Probably got scammed. Need advise on what to do

[?dOuBtFiRe?]

I am sure that 80G certificates are phony.This is the reason why on filing your IT returns, we are required to mention the PAN no of the trust. However its easy to fake the copy too.
Back to the case, even in The Hindu, I often find such cases mentioning similar cases as ads in the main section in connection with some reputed Hospitals. Are they a scam? This is where one gets confused with genuine cases.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

No, they are not phony certificates at all. The problem is that they are all properly registered and all and so they will be able to give out genuine 80G certificates. In fact, I have come across managers and director grade people in IT companies that register trusts and NGO's so that they can donate their own money and avoid taxes.

Obviously, looking at how the whole system is being abused, I can only infer that its pretty easy to register NGO's and set up charitable trusts and also issue 80G certificates and that there are large holes for people to exploit.

Sometime back, an NGO in punjab which operates orphanages and schools for orphan girls won many awards including some award from the CM and it was later found that the NGO uses those poor minor girls who are aged between 12~15 years in a prostitution racket.

 

[Party Monger]

No, they are not phony certificates at all. The problem is that they are all properly registered and all and so they will be able to give out genuine 80G certificates. In fact, I have come across managers and director grade people in IT companies that register trusts and NGO's so that they can donate their own money and avoid taxes.

Obviously, looking at how the whole system is being abused, I can only infer that its pretty easy to register NGO's and set up charitable trusts and also issue 80G certificates and that there are large holes for people to exploit.

Sometime back, an NGO in punjab which operates orphanages and schools for orphan girls won many awards including some award from the CM and it was later found that the NGO uses those poor minor girls who are aged between 12~15 years in a prostitution racket.

Basically 10-20k in cash does the job. Even genuine people have to pay bribes of 5-10k

If i remember the commissioner has discretionary powers to give 80g clearance. You need to have established activity fro 3 years and pics as proof. I'll be registering my own NGO in a few months (one that actually works and has for around 5years, no scam )

 

[roan4231]

Really sorry to hear that but the fact is that there are really just some people who'll take whatever they can from whoever at the cost of others.

First and foremost a call for donations in this day and age is already kinda sketchy to begin with :/ I mean, I understand that we all just want to help someone out and all but that is what other people/organizations prey on. Just really gotta be more careful next time and if possible, if you ever do make a donation- it be done in person.

 

[Party Monger]

Really sorry to hear that but the fact is that there are really just some people who'll take whatever they can from whoever at the cost of others.

First and foremost a call for donations in this day and age is already kinda sketchy to begin with :/ I mean, I understand that we all just want to help someone out and all but that is what other people/organizations prey on. Just really gotta be more careful next time and if possible, if you ever do make a donation- it be done in person.

Not all donations are sketch. We collected 1.5lacs and taught 200kids English for a whole year.

 

[Arv90]

A word from a friend who was jobless and had to work for such an NGO for 6 months was to avoid such NGO's.
It is indeed a well planned case of dramatically forging people in the name of charity.
Even if the NGO is genuine, a very fraction (Less than 50% of the donation) goes to the beneficiary.
The rest is gulped by the workers in the NGO.
Managers in these NGO travel in Mercs and have weekend parties(Rave parties).
The friend was lucky enough to earn 60K in a particular month from a client as commission(In layman terms brokerage).
I was lucky enough to not contribute to such NGO at 5-6 instances.
After getting the friends advise,I have been blatantly refusing to hear their stories

Later have been doing charity by personal means by word of mouth.

Never bothered much about the 80G certificates.
Already have other investments in place.

 

[Party Monger]

A word from a friend who was jobless and had to work for such an NGO for 6 months was to avoid such NGO's.
It is indeed a well planned case of dramatically forging people in the name of charity.
Even if the NGO is genuine, a very fraction (Less than 50% of the donation) goes to the beneficiary.
The rest is gulped by the workers in the NGO.
Managers in these NGO travel in Mercs and have weekend parties(Rave parties).
The friend was lucky enough to earn 60K in a particular month from a client as commission(In layman terms brokerage).
I was lucky enough to not contribute to such NGO at 5-6 instances.
After getting the friends advise,I have been blatantly refusing to hear their stories

Later have been doing charity by personal means by word of mouth.

Never bothered much about the 80G certificates.
Already have other investments in place.

I think you are hugely mistaken here. Do you expect the people that work in NGOs to work for free? Why would good professionals get into solving public problems, if you dont pay them similar to their corporate counter parts? If you pay to an organization that feeds the poor, obviously a part of that donation will cover the salaries of the employees working there. Everyone needs money to live, right? And when they are working their ass off for a good cause that no one wants to touch, then hell they deserve much more.

