Something is terribly wrong with India's Covid experts

This might have been discussed before so if someone can summarise:
  • What is the difference in immunity that I develop from getting Corona and getting vaccinated? Vaccines are also mild inactivated virus.
  • If there is none, then isn't this wildfire spread of Corona in India a fast and painful path to herd immunity?
  • We all agree that figures are grossly underreported. More so, several times more people are getting infected but not tested and they are recovering. So more and more people are coming out of this with some immunity?
  • Do people who have had Corona, need to be vaccinated?
  • if this thing is moving in waves and the vaccine ensures that the next infection is a mild one, then we all agree that Corona will hopefully become another common cold or pneumonia which also kills several thousand every year. So how long before we reach that stage?

PS: How long before people start claiming elections and Kumbh was a master stroke surgical strike to build herd immunity?
 
This might have been discussed before so if someone can summarise:
  • What is the difference in immunity that I develop from getting Corona and getting vaccinated? Vaccines are also mild inactivated virus.
  • If there is none, then isn't this wildfire spread of Corona in India a fast and painful path to herd immunity?
  • We all agree that figures are grossly underreported. More so, several times more people are getting infected but not tested and they are recovering. So more and more people are coming out of this with some immunity?
  • Do people who have had Corona, need to be vaccinated?
  • if this thing is moving in waves and the vaccine ensures that the next infection is a mild one, then we all agree that Corona will hopefully become another common cold or pneumonia which also kills several thousand every year. So how long before we reach that stage?

PS: How long before people start claiming elections and Kumbh was a master stroke surgical strike to build herd immunity?
1. Immunity from vaccines is supposed to last for much longer once you get both doses. Immunity gained through infection last for a short few months. Also, only Bharat Biotech uses an inactivated Corona virus. AZ vaccine uses another virus' vector to train immune response to covid virus.

2. I think this is not a guarantee. Sero surveys had already shown high infection rates previously. Still this wave had gotten deadly. Possible this means that natural immunity wanes after a while. Herd immunity will only be for real if it lasts longer. Like in case of vaccines.

3. Likely yes

4. Yes. Since immunity acquired through infection doesn't last forever.

5. @red dragon Mentioned this some time ago. He said this won't be eradicated forever but can be made irrelevant through vaccination. Please correct me if i have misquoted you.

6. Quite possible unfortunately.
 
Immunity from vaccines is supposed to last for much longer once you get both doses.
May I know the source of this information?

My understanding was that the vaccines delivered spike protein signature of the virus to the body via a controlled delivery mechanism.
Wouldn't the acquired immune system get signatures of the virus in case of an infection as well?
 
May I know the source of this information?

My understanding was that the vaccines delivered spike protein signature of the virus to the body via a controlled delivery mechanism.
Wouldn't the acquired immune system get signatures of the virus in case of an infection as well?
I don't know about the reasons. This is what I have generally read. Also, given the sero surveys showed such high infection rates (40%), if the infections generated immunity was very strong, the second wave should not have been so deadly as it has turned out.

This is copied from cdc website -

Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have already recovered from COVID-19, it is possible—although rare—that you could be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 again. Learn more about why getting vaccinated is a safer way to build protection than getting infected.

----

Read this article too. It says in 20% people, antibodies were lost within a few months.
 
Last edited:
This might have been discussed before so if someone can summarise:
  • What is the difference in immunity that I develop from getting Corona and getting vaccinated? Vaccines are also mild inactivated virus.
  • If there is none, then isn't this wildfire spread of Corona in India a fast and painful path to herd immunity?
  • We all agree that figures are grossly underreported. More so, several times more people are getting infected but not tested and they are recovering. So more and more people are coming out of this with some immunity?
  • Do people who have had Corona, need to be vaccinated?
  • if this thing is moving in waves and the vaccine ensures that the next infection is a mild one, then we all agree that Corona will hopefully become another common cold or pneumonia which also kills several thousand every year. So how long before we reach that stage?

