PC Peripherals System won't boot when using RAM at full speed

[DestGod]

Silicon lottery is rare in today's CPUs. All mid range CPUs will have no problems with 3600 speeds, it's only when you play with the timings and subtimings that the IMC gets stressed with. XMP will work on single channel as well, you'll get a performance uplift depending on the workload with dual channel but stability will not be compromised in both cases.

3200 Mt/s is stock speeds for the i5 12400F without XMP enabled. It can do over that with a B or Z series motherboard.

OP, I'd suggest changing the position of the RAM stick in different slots as mentioned above. I highly doubt if that would change much, and if it doesn't, RMAing the DIMM would be the only option.

Edit: if 3200 works fine, then I'd say leave it. Getting another 16GB stick would be ideal though.

 

[The_GarlicBread]

Buy the same stick. SAME COMPANY, SAME BRAND, SAME LATENCY 3600MHz. If you buy a 3200Mhz, Latency can be a bit different which will not allow XMP to work properly.
Also, if you plan to upgrade your CPU , both RAM can be used at 3600MHz.

3200 Mt/s is stock speeds for the i5 12400F without XMP enabled. It can do over that with a B or Z series motherboard.

With Z series Motherboard, you can OC above Memory Controller of CPU. But , I think Intel cut down on B_Motherboards for LGA1700 sockets. They can't OC above CPU Memory Controller speed.

 

[uzerdelhi]

Silicon lottery is rare in today's CPUs. All mid range CPUs will have no problems with 3600 speeds, it's only when you play with the timings and subtimings that the IMC gets stressed with. XMP will work on single channel as well, you'll get a performance uplift depending on the workload with dual channel but stability will not be compromised in both cases.

3200 Mt/s is stock speeds for the i5 12400F without XMP enabled. It can do over that with a B or Z series motherboard.

OP, I'd suggest changing the position of the RAM stick in different slots as mentioned above. I highly doubt if that would change much, and if it doesn't, RMAing the DIMM would be the only option.

Edit: if 3200 works fine, then I'd say leave it. Getting another 16GB stick would be ideal though.

With XMP disabled it actually goes higher, upto 3500mhz
Should I keep it at 3500mhz or go down to 3200mhz

Buy the same stick. SAME COMPANY, SAME BRAND, SAME LATENCY 3600MHz. If you buy a 3200Mhz, Latency can be a bit different which will not allow XMP to work properly.
Also, if you plan to upgrade your CPU , both RAM can be used at 3600MHz.

With Z series Motherboard, you can OC above Memory Controller of CPU. But , I think Intel cut down on B_Motherboards for LGA1700 sockets. They can't OC above CPU Memory Controller speed.

If I buy another 3600mhz it might allow both to go up to 3600mhz? Or be same as now?
What if I buy 3200mhz one and use that with current one with xmp disabled? Seems like I'm getting higher frequency with it disabled

 

[The_GarlicBread]

You sure it's going above 3200Mhz ?
Check in Task Manager --> Performance --> Memory Tab and note the Speed with XMP On vs XMP Off.

 

[uzerdelhi]

You sure it's going above 3200Mhz ?
Check in Task Manager --> Performance --> Memory Tab and note the Speed with XMP On vs XMP Off.

Yeah i set the frequency manually in the bios otherwise it would be like 2666 or something
It wouldn't go this high with XMP on when i set the frequency manually

 

[OMEGA44-XT]

I skipped most of the conversation.
Your CPU is limited to 3200Mhz RAM in DDR4 Configuration.
So, your RAM will only work up to 3200Mhz with XMP.

Also, you are on ASUS motherboard. XMP only works if you have inserted RAM in B1 and B2 Channel. I think you should insert RAM in B1 channel.

Another thing is : XMP works great with DUAL channel. Even if you use XMP in single channel, Dual Channel Configuration will be much faster. So , buy a 16GB 3600Mhz ( EXACTLY SAME MODEL ) RAM.

I have an i5 12400 with a B660 mobo (B660M DS3H AX). I can run RAM at 3600MHz XMP at 1:1 gear ratio. On H610, my CPU will be limited to 3200MHz as Intel doesn't allow XMP on H610.

 

[The_GarlicBread]

I don't think that's possible with your Configuration.
On your CPU, VCCSA is locked. In other words, you can't go above 3200Mhz in Gear1. So, maybe your CPU memory Controller is shifted to Gear2 ( running at half speed ) or whenever you set above 3200Mhz , maybe it gets changed to 3200Mhz own its own. Hard to say.
That's why I am asking to check in Task Manager and share the screenshots of speeds with XMP On vs XMP Off .

