The investments thread

@abhi1984
So here are some of queries
  1. How often do you re-balance your asset allocation?
  2. How often do you review your asset allocation?
  3. How many years of data do you take into account to determine correlation between asset classes? Do you give higher weight to recent data?
  4. Hypothetical situation: Say you assume a negative correlation between two assets, but they have a positive correlation in going down. It is still not time yet to review your allocations yet. Would you allow the entire time to lapse before acting or would you act immediately?
  5. When you invest directly in stocks, do you do just fundamental analysis or do you follow TA as well?
  6. When one does not invest in broad market funds, but in individual stocks, what would you suggest? Diversification (across sectors) or Concentration in stocks you understand?
  7. In a stock portfolio, do you use equal weight allocation or use different weights based on your conviction level?
  8. For a stock portfolio, how do you determine proper hedging? Even within the portfolio, stocks can move differently - some slowly, some quickly after a long consolidation, some almost never. Then comes the different weights in the portfolio. Do you determine beta of the portfolio against a common Index and then calculate correlation of another asset, say Gold ETF, against it?
  9. Do you use derivatives - as in shorting, buying puts etc.,? If you do, would you do it against the broad market or specific stocks in your portfolio? (If you had used them in 2008, it would be interesting to know)
  10. For a portfolio which has constant buys and sells, do you think calculated time-weighted returns gives a more realistic picture of returns? (Point to point could be extremely inaccurate due to cash inflows and outflows)
Wow so many doubts. First, I am a humble software engineer, why would you even ask such difficult questions :p
On a serious note, some of them can't be answered (clearly) even in pms. Reason is things are more discretionary than they appear on surface.
Lets see:
1,2, 4 - The rebalancing and re-look are more event driven than time driven. If there is an indication of say a big rate hike next time RBI announces its policy decision, there is no point in sitting for it to happen before I do something about it. By the time it happens, situation is already priced in, market has already moved. Re-look and re-balancing which you do then is merely a representation of something which is already there. Next series of movements are mainly buy side (read MFs, retirement schemes) which are supposed to be more conservative in nature coming into the market. They do move the price upwards and in your favour for profit.
Though obviously, risks are - one, event which are unpredictable, say a terrorist attack or two, it doesn't work out your way, RBI doesn't announces the big rate hike?
First, there is no way to predict the former and I certainly don't loose sleep over it.
Secondly, I deal in probabilities - never in absolutes - so while assessing say RBI announcement, I start off with a 50%-50%, with each news item - CPI figures, economist surveys, FOMC decision probabilities go in one direction or the other. When there is enough conviction (there is always a 10% negative chance) I re-balance my portfolio out (though mind you, with each news item the price is already moving away from the ideal point).
Lastly in case things don't work out even with careful planning, there is call needs to be made. Is the current reaction a whipsaw or a genuine response. Depending I might buy a smallish derivative position. There might even be time to look at my methodology at assessing those events (or that I might need an expert help)

3. Short answer is, recent has more weight age - just due to the volatility which is creeping in. Previous data will give a you narrower range to work with which is not true nowadays.

5. Answer to this question always ruffles many feathers. Let me ask you a question do you believe a stock makes a new high because it crossed a resistance or there was a MA cross-over? If you believe a stock will make a new high, does it matter if the BB or MACD hasn't crossed? Many fail to asses if the price did cross a support, why did it even reach the support at all? There must be something driving the price lower. And once, the support line is crossed, many stop orders which eventually become market orders drive the price down more...making support line a self fulfilling prophecy. That is not to say, TA doesn't work at all -- it does with a proper fundamental analysis (btw have you noticed, novice have much easier access to TA than FA tools?)

6,7,8 Sole reason, I prefer broad market cause I cant really be bothered about each companies reports, market studies, upcoming project etc. Just too much hassle and too many to handle. I do invest in pharma stocks but then those are more long term. Money added to them is something which I am prepared to loose (something like the 30-40% loss you said in your first post). It does go against hedging what I said earlier but then if you look at a long term charts -- pharma has given consistent returns in comparison to weather based stocks like IT, banks, insurance, telecom etc. So there is a conviction based investment.

9. I do sometimes. Specially when assessing situation for which I am unclear on the "time factor". A cheap cover might set you back by 2-3% but it is better safe than sorry. I was starting out in 2007, learning from someone. 2008 example I can give is: My mentor (an American) was convinced of the housing bubble back in 2006 but then if he tried to short the market he would have been wiped out (unless of course he had money like John Paulson did). So he purchased a long term cover, 2009 for cheap while maintaining his current portfolio. He even bought an option on real negative interest rates (betting Feds will drop the rates to 0% while there be an existing inflation), banks weren't ready to sell him those but eventually they agreed. He dint really make humongous returns to be touted in books, he did end the year in 2 digit positive return (read above 50%)

10. Well, a CFA question. Time weighted returns are a industry standard, incorrect or correct, for the reasons you gave is really beyond me.

The basic building block I work off is, investing works by looking what you can loose rather than what you can earn. If you do the reverse, look only at returns then you are no better than a gambler.

@avi - if the post is a bouncer, its because you asked for it :p
 
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I thought BSE was a Govt body :-/

But I am not able to understand why do we have NSE & other stock exchanges also.

And also, lets say I find a company and if I want to buy shares, do I have to go with NSE or BSE?
 
I thought BSE was a Govt body :-/

But I am not able to understand why do we have NSE & other stock exchanges also.

And also, lets say I find a company and if I want to buy shares, do I have to go with NSE or BSE?
I have been waiting for @esanthosh to come up with follow up questions if any. I think I might have said something incorrect :p

Exchange is basically a place to buy/sell securities (though what can be listed or not listed is driven by SEBI - the Govt. Body :) )
There are many reasons we have other stock exchanges - one of them being to drive competition, other being a place for every company to be listed -- if there was no BSE only NYSE (New York Stock Exchange) then Infy would have to wait years till they get listed to be traded.

To buy stocks you can go to Calculatta Stock Exchange or Magadh Stock Exchange or Hyderabad Stock Exchange too - the place where you can find the company listed, liquidity available (ie someone ready to sell you at a lower price) and fees are low.
 
But I don't understand what advantage it gives me between these different stock exchanges. Price of a share of some company would be same across all exchanges? Then what kind of competetion exists between these exchanges? Like NSE or BSE. And also why everyone mostly considers index of BSE because number of companies listed is more?
 
But I don't understand what advantage it gives me between these different stock exchanges. Price of a share of some company would be same across all exchanges? Then what kind of competetion exists between these exchanges? Like NSE or BSE. And also why everyone mostly considers index of BSE because number of companies listed is more?
BSE was started so as NSE doesn't have a monopoly.
Once it was formed there was competition in prices for listing and all.
Now even MCX SX another exchange also started but because of NSEL fiasco no one wants to touch this exchange untill old promoters exits.
Now regarding price of stock,if there was any difference easily one could have made millions.
For e.g a stock on Nse is at 300 and on BSE its on 303.A person could have easily bought at one exchange and sold on other simultaneously and made say 0.75% return on 1 trade.And with say 100 such trades in 100 days he would have made 75% return
pre tax and even 40% tax wouldhave made him earn 48% in 100 days and easily he could turn big shot.Though price difference exists but its not this wild and its hardly 0.1% and so.And it gets adjusted almost immediately.
Also a person cant sell stock on other exchange unless he has taken delivery else he is penalized.
 
But I don't understand what advantage it gives me between these different stock exchanges. Price of a share of some company would be same across all exchanges? Then what kind of competetion exists between these exchanges? Like NSE or BSE. And also why everyone mostly considers index of BSE because number of companies listed is more?
Sorry this might be a bit of a hyperbole but isn't that like saying why do we have different mobile operators within the same area? An argument could be made that one has better service over the other in certain areas but if we are to talk about city center - they do operate on similar prices, provide similar coverage? What advantage does it give people over another operator - one of them is monopoly, another is price competition - we wouldn't have seen free incoming if not for a newer player like Reliance gave it away, better services, newer packages etc.
While price of a share is similar there are more things to look out for - brokerage (fees for buying/selling) you need to pay, liquidity they provide (you need to sell 10000 shares of AVI Corp :p there needs to be someone who will buy it from you and vice-versa, right? ) etc.
BSE is the oldest exchange in ASIA and 11th largest by market localisation. Every country's market is represented by one stock market - it gives a rather unified view of how things are going.
 