PS: How long before people start claiming elections and Kumbh was a master stroke surgical strike to build herd immunity?

1) Only Covaxin and another vaccine which is currently in trials by a French company are the only 'inactivated virus' vaccines. Other vaccines are using a newer approach in which they mimic the virus by using the same spike proteins the virus uses to initiate an immunity response. It is being believed that the 'inactivated virus' vaccines will be more successful against the mutations. Immunity developed from getting CoVID depends on how severe your infection was. I think only Singapore has done a long term trial on this and they found immunity lasting even upto 10 months in some patients while only 3 months in others.
So basically, as we get newer vaccines with more data, we will be able to predict the length of immunity from vaccines with more accuracy whereas immunity from getting the disease will always be a hit or a miss.

2)Herd immunity is somewhat of a dream. With new mutations which have immune escape already coming out, chances of reinfection from a different strain and even the same strain will always be there. We will continue these waves, but we can reduce the intensity of these waves by using vaccines during the 'lull' periods.

3)Yes, recoveries are high and mild cases are also high. But our very weak medical infrastructure and the very high population means that many lives which could have been saved will be lost. Unfortunately this has been the same for a long time now.

4) People who have had Corona should also take the vaccine because of the reasons mentioned above i.e. we are not certain about how long immunity lasts from getting the disease.

5) Everyone is wishing that this becomes an endemic disease from the pandemic it is now. I have no idea how long before that happens. I think it all depends on the mutations it undergoes.
 
People who have had Corona should also take the vaccine because of the reasons mentioned above i.e. we are not certain about how long immunity lasts from getting the disease.
I'd request any references to actual medical literature which says vaccines provides a longer immunity than an infection itself.

If the choice is between getting the vaccine or infection, the answer is 100% vaccines, any day. But, I see this point of people who despite their best efforts contracted the disease also being pushed to vaccinate ASAP. Why?

I am not saying that they shouldn't get vaccinated, just that we need to atleast look at clinical trial data or published papers before we amplify this message.

It is being believed that the 'inactivated virus' vaccines will be more successful against the mutations.
immunity from getting the disease will always be a hit or a miss.
IMO these are contradictory to each other, if the body is able to mount a successful immune response, then the dead virus lingers in the body for a while. This is similar to a inactivated virus.

IMO, vaccines provide an advantage compared to the infection in that they can be updated to fight against a newer strain, like in the case of mRNA, but that would require updated booster doses, like the ones we get for Influenza each year. The present vaccine may or may not offer any respite from newer strains.

P. S. My knowledge on this is miniscule, I could be absolutely wrong.
 
IMO the vaccine makes no sense for people like me who are under the age of 45 with no co-morbidities.
I have a healthy diet and get enough of sun and exercise daily, plus I got COVID already and didn't even know I had it.
Not an anti-vaxxer or anything but going by the posts on r/covidvaccinated some of the side effects seem worse than the disease itself so I'm going to steer clear until a few billion are vaxxed already or until enough data is out in the next few years.


 
This might have been discussed before so if someone can summarise:
  • What is the difference in immunity that I develop from getting Corona and getting vaccinated? Vaccines are also mild inactivated virus.
  • If there is none, then isn't this wildfire spread of Corona in India a fast and painful path to herd immunity?
  • We all agree that figures are grossly underreported. More so, several times more people are getting infected but not tested and they are recovering. So more and more people are coming out of this with some immunity?
  • Do people who have had Corona, need to be vaccinated?
  • if this thing is moving in waves and the vaccine ensures that the next infection is a mild one, then we all agree that Corona will hopefully become another common cold or pneumonia which also kills several thousand every year. So how long before we reach that stage?

PS: How long before people start claiming elections and Kumbh was a master stroke surgical strike to build herd immunity?
Cannot summarize all but I'll answer your questions @Renegade.