 

[OMEGA44-XT]

Do i buy a 3200MHz one or another 3600Mhz one?

View attachment 182579View attachment 182580
I'm running it at 3000Mhz because it won't boot over that.

The return window of the ram is already over, is this something corsair would RMA for?
Btw this is the RAM that i have

https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B08D6GKX3J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Can you check the CPU-z screenshot above and see if it tells if anything is faulty?

I'll recommend buying same stick again, so 3600MHz. I think mem. controller freq to RAM freq is what makes gear ratio 1:1. 3600MHz RAM means a DRAM freq of 1800MHz (that's how DDR works or something). My HWinfo SS shows the 1:1 gear ratio.

So 1:1 gear ratio is needed for best performance, hence most people don't recommend those 4400MHz or so RAM (also because the performance impact you might get is very small relative to price). For your SS, it is 1:1 indeed but at 3000MHz RAM freq instead of 3600MHz.

I don't think that's possible with your Configuration.
On your CPU, VCCSA is locked. In other words, you can't go above 3200Mhz in Gear1. So, maybe your CPU memory Controller is shifted to Gear2 ( running at half speed ) or whenever you set above 3200Mhz , maybe it get changed to 3200Mhz own its own. Hard to say.
That's why I am asking to check in Task Manager and share the screenshots of speeds with XMP On vs XMP Off .

More SS for reference:

Turns out simply swapping from slot 3 to slot 1 allowed it to run at 3200mhz (Won't boot above that)
The reason i had it in slot 3 in the first place is because slot 1 is too close to the CPU cooler
What should be my next course of action? Do i buy another 3200mhz one because it only goes up to 3200mhz in my system?

View attachment 182582View attachment 182583

I hope that you know there's an order to installing RAM sticks. Like my B660 mobo has 2 sticks on slot 2 & 4. For just 1 stick, it will be a specified slot (need to check mobo manual for this). Do read your manual for the correct slot for RAM in your mobo for single stick.

 

[The_GarlicBread]

Hmm, I seriously can't get how is 3600Mhz working in Gear 1 mode with i5 12400f. As far as I can tell, it can go to a maximum of 3500Mhz which intel considers as OC and thus can void your warranty on non-K CPUs.

Maybe Intel changed something after backlash from the community cause at the launch of 12th Gen, people were furious at how speeds above 3200Mhz were causing crashes.
Or maybe Motherboard Manufacturers unlocked them through BIOS update. ( MSI did that but had to roll back after Intel intervened .)
Or Maybe , you got a good CPU Memory Controller.

Anyway it's awesome that it's working at 3600Mhz.

 

[uzerdelhi]

I don't think that's possible with your Configuration.

On your CPU, VCCSA is locked. In other words, you can't go above 3200Mhz in Gear1. So, maybe your CPU memory Controller is shifted to Gear2 ( running at half speed ) or whenever you set above 3200Mhz , maybe it gets changed to 3200Mhz own its own. Hard to say.
That's why I am asking to check in Task Manager and share the screenshots of speeds with XMP On vs XMP Off .

I'll recommend buying same stick again, so 3600MHz. I think mem. controller freq to RAM freq is what makes gear ratio 1:1. 3600MHz RAM means a DRAM freq of 1800MHz (that's how DDR works or something). My HWinfo SS shows the 1:1 gear ratio.

So 1:1 gear ratio is needed for best performance, hence most people don't recommend those 4400MHz or so RAM (also because the performance impact you might get is very small relative to price). For your SS, it is 1:1 indeed but at 3000MHz RAM freq instead of 3600MHz.

View attachment 182586 View attachment 182587

More SS for reference:

View attachment 182588

I hope that you know there's an order to installing RAM sticks. Like my B660 mobo has 2 sticks on slot 2 & 4. For just 1 stick, it will be a specified slot (need to check mobo manual for this). Do read your manual for the correct slot for RAM in your mobo for single stick.

It won't even boot if if i turn on XMP with the same frequency, it would if i lower the frequency down to 3200mhz
Idk what this gear thing is, i don't see that setting on my motherboard bios anywhere, maybe it's under a different name or something

 

[The_GarlicBread]

Check the screenshot of Memory Tab of CPU-Z.

Here If your DRAM Frequency and Memory Controller Frequency are same , That means it's 1:1 ( GEAR 1 )
If Memory Controller Frequency is Half of DRAM Frequency , It's Gear 2.

For Better Performance , Gear 1 is usually recommended.
In most cases, Going above 3200Mhz in Intel 12th Gen non-K CPUs, Controller shifts to Gear 2 working at half speed and thus limiting performance.

