Partition of India

[Lord Nemesis]

Doesn't make a bit of a difference. People are the same here as in Pakistan. Those who think that Indians or as some seemed to imply Hindu's are any different than them is under a misconception.

There would be a few more states, but violence would be same. It has nothing to do with the religion of the people or anything else, its just the nature of the people here. (Maharashtra's incidents are a prime example), We always find some pretext to fight and hurt other people.

The only thing is that our leaders don't be able to blame every damn thing on Pakistan or terrorism.

As someone says we are like crabs in a bucket. When one tries to escape, the others pull it down. How can be ever develop with that sort of situation.

 

[blr_p]

As someone says we are like crabs in a bucket. When one tries to escape, the others pull it down. How can be ever develop with that sort of situation.

Implication being either all in the country progress or no one.

Has that ever been the reality tho

 

[HailStonE]

Doesn't make a bit of a difference. People are the same here as in Pakistan. Those who think that Indians or as some seemed to imply Hindu's are any different than them is under a misconception.

There would be a few more states, but violence would be same. It has nothing to do with the religion of the people or anything else, its just the nature of the people here. (Maharashtra's incidents are a prime example), We always find some pretext to fight and hurt other people.

The only thing is that our leaders don't be able to blame every damn thing on Pakistan or terrorism.

As someone says we are like crabs in a bucket. When one tries to escape, the others pull it down. How can be ever develop with that sort of situation.

Most thoughtful post. yet... I agree.. nothing would have changed... there would still be terrorism & there would still be problems...

We should let go of the illusion that everything would would have been all right if such & such thing had not happened.... There is no such thing as absolute society with no problems....

 

[l33t_5n1p3r_max]

Doesn't make a bit of a difference. People are the same here as in Pakistan. Those who think that Indians or as some seemed to imply Hindu's are any different than them is under a misconception.

Yes, we all know of hindu suicide bombers, hindu mujaheddin. Look, the middle class of muslims are just like us, willing to get on with their lives. Its the lower class, the ones who flock to deobandi madrassas that deserve to be kept in check. When was the last time VHP/RSS used RDX or semtex?

It has nothing to do with the religion of the people or anything else,

It has everything to do with religion. Why are muslims even behind the so called OBC's and SC/ST's when it comes to education, literacy, income?

Maharashtra's incidents are a prime example

And the MNS seeking to send away some beharis can be compared with Chechnya, palestine, Kashmir, Lebanon, Iraq? The MNS are fools of the highest order and deserve to be shot in the head but even they are not as bad as the mujaheddin.

You will not understand this, you're too secular. You've been brought up on western ideals of liberalism and freedom, ideals that do not necessarily work in a third world, developing country. Its all well and good when your neighbour also follows those ideals. When your neighbor is out to get you just because you're from a different religion, its time to chuck those ideals and get the chainsaw out.

Do you know why they're fighting over KAshmir? Because its part of the ummah. Majority of its population is muslim. Nepal has a pre dominantly hindu population, do you see VHP or RSS sponsoring separatist movements in Nepal? We're too soft for our own good.

 

[HailStonE]

Yes, we all know of hindu suicide bombers, hindu mujaheddin. Look, the middle class of muslims are just like us, willing to get on with their lives. Its the lower class, the ones who flock to deobandi madrassas that deserve to be kept in check. When was the last time VHP/RSS used RDX or semtex?

There is a point there which tells the bigger picture... how we perceive the current situation or are we just believing what everybody does... Point of note is Naxalites.... They also kill people, bomb & massacre innocent population but we don't label them with any religion... You yourself pointed it out they are from the poor economic background...

Terrorism has many meanings & its not always propagated with a gun... mind it...

It has everything to do with religion. Why are muslims even behind the so called OBC's and SC/ST's when it comes to education, literacy, income?

One word RESERVATIONS... If you take a deeper look its only one community who is actually benefiting from the policy of reservations... Reservations itself is a hindrance for our country to progress... its a short-cut devised by the govt. which failed to provide education & social uplifting at grass root level...