@esanthosh I think the last post might have been too much :p,. if you still have any queries let me know :D
I have been reading a lot and I have come across these following terms which I don't understand (& get confused) even after wiki and investopedia:

Debt fund
Index fund
Equity Diversified Funds
Balanced Fund
SIP
ETF
Gold ETF
Gold Mutual funds
Derivatives
F&O trading
FMP

Can anyone give me some simple explanation? If that is too much, then I will start asking my specific doubts with these terms, but I think it's better try to understand before I confuse myself too much :p

Regarding my first query, I thank everyone who have replied. There are many jargons & still I am trying to understand. As of now, I have kept 3L in 6 months FD.
Assuming you understand what a fund is, here goes some explanations (might not differ from investopedia):

Debt fund - It is a fund which invests in fixed income securities. The name "fixed income" implies that you get fixed returns :p Like say 1k invested in a government bond which pays you 8% in 1 yr. So you will get 1,080 after 1 yr, no more no less. The reason people invest in a debt fund is that there are government bonds or corporate bonds which are not open to public rather only to people with fat wallets. With fixed returns these are the most risk averse of the funds.

Index fund - This will be a difficult to understand - An index is used to measure the change in a market. The measurement is done by pooling together equities based on a criteria (say market capitalisation) and then using a proprietary formula to derive a readable figure. Example BSE Sensex is a 30 stock index ie the value of sensex is based on the trading prices of its constituent companies.
An index fund builds a portfolio which tracks the index ie ideally when Sensex has gone up by 10%, so will the index fund based on Sensex (generally speaking).
IMO, index funds are the best way to get market exposure if you dont understand stocks. These are passive instruments and (most of the times) give you similar returns as buying Sensex/NSE. I have yet to come across a fund which is as consistent (the stressed upon word) as an index fund.

Equity Diversified Funds - These invest in a host of only equities ie stocks aiming to spread out the risk. Basically these are anti of specialised funds. example say there is an infra fund which invests only in infra related companies, so the risk of failure is from only one given sector . Whereas a diversified fund will invest in automobiles, infra, biotech, medicine etc etc just to minimise the risk. These are supposed to be one of the most actively managed funds as the allocations might change quickly. Today they might like infra and increase it to 50%, tomorrow might jump ship to biotech....

Balanced Fund - A balanced fund follows what I have talked about in this thread. An asset allocation which is made of stocks and bonds. A balanced fund supposedly gives you best risk to reward ratio. Though during a boom, like the current Sensex highs it might not be giving you better returns but in doom times you might not loose as much. Then again, structuring plays a big role - too much bond in portoflio is similar to Debt fund and too much equities is no better than an Equity fund.

SIP - Systematic Investment plan , think of this like the employer pension plan wherein you pay a fixed EMI (not loans :p ) to your PF office. Something similar could be constituted when investing in funds. You invest 1k each month to a particular fund.

ETF - Mutual funds are sold by companies which means buying/selling a unit comes with a cost, you pay management charges and in some cases there might even be as lock-in.

Instead, an exchange traded funds (ETFs) are funds which trade freely on an exchange. NIFTYBEES is an index fund or rather index ETF which is traded on NSE. You can freely buy/sell the units as you please, changes in the prices are indicative of the value of the fund. Though you will need to pay the brokerage charges whenever you buy and sell.

Gold ETF - Gold ETFs are again funds which invest in gold and all returns are dependent on golds price. If prices go up, they make profit else loss. Only thing is these are traded on exchanges freely.

Gold Mutual funds - See above. Only difference is they are constituted and controlled by a company and not traded on any exchanges.

Derivatives - This might be a heavy dose in this post. Short form - Derivatives are securities which derive its value from something else. Example: atta - It doesn't have a value on its own (for assumption's sake). The pricing is dependent heavily on prices of wheat (and prices of wheat are derived from fertilisers, seeds, water etc :p) This is the very basic example I can come up with.

F&O trading - This post is not enough or rather its better that you dont understand this aspect :)

FMP - Fixed maturity plan is a subset of debt fund. A debt fund like say LIQUIDBEES (another ETF) can run for 11 yrs now, a FMP will have a fixed tenure like say 12 months or 3 yrs. The biggest caveat here is, you cant take out the money (without heavy losses) before the tenure ends. You can ideally think of them like FDs just that you are going to pay some management fees too :p

As for zerodha, they are good. One of the first flat rate brokerage in India. Though until you are going to buy/sell heavily you wont really get much profit out of it.
 
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i want to get rid of my portfolio. should i wait till the elections are over or sell them off right now?

i have stocks from all the sectors (balanced portfolio) and therefore, never made any losses.
 
Do a systematic withdrawal if you are confused, because no matter what you choose there is a chance your decision might go wrong and this reduces the impact.
Divide the number of stocks in 2/3/4 parts and sell off each part at fixed intervals. If splitting in two parts, sell one half now and one half after election results are out.
 
^^ no i am not confused at all... i just want to close my trading account and wondering if i should wait for another month as the upcoming elections might have some positive effect on sensex. i don't follow sensex at all and so, wanted to know what's going to happen this time around from (experts) people who keep tab on elections and sensex.

i sold off 2/3 of my shares last year - with huge profits. and i won't make any losses even if i sell my remaining 1/3 shares right away.
 
Depends on why you invested in the first place

a) Have the stocks breached the level you thought they would reach? Then sell.
b) Are these long term buys? Like shares you want to pass onto your children? Then hold.
c) If you anticipate a fall, say due to a hung election verdict, then you can re-purchase them at a lower rate? Then sell.
(But remember the Capital Gains Tax you'll have to pay!)
 
^^ i am a long term investor so, i didn't have any pre-set levels or goals in mind. sensex will keep on going up and down, which affect short term investors. i am now getting bored of stock trading and want to close my demat account for couple of years.

regarding point 'c'... i don't follow sensex so, i cannot anticipate any rise or fall during elections... hence i posted this question here.
 
^^ no i am not confused at all... i just want to close my trading account and wondering if i should wait for another month as the upcoming elections might have some positive effect on sensex. i don't follow sensex at all and so, wanted to know what's going to happen this time around from (experts) people who keep tab on elections and sensex.

i sold off 2/3 of my shares last year - with huge profits. and i won't make any losses even if i sell my remaining 1/3 shares right away.
Bro none of us are really experts - rather just dabble in finance.
Frankly speaking if you already made huge profits and you still earn good (if not huge) profits by selling the 1/3 - not sure what your query is? Is it that post elections can you rake in more profits? If yes, @pr0ing 's assertion is correct - chances of getting it wrong far outweigh the getting it right. So sell half now and half elections.
 
I have about Rs.40000/- in liabilities in the form of insurance premiums. Generally I invest the remaining in PPF. This year I would like to keep investments in PPF to a minimum.

What do you guys suggest?
 
F&O trading - This post is not enough or rather its better that you dont understand this aspect :)

LOL. well said !!
I am no finance buff, but I had worked for a project for handling derivatives transations for a US bank.
And after 2/3 weeks of training I understood nothing about those Futures and Options - rather got confused more with the jargons like Call, Put, Long position, Short position blah blah !! :p :p
 
LOL. well said !!
I am no finance buff, but I had worked for a project for handling derivatives transations for a US bank.
And after 2/3 weeks of training I understood nothing about those Futures and Options - rather got confused more with the jargons like Call, Put, Long position, Short position blah blah !! :p :p
:) I dint really say this because people shouldn't learn about it.Just that these are no tools for an investor rather for primarily for traders -- people earn a living on a day-in, day out returns. As an investor you need to try and counteract with a fixed income/bond component in a long term..the time decay (loss of value over time) is built in an option which makes it difficult for it to be forming a part of investment portfolio.

That said, I do agree with you its complicated and some finance jargons can prove to be real bouncers. :p Hell look at my post at the top of this page..tell me you understand 100% of it :D
 
@avi - Nothing will give you better returns, both monetary and emotional, than doing something of your own with that money. I invest back all of my profits( what's left after my impromptu splurges) into my business. You can try your hand at things you are passionate about as IMO, that is one of the key aspects, at least for me, in a business. So even trading in stocks can be exciting if done with proper research and you find it to be invigorating for your grey cells.
Just wanted to highlight this post as I thought not much attention was paid to this one. When we talk about investing it comes down to FDs, stocks, and what not. And on top most of us "dream" of having a business. while the hard fact is that business is not for everyone, I think this should also be looked at from an investment perspective.
I had once invested over 75k with a friend in a restaurant . That thing really taught me lessons about the CMMi Levels :p The whole thing became quite successful and famous because of our cook -- the star performer. We conformed to all his demands - increased pay by over 200% in 2 yrs, got him a Galaxy phone and a Toshiba LED (yeah we got a bit cheapo on that one :p) The cook got a 15 days leave..and never returned. There was then a downhill and we lost considerable base and I was left with some black utensils as a collateral. A loss? Yep. Invigorating? You bet. Now at least I have a life lesson in operating restaurants if next 2008/Satyam knocks on a company near me :p
 
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