Now XMP is official OC , so it doesn't void Warranty. That's why , with XMP, your Motherboard sets frequency to 3200Mhz ( Intel Official limit ). Going above that limit is possible without XMP, but if something's happens, it will void warranty. ( Intel Official Statement ).

Also, To go above 3200Mhz on 12th-gen non-K CPU, it's a random thing. You may go and may not go above it with B6xx-motherboard. ( Z-Series motherboard have official Support. )
It all depends on your CPU Memory Controller. Every CPU is build differently. I mean architecture is same but every build has a degree of randomness. Some people get a good CPU Controller and can go upto 4000MHz in Gear 1.

So, I would recommend you to set XMP1 or XMP2. The difference in 3200Mhz and 3600 MHz is minute. And buy a new stick with same model.

On a different note,

CL16 3200Mhz works nearly same as CL18 3600Mhz in most cases.

Note that CL16 is better than CL18 But 3600Mhz is better than 3200Mhz.

 

[OMEGA44-XT]

Hmm, I seriously can't get how is 3600Mhz working in Gear 1 mode with i5 12400f. As far as I can tell, it can go to a maximum of 3500Mhz which intel considers as OC and thus can void your warranty on non-K CPUs.

Maybe Intel changed something after backlash from the community cause at the launch of 12th Gen, people were furious at how speeds above 3200Mhz were causing crashes.
Or maybe Motherboard Manufacturers unlocked them through BIOS update. ( MSI did that but had to roll back after Intel intervened .)
Or Maybe , you got a good CPU Memory Controller.

Anyway it's awesome that it's working at 3600Mhz.

12th gen had XMP for B660 from beginning. I built my rig in late Feb 2022, so not far away from launch. From my research back then, a gear ratio of 1:1 is attainable in both Intel & AMD till 3600MHz RAM, not beyond that.

I don't think that's possible with your Configuration.



View attachment 182600View attachment 182601View attachment 182602

It won't even boot if if i turn on XMP with the same frequency, it would if i lower the frequency down to 3200mhz
Idk what this gear thing is, i don't see that setting on my motherboard bios anywhere, maybe it's under a different name or something

Yes, Asus might have labelled it differently. I have gear ratio option as 1:1 & auto, I think on my Gigabyte.

I hope you checked the correct slot for RAM installation in your mobo manual.

If it is not the slot issue, it might be RAM issue IMO. I can't give that statement with 100% certainity but that is what I think the most probable cause would be. Anyways, you were planning for a 2nd stick later. Get that 2nd 16GB 3600MHz stick now. Put it in correct slots as per manual & see if it works. Try with single sticks as well. If current RAM is the issue, request RMA based on the same observation (new RAM of same company is working with XMP but old RAM stick is not).

 

[nRiTeCh]

Lol. this Gear thing is something new around. I first thought where to look for the usual gear/setting icon to configure the stuff.

 

[The_GarlicBread]

12th gen had XMP for B660 from beginning. I built my rig in late Feb 2022, so not far away from launch. From my research back then, a gear ratio of 1:1 is attainable in both Intel & AMD till 3600MHz RAM, not beyond that.

Yeah, XMP has always been present but it's limited to 3200MHz. You can check everywhere, on reddit , LTT forums etc. Many people had trouble with going beyond 3200Mhz on non-K 12th Gen Intel CPU with B_Motherboards. Some could go up to 4000Mhz while others were limited to 3200Mhz.
It really depends on your CPU and what type of memory controller you get.

Lol. this Gear thing is something new around. I first thought where to look for the usual gear/setting icon to configure the stuff.

Hope I was able to explain it a little bit..

 

[OMEGA44-XT]

Yeah, XMP has always been present but it's limited to 3200MHz. You can check everywhere, on reddit , LTT forums etc. Many people had trouble with going beyond 3200Mhz on non-K 12th Gen Intel CPU with B_Motherboards. Some could go up to 4000Mhz while others were limited to 3200Mhz.
It really depends on your CPU and what type of memory controller you get.

Hope I was able to explain it a little bit..

Strange indeed. Did see certain threads on Reddit now, for some BIOS update solved it. Anyways, worked fine for me since the beginning.

This is what Intel markets:

 

[The_GarlicBread]

So, The gist is :

You can overlock RAM in B660 Motherboards. It's supported by intel. BUT INTEL has artificially locked non-K SKU by limiting VCCSA Voltage.
Now, Higher clock speed require more voltage. But Voltage have been locked. So, You have to see for yourself how much more can you go in that voltage. ( Just opposite of GPU undervolting. )
For some, it works even upto 4000 MHz ( Voids Warranty ) while other are limited to 3600Mhz and some are at 3200Mhz.