 

[l33t_5n1p3r_max]

Muslims were always better off than the SC/ST community. Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh already have reservations for muslims, what changed? You can also say that the well off, intelligent muslims migrated to Pakistan, but that does'nt change the facts today. 60 years have passed.

Do the parsees or the jains get reservations? Why are they substantially more educated and well off than others?

You yourself pointed it out they are from the poor economic background...

Yes. And thats the problem, there are just so many of them. Regulate madrassas..shut down the ones that preach jehad. Indians have always followed a moderate version of Islam, thats why we're not making terrorists like the pakis. Fix our muslim population up before they have to resort to blowing themselves up on the words of some idiot mullah.

 

[main_trouble]

we are secular!

and we are different.

this is what separates us from all other western nations.

come on guys this is land of gandhi (generations to come would scarce believe that such a one as this ever in flesh and blood walked upon this earth- einstien)

in france they got religious tensions even if just have a 3% of muslims.

we have 7 times more muslims.(we should have a bloodbath by now)

and 98% of those muslims are ready to die for india at drop of hat(rest are brainwashed morons)

let us see the true cause of islamophobia

islam as religion tends to become more of a rulebook with clear demarcation of what is haraam and what is not haraam.

now we got those (bearded and pan chewing) mullahs acting as MONITORS who apply that rulebook on fellow muslims.

these mullah manipulate uneducated muslims(or even educated ones sometimes) by scaring them bout day of KAYAMAT and what not.

now where ever there are rules , there will always be some mischievous people who break them.

this is where FATWAS come in.

mullahs thinking that any sign of progress(or westernized progress) is unislamic pass on these stupid fatwas to public .

these stupid fatwas

(like banning intel proccys because they are designed by jewish people , or banning denmark goods due to cartoon row or banning polio drops in muslim areas of UP beacuse poli drops are a plan of bush to make all muslims boys impotent to check growth of muslims in the world)

actually push muslims further back into stone age.

when a new generation of muslims grow up they find themselves increasingly separated , distinguished from general population.

then again mullahs breed anger in them and a terrorist is born.

now to all those who are against seculars.

well my frnds , hatred and anger spreads mush more quickly than love and justice.

(thankfully) leadership of our country is much more senible than that(unlike pakistan's politics)

we never divide people.

to us a muslim abul kalam azad is most deserving of all presidents who made those prithvi missiles.

to us muhd. kaif or zaheer khan is as great a national hero as any other

to us salman khan/sharukh khan etc. films are as entertaining as amitabh bachhan's.

my frnd religion comes nowhere.

seeing all these bomb blasts would make ur blood boil(i had same affect on me earlier)

that makes u think that india shuld nuke all of pakistan/bangladesh.

then kill all "terrorists loving" muslims of india.

then?????????

we will all be happy as in india only hindus are left.

well u seen that ass@#@# called raj thakarey dividing people (like seniors thakarey did a few years ago)

as far as i know he is also a hindu.

bother , raj thakarey is a Hitler in making. he is brainwashing all the marathis that beating , driving out biharis is going to do it better for them.it is like telling a poor man to demolish his rich neighbor's house so that now his own house looks bigger.

and wat bout gujjars/meenas in rajasthan. they both are hindus. but right now they are jealous and blood thirsty of each other for reservations.

and those ass@#$# leaders of tamil nadu.

beating and destroying anything related to HINDI/north india.

it is like saying " all this poverty is due to hindi language , let us destroy /ban hindi and we shall prosper again"

nepal is a all hindu kingdom. why the hell are they having problems?

pakistan was all muslim state. why the hell it got divided into pak/bangladesh?

l33t_5n1p3r_max ,

some time ago even i used to get angry like u are now.

but isn't this what the terrorists want?

jaipur bombs at temples were clearly designed to cause hindu-muslim riot.

but thanks to good at heart people of rajasthan , that never happened.

also thank god we have not interfered in nepal.(i really say thank god)

now let us realise cause of all india's problems now.

