just as the case with your SBS

More over speakers dont really improve much with time so dont AL to roll out a better speaker set for the same price in near future ....wiile you sound cards get replace every year....so go with speakers

 

[Anubis]

nobody denies that 5.1 by itself is bad. all things being equal, a 5.1 setup can sound as good as, probably better than a stereo setup.

So why are we recommending stereo speakers over surround ?

cost

for any given cost, a pair of stereo speakers will beat the living daylights out of any surround speakers of the same cost as far as sound quality is concerned.

To use a car analogy, a ferrari might be better than a 'busa. but at 15L, a busa makes more sense than a civic

Well said.

ok

This is the interesting bit.

Is the 4.1 cambridge soundworks + audigy equivalent to the live! + creative T3030 2.1 (costwise) ?

If they are in a similar category then what you're saying contradicts greenie. He thinks the difference would not be much and certainly not to the point where one would go in for this system to upgrade from the 2.1.

But if the soundworks + audigy is in a higher cost bracket then it might explain why you think the 4.1 sounds better than the 2.1. The speakers+SC combo themselves are better than those of the 2.1

Its harder to square what you said about adjusting the 4.1 speakers so that they sound good compared to a better quality 2.1. Yes they will be more sound but its just more immersive, the quality of the sound hasn't improved rather just the quantity.

Understand that i'm talking just for audio purposes only. If you wanted the other two options games+movies then compromises have to be made if cost is to be kept similar. You are getting more components than a 2.1 after all. Therefore you implicitly accept lower quality sound than you could have got with more specialised equipment for the freedom of more apps.

@ranjan2001: At the cost of sounding rude, may I ask if you've ever had a chance to listen to a "decent" stereo setup? Even for a PC based solution, do you really believe the experience of a Audigy Value, and SB Live! with the Soundworks, and T3030 is sufficient to comment blatantly that

Kindly educate yourself or feel free to ask around before passing blanket statements like that.

Guys Guys , please lets not start a warzone here. It was a peaceful thread and let us keep that atmosphere and surrounding .

What will the OP think when he visits his thread again ?

He'll find landmines had been laid , some have blown , some are remaining to be triggered and continuous shower of bullets is going on everywhere

Lets just finish this here

No doubt about the fact that Altec Lansing MX5021 is unbeatable 2.1 speakers that'll give good 5.1 speakers a run for their money

But since the OP desires specifically a 5.1 surround system in 5k budget , so I suggested Logitech x540

 

[blr_p]

Guys Guys , please lets not start a warzone here. It was a peaceful thread and let us keep that atmosphere and surrounding .

What will the OP think when he visits his thread again ?

He'll find landmines had been laid , some have blown , some are remaining to be triggered and continuous shower of bullets is going on everywhere

Lets just finish this here

What warzone ?

We're all adults and this is just a healthy debate with no mud slinging at all. As is wont for ppl that frequent this forum who like to squeeze every bit of performance out of any gear they get and at the same time get the best bang for the buck.

There is something to learn here and I hope ranjan does reply when ready to do so.

But since the OP desires specifically a 5.1 surround system in 5k budget , so I suggested Logitech x540

OP is free to do what he chooses with his money

This is for others that stumble onto this thread in the future.

 

[Gannu]

LOL quite a nice debate going on!

Music sounds the best on stereo speakers since they are recorded using 2 independent sound channels. No matter what Cambridge Soundworks 4.1 or Intex 7.1 is plugged to any sound card, it'd only sound worse lol.

 

[greenhorn]

another point is that its hard enough positioning two speakers most of us choose to live with a compromise, or are still in search of that perfect spot . Doing that with 6 is a few magnitudes harder. its not like you can simply plonk six speakers around the room and have an immersive experience out of the box.

At least with two speakers you stand a chance. with 6 speakers placed at arbitrary locations, you will just be getting sound from all around you. not 'surround'

 

[blr_p]

another point is that its hard enough positioning two speakers most of us choose to live with a compromise, or are still in search of that perfect spot . Doing that with 6 is a few magnitudes harder. its not like you can simply plonk six speakers around the room and have an immersive experience out of the box.

Have you experimented yet with software+mic that tries to correct this situation ?

At least with two speakers you stand a chance. with 6 speakers placed at arbitrary locations, you will just be getting sound from all around you. not 'surround'

Ranjan's point was you could manually adjust the sound of each speaker till it sounded right.

But there is no surround here at all is there, with stereo music. There is no surround even with earphones. Why else are they introducing 5.1 earphones, ones that have little speakers that can mimic the effect. Tho from what i've read impression seems to be these 'surround' earphones are just a gimmick.

So its just about immersion. Is more quantity better than quality

Would one get tired of the 'immersion' and instead crave for more quality. The empircial evidence indicates the latter is true, all the time ppl trying to get 'better' sound but do not see as many trying to get 'more' sound.

 

[greenhorn]

Have you experimented yet with software+mic that tries to correct this situation ?

