Organic Farming

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Certification of organic food is akin to scam, increases cost to impractical level.

You can do your own certification if you can visit the farms and see how they grow their produce.

This can only work if those farms are local and the farmers are willing. If they want to differentiate their products then they will be most willing to show people why their produce is better than the conventional.

Keep in mind you get the most nutrients if you consume the veg raw. Once its cooked you lose the enzymes. At that point i can't see much difference between organic or not. Vitamins & minerals will still be there. At least those that are not heat sensitive.

Guess what we feed animals with. All raw, discarded veg skins that have the most nutrients. The skin has more nutrients than the vegetable or fruit it came from. I'm sure animals eat better than we do

There is a table called Aggregate Nutrient Density Index (ANDI). Greens top the list.

Need an Indian version of that table. Not found one yet.

 

[iPwnz]

You can do your own certification if you can visit the farms and see how they grow their produce.

How? That won't even be recognized by the govt if they need the license.

 

[rdst_1]

All those people who believe that organic farming has no benefit, need to just Google 'Roundup' and then comment back in this thread. And also tell if they have ever grown and consumed something on their own.
As to whether it can feed all humans is a separate topic and my personal opinion is that earth's resources are finite and hence our unsustainable population will decrease one way or other i.e. either we make a conscious effort to reduce both our population and our consumption or nature will do it for us.
I don't use it, but I don't mind others using inorganic fertilizers to grow crops (only if they do it properly by only adding the difference after soil testing) but use of pesticides, weedicides, etc is a complete no for me. We use mulching and do manual weeding instead of using weedicides and for dealing with pests we use natural methods and even innovate simple new ways. For example, I was facing difficulty in dealing with fruit flies, so I just covered the veggies in the bags that shopkeepers give us. Since then I haven't had any issues with fruit flies. The only trick is to get to the fruit/veggies before the fruit fly does.

 

[iPwnz]

All those people who believe that organic farming has no benefit, need to just Google 'Roundup'

Is this herbicide good or bad? Reading the wiki it seems to very controversial.

 

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How? That won't even be recognized by the govt if they need the license.

I mean check on your own and see how they grow things. Talk to them.

This assumes you know what organic and not organic is and can identify it when you see it.

 

[TinTinSnowy]

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read online. Even if you don't believe in organic farming you can just create your own farm without using any "-'sides" and that'd be organic! So I honestly don't know if you are just ignorant or misinformed.

I get what you are saying. But I still don't see the benefits of organic farming. Yield is lower than farming with pesticides (lower yield is bad for the environment), it's more costly than normal produce and there is no peer reviewed study published in any decent journal claiming/showing that organic farm produce is healthier.

 

[rdst_1]

Is this herbicide good or bad? Reading the wiki it seems to very controversial.

I get what you are saying. But I still don't see the benefits of organic farming. Yield is lower than farming with pesticides (lower yield is bad for the environment), it's more costly than normal produce and there is no peer reviewed study published in any decent journal claiming/showing that organic farm produce is healthier.

Like I said, go and read about Roundup.
Bayer, who acquired Monsanto, have already agreed to pay the thousands of claimants 11 billion dollars. The Roundup case first came into light, when a whistleblower provided evidence that Monsanto knew about the carcinogen properties of their Glyphosate based herbicide Roundup and they still launched the product. It has been in circulation for decades now and one of the most popular herbicides in the world and hence the high number of cases against it.
With more and more cases coming up against them, apparently they have filed an appeal in Supreme Court. Bayer, which already set aside more than $11 billion to resolve Roundup suits, is prepared to add another $4.5 billion to its reserve if the Supreme Court refuses to review a $25 million award to a California plaintiff.