1. china

india initially had very good relation wid china. we supported them at UN, we were among first one to make diplomatic ties wid them after their Independence.

then how the hell china ended up being biggest enemy of india and best frnd of pakistan?

let us go bak in time.

india has just become independent.

under (very able) leadership of sardar patel india is busy gobbling up princely states into indian republic(junagarh and kashmir were quiet painful)

to tell u the truth china was actually "scared of india's increase.

they were scared that nehru would also try to capture some/all of tibbet.

we all know that we had no such intentions.

but tibbet never wanted to be under china. dalai lama escaped to india.

nehru's support to dalai lama and to tibbetan cause made chinese belief stronger that india is indeed anti china.

and enemy's enemy is best frnd , so became pakistan.

2. kashmir

actually by design kashmir war never a part of india. it decided to stay independent.

jinnah pressurized junagarh to join wid pakistan.

but sardar patel was not to be underestimated. he gave argument that since majority of junagarsh is hindu , only its rulers are muslims , junagarh shud be wid india.

all right jinnah said let us apply same to kashmir , but kashmir wanted to stay independent.

feeling "cheated " pakistan attacked kashmir"under tribals names"

raja of kashmir signed papers of accession and kashmir became a part of india.

to tell u thruth , there was no militancy in kashmir prior to 1989.

it was completely peaceful

but after mujahideens work against soviets was done in afghanistan , they were diverted to kashmir.

now we got kashmiri muslims being brainwashed and helping these terrorists.

3. LITTE->

they killed rajiv gandhi in a suicide bomb blast.

well actually litte are all hindus(now who said hindus are not terrorists) who demand separate state for tamils in sri lanka.

india and litte were best of frnds, we india supported litte's cause in all internationals stages. but then rajiv signed a stupid agreement with sri lanka.

and IPKF was sent to sri lanka to fight litte.

litte felt cheated, result is for all of us to see.

thus we must never interfere in others matters, just get busy doing good for india.

bro we need to be strong and united , that is biggest defeat for pakistan and all our enemies.

we must think with cool heads.

all indians(muslims/hindus) are our bros.

PS: l33t_5n1p3r_max -> i know that a lot of hot blood is flowing through viens.

that can sometimes lead to bad decisions/anger/hatred.

believe me i was as hot blooded as u are now.

but i know that u are a true indian.

a patriot.

we need more like u

u can help india by paying taxes

not giving/taking bribes etc.

jai hind

 

[guru]

You will not understand this, you're too secular. You've been brought up on western ideals of liberalism and freedom, ideals that do not necessarily work in a third world, developing country

.I agree secularism and Liberalism has no meaning in polythiest religions Roman, Greek or Hindu. that's because they already are liberal and secular [o0ne more god from another faith isn't big deal when you already have like million or so]

Individual liberty [freedom] however is NOT a western only idea. Bose or Gandhi would disagree that freedom was western idea lol. We are probably the only major country outside West that recognizes Liberty. that doesn't mean Freedom is western.

 

[HailStonE]

Muslims were always better off than the SC/ST community. Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh already have reservations for muslims, what changed? You can also say that the well off, intelligent muslims migrated to Pakistan, but that does'nt change the facts today. 60 years have passed.

Reservations is not the answer to any problem... it can never help any community... had it been we would not be having such increases in quotas for SC/ST since Independence... So it cannot help even Muslims... About Muslims being better off than SC/ST. is a lie... and we are told to believe this lie..

Do the parsees or the jains get reservations? Why are they substantially more educated and well off than others?

The problem here is the population for both Hindu's & Muslims.. If you see the figures of Population above mentioned communities are not growing at the rate Hindus & Muslims are growing... Now I do believe you will again blame Muslims here for the rise in India's population but they are not the only one responsible....

Yes. And thats the problem, there are just so many of them. Regulate madrassas..shut down the ones that preach jehad. Indians have always followed a moderate version of Islam, thats why we're not making terrorists like the pakis. Fix our muslim population up before they have to resort to blowing themselves up on the words of some idiot mullah.

