Audio THX Certified sound systems - Rate them
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Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
THX is a paid certification, something like an MSCE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer). As most of us know, these kinds of certifications are worth diddly squat.
In order to even submit a component for THX certification, you pay Lucasfilms at least $15k for a set of proprietary specs, and then follow their process to have your component or susbsystem evaluated and certified. Certification does *not* imply that your certified component actually sounds good or is well-built, durable and reliable; it merely implies that Lucasfilms has provided a badge with 3 letters on it in return for the $15k+ that you forked over. Of course, you try to recover the $15k from the dumb****s who actually think that THX-certification is a badge of product-quality, and are willing to fork over more money for THX-certified products.
I own THX-certified equipment (Technics SA-TX50) as well as non-THX certified equipment from the same company (Technics SU-Z11), and I can state first-hand that there's no connection between sound quality and THX certification. For music, the 2-channel SU-Z11 beats the pants off the 5-channel SA-TX50 any day of the week. OTOH, if you have a reasonable-sized preview theatre for which you want 5-channel sound, then the THX-certified SA-TX50 is fair choice to obtain good SPL with the appropriate speakers. No guarantees on sound quality, but at 5 x 100W, it will be loud enough, for sure.
THX is a paid certification, something like an MSCE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer). As most of us know, these kinds of certifications are worth diddly squat.
In order to even submit a component for THX certification, you pay Lucasfilms at least $15k for a set of proprietary specs, and then follow their process to have your component or susbsystem evaluated and certified. Certification does *not* imply that your certified component actually sounds good or is well-built, durable and reliable; it merely implies that Lucasfilms has provided a badge with 3 letters on it in return for the $15k+ that you forked over. Of course, you try to recover the $15k from the dumb****s who actually think that THX-certification is a badge of product-quality, and are willing to fork over more money for THX-certified products.
I own THX-certified equipment (Technics SA-TX50) as well as non-THX certified equipment from the same company (Technics SU-Z11), and I can state first-hand that there's no connection between sound quality and THX certification. For music, the 2-channel SU-Z11 beats the pants off the 5-channel SA-TX50 any day of the week. OTOH, if you have a reasonable-sized preview theatre for which you want 5-channel sound, then the THX-certified SA-TX50 is fair choice to obtain good SPL with the appropriate speakers. No guarantees on sound quality, but at 5 x 100W, it will be loud enough, for sure.
greenhorn
Patron
Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
Would you say that only those who are certified are competent admins?
or that getting that certification ( assuming that you know all the stuff already from experience) make you any better as an admin?
Would you hire someone based on just their resume & certifications ?
nah, have tried out the MX 5021 at my house, and heard Z 5500's elsewhere. Not even close
. might upgrade my tweeters someday though.
desiibond said:
Would you say that only those who are certified are competent admins?
or that getting that certification ( assuming that you know all the stuff already from experience) make you any better as an admin?
Would you hire someone based on just their resume & certifications ?
desiibond said:
nah, have tried out the MX 5021 at my house, and heard Z 5500's elsewhere. Not even close
. might upgrade my tweeters someday though.Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
Bose? Oh, crap - this thread is going nowhere, pretty fast.
a) AFAIK, Bose doesn't sell any THX-certified equipment.
b) It's probably very easy to find THX-certified equipment that sounds much better than Bose.
c) It's also very easy to find non-THX-certified equipment that sounds much better than both Bose and THX-certified equipment.
desiibond said:
Bose? Oh, crap - this thread is going nowhere, pretty fast.
a) AFAIK, Bose doesn't sell any THX-certified equipment.
b) It's probably very easy to find THX-certified equipment that sounds much better than Bose
.c) It's also very easy to find non-THX-certified equipment that sounds much better than both Bose and THX-certified equipment
.
freshseasons1
Adept
Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
Let see this in another perspective.
If you want no-brainer approach and when the product cost is almost similar certification like THX helps.After all not all consumers are geeks spending day and night before LCD to get the last drop out of the ocean of Internet as if there is no tomorrow.Some people have better things in life to do.
Basically for people who dont have time to research or bother, THX certification,like UV Labs approval on consumer electronics does help.
But then thats the end of it.THX is not the end all of Audio Paradise.
Some manufactures may choose not to pay extra for THX certification.But it no where means they as not at par.
Moreever what THX you are talking takes this discussion to another level.
THX Select caters small to medium room and hence i feel their evaluation is highly subjective.
A speakers or Amps may pass THX Select but fail at THX Ultra 2. So if a speaker has THX but not THX Ultra 2 i wouldnt be bothered personally.