Its sad old indian thinking that when you want to do some good work you should work for pennies and live like a beggar or by modest means. Hell i'll go around in a Mercedes or Ferrari if I can provide quality education to thousands of children at fraction of the cost that public schools do.

 

[Criminal]

^^ people who willingly work for NGOs are paid peanuts. not talking about owners but the real social workers.

 

[drkrack]

I think you are hugely mistaken here. Do you expect the people that work in NGOs to work for free? Why would good professionals get into solving public problems, if you dont pay them similar to their corporate counter parts? If you pay to an organization that feeds the poor, obviously a part of that donation will cover the salaries of the employees working there. Everyone needs money to live, right? And when they are working their ass off for a good cause that no one wants to touch, then hell they deserve much more.

Its sad old indian thinking that when you want to do some good work you should work for pennies and live like a beggar or by modest means. Hell i'll go around in a Mercedes or Ferrari if I can provide quality education to thousands of children at fraction of the cost that public schools do.

But you need to be honest with your prospective donor also. You need to clearly state what percentage of his donation goes to the actual cause & what percentage goes to your Mercedes EMI.
Because you'll claim Tax benefits from the government for running a non-profit organization.

 

[Arv90]

Do you expect the people that work in NGOs to work for free? Why would good professionals get into solving public problems, if you dont pay them similar to their corporate counter parts? If you pay to an organization that feeds the poor, obviously a part of that donation will cover the salaries of the employees working there.

Dear friend, I am considering the OP's intention to help a helpless child.
A virtue called " CHARITY" not "TAX SAVING"
As far as my perception goes, I really don't intend to hire people to help the helpless.
Lets put it straight,I am not rich enough to pay such middlemen.
I want to make sure that when I buy a 5 Rs Parle-G for a child, the child gets the whole packet of biscuits,not just the biscuit cover.

Before contributing to any NGO's people need to make sure how much of the actual money goes to the benficiary.

Why do you think Indian Govt had a crackdown on these NGO's 2 months back
Govt bans foreign funding for 69 NGOs, 30 of them work for minorities
Govt tightens scrutiny of accounts of foreign-funded NGOs
4,470 NGO Licences cancelled: Sisodia’s Kabir, DU, JNU on list

Am not able to locate the Outlook article online,indicating the actual tricks these corporate companies play potraiting India as a beggar country and receive foreign funds

Its sad old indian thinking that when you want to do some good work you should work for pennies and live like a beggar or by modest means.

Yes, there are Non Profit organisations who work for pennies to help others.
I had a college mate who left her Infy job for this purpose.
There is one working for Govandi Rag picking children who live in modest terms.

Hell i'll go around in a Mercedes or Ferrari if I can provide quality education to thousands of children at fraction of the cost that public schools do

You may not travel in Mercs, but the manager in my friend's company did

 

[drkrack]

As far as my perception goes, I really don't intend to hire people to help the helpless.
Lets put it straight,I am not rich enough to pay such middlemen.

Am not able to locate the Outlook article online,indicating the actual tricks these corporate companies play potraiting India as a beggar country and receive foreign funds

No, not painting India as a poor country is a issue here, there's a deep rooted scam which works as Hawala for transferring the money from abroad at a cheaper cost.
NGO scam is equally bigger but couldn't unearthed due to a close nexus between politicians and media.

Many a times it could be funding for anti social elements too. Many terrorist groups are funded this way.

 

[Arv90]

NGO scam is equally bigger but couldn't unearthed due to a close nexus between politicians and media.

They call it "converting black to white"(MONEY)

 

[Party Monger]

But you need to be honest with your prospective donor also. You need to clearly state what percentage of his donation goes to the actual cause & what percentage goes to your Mercedes EMI.
Because you'll claim Tax benefits from the government for running a non-profit organization.

Oh its not that simple. Let me put it this way- Consider a layman and an experienced professional. Will the results they both bring with say 50 lacs in money be the same? That's the difference. Its not a simple salary split that matters.

Now consider this. A professional will tune the organization into processes, efficiency, scalability and build models that can be replicated so that what they learnt can be constantly added used at scale. In India no one understands these things. The logic is if my money is going into a charity and they pay someone or he has a car, the reaction is -OMG he used my money to buy a car. Its a sad state of affairs.

No one buys a merc in the name of the NGO. The NGO will give them salary seeing their worth and the value they add. They will buy it themselves. Just cause you donated a few pennies you wont control their lives. Now if someone does buy on nGO money thats a whole difference case.

