Query on Domestic LPG Gas and Related Safety Measures

[rootyme]

Can this be an issue because of rubber washer / visor on cylinder, there are lot of videos on yt about solving this, for eg.:

I was personally at the godown. Been fetching personally for half a year now after repeated frustrating experiences. And every single time, I find cylinders that are continuously leaking like this in the godown itself. I check about 3/4 by breaking the seal, test them for leakage and then bring the non-leaking one home. Was not lucky this time. How is HP not doing anything about this?

Lesson: Complain through official channels and you will get the results. Do not complain to the distributor.

yes lodge a complain.
RTI will be too much just complain at CPGRAMS portal.

Noted. But what to do about the leaks? As I said, they have too many cylinders leaking like this in the godown itself. The delivery boy has no control over the cylinders that he gets loaded on his vehicle.

Delivery boy says, "Cylinders are refilled carelessly and then dispatched to the godowns and delivery boys like him are the scapegoats."

 

[blr_p]

Almost 4 out of 5 cylinders in the godown have this sort of leakage when you check, in the godown itself. The delivery guys there resist if you open the seals of multiple cylinders to check, saying - "Why would you break the seals when the cylinders are going to delivered to other consumers?"

In other words this is normal. But the white cap acts to prevent the leak. Because once the tiny chamber in the cap fills up it then equalises with the pressure in the cylinder. Leak stops. Which is why you may hear a pop when removing the cap like opening a soft drink bottle.

If after attaching the regulator you still smell gas then the rubber washer in the cylinder needs to be replaced. On occasion I've had this happen and the supplier has promptly sent some one over to rectify the problem. They don't replace the cylinder just the washer. They just use a ballpoint pen to remove the washer and replace it with a fresh one whose rubber is softer and creates a better seal.

The way you have presented it looks like some national scandal but I don't think it's as bad as it looks

They are basically saying that getting a leakage free cylinder is sort of a lottery. If you break the seal of one, you take that and go home.

No lottery. The cap is there to prevent a leak.

But if you go breaking seals then how will they convince the next customer that gas was not minused before delivery?

Break the seal. You own it.

 

[rootyme]

the cap worked to prevent a leak

Are you sure that the cap 100% stops the valve leak? Is there any official study on the cap's leak-proof-ness?

Because once the tiny chamber in the cap fills up it then equalise with the pressure in the cylinder. Which is why you may hear a pop when removing the cap.

Just saying. Can we calculate what % of the gas (within the cylinder) we lose every time we open the cap?

Given the pace of leakage that you see on the video I posted, how many minutes will it take for the chamber within the plastic cap to fill up?

Assuming we open the cap once every 30 minutes, how many hours will it take us to empty the entire cylinder by just reopening the cap on loop without using the LPG for combustion?

 

[blr_p]

Are you sure that the cap 100% stops the valve leak?

Definitely otherwise cylinders waiting for delivery will weigh demonstrably less on delivery. For the Indane company it would be an unacceptable loss on a mass scale. A simple fix is all it takes. If you hear a pop when removing the cap then it has worked.

Is there any official study on the cap's leak-proof-ness?

Internally perhaps. Not public. Just look at the design. It's got that metal wire in the cap to act as a lock. You have to pull the wire back before it will open. It won't open on its own. So the cylinder cannot leak in storage. Assuming the cap is not faulty and has been applied the correct way. Design is pretty fool-proof. Once it's on, it's locked

Just saying. Can we calculate what % of the gas (within the cylinder) we lose every time we open the cap?

The cap is opened once at delivery to test and then the cylinder is recapped until it is used.

Given the pace of leakage that you see on the video I posted, how many minutes will it take for the chamber within the plastic cap to fill up?

You can test it. Time how long it takes to get a pop when the cap is removed. A few minutes? An hour? More?

Assuming we open the cap once every 30 minutes, how many hours will it take us to empty the entire cylinder by just reopening the cap on loop without using the LPG for combustion?

You can see how small the chamber in the cap is. To empty the cylinder the way you have proposed will take a very long time.

More to the point. Why would you remove the cap for no good reason ?

It's done once at delivery as a test. Then the cylinder is capped until the cylinder is required. Ensure you put the cap on properly by pulling the metal first then capping it and then releasing the metal. There should be a string attached to the cap for this purpose.

 

[rootyme]

Definitely otherwise cylinders waiting for delivery will weigh demonstrably less on delivery.

This is reassuring. To know that the cap is foolproof.

No lottery. The cap is there to prevent a leak.

Noted. By lottery, I meant to say that those cylinders that have nothing leaking from the valve. I have got those too.

Break the seal. You own it.

Damn! :3 What do they with the replaced cylinders then? Just release it to the biosphere?

Is there really no way for the companies to completely prevent any such leak from the valve?

 

[blr_p]

Is there really no way for the companies to completely prevent any such leak from the valve?

Change the valves on a regular schedule. That would be too costly so only when required. If it's observed when refilling that the valve won't hold it will be set aside for replacement.

 

[TEUser2K1]

Test without removing the white cap as mentioned by blr_p, he is mostly right about white cap though am bit skeptical about it's viability in long term.
Looks like the best and cheapest option will be to replace that rubber visor (if that part is the problem), keep a good piece or two at home.
And test the result afterwards.
Give back the original damaged one to distributor once you are giving cylinder back.

No amount of complaining or arguing is going to help such cases easily, a one man army without enough clout and backing is not going to win this fight in a country like India. Avoiding arguments and complaints with these delivery guys or distributors will be better for your mental health.

 

[skoka123]

I was personally at the godown. Been fetching personally for half a year now after repeated frustrating experiences. And every single time, I find cylinders that are continuously leaking like this in the godown itself. I check about 3/4 by breaking the seal, test them for leakage and then bring the non-leaking one home. Was not lucky this time. How is HP not doing anything about this?


Noted. But what to do about the leaks? As I said, they have too many cylinders leaking like this in the godown itself. The delivery boy has no control over the cylinders that he gets loaded on his vehicle.

Delivery boy says, "Cylinders are refilled carelessly and then dispatched to the godowns and delivery boys like him are the scapegoats."

I repeat. Complain through official channels. Make a video of your interaction with the delivery boys and post it on YouTube. Provide the link in your complaint.

 

[kiran6680]

I was personally at the godown. Been fetching personally for half a year now after repeated frustrating experiences. And every single time, I find cylinders that are continuously leaking like this in the godown itself. I check about 3/4 by breaking the seal, test them for leakage and then bring the non-leaking one home. Was not lucky this time. How is HP not doing anything about this?


Noted. But what to do about the leaks? As I said, they have too many cylinders leaking like this in the godown itself. The delivery boy has no control over the cylinders that he gets loaded on his vehicle.

Delivery boy says, "Cylinders are refilled carelessly and then dispatched to the godowns and delivery boys like him are the scapegoats."

I keep my spare cylinder, full of 10-14 kg LPG, without cap or regulator. It stays there for a month or two. There is no smell, ever.

This is not normal. More than the monetary/natural resource loss, it is the safety I'm concerned about. Leaked LPG does not ignite with 100% guarantee in all circumstances, so no fire for a long time might give you a false sense of security.

Edit : I found the cap hanging, so I capped my spare cylinder for now.

 

[rootyme]

I keep my spare cylinder, full of 10-14 kg LPG, without cap or regulator.

You are eligible to apply for BSF.

I can never. I mean the unforgettable scenes of the 1945 nuking (CGI) flash past my eyes whenever I see an uncapped cylinder.

I must mention that we are tenants, not landlords who can store the spare cylinder outside the rooms we occupy. While we technically can, our previous crazy landlord wanted us to share the spare one with himself, the rest of the tenants and have us use the leftover gas (free of cost ofc). He also wanted our inverter shared for the mass well-being of, again, himself and the rest of his tenants. Kind of scarred from such an experience. I am yet to encounter a crazier guy landlord in my life.

 

[kiran6680]

You are eligible to apply for BSF.

You mean border security force?

The cap nearly always seems so flimsy, that the idea that my LPG safety depends on that is funny.

 

[rootyme]

You mean border security force?

Aye Sergeant! (￣^￣)ゞ

 

[mzsa1994]

Our cylinder was delivered by the same person over 6-7 years.

Couple years back we suspected the cylinder weight was off.

So we bought this https://amzn.in/d/09IFNKxK

When the guy came to deliver the cylinder, we asked him to take the weight first. He refused initially, but he was forced to do it, and as we suspected, it was 2.5 kg less.
He immediately started giving us excuses and left.

That guy stopped coming to our house, but from then on, we got our cylinder with the exact weight.

 

[Emperor]

Isn't it the little leak may help cylinder not to get blast by swelling like balloon, as in transportation, gas cylinders are constantly in shaking mode till it either set in Godown or at users place? As constant shaking may induce gas to swell little more (may be in minute scale) than they filled in cylinder?

 

[mzsa1994]

Isn't it the little leak may help cylinder not to get blast by swelling like balloon, as in transportation, gas cylinders are constantly in shaking mode till it either set in Godown or at users place? As constant shaking may induce gas to swell little more (may be in minute scale) than they filled in cylinder?

Kis gole ka gyan hai ye

 

[kiran6680]

Isn't it the little leak may help cylinder not to get blast by swelling like balloon, as in transportation, gas cylinders are constantly in shaking mode till it either set in Godown or at users place? As constant shaking may induce gas to swell little more (may be in minute scale) than they filled in cylinder?

Shaking doesn't increase the pressure, if that's what you mean by gas swelling.
See the first experiment here :

 

[rootyme]

He refused initially, but he was forced to do it, and as we suspected, it was 2.5 kg less.
He immediately started giving us excuses and left.

God damn it man! I never thought it could be off by that much! Who is your provider now?

 

[mzsa1994]

Shaking doesn't increase the pressure, if that's what you mean by gas swelling.
See the first experiment here :

And on another note these cylinders are designed after considering a significant FOS (factor of safety), that is these cylinders can bear very high pressure than the pressure of 14-15kg of LPG


For technical specs and requirements of these cylinders one can read this pdf:

https://tenders.hpcl.co.in/tenders/tender_prog/tenderfiles/4956/Tender/14.2%20KG%20NEW%20TENDER-1/06-%20A%20-%2014.2%20Kg%20Technical%20Specifications-%20Annexure%20III.pdf

God damn it man! I never thought it could be off by that much! Who is your provider now?

Bharat Gas

 

[rootyme]

So we bought this https://amzn.in/d/09IFNKxK

Thanks a lot man. Have to buy this asap.

 

[kiran6680]

And on another note these cylinders are designed after considering a significant FOS (factor of safety), that is these cylinders can bear very high pressure than the pressure of 14-15kg of LPG


For technical specs and requirements of these cylinders one can read this pdf:

https://tenders.hpcl.co.in/tenders/tender_prog/tenderfiles/4956/Tender/14.2%20KG%20NEW%20TENDER-1/06-%20A%20-%2014.2%20Kg%20Technical%20Specifications-%20Annexure%20III.pdf

Yeah, but there are measures of safety and technical specs of bridges in Bihar, airport canopies, cough syrups too. From OP's story, there is some spec - human or technical that got violated in this case too.