So if you are good with numbers,know that speaker sensitivity is more important than watts,knows watts is not end all,and are not stereotypes who foolishly drool that yamahas are Bright or that marantz or HK is more warm,or that logitech z5500 with (Insane bass :tongue are be it end it speakers PC Speakers,THX doesnt mean much to this cadre.
Let see this in another perspective.
If you want no-brainer approach and when the product cost is almost similar certification like THX helps.After all not all consumers are geeks spending day and night before LCD to get the last drop out of the ocean of Internet as if there is no tomorrow.Some people have better things in life to do.
Basically for people who dont have time to research or bother, THX certification,like UV Labs approval on consumer electronics does help.
But then thats the end of it.THX is not the end all of Audio Paradise.
Some manufactures may choose not to pay extra for THX certification.But it no where means they as not at par.
Moreever what THX you are talking takes this discussion to another level.
THX Select caters small to medium room and hence i feel their evaluation is highly subjective.
A speakers or Amps may pass THX Select but fail at THX Ultra 2. So if a speaker has THX but not THX Ultra 2 i wouldnt be bothered personally.
So if you are good with numbers,know that speaker sensitivity is more important than watts,knows watts is not end all,and are not stereotypes who foolishly drool that yamahas are Bright
or that marantz or HK is more warm,or that logitech z5500 with (Insane bass :tongue are be it end it speakers PC Speakers,THX doesnt mean much to this cadre.
desiibond
Skilled
Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
comparing career certification with product quality certification is totally irrelevant and absurd!!
People who did certifications many times forget the concepts and fail in interviews and some get lucky during the certification exam. Does speakers that get certified get lucky or forget about their specs and start sounding like crap after few days?
greenhorn said:Would you say that only those who are certified are competent admins?
or that getting that certification ( assuming that you know all the stuff already from experience) make you any better as an admin?
Would you hire someone based on just their resume & certifications ?
nah, have tried out the MX 5021 at my house, and heard Z 5500's elsewhere. Not even close
comparing career certification with product quality certification is totally irrelevant and absurd!!
People who did certifications many times forget the concepts and fail in interviews and some get lucky during the certification exam. Does speakers that get certified get lucky or forget about their specs and start sounding like crap after few days?
greenhorn
Patron
Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
have you read the small print that hardware specs are subject to change? often, the product which got THX certified is not what you might end up buying. Even the MX 5021 ended up going through a hardware change which had folks who had earlier models saying that the new ones sounded different. I believe some folks who opened them up for modding also found things to be different.
These product revisions are usually not certified again.
Totally irrelevant and absurd? Even if they don't forget, a lot of people pass kecause the info they know is what they just mugged up the dumps.
Designing equipment to pass THX certification is not that hard. I could do it Good specs alone dont mean great sound.
my point here was that just like career certification does not imply competence, a product certification does not imply a meritorious product.
have you read the small print that hardware specs are subject to change? often, the product which got THX certified is not what you might end up buying. Even the MX 5021 ended up going through a hardware change which had folks who had earlier models saying that the new ones sounded different. I believe some folks who opened them up for modding also found things to be different.
These product revisions are usually not certified again.
Totally irrelevant and absurd? Even if they don't forget, a lot of people pass kecause the info they know is what they just mugged up the dumps.
Designing equipment to pass THX certification is not that hard. I could do it I'm sure my current speakers would pass, except that the dude who made them could not afford to THX certify them. Good specs alone dont mean great sound.
my point here was that just like career certification does not imply competence, a product certification does not imply a meritorious product.
Suppose you have two products A & B. both cost approximately the same, and both offer the same quality, with B slightly better than A. A's manufacturer decides to get A THX certified. The manufacturer also offloads the certification cost onto the selling price of A. thus A ends up pricier than B, though B is better than A
Now you are at a showroom, and you are deciding between A &B. Would you let your ears be the judge , and buy B, or trust in the THX certification, and buy A?
have you read the small print that hardware specs are subject to change? often, the product which got THX certified is not what you might end up buying. Even the MX 5021 ended up going through a hardware change which had folks who had earlier models saying that the new ones sounded different. I believe some folks who opened them up for modding also found things to be different.
These product revisions are usually not certified again.
Totally irrelevant and absurd? Even if they don't forget, a lot of people pass kecause the info they know is what they just mugged up the dumps.
Designing equipment to pass THX certification is not that hard. I could do it
Good specs alone dont mean great sound. my point here was that just like career certification does not imply competence, a product certification does not imply a meritorious product.
have you read the small print that hardware specs are subject to change? often, the product which got THX certified is not what you might end up buying. Even the MX 5021 ended up going through a hardware change which had folks who had earlier models saying that the new ones sounded different. I believe some folks who opened them up for modding also found things to be different.
These product revisions are usually not certified again.
Totally irrelevant and absurd? Even if they don't forget, a lot of people pass kecause the info they know is what they just mugged up the dumps.
Designing equipment to pass THX certification is not that hard. I could do it
I'm sure my current speakers would pass, except that the dude who made them could not afford to THX certify them. Good specs alone dont mean great sound. my point here was that just like career certification does not imply competence, a product certification does not imply a meritorious product.
Suppose you have two products A & B. both cost approximately the same, and both offer the same quality, with B slightly better than A. A's manufacturer decides to get A THX certified. The manufacturer also offloads the certification cost onto the selling price of A. thus A ends up pricier than B, though B is better than A
Now you are at a showroom, and you are deciding between A &B. Would you let your ears be the judge , and buy B, or trust in the THX certification, and buy A?
manuvikraman
Adept
Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
hi,
U the 1 brought bolton sub from vinay?
hi,
U the 1 brought bolton sub from vinay?
sarang
Skilled
Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
@desiibond: When I visited a Bose showroom in pune, the dude tried to impress me with MP3s in surround modes and DVDs. Talk about crappiest audition experience, ever! So do you actually sit EXACTLY 28 inches from your speakers? I mean thats what the THX multimedia spec says. If not, then are you really listening to the holy grail aka THX stuff?
@Chaos: 2nd that.
@Greenie: Why are you even debating here?
@THX:
So you perform some undisclosed test to prove my equipment gives a good movie experience for stuff which is re-mastered to meet your standard and may not be standard on its own in the first place. Then you ask me for a bagful of cash and give a THX (Multimedia) certification. If I give you an even bigger bag of cash will 'ya gimme the THX Ultra? May be yes, will that make my product sound good? May be not! But will my sales volumes grow? Bet ya! Says who? Says Rick Dean of THX
Source
@desiibond: When I visited a Bose showroom in pune, the dude tried to impress me with MP3s in surround modes and DVDs. Talk about crappiest audition experience, ever! So do you actually sit EXACTLY 28 inches from your speakers? I mean thats what the THX multimedia spec says. If not, then are you really listening to the holy grail aka THX stuff?
@Chaos: 2nd that.
@Greenie: Why are you even debating here?
@THX:
So you perform some undisclosed test to prove my equipment gives a good movie experience for stuff which is re-mastered to meet your standard and may not be standard on its own in the first place. Then you ask me for a bagful of cash and give a THX (Multimedia) certification. If I give you an even bigger bag of cash will 'ya gimme the THX Ultra? May be yes, will that make my product sound good? May be not! But will my sales volumes grow? Bet ya! Says who? Says Rick Dean of THX
Source
desiibond
Skilled
Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
Where did I say that Bose is the best. I said that I was spellbound by the quality of the setup. And I also said that I can get similar setup for much less price.
@sarang, the demo that I took was a movie 5.1 channel movie in their private mini-theatre (dozen seater).
But when someone asks me for suggestion, sorry, I wont' recommend Bose.
@greenhorn yes, h/w specs are subject to change. And MX-5021's changed too but it still is far far superior than competition and still is a quality product. If you think that you can get a cerfitication on one lot of a product and make the next lots without athering to certification's standards, I am sorry, that won't work. The certificate will be revoked and company won't have rights to label THX on that product. Coming to your A and B, I have already explained this to you. Not every buyer is a geek and geeks are least interested in paper specs but the reality is that they make 5-10% of buyers. The rest 90% rely on WOM (word of mouth) and for them a certified product gets a preference and makes it easier for them to decide on a product. They won't understand the meaning of specs, how to test a product. This is where THX and relevant certification works. They do all the testing for you and certify whether the product is good or not. And yes, nothing is perfect. You might face one or two bad products even with certs like THX which could be caused by many factors. Also, if end-user is going for a full fledged home theatre setup, it helps much better if he is able to choose a set of products that are tightly compatible with each other and the list of quality products to choose from is so narrow that half of the research that you need to do (testing, understanding specs) etc is already done by a team that are more qualified that few geeks living next door!
In Short, the chance of buying a bad product is far less for non-geek end-users if they look for certs like THX!
Chaos said:If bose is the best you've heard, you haven't heard anything - THX or otherwise
Where did I say that Bose is the best. I said that I was spellbound by the quality of the setup. And I also said that I can get similar setup for much less price.
@sarang, the demo that I took was a movie 5.1 channel movie in their private mini-theatre (dozen seater).
But when someone asks me for suggestion, sorry, I wont' recommend Bose.
@greenhorn yes, h/w specs are subject to change. And MX-5021's changed too but it still is far far superior than competition and still is a quality product. If you think that you can get a cerfitication on one lot of a product and make the next lots without athering to certification's standards, I am sorry, that won't work. The certificate will be revoked and company won't have rights to label THX on that product. Coming to your A and B, I have already explained this to you. Not every buyer is a geek and geeks are least interested in paper specs but the reality is that they make 5-10% of buyers. The rest 90% rely on WOM (word of mouth) and for them a certified product gets a preference and makes it easier for them to decide on a product. They won't understand the meaning of specs, how to test a product. This is where THX and relevant certification works. They do all the testing for you and certify whether the product is good or not. And yes, nothing is perfect. You might face one or two bad products even with certs like THX which could be caused by many factors. Also, if end-user is going for a full fledged home theatre setup, it helps much better if he is able to choose a set of products that are tightly compatible with each other and the list of quality products to choose from is so narrow that half of the research that you need to do (testing, understanding specs) etc is already done by a team that are more qualified that few geeks living next door!
In Short, the chance of buying a bad product is far less for non-geek end-users if they look for certs like THX!
greenhorn
Patron
Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
I have already agreed to that. What I don't understand is, why you are still trolling THX , as the be all & end all, on a Technical forum, to enthusiasts, as the better option, when most of us already know better :|
desiibond said:
I have already agreed to that. What I don't understand is, why you are still trolling THX , as the be all & end all, on a Technical forum, to enthusiasts, as the better option, when most of us already know better :|
The Sorcerer
Skilled
Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
@ greenhorn: Don't feed the trolls, their mating season is still on :bleh:. You need to knock some people in "ye old fashion" way.
@ desibond:
Let's go to the basics:
A product is certified when it meets the standard that they have put up. Its not necessary that the certifications that they give separates good from bad- it simply means that one can stick a big huge sticker/tattoo right up their ass when it meets their standards. Its not necessary that their standards can be defined as "good". Did you even sit down and think what exactly is their test methodolgy that they have?
You might think "why do other premium/audiophile don't have the sticker?"- simply put:
#1. They are not worth even printing the logo on their product and encourage misconception like how you have (assuming your misconception is genuine and not troll posting)
#2. Their certification does not help consumers in any to differentiate good from the bad.
#3. The certification is not worth the money being paid for. Not all company follow the same "more certificates, the merrier" funda.
If consumers are under the impression that thx certified products means its the best, they are in misconception. We are in a world where most of the people loose their common sense when they see lot of bling and certificates BUT don't know that standards are needed to get those certification. Do acknowledge and get used to it, TE is a forum well-known to clear out misconception.
Keeping this meaning in mind, read again what greenhorn posted right from the start, things will make sense, assuming your motive is not to crap this thread. Assuming you have read it properly as its written in simply english, you will find it easier to learn what greenhorn is trying to explain. What I say might be "harsh", but its exactly such annoying posts will just make people to ignore you from giving you good wisdom.
@ greenhorn: Don't feed the trolls, their mating season is still on :bleh:. You need to knock some people in "ye old fashion" way.
@ desibond:
Let's go to the basics:
A product is certified when it meets the standard that they have put up. Its not necessary that the certifications that they give separates good from bad- it simply means that one can stick a big huge sticker/tattoo right up their ass when it meets their standards. Its not necessary that their standards can be defined as "good". Did you even sit down and think what exactly is their test methodolgy that they have?
You might think "why do other premium/audiophile don't have the sticker?"- simply put:
#1. They are not worth even printing the logo on their product and encourage misconception like how you have (assuming your misconception is genuine and not troll posting)
#2. Their certification does not help consumers in any to differentiate good from the bad.
#3. The certification is not worth the money being paid for. Not all company follow the same "more certificates, the merrier" funda.
If consumers are under the impression that thx certified products means its the best, they are in misconception. We are in a world where most of the people loose their common sense when they see lot of bling and certificates BUT don't know that standards are needed to get those certification. Do acknowledge and get used to it, TE is a forum well-known to clear out misconception.
Keeping this meaning in mind, read again what greenhorn posted right from the start, things will make sense, assuming your motive is not to crap this thread. Assuming you have read it properly as its written in simply english, you will find it easier to learn what greenhorn is trying to explain. What I say might be "harsh", but its exactly such annoying posts will just make people to ignore you from giving you good wisdom.
desiibond
Skilled
Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
yes. Let's go to the basics.