 

[drkrack]

Oh its not that simple. Let me put it this way- Consider a layman and an experienced professional. Will the results they both bring with say 50 lacs in money be the same? That's the difference. Its not a simple salary split that matters.

Now consider this. A professional will tune the organization into processes, efficiency, scalability and build models that can be replicated so that what they learnt can be constantly added used at scale. In India no one understands these things. The logic is if my money is going into a charity and they pay someone or he has a car, the reaction is -OMG he used my money to buy a car. Its a sad state of affairs.

No one buys a merc in the name of the NGO. The NGO will give them salary seeing their worth and the value they add. They will buy it themselves. Just cause you donated a few pennies you wont control their lives. Now if someone does buy on nGO money thats a whole difference case.

You're thereotically right, but practically it doesn't work like that.

It doesn't matter whether I donate few pennies or few lakhs, I'm not buying the stake in the organization. I'm trusting their commitment towards the cause and nothing else.

First scenario : if you own the NGO
You'll need to pay yourself a salary above 3 lakh pm as a founder or professional running a non profit organization to buy a basic Merc (Ferrari is too far to comprehend). You're a individual who's getting profited by running a non profit organization. If you're worth the price of 3 lakh pm out side; you'd probably buy Merc on your own & don't enter NGO for making money.

For eg ; if Bhai does a fundraiser show for Being Human & charges couple of crores as his professional fee.. Will you still consider donating him? It's mainly practiced to convert the Black to White.

It's like begger giving the leftover to charity...

Second scenario :
Where in an NGO needs to hire a professional say lawyer, scientists, engineers etc where they'll have to pay the professional fee, depending upon the project and that's very well justified. You won't call it a charity from the professional, will you?

The third scenario :
Where you are a professional organization working for NGO type of causes. Where you charge a hefty fee for taking up the cause and getting the desired results, your customers could be anyone with vested interests. You're no more a non profit organization but a profitable business. This is More so practiced in West where a Merc or Ferrari is easily justified.

This is where the Ford foundation & it's ban will be discussed. Unfortunately even NGOs funding terrorist groups & Hawala transfer will be in this group.


Scenario 4: Where you're genuinely interested in the cause and leave everything else to achieve your goal. Where you'd think of saving money by traveling in public transport or tata indicas instead of buying a luxurious Merc since it serves the purpose equally well.
Mr Kailash, Medha will be in this group.

I know the assumption which is partially wrong is clubbing charity, NGO & non profit organization in a interchangeable way. It's wrong from a technical perspective but 90% population perceives it in this way. Even when you differentiate them you can't account for a Merc anyway.

 

[asingh]

NGOs are just great ways to make a lot of money. And scam a ton of the population in the process. I see them no different to Sahara.

 

[Party Monger]

You're thereotically right, but practically it doesn't work like that.

It doesn't matter whether I donate few pennies or few lakhs, I'm not buying the stake in the organization. I'm trusting their commitment towards the cause and nothing else.

First scenario : if you own the NGO
You'll need to pay yourself a salary above 3 lakh pm as a founder or professional running a non profit organization to buy a basic Merc (Ferrari is too far to comprehend). You're a individual who's getting profited by running a non profit organization. If you're worth the price of 3 lakh pm out side; you'd probably buy Merc on your own & don't enter NGO for making money.

For eg ; if Bhai does a fundraiser show for Being Human & charges couple of crores as his professional fee.. Will you still consider donating him? It's mainly practiced to convert the Black to White.

It's like begger giving the leftover to charity...

Second scenario :
Where in an NGO needs to hire a professional say lawyer, scientists, engineers etc where they'll have to pay the professional fee, depending upon the project and that's very well justified. You won't call it a charity from the professional, will you?

The third scenario :
Where you are a professional organization working for NGO type of causes. Where you charge a hefty fee for taking up the cause and getting the desired results, your customers could be anyone with vested interests. You're no more a non profit organization but a profitable business. This is More so practiced in West where a Merc or Ferrari is easily justified.

This is where the Ford foundation & it's ban will be discussed. Unfortunately even NGOs funding terrorist groups & Hawala transfer will be in this group.


Scenario 4: Where you're genuinely interested in the cause and leave everything else to achieve your goal. Where you'd think of saving money by traveling in public transport or tata indicas instead of buying a luxurious Merc since it serves the purpose equally well.
Mr Kailash, Medha will be in this group.

