Rediff Article Takes On TOI, Hindu.. And Our Fledgling Self Respect.

David Headley case: US has let down India badly

All governments indulge in spin. One should not, therefore, blame the government of Dr Manmohan Singh for indulging in spin in the case of David Coleman Headley, of the Chicago cell of the Lashkar-e-Tayiba , and for trying to mislead the hapless Indian public with the help of obliging journalists that the plea bargain entered into by the Federal Bureau of Investigation with Headley was not a setback, but a great triumph for Indian diplomacy.

We might not have succeeded in getting him extradited in the Mumbai 26/11 case, says Union Home Secretary G K Pillai bravely, but the option of getting him extradited in other cases is still open. What other cases?

We will keep trying, says Union Home Minister P Chidambaram. And, in the meanwhile, more Indians will keep dying at the hands of the terrorists.

'Four Reasons Why India is Smiling' says The Times of India. Why India is smiling according to the whiz kids of the TOI? For the first time LeT's links with the Al Qaeda being underscored in a United States court. Oh really? The first time a clandestine cell of the LeT was detected in the US was in 2003 when George Bush was the President. The FBI arrested a number of American nationals of Pakistani, Saudi and other origin and charged them with waging war against India from US territory.

What is the second reason for India's smile visible only to the TOI and not to many of us? "The threat of execution will hang over him." Oh really? Under the US law once the FBI renounces its right to demand death penalty in a case, it cannot go back on its commitment whatever be the new evidence.

What is the third reason for the smile? India can interrogate Headley even if he is not extradited. Another gem from the TOI. Interrogation is done in your custody. Otherwise, it is meaningless. Yes, under the plea bargain Indian investigators can question him in FBI's custody. The FBI officer will decide the relevance of the questions.

What is the fourth reason for India's smile so visible to the TOI? India's case against the LeT has become stronger. So what? Will India be able to get Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, the founder of the LeT, arrested and prosecuted by Pakistan? Will India be able to see that Pakistan dismantles the LeT infrastructure in Pakistani territory? Will India be able to prevent another 26/11? Then of what use India's case against the LeT becoming stronger?

The Hindu, another national other daily, has come out with its own gem. "Barring death penalty enthusiasts, no one has any reason to bemoan the plea agreement," it says

But it has got nothing to do with death penalty. It has got everything to do with Pakistan's continued use of the LeT to kill hundreds of innocent Indians.

Our investigation into 26/11 runs on two parallel tracks -- the responsibility of the LeT, which the Pakistanis project as a non-state actor with which the state of Pakistan has nothing to do.

What the US has sought to achieve through the choreographed plea bargain is that while India will be able to highlight the responsibility of the LeT, it will not be able to establish the responsibility of the state of Pakistan. The Obama administration wants the world to perceive 26/11 as the crime of a non-state actor as claimed by Pakistan and not the crime of the state of Pakistan. That is the real issue here.

What did Headley know according to the FBI's own court affidavits?

He knew chief operational chief of Harkat-ul-Jihadi Islami Ilyas Kashmiri of the 313 Brigade, who is close to Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden and who recently threatened to attack the Indian Premier League cricket matches and the Commonwealth Games. Headley had met him in North Waziristan in the beginning of 2009.

He knew many office-bearers of the LeT whose identities the FBI has not revealed.

He knew many serving and retired officers of the Pakistan Army.

What he must be knowing?

The identities of the many contacts he made in India during his repeated visits.

The identities of the sleeper cells of the LeT, which have not yet come to the notice of the Indian investigators. If the FBI had allowed us to question Headley in time, we might have been able to prevent the Pune blast of February 13 if it had been planned by the LeT or its Indian associates.

The FBI had seen to it that we will not be able to find out all this by independently interrogating Headley. It is a great tragedy and speaks eloquently of the decay of our sense of national self-respect that instead of having the spine to stand up to the US and protest loud and clear over the FBI's shutting out access to Headley, we are indulging in more spins to project what has happened as a triumph for Indo-US cooperation over which we should smile and not cry.

The Obama administration has been repeatedly kicking us in the back. It did so in respect of Afghanistan. It has done so in respect of Headley. Instead of having the courage and intellectual honesty to admit to our people that we have been let down nastily by the US, we are indulging in more spins to project the kicks as, in fact, bouquets from Obama with love.

