Team anna's new campaign Ban Congress (Your vote needed)

[mjumrani]

I don't know why I have a feeling that Rahul Gandhi can be the only one to change the system.

He is a Gandhi and his party has no choice but to support him. His mother will support him too.

The point about Team Anna being clean is still debatable according to me. All what he is doing has a bad political stench to it.

Also if congress and BJP are not in power then who will be? You must have noticed how even national parties bend over backwards for their allies and we can have nothing but a coalition at the moment, its going to be a big mess.

If you look at the options we have in political parties, congress is still the lesser of all the evils. No individual candidate has enough resourses to try and beat them.

Just an opinion

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[Compiler]

I don't know why I have a feeling that Rahul Gandhi can be the only one to change the system.

He is a Gandhi and his party has no choice but to support him. His mother will support him too.

The point about Team Anna being clean is still debatable according to me. All what he is doing has a bad political stench to it.

Also if congress and BJP are not in power then who will be? You must have noticed how even national parties bend over backwards for their allies and we can have nothing but a coalition at the moment, its going to be a big mess.

If you look at the options we have in political parties, congress is still the lesser of all the evils. No individual candidate has enough resourses to try and beat them.

Just an opinion

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There is very simple answer to all your queries.

Team anna were initially against corruption.

They approach ruling party(congress) to do action against it.

ruling party(congress) didn't do any thing beside the false promise (The same trend is been followed by ruling parties since 42 years.)

So they made voice against ruling party(congress) too.

you may substitute any party name in ruling party(for sake) the result would be the same.
I dont understand where did they make mistake?

If you have better alternative to fight against corruption then please share.

 

[Hacker]

If you look at the options we have in political parties, congress is still the lesser of all the evils.

What ???? Most of the major multi crore scams take place when Congress is in power.

 

[Superbad]

i think mjumrani is a congress fanboy. no point debating in that

 

[Gannu]

No individual candidate has enough resourses to try and beat them.

Modi FTW!

*runs and hides*

 

[mjumrani]

I just dont see anyone in BJP who might be good enough to run the country. They are very Hindu Centric.

Like I had mentioned, the only person who seems capable enough to me is Rahul Gandhi. Thats all...

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[Superbad]

I just dont see anyone in BJP who might be good enough to run the country. They are very Hindu Centric.

Like I had mentioned, the only person who seems capable enough to me is Rahul Gandhi. Thats all...
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so you think in all the states where bjp is ruling the minority population is dwindling ? :S

 

[mjumrani]

I meant to say was BJP policies generally benifit hindus more. And i think they should be equal.

I think that we need to resolve poverty. Most people in this country are illiterate and stupid.

I mean, look at the stupid OBC quota. People should be treated as Indian nationals and not be divided based on caste. But that is even a bigger dream than wiping out corruption.

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[Superbad]

I meant to say was BJP policies generally benifit hindus more. And i think they should be equal.

anything to prove upon that ?

or your statements CTRL +C and CTRL+V of digvijay singh?

I mean, look at the stupid OBC quota. People should be treated as Indian nationals and not be divided based on caste. But that is even a bigger dream than wiping out corruption.

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the problem was not the quota per say but the abuse of the quota.

all castes wanted their pie in the quota which actually made giving a quota worthless.

quota system in all fairness should have been based purely on economic terms

 

[Compiler]

Most people in this country are illiterate and stupid.

^^^Even Worst than Digvijay....

 

[Lord Nemesis]

Choosing between Congress or BJP is like going to hell and choosing between the options of being deep fried in oil or being roasted on the grill. No matter how much you try to choose the less painful of the two, it doesn't change the fact that you are gonna get cooked. At the end of day voting for the other party is like some one frying in oil deciding that roasting on the grill would be better than their present condition. But after experiencing that, he would go back to the oil, then the next time he may decide that roasting is better. The same way people may vote for BJP hoping that something would change, but when they see BJP's corruption for 5 years, they would go back to congress. then after seeing congress corruption, they would go to BJP once more and so it will go on and on.

If BJP were so righteous, then why is it that they got into power and lost it again? If Anna Hazare thinks that not voting for Congress is a solution, then why is it that the Lokpal bill didn't materialize when BJP was in power. No matter which party you vote for, people are still going to end up with a raw deal. There simply is no political solution for corruption. Even putting together a strong lokpal is not going to help much except penalize the big fish.