Not at home, but have heard an imprinted alpine car setup. was quite nice!

but that was also a stereo setup

 

[blr_p]

Thought i'd stir this thread up a bit since it seems to have fallen asleep :devil2:

A Stereophile interview with Jim Fosgate of Dolby Pro logic fame or the more familiar 'surround sound'.

Guttenberg: PLII can work its magic on LPs and CDs?

Fosgate: Yes. Please understand that PLII doesn't affect the stereo soundstage, other than to display the in-phase part of the program over the three front channels—the out-of-phase or randomly phased signals are sent to the rear. When switching between stereo and PLII, you'll see that the stereo soundstage stays intact but has greater depth and width. Sometimes you're not even aware of the extra speakers, until you turn them off and the soundstage collapses back to stereo.

Guttenberg: It's more than a little ironic—your invention has made you a wealthy man, but you created this home-theater processor with music in mind. Literally.

Fosgate: I do most of my surround work listening to stereo music—movies no more than 2% or 3% of the time. During my 25 years of work on these circuits, I can say with all honesty that most of the listening was done using vinyl program material. I couldn't see why a circuit couldn't work equally well with music or home theater. I consider Dolby the experts on movies, and they're quite satisfied with the way PLII sounds with movies.

Guttenberg: Can PLII break on through to the two-channel faithful?

Fosgate: In real life, we're used to hearing in a 360º sphere from all around us. Stereo is unnatural in that it is coming only from the front speakers. With my triamped, all-tube system, stereo sounds very, very good—it's what great stereo is all about—but when I switch from stereo to multichannel, there's no comparison. It's not that one is so aware of the back channels, but PLII makes the front soundstage wider and deeper. Some of my guests aren't aware of the rear speakers' contributions until I turn them off.

Guttenberg: But audiophiles associate multichannel with a mid-fi mindset. They have a hard time accepting that multichannel can be built to the same standards as the best two-channel gear.

Fosgate: That's true, and if I had to decide between a great two-channel audio system and a frumpy home-theater thing, well, sure, I'd go with the stereo. I know a lot of Stereophile readers think stereo is perfect, but I'd hope they can be open-minded and listen to what we can generate with a no-compromise, all-tube surround processor like my Fosgate Audionics FAP-V1. If you can take all the things we've learned about building a great system and carry that into surround, it's no contest. That's exactly why I designed the FAP-V1 for music lovers—but it can also play movies.

So there you have it, Surround wins if you got a FAP-V1 otherwise stick with stereo

 

[ranjan2001]

Music sounds the best on stereo speakers since they are recorded using 2 independent sound channels.

I want to agree to this statement but my ears don't let me agree to this.

another point is that its hard enough positioning two speakers most of us choose to live with a compromise, or are still in search of that perfect spot . Doing that with 6 is a few magnitudes harder. its not like you can simply plonk six speakers around the room and have an immersive experience out of the box.

You are right in my last 3 month of experimentation with 2.1 vs 4.1 I found that I cant just get the 2.1 configure properly where as 4.1 sound card driver offers me to adjust front & rear speakers separation as per my sitting position in the room, further it also lets me tweak each speaker which is not available in 2.1 settings

At least with two speakers you stand a chance. with 6 speakers placed at arbitrary locations, '

You are not suppose to put those speakers in arbitrary locations, they have to be in specific position to sound right to you.

you will just be getting sound from all around you. not 'surround

Isn't surround is sound from all around you 360°? cant understand what you mean to say here.

So its just about immersion. Is more quantity better than quality
Would one get tired of the 'immersion' and instead crave for more quality. The empircial evidence indicates the latter is true, all the time ppl trying to get 'better' sound but do not see as many trying to get 'more' sound.

To me its the quality for sure over quantity, but i guess that you are referring immersion as quantity (more speakers) whereas "if configured correctly" they are quality to me not quantity.
my 2.1 have strong boomy bass & I don't go above 4 (scale 1-10) on those speakers, they are loud & after a while sound becomes unbearable & I have to turn down the volume, where as 4.1 sound pleasing & clear channel separation on higher volume, the bass is no way near the 2.1 though.

 

[corelement]

new speakers will make 100% more difference than new soundcard.

 

[nikrusty]

U specifically said, "I want good music". Good 2.1 is your best bet. I would increase the budget for speakers for Altec Lansing MX5021, seriously nice! Forget about sound card for now. Most onboard sound cards are just fine, though of course buying a creative or whatever discrete soundcard, you will be able to make out the difference but not with crappy speakers. So speakers first! then Sound card second!

Don't even look at the silliness of 5.1 speakers "For effects". Really that's all nonsense. Yes it does make a different sound but NOT better. Music is always recorded as 2 channel (left and right). This can change if the original sound recorded is in actual 5.1 format, like certain 5.1 DVD orchestra specials. That is expensive!

But if all that you are listening to Mp3's my dear, the forget about gimmicks, stick with pure 2.0 or better 2.1 for better bass as u mentioned.