Audio Random IEM / Headphone Rants

@Gryph0n
Is Sansa ( Fuse/Clip) better than a Ipod......
Will it be better to invest in a Sansa ,Creative Zen,Hippo Gumstick........or go for something like Ipod Classic/Cowon
which would be better VFM.........or there other better chaises within this range
P.S- I Own a 3-4 Year old Phillips GoGear 2GB........feeling a little out of storage...
 
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Getting back on schedule...


  1. A161P vs HF2 vs PFE vs XBA-1 : Single BA shoot-out. After this psygeist should be getting his stuff back and will send me others :p
  2. Pro Alpha vs E10M
  3. Philips SHE3570 vs ES18
  4. A little more listening to GR06
  5. JVC FX700 vs FXT90 vs FXD80 vs FXD70 - once I am done sending everything back.

I have made another stupid purchase knowing fully well that I may not gain much from it (not an IEM, not a headphone).

Thinking of Heir 4Ai. Yet to make up my mind :unsure:

sbuch,

Depends on your budget and requirements - capacity, battery life, output power etc., Purely based on SQ, I don't find any of the branded players to be hugely better than the Sansas, but each have their strengths and weaknesses - meaning they can out do Sansas in an area or two for sure.
 
Gryph0n
Is Sansa ( Fuse/Clip) better than a Ipod......
Will it be better to invest in a Sansa ,Creative Zen,Hippo Gumstick........or go for something like Ipod Classic/Cowon
which would be better VFM.........or there other better chaises within this range
P.S- I Own a 3-4 Year old Phillips GoGear 2GB........feeling a little out of storage...
I agree with esanthosh, in terms of clear (un-equalized/uncoloured) output, none of the other players are better than Sansa. However if you like to equalize music, or prefer a coloured sound, then Sansa aren't the best. I believe some Hippo/Nationite and most Cowon players have BBE 'effects' for equalization. The iPods have a warm colouration that many find pleasing and their UI is probably the best.

Another point in favour of Sansa players is that they allow you to add external microsd cards, while most of the others are "sealed" (allowing you to only use their internal memory).

In terms of sheer VFM, the Sansa Clip used to be the king of the hill with cost between ~2k to ~3k. However, I believe their prices have gone up after the exchange rates went north, and I'm not sure how they now compare in terms of VFM.

TLDR; there are trade-offs. Decide on what factors are important to you, and then the choice becomes easy.
 
Actually, Sansas are not far behind in EQ once Rockboxed. I have written this a few times, but Cowon is not the only one with strength in EQ, it does still have that in battery life.

When Rockboxed, you get a parametric EQ with Clip+. There's a small learning curve - knowing what to cut, where to cut, how to set the Q factor etc., But once done, it offers better control than the fixed 5 band EQ of Cowon. They also allow you to store unlimited presets unlike Cowon's 4 user pre-sets.

iDevices have eQu and equalizer pro which cost little ($2-3, I think), but offer the same advantage as Rockbox - but visually (unless you have fat fingers). It offers even more freedom to tune the shape as you want. It's another thing that I could not do a fine touching job on the iPod touch. While Apple's closed system and iTunes on windows may scare people off, I don't think any MP3 player thus far had brought out a seamless touch interface rivaling Apple (I have not tried Samsung yet).

That leaves BBE. Unlike the other two, Cowon's EQ is hardware based. That is the advantage. BBE effects, when used right can be great. But, they all color the sound one way or another. Unlike Apple and Sony, Cowon has a microSD card slot as well. But, two things against Cowon - they rehash their (really old) products and have not released an update to the really well working J3 and they are costly.
 
@esanthosh @Gryph0n
1) would a combination of SanDisk Fuze8GB + Fiio E7 + 32GB Internal SD=(4,400.00+4828+1400) be better than iPod Classic 160GB
2) would be a Hippo Gumstick be better than SanDisk Fuze8GB SQ wise...
 
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1) would a combination of SanDisk Fuze8GB + Fiio E7 + 32GB Internal SD=(4,400.00+4828+1400) be better than iPod Classic 160GB
In terms of uncoloured SQ, definitely Sansa. IIRC, iPod Classics had sometime ago moved to an inferior DAC.