If our entire population is a tree, then corruption is a poison that flows from the roots of the tree. The politicians are the plump fruit filled to the brim with poison. To an observer the poisonous fruit may be the most visible part and the rest of the tree may chide the fruit for being poisonous, but in fact the poison is in all parts of the tree. Simply cutting way a few fruit is not going to make the tree any less poisonous. the poison supply has to be purged at the roots (The common man). Fighting corruption has to start from self. All the people's slogans against the govt or a political party mean nothing if they are still going to bribe a govt office babu to get work done or bribe a traffic police to not seize their license when they violated a traffic rule or using every possible means to skimp on taxes.

 

[mjumrani]

anything to prove upon that ?

or your statements CTRL +C and CTRL+V of digvijay singh?

Nah, my dad and uncles say so

the problem was not the quota per say but the abuse of the quota.

all castes wanted their pie in the quota which actually made giving a quota worthless.

quota system in all fairness should have been based purely on economic terms

Totally agree on that.
@nemesis Well said mate...

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[blr_p]

Choosing between Congress or BJP is like going to hell and choosing between the options of being deep fried in oil or being roasted on the grill. No matter how much you try to choose the less painful of the two, it doesn't change the fact that you are gonna get cooked. At the end of day voting for the other party is like some one frying in oil deciding that roasting on the grill would be better than their present condition. But after experiencing that, he would go back to the oil, then the next time he may decide that roasting is better. The same way people may vote for BJP hoping that something would change, but when they see BJP's corruption for 5 years, they would go back to congress. then after seeing congress corruption, they would go to BJP once more and so it will go on and on.

Hence a strong lokpal will gradually elliminate corruption. I don't think TA is under any illusions that BJP is better. BJP is being opportunistic like any other party in the same situation. Letters of support are not worth the paper they were written on.

There simply is no political solution for corruption. Even putting together a strong lokpal is not going to help much except penalize the big fish.

That would be a big start, because to date AFAIK not a single elected official has ever been prosecuted. Lower down bureaucrats have been but it never goes above that. They're always the fall guys, the sacrficial lambs.

So, i would not say its not going to help much, it will change things for the better. Nobody expects miracles but steady progress over the years. Ten years from now should be better than today.

If our entire population is a tree, then corruption is a poison that flows from the roots of the tree. The politicians are the plump fruit filled to the brim with poison. To an observer the poisonous fruit may be the most visible part and the rest of the tree may chide the fruit for being poisonous, but in fact the poison is in all parts of the tree. Simply cutting way a few fruit is not going to make the tree any less poisonous. the poison supply has to be purged at the roots (The common man). Fighting corruption has to start from self. All the people's slogans against the govt or a political party mean nothing if they are still going to bribe a govt office babu to get work done or bribe a traffic police to not seize their license when they violated a traffic rule or using every possible means to skimp on taxes.

This is the liberal view, there is no solution here at all is there. If it has to begin with the common man, with the hundreds of millions that we have till when to make a change ? No, its much harder to change the nature of ppl than to have penalties for misdeeds.

Look at my state for instance, both CM, main opposition leader and his wife are facing charges. So which party am i to choose ? congress has not been indicted because they've not been in power in my state. Today we get to hear that these ppl face charges, yesterday we'd have heard nothing. The only reason CM of my state got toppled was BJP had to make a stance or be seen as no better than Congress. Now whether anybody will be prosecuted is an open question, its the same with the other scams as well.

And i'm still waiting to hear your reply to my post about how voting in India works. It would seem nobody made a complaint in that situation but there are more than two parties contesting a poll at any given time, isn't it. So how can you scale up a local poll to the state level let alone the national level ? There is no way to keep those acts of party generosity a secret. If the EC & cops are not doing anything are we to understand that they've been bought ? Can't be, the EC is quite respected and they've been no challenges to election results. What about the cops ?

So while that article portrays maybe even reinforces the general perception it leaves more questions unanswered.

 

[Compiler]

Choosing between Congress or BJP is like going to hell and choosing between the options of being deep fried in oil or being roasted on the grill. No matter how much you try to choose the less painful of the two, it doesn't change the fact that you are gonna get cooked. At the end of day voting for the other party is like some one frying in oil deciding that roasting on the grill would be better than their present condition. But after experiencing that, he would go back to the oil, then the next time he may decide that roasting is better. The same way people may vote for BJP hoping that something would change, but when they see BJP's corruption for 5 years, they would go back to congress. then after seeing congress corruption, they would go to BJP once more and so it will go on and on.

If BJP were so righteous, then why is it that they got into power and lost it again? If Anna Hazare thinks that not voting for Congress is a solution, then why is it that the Lokpal bill didn't materialize when BJP was in power. No matter which party you vote for, people are still going to end up with a raw deal. There simply is no political solution for corruption. Even putting together a strong lokpal is not going to help much except penalize the big fish.