I know the assumption which is partially wrong is clubbing charity, NGO & non profit organization in a interchangeable way. It's wrong from a technical perspective but 90% population perceives it in this way. Even when you differentiate them you can't account for a Merc anyway.

Are you insane? Im sorry this is just bullshit and a complete lack of understanding. Please go up and read what I wrote again.

No one wants to work on issues in India cause of people like you. Only people that go there are people that want to use it for nefarious purposes. Why? Cause people like you will question the good people working and running NGOs on their basic salary which they would get anywhere else too. You expect the person to be a going by foot just cause he is working in a social sector. WTF. LOL

So you do good work, you get shafted when it comes to money AND you have random people questioning your intentions. While a shopkeeper will cheat, scam and evade taxes to earn money and you will be okay with that.

Please change your thinking. Anyone who works is entitled to remuneration suitable to their skills, whether they work in an NGO, Run an NGO or work in private of govt jobs.

 

[drkrack]

Are you insane? Im sorry this is just bullshit and a complete lack of understanding. Please go up and read what I wrote again.

No one wants to work on issues in India cause of people like you. Only people that go there are people that want to use it for nefarious purposes. Why? Cause people like you will question the good people working and running NGOs on their basic salary which they would get anywhere else too. You expect the person to be a going by foot just cause he is working in a social sector. WTF. LOL

So you do good work, you get shafted when it comes to money AND you have random people questioning your intentions. While a shopkeeper will cheat, scam and evade taxes to earn money and you will be okay with that.

Please change your thinking. Anyone who works is entitled to remuneration suitable to their skills, whether they work in an NGO, Run an NGO or work in private of govt jobs.

Please stop this childish way of thinking... You're far from reality...

What's your thought sequence?

That people like us (we're in majority) started thinking bad about NGOs & they got corrupt because of this humiliation? Or they become corrupt & we started having bad opinions about them...

It's like saying that politicians are corrupt because majority expect them to be corrupt?
Lol..

Let's take your opinion seriously for a moment...

How will you decide What's the correct remuneration for a person running a NGO?

Is it the
1.personal qualifications or
2. magnanimity of the cause they're fighting for or the
3. financial aid they're attracting
Which one should be a yardstick?

There are no courses for running a NGO, so qualifications don't matter. A person with masters in CS might be working on a totally unrelated cause like rural sanitation for example...

So What's the correct remuneration? Whether It should be based on His last corporate salary or networth? Be practical.

I'm not expecting them to walk barefoot for charity but I wouldn't agree for unnecessary expenditures either.

As with the routine India bashing,
Do you think the foreign NGOs are pretty clean & noble; & work without vested interests ?

Biggest NGOs of this country run by temple trusts are sacrosanct? Or the foreign funded Christian missionaries are great?


NGOs are a equally corrupt organizations, people like Kailash Satyarthi are very rare gems, much like honest & non corrupt politicians; rare to find.

 

[Arv90]

Please change your thinking. Anyone who works is entitled to remuneration suitable to their skills, whether they work in an NGO, Run an NGO or work in private of govt jobs.

As far as i can assimilate from your thought process, prostitution, hired killing, theft,etc. should be paid professions in our society.
These people are definitely helping the society and should be remunerated well.
They are not wrong in MORAL terms.
All are part of NGO(NON Governmental Organisation).

The intention and purpose of these NGO's are definitely noble but the approach and the extent of application is what is being criticised here.

 

[Criminal]

They are not wrong in MORAL terms.

LOL... that's quite right!

 

[Party Monger]

As far as i can assimilate from your thought process, prostitution, hired killing, theft,etc. should be paid professions in our society.
These people are definitely helping the society and should be remunerated well.
They are not wrong in MORAL terms.
All are part of NGO(NON Governmental Organisation).

The intention and purpose of these NGO's are definitely noble but the approach and the extent of application is what is being criticised here.

They are paid professions. Go find a free prostitute.

Who are you to decide the approach and extent of application? You see the extent of help they give out to people, how much change each rupee donated brings in the lives of the people they are wrking for.

For example an NGO receives 10lac in donation and teaches 1000 childen, their cost is 1000 per child per year. Now if the cost of teaching a kid in a regular school is 10k per year then they are doing a great job. What they earn is irrelevant to you. You see the amount of effect your money can bring. If your 1000 rupee can teach one child here and at another place can teach two kids in that, then chose the second one. The NGO that gives the max return, chose that. You'll be surprised how many times that NGO that gives max return will be the one that's professionally managed. Now whether the guy who runs it drives a ferrari is inconsequential. If you can do it cheaper and better, then you do it yourself, people will give you money. Simple.