1. My Dad tested +ve for COVID back in December, he had all the symptoms and for 20 days when I was taking care of him, I have seen what this weird disease can do. He was having Cold, Cough (Lasted for 4 days and it was 24x7), Upset Stomach, Pain in legs, Headache, Fever, Loss of Taste and Smell, Hallucinations too (Yeah you read it right). He lost more than 15KG weight and add to that, the Anti-biotics do even more damage.
One good thing was that he does not have any Sugar, High BP, Chronic diseases etc. and also the infection did not spread in Lungs or Liver (This one is worst and recovery is less than 5%). There cannot be shortage of oxygen as we live in a Forest area in Himachal (Its carbon -ve in my area).

Then me and my Mom got ourselves tested but we were asymptomatic (Zero Symptoms). Doctor told us that there is unlikely any chance of getting COVID again barring if we are careless and the Anti-gens in our body will last anywhere from 6 to 9 months. The Vaccine, makes your immune system think that it is under attack so the body starts doing prep work, it is like China is going to attack and we are presuming it. Before that itself, we will have our Army, Navy and Airforce ready for the battle or war. But yes, with first dose, you will feel feverish, headache, loss of taste for 2 to 3 days.

2. In India, herd immunity is the only way forward, we are at 135 to 140 Crores and no way we all can be vaccinated in the next 10 years too, given at the pace we are doing it right now. If you recall Italy, the Doctors had to make the tough decision, on whom to save and whom to let go but it was done with tactics like if they let go of a person, how much tragic it will be for the Family and also for the Country. Right now, their total population has been reduced by 15 to 18 percent in a Year.

3. Under-reporting is very common across the Globe, two reasons. First is to avoid panic within the country and Second is to pose a rosy picture in front of the world or hide the failure or lack of farsightedness.

4. I did not get myself vaccinated but my Mom and Dad did. Now this is on you, if you think that it will help, there is no need to have an extra shield or armor (sort of). But do not stop practicing precaution and Social Distancing. This is a very debatable topic, I am against it as I had COVID and my body self developed the immunity or was so strong that did not let anything happen to itself but then I don't have to be a Superman either and know the boundaries within which a Human body operates or works. There is a limit to which you can push.

5. Back in Early 1900's, I think before WW1, Spanish Flu wiped 60 percent of Europe and almost finished Spain. Researchers says that it was the same disease and was gone in 2 to 3 years. Almost 100 years later we are at the same stage but back then people would listen, today, people do not. So in my opinion, this is going to stay for 3 to 4 more years and cause even more damage to many countries. I don't know but I still think that China has a cure to this disease, either they are controlling the media (which is not possible to do at 100%, because there should be leak somewhere), or they wiped this plague of a disease completely within 15 months to 18 months.
 
I'd request any references to actual medical literature which says vaccines provides a longer immunity than an infection itself.

It's very simple. Multiple studies have showed that the length of time, antibodies or immunity last in a person who got CoVID is different for everyone (ranging from 3-10 months according to a singapore study. Please search for it on google, you will find it easily.)That is because it depends on multiple factors including virus load and severity of disease that you faced.
With a vaccine, one can predict more accurately the time your immunity is gonna last.

Link to article about the Singapore study - https://m.timesofindia.com/india/co...erity-says-study/amp_articleshow/81665102.cms
 
COVID-19: Pfizer boss says people may need additional vaccines beyond their second dose

https://news.sky.com/story/people-w...ab-within-12-months-pfizer-boss-says-12276745

J&J’s double-dose Covid-19 vaccine draws differing expert reviews on US rollout with single-dose version already authorised

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com...id-19-vaccine-draws-differing-expert-reviews/

@psyph3r

Researchers in the United States have conducted a study demonstrating the effectiveness of first-generation vaccines at protecting against variants of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in individuals who have previously been infected with the virus.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...eutralize-SARS-CoV-2-variants-of-concern.aspx

The researchers, from Oregon Health & Science University in Portland, found that vaccination boosted pre-existing levels of antibodies against the viral spike protein 10-fold in the previously infected individuals, but not to levels that were significantly higher than those of previously uninfected vaccinees.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top