If our entire population is a tree, then corruption is a poison that flows from the roots of the tree. The politicians are the plump fruit filled to the brim with poison. To an observer the poisonous fruit may be the most visible part and the rest of the tree may chide the fruit for being poisonous, but in fact the poison is in all parts of the tree. Simply cutting way a few fruit is not going to make the tree any less poisonous. the poison supply has to be purged at the roots (The common man). Fighting corruption has to start from self. All the people's slogans against the govt or a political party mean nothing if they are still going to bribe a govt office babu to get work done or bribe a traffic police to not seize their license when they violatre a traffic rule or using every possible means to skimp on taxes.

agree on most of the point but it is not giving any conclusion.

Should be just sit and watch the drama or should we go ahead and vote against ruling parties untill strong lokpal is approved.

In current scenario ,If you dont bribe then you will land up in big trouble and no one is going to help.

moreover They might file a false case against you .

Just try not to bribe traffic pandu when caught. i m damn sure you will be force to edit the post.

please Dont take it personally .

 

[asingh]

I doubt corruption can be removed by deleting the politicians and replacing them with honest ones. The way our election system works, tons of money is poured into the process. Most of this war-chest is accumulated during the 365 x 5 period when a party is in power. It is highly trickle up, with large grabs in between when ministerial level sanctions are mandatory. If the lower levels stop sending upwards it will dwindle out and the practice can cease. But lower level officers >>>>> ministers. So the nexus can never be broken. Sad but true. This bills and food fasts are going to do jack.

 

[NinByChoice]

[quote name='Lord Nemesis']Choosing between Congress or BJP is like going to hell and choosing between the options of being deep fried in oil or being roasted on the grill. No matter how much you try to choose the less painful of the two, it doesn't change the fact that you are gonna get cooked. At the end of day voting for the other party is like some one frying in oil deciding that roasting on the grill would be better than their present condition. But after experiencing that, he would go back to the oil, then the next time he may decide that roasting is better. The same way people may vote for BJP hoping that something would change, but when they see BJP's corruption for 5 years, they would go back to congress. then after seeing congress corruption, they would go to BJP once more and so it will go on and on.

Hence a strong lokpal will gradually elliminate corruption. I don't think TA is under any illusions that BJP is better. BJP is being opportunistic like any other party in the same situation. Letters of support are not worth the paper they were written on.

If BJP were so righteous, then why is it that they got into power and lost it again? If Anna Hazare thinks that not voting for Congress is a solution, then why is it that the Lokpal bill didn't materialize when BJP was in power. No matter which party you vote for, people are still going to end up with a raw deal. There simply is no political solution for corruption. Even putting together a strong lokpal is not going to help much except penalize the big fish.

That would be a big start, because to date AFAIK not a single elected official has ever been prosecuted. Lower down bureaucrats have been but it never goes above that. They're always the fall guys, the sacrficial lambs.

So, i would not say its not going to help much, it will change things for the better. Nobody expects miracles but steady progress over the years. Ten years from now should be better than today.

If our entire population is a tree, then corruption is a poison that flows from the roots of the tree. The politicians are the plump fruit filled to the brim with poison. To an observer the poisonous fruit may be the most visible part and the rest of the tree may chide the fruit for being poisonous, but in fact the poison is in all parts of the tree. Simply cutting way a few fruit is not going to make the tree any less poisonous. the poison supply has to be purged at the roots (The common man). Fighting corruption has to start from self. All the people's slogans against the govt or a political party mean nothing if they are still going to bribe a govt office babu to get work done or bribe a traffic police to not seize their license when they violated a traffic rule or using every possible means to skimp on taxes.

This is the liberal view, there is no solution here at all is there. If it has to begin with the common man, with the hundreds of millions that we have till when to make a change ? No, its much harder to change the nature of ppl than to have penalties for misdeeds.

Look at my state for instance, both CM, main opposition leader and his wife are facing charges. So which party am i to choose ? congress has not been indicted because they've not been in power in my state. Today we get to hear that these ppl face charges, yesterday we'd have heard nothing. The only reason CM of my state got toppled was BJP had to make a stance or be seen as no better than Congress. Now whether anybody will be prosecuted is an open question, its the same with the other scams as well.

And i'm still waiting to hear your reply to my post about how voting in India works. It would seem nobody made a complaint in that situation but there are more than two parties contesting a poll at any given time, isn't it. So how can you scale up a local poll to the state level let alone the national level ? There is no way to keep those acts of party generosity a secret. If the EC & cops are not doing anything are we to understand that they've been bought ? Can't be, the EC is quite respected and they've been no challenges to election results. What about the cops ?

