Lord Nemesis said:
I am not saying I am against Lokpal bill itself. By all means let us have it, its sure as hell not going make any significant dent on corruption with its limited scope considering our Anti-corruption laws themselves could not do much at the lowest levels, but still I am all for it. But I am definitely against the Lokpal bill being framed on the whims and fancies of one man who is hell bent on getting his and only his version of the bill though the parliament by black mail or what ever means necessary.
I've come to view this as a pressure tactic and not the ultimate goal. The chances that his bill would survive unmodified is low and AH knows it.
The many Lokpals before the standing committee
The Lokpal we will finally get
Aruna's NCPRI ideas extend on JLP's and might make them more practical through individual legislations for different areas. Much more scope to specialise. There's more bills to pass and it will take longer but ultimately would be better than just one.
Lord Nemesis said:
I will also say that corruption will not vanish magically as soon you bring in the lokpal bill. If a police wala can book you under false charges for not giving him bribe, they can do so even after we get the lokpal bill. People are corrupt in their everyday life. They would gladly participate in a 'protest against corruption' as long as it is to punish someone else. however try to bring a bill that would punish their own mis-deeds and the very same people would protest in what ever means necessary to make it disappear. For instance if the govt even tries to bring about a bill that would allow the Income tax dept to file cases against all people who have been evading taxes whose outcome is severe jail term's and payment of dues with high interest rates and I am willing to bet that these very people who are currently protesting would ensure that such a thing will not happen because it affects them.
You bring up the bent cop. All it takes is one person that won't do it and go all the way. The same applies to other public servants. Whisltleblower protection means lower downs can out plots whereas in the past they would have to be quiet. You will have more tools to tackle these issues which do not exist today.
The common man would be hard pressed to get away with anything approaching what the big wigs can. The point being there are already plenty of laws to bring the common man to justice. Its the perception that the powerful get away more often is whats driving support here. How many elected officials were ever prosecuted since independence, have asked this question in many places and have yet to get an answer.
The other thing is you take a system where corruption goes unpunished at the top and it spreads downwards and across society. What happens in a society where its harder to do that at the top ? What changes will that cause downwards and across society. Inevitably corruption will become more subtle and evolve but will it be as widespread as it is today. Ten years from now will India still be in the same position in the world corruption index.
Lord Nemesis said:
The concept that I tried to give there is the real and proper way to protest peacefully if you want to fight corruption. People these days don't have no sense of what a peaceful protest is. Its not someone sitting down for a fast while sipping glucose on the side and it is definitely not people wearing sun glasses and "I am Anna" caps and t-shirts and show off how they are fighting corruption in a non violent Gandhian manner while in their own life they make no effort to stop indulging in their own corrupt ways. The peaceful protest mantra of old was all about sacrifice. It was about individuals will to fight the wrongs of the system even at great sacrifice to self. Its about an individuals passion, not about following some else blindly.
The tactic used was narrow rhetoric to create an impact and polarise. Yeah, its alienating at first but the climbdown after defused it. In the end what matters is if any bill is passed it will go through the usual procedure, through consensus and support in both houses. So AH's role here would have been in raising awareness.
Two ppl that i would credit in helping me see thorugh this facade are Dhirubai Sheth & Dipankar Gupta. Former's a prof in politcs and the other in sociology. Good shows on LS TV, without any spice and like college lectures. The academic bent here defnitely goes to town more than what you see on the regular news shows.
Lord Nemesis said:
Jagadish Chandra Bose, one of the greatest scientists (but hardly known to a few people) of our country protested against racial discrimination British rule. In those days Indian professors were paid only 2/3rd the salary of want a British professor used to get. Bose saw it as an unfair and discriminative practice. He decided he would protest, but he didn't gather together all the Indian professors and boycotted the classes. He didn't forcefully stop the professors from attending to their duties. He himself carried on his duties as a professor, but refused to take their pay check as long as he was paid in a discriminative fashion. He went like that for 3 years till the that practice was stopped.
Thats one way, how RTI came about is another and this one is still playing out. From what i can tell those from Maha were more accustomed to AH given his earlier protests there, outside Maha, this was a new experience.
Lord Nemesis said:
Someone is truly passionate about fighting corruption, they would be ready to face what ever happens to them when they refuse to pay bribes or indulge in any form of corruption..
Maybe this movement is a start along that direction.
Lord Nemesis said:
What makes you think that the people would allow laws that would punish their own mis-deeds.
I've heard this said wrt to MLAs and questioning the rationale for passing such a bill in the first place. Its been introduced 7 times but never got passed. So the general impression is that MLA's will not pass laws that would punish their own misdeeds. Maybe this is partly the reason TA used such a strident approach, this isn't some new bill TA concocted out of the blue but an extension of one thats been in existence for four decades.
It remains to be seen whether the bill will be passed or not.
Lord Nemesis said:
if people can use their power to forcefully get bills passed they can just as well use their power to prevent bills from getting passed. Considering people are corrupt why would they have a change of heart if they can stop any law from touching them. If a murderer has power to stop the law from punishing him, would be ever hesitate about murdering someone? I am not saying the solution I gave is practical, but is the only way to stop corruption completely. Everything else is just wishful thinking. You cannot stop the corruption of a over 100 crore population just by punishing a few politicians. Rest assured that when its the turn of that 100 crore to answer for their corruption, they would not be so keen on answering.
We will never stop it completely, thats an absolute that hasn't been achieved anywhere. What exists in other countries is strict laws to curb and the US is the tightest when it comes to this. Ppl still get caught there so there is no question of ppl becoming more honest just that chances of getting away are harder, relatively speaking. Thats the best one can expect. Even if the bill is passed and we get a strong lokpal thats just one small step in the right direction.
hyeah: