The Swastika, and the Nazi connection

[booo]

Also, lets not try to blame others for trying to erase our so called pride. Indian culture and traditions had little for an Intelligent and open minded person to be truly proud about. The more you dig into our past, the more you would be disgusted by it. It is thanks to our colonial rulers who forcefully erased many of our so called "cultural traditions" despite vehement protests that we can be proud to say that we no longer have sati (atleast).

IMO, culture and traditions should be listed into the scam/fraud list that we started in other thread. Along with religion.

But to note a point, even the colonial rulers had their own agenda when they forcefully changed some of the things.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

^^ I can't agree more. Religion was always a scam. People often fail to realize that having faith in God is not the same as being part of a religion with all its illogical fanaticism and moral corruption.

As for "culture" and "traditions", We should always try to learn from our past and there is nothing really wrong in retaining everything that is good about our culture and traditions (which I am afraid there is little). But then, people seem to always try to cling to all the bad things in the name of culture and traditions. Usually clinging to such things is a sign that those people don't have anything better to feel good about. People who have nothing to be proud in their present life take solace by talking about how great their caste, religion, culture, traditions etc.

India will keep on its self destructive path back to the stone age as long as people blindly cling to their stone age culture and traditions disregarding their moral appropriateness and validity in present age.

 

[singenaadam]

@Lord Nemesis : am not surprised that you find "very little good about our culture". That is Macaulay's effect.

I do not know what/where you have read about our culture/traditions, but pl. do make one final attempt before giving up. Since I am not an expert to give you/anyone guidance on this subject, you can decide where you wish to search.

Google is good friend and has made available many resources which otherwise would have been out of reach for most of us. One persoanl ex.: I was once searching for one specific word of MahaLakshmi Ashtakam and wanted a Telugu version, one of the websites that Google thre-up was University of Pennsylvania!
===================
We as a people/land/society do not have a specific religion. Hindu is a term coined by foreigners. Our phrase is "Sanatana Dharama". It is only a pointer to the way individuals conduct themselves in the society.

Ritual is just one aspect primary purpose of which is to create/facilitate a setting/atmosphere/ambiance where one can channel one's thoughts towards the Supreme. "Hindu" "religion" is the only one where you can say "I don't believe in god & most importantly, get away with it You can create your own god even. There are no rigid rules (we have 6 schools of philosophy, Vedanta being the most famous).

Whether people like it or not, other religions' heads like the pope actively push for conversions - using any means. That is the facet which I thoroughly detest.

I am not sure if you are aware, but "Dharma" does not have any conversion mechanism; as it allows anyone to believe/not believe anything they wish to. That is the reason the only country where Jews never got persecuted on this planet is India.

However, as in every place we do have bigots/fanatics. Assuming the same percentage of bigots/fraudsters across all countries, our huge population factor kicks-in and hence there seem to be so much more visible in India (esp. on TV, where unfortunately sensationalism & oneupmanship is the order of the day).

OT:
Problem with these kind of topics is that there is always a danger of them degenerating into name-calling/slandering. I do not wish that this ends up that way. We may disagree, so be it! So, I will not be posting anymore on this subject ( I will continue to read though ).

 

[mrnikhilsudo]

====================================
It is the misfortune of this land that our [sic]history books were written by either foreigners or communist Indians who wanted to erase any sense of pride for this country/religion from the school books.
====================================

In India, even before the colonial rulers, it was the Christian missionaries who saw the uses of the AIT, mainly to pit Dravidians and low-castes against the “Aryan invader” Brahmins and thus make them more amenable to conversion. Even then, they did not “concoct” anything, e.g. when Friedrich Max Müller wrote to his wife (as quoted in the lecture by Dr. Vinayachandra) that India was ripe for Christianization and that his own translation of the Rg-Veda would contribute to this by disenchanting the Rg-Veda.

Some more links : pl. read, understand & teach your kids/nephews/nieces/grandkids(!).
1. http://www.stephen-knapp.com/aryan_invasion_theory_the_final_nail_in_its_coffin.htm
2. http://arisebharat.com/2008/01/21/bbc-accepts-that-the-aryan-invasion-theory-is-flawed/
3. Death of AIT
4. Moralism & AIT
5. BBC admits AIT is false
6. Myth of AIT
7. New research debunks AIT
8. Research paper: http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0507714103v1
9. Motivations for AIT: http://www.iskcon.com/icj/6_1/6_1klostermaier.html

I think those are enough numbers of links to keep you busy

Just because there is a web page out there that you link, doesn't mean its conclusive and definitive proof. Btw, you are quite forgetting that the Moghuls ruled India for a long time before the Brits rules. Apparently you don't have a problem with forcible conversions to islam. No one needed to pit anyone against anyone else. The sturcture of our indian society itself made sure brahmins were pitted against the low caste.