Dear Dr Manmohan Singh, Dear Chidambaram, Dear Pillai, and dear journalists of the Hindu and TOI: Some weeks ago Mulla Baradar, supposedly No 2 in the Afghan Taliban, was arrested by the Inter Services Intelligence in Karachi. He is in the ISI's custody. The US and Afghan intelligence wanted independent access to him for interrogation.

The ISI refused and told them he could be questioned in the ISI's custody. The US insisted on independent access and warned Pakistan of the likely consequences if it did not agree to it. This week's reports say that Pakistan has been forced to allow independent access to the Americans.

That is the way a self-respecting nation protects its interests and nationals. For the US, independent interrogation of Baradar was necessary to hold those responsible for American deaths in the past accountable and to prevent more deaths in future. It insisted on it and had its way.

India is not the US. The clout which it has over Pakistan we do not have anywhere in the world. At least we could have had the courage to protest -- loudly and openly -- instead of projecting every stab in the back by Obama as a kiss in the back.
Source
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Found this article pertinent and an interesting read. Covered facts and not the sugar syrup the Newspaper been handing out.
Just curious to know comments from all you guys.
Pls try to keep the discussion meaningful.
 
i agree ...we arrest some terrorists and us is here or they fly the witness there to interrogate but they have a huge guy in their jail and we dont even get to question him????? and we are spinning saying its a good thing about the plea? ,,, nonsense , we are bending over our backs to please obama & co
 
I knew abt the Raman blog and him being involved with RAW.

posted the rediff link so as to avoid the article from being branded as something written on a blog.

What i find amusing is that the Govt has got the nerve to attempt a brainwash on the upcoming generation to keep them in the same spineless trance as they have learnt to keep themselves in.

They cudnt say no to the Hijackers when they demanded Masood Azhar and they ll never get that prized catch again.

Now they cannot stand up and voice their concerns officially so as to let the citizens of both the countries and the world know.

True there must have been arm twisting and few things said to threaten the future collaboration.. but is this the way to lead on the nation ??
 
broadway said:
Times of india and the hindu are just tabloids pretending to be broadsheets. There has to be an end to the UPA and it's serendipity's.

The Hindu isnt a tabloid . Dont pass judgements on papers you dont read regularly . A single bad article wont make a newspaper a tabloid .
 
GrimReaper said:
The Hindu isnt a tabloid
Yes, it is. That is why i do not read it.
A single bad article wont make a newspaper a tabloid.
I know people who have been reading ToI for more than 10 years. They would say the exact same thing that your saying. It is only a reality check. You do not have to agree with me.
 
Well if INDIA gets HEADLEY here....people will start craving we paying all expense for the killer of 26/11 on lines of KASAB..And now when we wont get him(but can ask questions via US)..we saying double standard by USA

Its better he remains there...Also he was a double agent of USA..they wont under any circumstance will pass forward it to us or even country like CHINA or RUSSIA if they had asked...

And guys RAW is much more like polticans hound these days...they promote particular parties and after every short interval gender bias discrimination comes out....though i know its important and prestigious agency of the country but not of the range of FBI or russians and scotish intelligence
 
MAGNeT said:
And guys RAW is much more like polticans hound these days...they promote particular parties and after every short interval gender bias discrimination comes out
RAW does not promote parties but your right, they have been reduced to subservient to the ruling govt. They present reports but the govt. in the centre calls the shots.
 
broadway said:
I know people who have been reading ToI for more than 10 years. They would say the exact same thing that your saying. It is only a reality check. You do not have to agree with me.

To Each his own

But i suppose whatever paper you read is perfect in the sense that every news article is published "as is" and it doesnt use a single image/picture for illustrations ?

MAGNeT said:
And guys RAW is much more like polticans hound these days...they promote particular parties and after every short interval gender bias discrimination comes out....though i know its important and prestigious agency of the country but not of the range of FBI or russians and scotish intelligence

For a 60 year old country it has grown to impressive levels . It is just that there is a communication issue between Intelligence and government .when Intelligence agencies like the MI6 (UK) have'nt been able to effectively predict terror attacks , goofing up more than once what should we be expecting from RAW ? .
 
GrimReaper said:
To Each his own
But i suppose whatever paper you read is perfect in the sense that every news article is published "as is" and it doesnt use a single image/picture for illustrations ?
Every single article is biased. You just have to read the grammar to figure out which side it has chosen. But some are very biased. These one's do not limit themselves to just grammer. Sometimes they are too explicit to remain neutral. Or to be redeemed.
GrimReaper said:
For a 60 year old country it has grown to impressive levels. It is just that there is a communication issue between Intelligence and government.
And by adopting a language that isn't our mother tongue, we make it more tough on us. I have kept repeating the importance of language and words you use. They make all the difference in diplomacy. It is the reason why the chinese prefer mandarin and use a translator when necessary. Indian leaders however are show-offs, who prefer to speak like an "english gentlemen". Chidambaram's english makes me want to vomit.
GrimReaper said:
Intelligence agencies like the MI6 have'nt been able to effectively predict terror attacks , goofing up more than once.
How many terror attacks have happened in the UK? And can you compare the number with the one's in india? No one can suspend these attacks forever, you can only prevent them as much as you can. For that, you need intelligence. Like raman says, headley has a lot of info on the sleeper cells in india. India can use that info to prevent attacks. Pune attacks happened just a week after a giant rally in pakistan called for attacks on india. Information is crucial and headley has a lot of it.
 
broadway said:
And by adopting a language that isn't our mother tongue, we make it more tough on us. I have kept repeating the importance of language and words you use. They make all the difference in diplomacy. It is the reason why the chinese prefer mandarin and use a translator when necessary.

Easy for them they can speak Mandarin .Which language should the government use ? Hindi ? Tamil ? Punjabi ? Telugu ? Marathi ?

Indian leaders however are show-offs, who prefer to speak like an "english gentlemen". Chidambaram's english makes me want to vomit.

Not for showing off rather because of necessity . Many Indians do not speak in Hindi , especially in the South . PC is a Tamilian who cannot speak Hindi (correct me if i am mistaken) and will be more than happy to speak in Tamil . In Tamil Nadu in all interviews he speaks only in Tamil and you call him a show off ? .

And he has got an MBA from Harvard so his English must be good enough .

The miscommunication has nothing to do with language and has more to do with ineffective bureaucracy in Indian politics . It is well known that in many cases the government had prior intelligence that was not taken seriously .

How many terror attacks have happened in the UK? And can you compare the number with the one's in india?

why is that necessary

No one can suspend these attacks forever, you can only prevent them as much as you can.

Why has there been no major terror attack in the US since 9/11 ?

For that, you need intelligence. Like raman says, headley has a lot of info on the sleeper cells in india.

He is so excited he cant wait to pass it on to Indian authorities .

India can use that info to prevent attacks. Pune attacks happened just a week after a giant rally in pakistan called for attacks on india. Information is crucial and headley has a lot of it.

When Indian authorities have struggled to extract information from the common criminals in India (Example news item : Narco Analysis on Talwar couple draws blank) . what luck are they going to have with a hardened terrorist ?
 
@GrimReaper, I remember reading some articles in Outlook and/or India Today regarding the rot in RAW. Research and Analysis Wing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Read up the controversies section. Outlook had a more detailed report on RAW. Stuck up bureaucratic organisation is what RAW is becoming. Hiding in-competencies, corruption and the like under National Security issues is what RAW/ CBI and the like are good at. Ex RAW officials exposing the truth and human rights activists carrying publicly available maps of India are persecuted while the bombs keep going off.

Sure, the politicians are to blame. But do you really think the law enforcing bodies are any better? Or the army for that matter? The ketchup encounters for medals episode, the water in oil tankers scandal, the wide scale corruption in procurements etc. etc. But wait, it's just the politicians.

We as citizens of India should never justify incompetency. Be it RAW, the Army or our dear leaders.Keep your standards low by mouthing excuses like "what can we expect?" and you'll just get that. A low standard product.
 
Spacescreamer said:
What i find amusing is that the Govt has got the nerve to attempt a brainwash on the upcoming generation to keep them in the same spineless trance as they have learnt to keep themselves in.
They cudnt say no to the Hijackers when they demanded Masood Azhar and they ll never get that prized catch again.
Now they cannot stand up and voice their concerns officially so as to let the citizens of both the countries and the world know.
Govts everywhere do this, when they are unable to produce the results.

I agree with what Raman has said but in the end Headley is an American catch, a US citizen of Pak origin.

Access to him was barred to keep the Paks happy whom they depend on at the moment. Obama want s a second term, the Paks can deny him that by not cooperating. It perhaps becomes a little easier to understand if not accept when viewed from this lens :)

There is one point where i disagree with Raman and thats to do with Baradar. The question isn't that he was allowed to be interrogated by the the Paks. But why he was caught in the first place. Without being caught there is no question of interrogation and the reason for it is deals cut with the Paks, more role to play in Afghanistan in exchange. So we see nobody cooperates unless there is a reason.
 
Naga said:
Sure, the politicians are to blame. But do you really think the law enforcing bodies are any better?

They are definitely better . Those may have their issues but are not as dysfunctional as the political system .

when the political leadership is set right everything else will fall in line . Leaders should take up responsibility not their peripherals .

We as citizens of India should never justify incompetency. Be it RAW, the Army or our dear leaders.Keep your standards low by mouthing excuses like "what can we expect?" and you'll just get that. A low standard product.

Will repeated criticism set everything in order then ?

Everybody is good at pointing out the problem . Very few can give a solution though .
 
^^ totally agree. While it is not right to blame just the politicians for all the things wrong in this country they are the only ones who can actually do anything to fix things.
 
broadway said:
RAW does not promote parties but your right, they have been reduced to subservient to the ruling govt. They present reports but the govt. in the centre calls the shots.

It doesnt but when a RAW official speaks he shows which side of the coin or party he supports..

GrimReaper said:
For a 60 year old country it has grown to impressive levels . It is just that there is a communication issue between Intelligence and government .when Intelligence agencies like the MI6 (UK) have'nt been able to effectively predict terror attacks , goofing up more than once what should we be expecting from RAW ? .

But is RAW anywhere near Israel type agencies and all which on foreign soil can produce result in air hijacking or the black September incident ?

Except when some bomblast happens in pak only than u hear RAW is involved but my mind says its high time blaming RAW they dont evevn have guts to blast your A#$
 
GrimReaper said:
Which language should the government use ?
The national language.
GrimReaper said:
Not for showing off rather because of necessity.
It's because of "defiance". Decades have passed and what has resulted out of it? Regional chaos!! This sort of defiance is BS. Dravidian progress federation is BS.
GrimReaper said:
why is that necessary
It shows how successful they have been in preempting an attack.
GrimReaper said:
Why has there been no major terror attack in the US since 9/11 ?
Intelligence and preemption. Mostly, they have kept al-qaeda engaged in afghanistan and iraq. The moment they pull there troops out of that region, chances of a domestic attack increase rapidly. The US believes in pre-emption. Attack rather than defend.
GrimReaper said:
He is so excited he cant wait to pass it on to Indian authorities.
I would too. By claiming to have arrested baradar, the pakistani's have become the dictators of america's actions. Headley concerns india. Baradar concerns the US. The pakistani's are excellent diplomats and the US have begun to realize that.
GrimReaper said:
When Indian authorities have struggled to extract information from the common criminals in India (Example news item : Narco Analysis on Talwar couple draws blank) . what luck are they going to have with a hardened terrorist ?
Failure to control terrorism is a political problem because it concerns the minorities and votes need to be gathered. Knowing very well that indians were responsible for the blasts in mumbai trains, the govt. still forces itself to put the blame on the pakistanis by pointing at RDX. If only it had the wisdom to put appeasement politics behind and bust the sleeper cells, we would be talking economy rather than pakistanis luring unsuspected indians muslims into committing crimes. An already tangled mess is made more complex.
MAGNeT said:
It doesnt but when a RAW official speaks he shows which side of the coin or party he supports..
Which RAW official have you seen speaking?

FYI, B.Raman is only 1-2 people from intelligence background who manage a blog to voice there opinions. Raman was very happy when congress won. The article of his posted by OP is very unlike him. This is what he wrote in this article which came as a surprise to everyone.

Code:
4. Headley will be protected. The FBI will be protected. The US administration will be protected. The Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) will be protected. The Pakistani Government and its Army will be protected.

5. Only we poor Indians will remain unprotected because the Govt. of India headed by Dr.Manmohan Singh cannot protect us.

6. What naivete, Mr.Prime Minister! What naivete!( 18-3-2010)
 
broadway said:
Which RAW official have you seen speaking?

I m talking in general not about a particular official

u know in INDIA when a person have good details about security stuff or defence details about strategies they become part of RAW ...

How can u forget about self acclaimed FADIA ...no RAW i guess is allowed to speak untill they retire from service or no longer part of it on any medium
 
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