If you plan to use RockBox, do keep in mind that RockBox support for "Fuze+" is not fully mature. I believe Rockbox'll work fine for SQ, but there are interface niggles that have yet to be ironed out (Button response etc.). The RockBox support for Fuze (Not "+") and Clip is very mature. Unfortunately Sansa discontinued the Fuze in favour of Fuze+, so only the Clip's are the only Sansa's you can buy that have fully mature support.

I would like to ask you for your reasons to get the E9. The E9 isn't portable, and isn't really necessary with canal-phones, or ear-phones.

2) would be a Hippo Gumstick be better than SanDisk Fuze8GB SQ wise...
I haven't heard the Hiipo, but I believe it has a difficult interface, whereas the Sansa isn't too bad. I'll let esanthosh comment on the SQ since I think he has heard it.
 
@sbuch,

Fuze, the original v1, uses a different chipset (DAC + Amp) than Clip+ and Fuze V2. I think Clip Zip is an option to consider as well. It may be using the same chip as Fuze+ (though they all sound the same, there are volume differences between Clip/Fuze v1 and Clip+/Fuze v2 with the latter being louder at the same volume level).

iPod Classic most probably uses a Cirrus Logic DAC. My memory fails me at this point, but I think I have heard a few Cirrus Logic DACs. The only one with a good implementation is UHA-6S. It's not a surprise that "By day, owner Nick Leckerton works as an Application Engineer for Cirrus Logic, helping other companies implement Cirrus chips into their products" (quoted from here)

iPod's sound signature is flat as well. It's amp section is more powerful than the Sansas. It's separation is likely to be better, sound stage size is also likely to be more. But, the iPod Touch 3G I had seemed a bit 'cold' to me. It was a little lacking in emotion. Not sure if that's the case with the Classic as well. The advantage of Classic is that Rockbox may become stable sometime in the near future, which should allow you use formats like FLAC. It likely has a better battery life than Sansa (15 hours?) and has more storage capacity (though it's a HDD).

Hippo Gumstick and Nanite N2 are both Cube C30's versions. I have owned the N2 before. While many like and prefer N2 over Clip+, I thought that while power, sound stage, warmth and BBE effects were in favor of N2, it's lack of tag support, gap-less playback, small screen were major, major downers. I did not find it to be better in SQ, just on equal terms with Clip+.

As for your question, here is the tricky issue suggesting without knowing your preferences in detail - What I do not think as important (sound stage size for instance) may be very important to you. So, you might like and prefer N2 and iPod Classic over Sansas. If your friends have any of these players and you can try them, it should be the best route possible. In the absence of that, I am going to say that Clip+ / Clip Zip is a good option. E7 is not as powerful, it works only with IEMs. So, you can buy a E12 whenever it's available IF and ONLY IF you need more driving power than what Clip+/CZ offers for your existing IEMs and Headphones.
 
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Random thought of the night: The first ever set of cables that make me want to buy purely based on description :scared14:

PYST was the god of drinking in Norse mythology. He’d be much better-known if he wasn’t getting schiit-faced all the time. Or, well, not really. PYST stands for Put Your Schiit Together, a set of short cables that make stacking your DAC and amp easy.


Beyond Just Technology: SuperUltraHyperTechnology

PYST cables are made from only the finest 6-nines Unobtaniumâ„¢ alloy, molecularly assembled in our Alternate Universeâ„¢ reality-distortion tesseract field , using a secret geometry reverse-engineered from crashed UFOs, painstakingly smuggled out of Area 51 by deep-cover operatives. Performance is further enhanced by the use of a QuantConnectâ„¢ quantum-entangled pair of transmission interfaces, held at absolute zero by our exclusive Stasis Fieldâ„¢ technology. The cables are then wrapped in NanoAeroCapâ„¢, a nanotechnology-enabled aerogel anti-capacitance insulation system, featuring Fractal Interleaved Geometryâ„¢ to create negative inductance for maximum audio transmission quality.