As for sense of pride, India was always been a collection of princely states. It just collectively known as india.

 

[mrnikhilsudo]

^^ I can't agree more. Religion was always a scam. People often fail to realize that having faith in God is not the same as being part of a religion with all its illogical fanaticism and moral corruption.

As for "culture" and "traditions", We should always try to learn from our past and there is nothing really wrong in retaining everything that is good about our culture and traditions (which I am afraid there is little). But then, people seem to always try to cling to all the bad things in the name of culture and traditions. Usually clinging to such things is a sign that those people don't have anything better to feel good about. People who have nothing to be proud in their present life take solace by talking about how great their caste, religion, culture, traditions etc.

India will keep on its self destructive path back to the stone age as long as people blindly cling to their stone age culture and traditions disregarding their moral appropriateness and validity in present age.

I completely agree with you on your views of religion.

I realised a few years ago that the irony with Christianity is that Jesus never thought a religion, just a way of life. Peace. Unfortunately, as all religions take a route of destruction and intolerance so did this.

 

[realmo]

It would be better if Christianity was called Paulinism! Thanks you Paul(Saul)
People were never meant to worship Christ, he was supposed to reinforce belief in God for the people but thanks to Paul it got twisted.

And since the Christians follow Christ, the Muslims hate them as it is said that Christ and Mohammed had the same mission but in the end both parties, somehow ended up following 'their' respective messiahs/prophets.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

^^ That applies to only certain sects of Christianity. Protestants for instance do not consider Jesus as God but merely as the son of God with his own distinct individuality. They pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ. The conferring of Divinity status to Jesus Christ and rapid spread of Christianity in Europe was as with all regions purely politically motivated.

 

[realmo]

I am just stating what had happened as was recorded by the apocryphs and gospels and also Holger Kersten's books

 

[booo]

@Lord Nemesis : am not surprised that you find "very little good about our culture". That is Macaulay's effect.

I do not know what/where you have read about our culture/traditions, but pl. do make one final attempt before giving up. Since I am not an expert to give you/anyone guidance on this subject, you can decide where you wish to search.

Google is good friend and has made available many resources which otherwise would have been out of reach for most of us. One persoanl ex.: I was once searching for one specific word of MahaLakshmi Ashtakam and wanted a Telugu version, one of the websites that Google thre-up was University of Pennsylvania!
===================
We as a people/land/society do not have a specific religion. Hindu is a term coined by foreigners. Our phrase is "Sanatana Dharama". It is only a pointer to the way individuals conduct themselves in the society.

Ritual is just one aspect primary purpose of which is to create/facilitate a setting/atmosphere/ambiance where one can channel one's thoughts towards the Supreme. "Hindu" "religion" is the only one where you can say "I don't believe in god & most importantly, get away with it You can create your own god even. There are no rigid rules (we have 6 schools of philosophy, Vedanta being the most famous).

Whether people like it or not, other religions' heads like the pope actively push for conversions - using any means. That is the facet which I thoroughly detest.

I am not sure if you are aware, but "Dharma" does not have any conversion mechanism; as it allows anyone to believe/not believe anything they wish to. That is the reason the only country where Jews never got persecuted on this planet is India.

However, as in every place we do have bigots/fanatics. Assuming the same percentage of bigots/fraudsters across all countries, our huge population factor kicks-in and hence there seem to be so much more visible in India (esp. on TV, where unfortunately sensationalism & oneupmanship is the order of the day).

OT:
Problem with these kind of topics is that there is always a danger of them degenerating into name-calling/slandering. I do not wish that this ends up that way. We may disagree, so be it! So, I will not be posting anymore on this subject ( I will continue to read though ).

its simple you know, today if I say that you have to question everything and not follow some faith blindly. tomorrow people will start following me and start believing in ? symbol and then after few hundred years ? religion is born.

And about university of pennsylvania thing, its pretty normal since there are lot of hindu indians in US. White person in ISKCON temple doesnt make it great. it actually means that the person is dumb.

 

[asingh]

And about university of pennsylvania thing, its pretty normal since there are lot of hindu indians in US. White person in ISKCON temple doesnt make it great. it actually means that the person is dumb.

I went to the Delhi ISKCON 3 days back. My gosh..it is total marketing, shamelessly. Rich man's religion, you can easily say.

 

[Sasuke_Itachi]

Also, lets not try to blame others for trying to erase our so called pride. Indian culture and traditions had little for an Intelligent and open minded person to be truly proud about. The more you dig into our past, the more you would be disgusted by it. It is thanks to our colonial rulers who forcefully erased many of our so called "cultural traditions" despite vehement protests that we can be proud to say that we no longer have sati (atleast).

Sir do you have some examples for this?AFAIK they welcomed every new things.May be not the society as whole but the experts. Compared to rest of the world I think it was a good work.