@TinTinSnowy - How are you not worried about pesticides/weedicides causing cancer to you? FYI, Glyphosate traces have already made their way into mother's milk. Also, how is lower yield bad for the environment, as you have pointed out.
Also, India produces way more food and again wastes a lot of food as well than it actually needs. The govt doesn't have enough godowns to store this excess food and it gets eaten by rats and rots outside in the rain. Just visit any FCI godown and see it for yourself.
Lastly, soil is much more than just a mixture of chemicals. More and more studies are showing the importance of the micro-biology of the soil. Practising agriculture and growing food is not akin to other businesses where production is just a number on a spreadsheet and can be increased as and when required. It is a lot more intricate and nuanced subject and there is a limit to sustainably using soil as a resource. Excess of everything is bad, is a known fact and that's what we have been doing when it comes to agriculture. Excess use of pesticides leads to pesticide resistance but more importantly, it leads to concentrations increasing in our bodies, causing cancers. Similarly, excess use of fertilizers leads to instability in the soil chemistry, which leads to soil losing natural fertility and every single time an increase in fertilizer inputs is required. Even today, fertilizer inputs are mainly restricted to NPK whereas it has been found that the number of macro and micro nutrients used by both plants and animals is much higher. And also just relying on nutrients and not worrying about the carbon content of the soil is another big problem. Adding carbon to the soil, not only helps in carbon sequestering, but also increases the water holding capacity of the soil meaning that rain fed agriculture works better on soils with higher carbon content and hence helps saving very precious ground water sources.

 

[rakeshgupta]

Off-topic, there is no benefit of organic farming.

First, ensure that you have seeds that are non-hybrid or GMOs as they might be dependent on certain chemical inputs. Still desi seed varieties are available in Indian market. If you are starting organic farming on a field with past chemical history, you need to work alongside for reviving the soil health and it can take some 2-3 years. You also need to control other factors like polluted water / air flowing into your farm from neighbours using chemicals. Keep soil healthy with the help of organic materials. Efficiently plan to sustain with available Soil, Water, Sun and Wind.

 

[TEUser2K1]

Artificial fertilizers, pesticides, weedicides, etc. are a several billion dollar industries controlled by big multinationals, which are supported by patents, royalties, etc. Powerful countries can and will exploit geopolitical, macro economical strength of other countries with it.
So, whatever dangerous bad effects those chemicals have, will not be properly exposed ever.

For eg., https://theintercept.com/2015/08/20/teflon-toxin-dupont-slipped-past-epa/

 

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Artificial fertilizers, pesticides, weedicides, etc. are a several billion dollar industries controlled by big multinationals, which are supported by patents, royalties, etc. Powerful countries can and will exploit geopolitical, macro economical strength of other countries with it.
So, whatever dangerous bad effects those chemicals have, will not be properly exposed ever.

For eg., https://theintercept.com/2015/08/20/teflon-toxin-dupont-slipped-past-epa/

Your link shows that powerful corporations can get away with things even in the US let alone the world.

 

[TinTinSnowy]

@rdst_1 What is the proof of them being carcinogenic? For example - Glyphosate have been confirmed to be safe to be used as per EU, EPA & WHO. DNA corruption and replication may happen on it's own without even getting exposed to any such stuff and the chances/probability increases as we age as the number of occurrences increases.

Environmental activists keep targeting things to stay relevant as it's their business. How to believe something unless it's strongly proven (correlation does not imply causation) via peer reviewed research reports?

Edit:

If you are so worried about DNA corruption then you might need to stop eating & drinking most of the stuff. Coffee, carrots, apple, potato, etc all have various "probable carcinogenic" chemicals in them. I will like to quote some snippets from an interesting interview with the inventor of the Ames test, a system for easily and cheaply testing the mutagenicity of compounds.

https://reason.com/1994/11/01/of-mice-and-men-2/

Of course, almost all the world is natural chemicals, so it really makes you rethink everything. A cup of coffee is filled with chemicals. They've identified a thousand chemicals in a cup of coffee. But we only found 22 that have been tested in animal cancer tests out of this thousand. And of those, 17 are carcinogens. There are 10 milligrams of known carcinogens in a cup of coffee and that's more carcinogens than you're likely to get from pesticide residues for a year!