It's like saying " YEAH , you can eat ramen but you can only use hands .". Intel being Intel. That's why most prefer AMD these days.

Thanks for the discussion "Minato-San"..

 

[n1r0]

CL16 3200Mhz works nearly same as CL18 3600Mhz in most cases.

Note that CL16 is better than CL18 But 3600Mhz is better than 3200Mhz.

Not quite. The CL number represents latency in terms of clock cycles, so the actual duration depends on the RAM frequency. 3200 will need 16 clock cycles to get ready to transfer data, while 3600 will require 18 clock cycles. However, 1 clock cycle @ 3200 is a bit longer than 1 clock cycle @ 3600

If you do the math you'll see that 16/3200 = 18/3600
So their first word latency is equal, because at higher frequency, the cycles complete faster.

But higher frequency gives you more data transfer, so since latency is same, 3600 will be overall faster than 3200

That said, not every game/application benefits from fast memory. You're most likely better off spending it on a better CPU for noticeable gains.

 

[OMEGA44-XT]

Not quite. The CL number represents latency in terms of clock cycles, so the actual duration depends on the RAM frequency. 3200 will need 16 clock cycles to get ready to transfer data, while 3600 will require 18 clock cycles. However, 1 clock cycle @ 3200 is a bit longer than 1 clock cycle @ 3600

If you do the math you'll see that 16/3200 = 18/3600
So their first word latency is equal, because at higher frequency, the cycles complete faster.

But higher frequency gives you more data transfer, so since latency is same, 3600 will be overall faster than 3200

That said, not every game/application benefits from fast memory. You're most likely better off spending it on a better CPU for noticeable gains.

Just more data

3200MHz CL14 is considered one of the fastest DDR4 RAM, but expensive. Now even 3600MHz CL14 exists, but the overall performance gain is small, so not worth the money.

 

[The_GarlicBread]

Not quite. The CL number represents latency in terms of clock cycles, so the actual duration depends on the RAM frequency. 3200 will need 16 clock cycles to get ready to transfer data, while 3600 will require 18 clock cycles. However, 1 clock cycle @ 3200 is a bit longer than 1 clock cycle @ 3600

Sry, I wrote in haste.

On a different note,
CL16 3200Mhz works nearly same as CL18 3600Mhz in most cases.
Note that CL16 is better than CL18 But 3600Mhz is better than 3200Mhz.

By " works nearly same " I meant in terms of performance.
On Intel platforms, FCLK is limited to 1GHz in non-K processors. And Memory Clock works best in sync with FCLK on RYZEN CPUs. If un-sync , will cause huge latency differences.

So, Memory Clock of 3600MHz with CL18 will NOT provide any benefit over 3200 MHz with CL16 ON INTEL PLATFORMS ( CAUSE FCLK IS LIMITED TO 1GHz and on Intel this sync doesn't even matter.).

While on Ryzen Platforms FCLK is much more ( around 1800Mhz and can even be OC ). Here, as the real memory clock of 3600Mhz is 1800Mhz ( Double Data Rate ), both FCLK and Memory clock will be in sync, providing better performance with 3600 MHz CL18 than 3200 MHz CL16.

That's what I meant. On Intel, go for better latency than better clock speed. On Ryzen, Go for better clock speed.

 

[DestGod]

Sry, I wrote in haste.


By " works nearly same " I meant in terms of performance.
On Intel platforms, FCLK is limited to 1GHz in non-K processors. And Memory Clock works best in sync with FCLK on RYZEN CPUs. If un-sync , will cause huge latency differences.

So, Memory Clock of 3600MHz with CL18 will NOT provide any benefit over 3200 MHz with CL16 ON INTEL PLATFORMS ( CAUSE FCLK IS LIMITED TO 1GHz and on Intel this sync doesn't even matter.).

While on Ryzen Platforms FCLK is much more ( around 1800Mhz and can even be OC ). Here, as the real memory clock of 3600Mhz is 1800Mhz ( Double Data Rate ), both FCLK and Memory clock will be in sync, providing better performance with 3600 MHz CL18 than 3200 MHz CL16.

That's what I meant. On Intel, go for better latency than better clock speed. On Ryzen, Go for better clock speed.

This is where that phrase "Intel CPUs don't care about ram" sprung from. On AMD, the FCLK tuning was applied to the Infinity Fabric on the cache as well, which was why AMD insisted on a 1:1 ratio with DRAM frequency for optimum performance.