Or, er, well . . . again, no. These are nice, high-quality cables, with solid, reliable connectors. And they’re short. And not too expensive. That’s it. Hope you like them!
 
@esanthosh
so u r saying that
1.SQ of iPod classic,sansa,Nanonit are almost same no day&night difference..................so i may go for the sansa being cheap and External SD facility
2. DAC like E11,E17 is not needed since they will not improve SQ but only be required for more power consuming headphones, not required for IEM's.
 
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1. Yes! To my ears, they sound different, but not far ahead in SQ like night and day. They might sound "clearer", better separated, have a wider sound stage, loads of power.... but they do not drive the same IEM far better than Sansas. Better as in "Man! I want to dump the Clip+" happens to me when listening to iPod Video 5G -> 2SD, QA350 -> UHA6S, DacMini CX - none of them cheap. In other cases, while I find them better in some areas, I eventually return back to Clip+ as my primary DAP. How do I explain this? It's more like comparing M1 and M2 (unlike M1 to EX-1000). While M2 is better for many, some might choose M1 over M2 and they would not be wrong. Clip+/CZ is NOT the best sounding device there is. But, when it comes to bringing out the IEM's signature they are far from inferior.

2. Not exactly! In general, I found that while amps (most decent amps) "improve" sound, the differences were not substantial barring select IEMs. You will definitely prefer the amplified version in most cases, but the way I see it, they are not a necessity to lug around. If you find yourself cranking volume high up in the Sansas (near 0 in Rockbox, 80-90% in stock?) quite often, you may need an amp. I have used FiiO E5 (crap), iBasso T3 (decent), Arrow 3G (good), UHA-6S and 2SD (very good). Based on that, I'd say that getting an amp that makes an actual improvement to your setup is more difficult than the reviews make out to be.
 
I believe the iPod does indeed have the cirrus DAC, so I've read anyway. The 5.5G iMod that I'm currently using is the wolfson one.

Get any player you like but try investing in one with a line out, makes a difference when you buy a decent portable amp.....and I'm quite certain that day will come.
 
@Ritvik,

Apart from iPods (via LOD), select Sony Models (via LOD) and Fuze (via LOD), are there other available, portable players which have line out?

T51/S:Flo2 is hard to get (as are the older iRiver H1x0 except for used ones turning up FS). QA350 is a brick (as is HM-60x). HM-801 and DX-100 are costly.
 
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Can't think of any apart from the ones you mentioned. As much as people dislike the iPod to me it makes the most sense to own. People claim the 4, 5 and 5.5 with the wolfson dac are superior but I've heard the 6 as well and couldn't really notice anything drastically different. Everything else apart from the Fuze is hard to source or not the most practical to use.

I was talking to this guy at a local audio store who mentioned some Chinese players, none of which I can remember, but those are subject to bad non-English UI and firmware issues according to him, but they do apparently have lineouts.
 
@iittopper
Flipkart ......has listed the Sansa clip + also sansa fuse + as discontinued
Pristine notes has got sansa fuse +.........SanDisk Fuze+8GB (WHITE) [Fuze+] - Rs.4,400.00 : Pristine Note, Shop audio, headphones, amplifier, DAC, hifi, mp3, audiophile products online store India
but i have read reviews that the control pad is pretty bad..... @Esantosh
what will be better SQ wise.......( i want good quality base-punchy,good separation).......a fuse + or a hippo gumstick.........since both have Ext SD .......the only down side of gum stick being the display
 
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what will be better SQ wise.......( i want good quality base-punchy,good separation).......a fuse + or a hippo gumstick.........since both have Ext SD .......the only down side of gum stick being the display

No tag support - THAT will be the major issue (unless you have the habit of maintaining library by <artist>\<album> at the very least).

Read this review and then decide - [REVIEW] Hippo Gumstick
 
@esanthosh
but it seems sansa has discontinued both clip + & fuse +
but fuse + seems to be available with pristinenotes...............have you had any experience with fuse +...? is the control pad really bad as they say?
 
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