A study by the Govt of India did showed that less than 2% of Muslim children go to these Madarsas... Yes some of them might be teaching fanaticism but not all... I don't think intelligence agencies are sleeping since last 2-3 govt. & not investigating any links..... But we are made to believe that all they teach is to blow themselves in the name of God...

These terrorists are brainwashed but so are we into believing that they are doing it in the name of religion & the whole community is responsible... Just 'coz they do it like this... Whom should we believe these fanatics or more than 98% Muslims who are living peacefully....

 

[greenhorn]

any of you guys read freedom at midnight by Dominique Lapierre and Larry Collins?

has a lot of the story you guys need to know.

and this thread has started to span religion and nationality.

Nationality - Members at this forum represent countries from around the world. Political propaganda will not be tolerated. Deliberate and/or malicious "country bashing" will result in action up to and including user ban depending on severity. All posts found offending are to be reported to the respective section moderators or the staff.

 

[techie_007]

any of you guys read freedom at midnight by Dominique Lapierre and Larry Collins?

has a lot of the story you guys need to know.

and this thread has started to span religion and nationality.

Thats a good book :cool2:

In fact I like almost everything those guys wrote Fav being Jerusalem. Why? m a sucker for the story of Israels birth and the way they stood upto a helluva lot of odds to get where they are. Not that i support all that they currently do (no flaming plz). but the story of the start is great.

Also, Leon Uris: Exodus.

And yes, this is a flame war waiting to be triggered. Its happened before, it ll happen again

 

[blr_p]

Individual liberty [freedom] however is NOT a western only idea. Bose or Gandhi would disagree that freedom was western idea lol. We are probably the only major country outside West that recognizes Liberty. that doesn't mean Freedom is western.

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean here.

When we talk about freedom, one implies a bill of rights or some such document that the ruler/mgmt of said country abides with. Those rights give 'freedom' to the masses.

India before independance was ruled by foreigners and before that was a collection of princely states. So there were limitations to individual freedom from that perspective. Religous freedom has existed but i think there is more to 'freedom' than just that.

So what freedom are you referring to ?

Other than that i don't think any flame baiting has occurred (yet), its been interesting read so far, with viewpoints and the counter arguments done in a civil manner and hope it continues to be that way.

 

[guru]

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean here.

When we talk about freedom, one implies a bill of rights or some such document that the ruler/mgmt of said country abides with. Those rights give 'freedom' to the masses.

India before independance was ruled by foreigners and before that was a collection of princely states. So there were limitations to individual freedom from that perspective. Religous freedom has existed but i think there is more to 'freedom' than just that.

So what freedom are you referring to ?

I was speaking about Individual liberty - yes bill of rights that guarantee the freedoms and a govt which is "supposed" to protect those rights. Well, If you want to go back in history, then i'm referring to the Greek concept of city states with Republican form of govt. If you want look closed in history then its America, which in 19800's brought back the concept of Individual liberty back.

That was in response to l33t_5n1p3r_max's post "Freedom is a western concept and is not suitable for a third world country like us". It was kind alike saying Math is an Indian (only) concept becuase we invented numbers.There are concepts which are generic which apply to all of humanity. irrespective of who got there first. Freedom [every dimension of it] is one of those.

 

[guru]

Thats a good book :cool2:

In fact I like almost everything those guys wrote Fav being Jerusalem. Why? m a sucker for the story of Israels birth and the way they stood upto a helluva lot of odds to get where they are. Not that i support all that they currently do (no flaming plz). but the story of the start is great.

Jews probably are the single most hated/ most oppressed group since the lats 2000 years on this planet. from Ramon, Christan, Muslim massacres and persecution to the holocaust....

 

[t1ruda]

Ok!! this discussion is going places...Asking Mods to lock this one! and thanks all for the thoughts!!!

 

[Darthcoder]

^ We have a new mod??@_@ O_O