Stuff's toxic, man. Unlike carrots- which have the nerve toxin carotoxin. And the cyanogenic glycosides of apples, plums, cherries, almonds, cassava, lima beans. Or the tomatine of tomatoes- another nerve toxin. Don't eat the greened potato chips (or potatoes, for that matter) or the solanine (another nerve toxin) will get you. Or peanuts and peanut butter (particularly the organic stuff) because of the aflatoxin. Used to be one tablespoon of the stuff had the same carcinogenic capacity as a cigarette until they improved storage standards. And then there's chlorogenic acid, found in coffee, which causes chromosomal damage. And the safrole and hydrazines, found in mushrooms. Sterculic acid (found in okra) is not your friend, nor are the isothiocyanates, gossypol, or divicine that go along with it. How about benzpyrene, a carcinogen in broccoli? And then there's canavanine (a toxic structural mimic of arginine found in alfalfa sprouts), mustard oil (accompanied by sanguinarine which causes severe edema), lectins and hemagglutinins that cause red blood cell destruction found in legumes, wheat, barley, and rye. Or the hallucinogen myristicin found in dill, parsley, and nutmeg. Or for those that think fried fern fiddleheads are safe- how about ptaquiloside, which causes leukopenia, thrombocytopenia, and hemolysis- on top of being a carcinogen? Your cucumbers need a warning label: cucurbitacin, a nerve toxin. Your chocolate needs federal regulation as the theobromine causes sterility. Your onions will lyse your chromosomes from the sinigrin. All that soy milk and unfermented soy is rich in the cryptoestrogens genestein and daidzein. Your cabbage and cruciferous vegetables are rich in goitrin, a great venue to hypothyroidism. Grains like corn and rice, along with spinach, are rich in phytic acid, which chelates iron and zinc, stripping it from your food and depriving your body. Broad beans have vicine (a hemolytic) and chaconine (a neurotoxin). Legumes like chick peas have beta--N-oxalylamino-L-alanine, a lathyrogenic compound. Lichees have l-alpha-amino-beta-[methylenecyclopropyl]propionic acid, which causes hypoglycemia. Or the photocarcinogen psoralen, in celery, parsnips, and parsley. Or the pyrrolizidines, quercetin, and quinones of comfrey.

 

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https://reason.com/1994/11/01/of-mice-and-men-2/

Interesting read

The best way to prevent cancer, Ames now believes, is to "eat your veggies." Any government action that makes fruits and vegetables more expensive ultimately causes cancer.

Don't eat your veg. Drink you veg.

Eat fruits instead of drinking them.

 

[rakeshgupta]

When in confusion between Organic/Natural Farming vs Chemical farming, one need to read experiences of Masanobu Fukuoka and Albert Howard. There are many text/content available in ancient Vedas too but Masanobu Fukuoka and Albert Howard are easily graspable.

 

[rdst_1]

@rdst_1 What is the proof of them being carcinogenic? For example - Glyphosate have been confirmed to be safe to be used as per EU, EPA & WHO. DNA corruption and replication may happen on it's own without even getting exposed to any such stuff and the chances/probability increases as we age as the number of occurrences increases.

Environmental activists keep targeting things to stay relevant as it's their business. How to believe something unless it's strongly proven (correlation does not imply causation) via peer reviewed research reports?

Edit:

If you are so worried about DNA corruption then you might need to stop eating & drinking most of the stuff. Coffee, carrots, apple, potato, etc all have various "probable carcinogenic" chemicals in them. I will like to quote some snippets from an interesting interview with the inventor of the Ames test, a system for easily and cheaply testing the mutagenicity of compounds.

https://reason.com/1994/11/01/of-mice-and-men-2/

In case of Glyphosate, it was Monsanto's own research that showed it was carcinogenic. That report is what the whistleblower revealed.

As for your point about our everyday food items containing carcinogenic elements - the difference is that our years of use of them has shown that they have limited effect on us. The problem with most pesticides and why we are seeing more pesticide residue in food and eventually humans is because we overuse and abuse the pesticides/herbicides. The amount that is considered safe according to tests is not what farmers end up using. No one follows the standards as using them in prescribed amounts doesn't lead to satisfactory results in most cases. So the local dealer suggests their own doses and then farmers end up using even higher doses.

For example, using Glyphosate as a herbicide to eliminate weeds is a whole process which has to be followed which includes spraying at specific time and following up until weeds are eliminated and all this should ideally be done before planting the main crop and then steps should be taken to ensure that weeds don't come back. But no one follows the system and they spray Glyphosate as and when they feel like. And this is true for other pesticides as well.