So while that article portrays maybe even reinforces the general perception it leaves more questions unanswered.[/QUOTE]

Troll Troll Troll Sheep.
Have you any Posts?
Yes Saar! Yes Saar! (please note the bangalore style Saaaar, specially composed for blr_p)
3 Quotes full!

 

[Superbad]

There is a saying in my native language which says the one who guards the lake will taste the water.
So it is upto us to decide who guards the lake better with the water actually usable for the intended purposes.

 

[mjumrani]

OMG I'm so surprised

'Anna, Kejriwal autocratic, are politicising campaign' - Hindustan Times

 

[blr_p]

I doubt corruption can be removed by deleting the politicians and replacing them with honest ones..

That's not the goal, goal is to have a system that can tackle those that break laws. It acts a deterrent.

On element of dealing with the system is electoral reforms, thats a debate thats yet to happen.

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

Troll Troll Troll Sheep.
Have you any Posts?
Yes Saar! Yes Saar! (please note the bangalore style Saaaar, specially composed for blr_p)
3 Quotes full!

Why do you always poke your nose into this. Are you LN's secretary ?

I don't talk to minions.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

agree on most of the point but it is not giving any conclusion.

Should be just sit and watch the drama or should we go ahead and vote against ruling parties untill strong lokpal is approved.

In current scenario ,If you dont bribe then you will land up in big trouble and no one is going to help.

moreover They might file a false case against you .

Just try not to bribe traffic pandu when caught. i m damn sure you will be force to edit the post.

please Dont take it personally .

I am not saying I am against Lokpal bill itself. By all means let us have it, its sure as hell not going make any significant dent on corruption with its limited scope considering our Anti-corruption laws themselves could not do much at the lowest levels, but still I am all for it. But I am definitely against the Lokpal bill being framed on the whims and fancies of one man who is hell bent on getting his and only his version of the bill though the parliament by black mail or what ever means necessary.

I will also say that corruption will not vanish magically as soon you bring in the lokpal bill. If a police wala can book you under false charges for not giving him bribe, they can do so even after we get the lokpal bill. People are corrupt in their everyday life. They would gladly participate in a 'protest against corruption' as long as it is to punish someone else. however try to bring a bill that would punish their own mis-deeds and the very same people would protest in what ever means necessary to make it disappear. For instance if the govt even tries to bring about a bill that would allow the Income tax dept to file cases against all people who have been evading taxes whose outcome is severe jail term's and payment of dues with high interest rates and I am willing to bet that these very people who are currently protesting would ensure that such a thing will not happen because it affects them.

The concept that I tried to give there is the real and proper way to protest peacefully if you want to fight corruption. People these days don't have no sense of what a peaceful protest is. Its not someone sitting down for a fast while sipping glucose on the side and it is definitely not people wearing sun glasses and "I am Anna" caps and t-shirts and show off how they are fighting corruption in a non violent Gandhian manner while in their own life they make no effort to stop indulging in their own corrupt ways. The peaceful protest mantra of old was all about sacrifice. It was about individuals will to fight the wrongs of the system even at great sacrifice to self. Its about an individuals passion, not about following some else blindly.

Jagadish Chandra Bose, one of the greatest scientists (but hardly known to a few people) of our country protested against racial discrimination British rule. In those days Indian professors were paid only 2/3rd the salary of want a British professor used to get. Bose saw it as an unfair and discriminative practice. He decided he would protest, but he didn't gather together all the Indian professors and boycotted the classes. He didn't forcefully stop the professors from attending to their duties. He himself carried on his duties as a professor, but refused to take their pay check as long as he was paid in a discriminative fashion. He went like that for 3 years till the that practice was stopped.

Someone is truly passionate about fighting corruption, they would be ready to face what ever happens to them when they refuse to pay bribes or indulge in any form of corruption.

This is the liberal view, there is no solution here at all is there. If it has to begin with the common man, with the hundreds of millions that we have till when to make a change ? No, its much harder to change the nature of ppl than to have penalties for misdeeds.

What makes you think that the people would allow laws that would punish their own mis-deeds. if people can use their power to forcefully get bills passed they can just as well use their power to prevent bills from getting passed. Considering people are corrupt why would they have a change of heart if they can stop any law from touching them. If a murderer has power to stop the law from punishing him, would be ever hesitate about murdering someone? I am not saying the solution I gave is practical, but is the only way to stop corruption completely. Everything else is just wishful thinking. You cannot stop the corruption of a over 100 crore population just by punishing a few politicians. Rest assured that when its the turn of that 100 crore to answer for their corruption, they would not be so keen on answering.