Title: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
If you read as it's written in simple English, the thread was meant to list THX models and how they fare and NOT asking for suggestions whether THX is good or bad. And all along the thread, I was trying to explain how THX works, when it is useful and never in any of my posts, I said that THX is nirvana that everyone has to follow. Thanks to the post no. 2, this thread went totally wrong way.
yyou can write up a detailed post with relevant material and opinions from geek communities on how to setup a non-THX setup that can cost less than a THX setup and gives more quality. But it's a different topic altogether and that discussion has to be somewhere else.
Spreading wisdom is good but forcing it in a thread that is created for some other purpose, nah, doesn't sound good.
Anyways, I gave my views and I gave the link to check the list of THX certified products. There is no point in continuing this argument of THX: go or no-go. And @thesorcerer, am least interested in starting wave of personal attacks like these:
The Sorcerer said:
yes. Let's go to the basics.
Title: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
If you read as it's written in simple English, the thread was meant to list THX models and how they fare and NOT asking for suggestions whether THX is good or bad. And all along the thread, I was trying to explain how THX works, when it is useful and never in any of my posts, I said that THX is nirvana that everyone has to follow. Thanks to the post no. 2, this thread went totally wrong way.
yyou can write up a detailed post with relevant material and opinions from geek communities on how to setup a non-THX setup that can cost less than a THX setup and gives more quality. But it's a different topic altogether and that discussion has to be somewhere else.
Spreading wisdom is good but forcing it in a thread that is created for some other purpose, nah, doesn't sound good.
Anyways, I gave my views and I gave the link to check the list of THX certified products. There is no point in continuing this argument of THX: go or no-go. And @thesorcerer, am least interested in starting wave of personal attacks like these:
The Sorcerer said:
The Sorcerer
Skilled
Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
You did not. The most commonly words you used was "THX" "recommended" "certified" and "products". In other words, you're doing the same PR/marketing BS what THX guys do (but they get paid and you troll)
Told people like you before and will say it again, wise up!
There's a huge difference between being rude, direct, sarcastic and "forcing" it. You're simply not making sense and you're doing anything but explaining.
desiibond said:
You did not. The most commonly words you used was "THX" "recommended" "certified" and "products". In other words, you're doing the same PR/marketing BS what THX guys do (but they get paid and you troll)
desiibond said:
Told people like you before and will say it again, wise up!
There's a huge difference between being rude, direct, sarcastic and "forcing" it. You're simply not making sense and you're doing anything but explaining.
YoGi-Sama
Skilled
Oh lord... this was an entertaining read overall...
Moral of the Story:
This is TechEnclave... not a run-of-a-mill-consumer-product-review-site where regular-joe-consumers advice other regular-joe-consumers. This is where geeks share their knowledge and advice, with each other as well with regular-joe-consumer, who wants to go beyond being just another RGC (yeh, let keet it short).
If you want to advice a RGC in a RGC way, then you are in a wrong place. Not only you're not helping RGC gaining any new knowledge, but in-fact feeding him misconceptions. Although this thread originally seem to be created for that basic purpose, the discussion went other way because wrong information was being fed. If someone asks about views on certain product which is wrong for his requirement or not good in general, people here help that user wise up. That's the crux of being here.
But then again, you can only feed someone... if that someone doesn't want to open his mouth to eat, nothing can be done.
@Mods: Before this thread gets derailed further and turn into flamewar, please either consider closing it or at least, separate the discussion to another thread altogether.
Moral of the Story:
This is TechEnclave... not a run-of-a-mill-consumer-product-review-site where regular-joe-consumers advice other regular-joe-consumers. This is where geeks share their knowledge and advice, with each other as well with regular-joe-consumer, who wants to go beyond being just another RGC (yeh, let keet it short).
If you want to advice a RGC in a RGC way, then you are in a wrong place. Not only you're not helping RGC gaining any new knowledge, but in-fact feeding him misconceptions. Although this thread originally seem to be created for that basic purpose, the discussion went other way because wrong information was being fed. If someone asks about views on certain product which is wrong for his requirement or not good in general, people here help that user wise up. That's the crux of being here.
But then again, you can only feed someone... if that someone doesn't want to open his mouth to eat, nothing can be done.
@Mods: Before this thread gets derailed further and turn into flamewar, please either consider closing it or at least, separate the discussion to another thread altogether.
greenhorn
Patron
Re: THX Certified sound systems and rate..contribute urself.
I was just trying to guide the OP along the right path. Just because the OP says something does not mean the thread has to be so, especially when he is inexperienced. elswhere he created a thread asking if 4 ohm or 8 ohm is better as far as speakers are concerned. IMHO its an invalid question in the first place, so we decided to tell him what we think he might actually be looking for.
http://www.techenclave.com/pc-peripherals/what-difference-between-4ohm-woofer-8-a-160264.html
have we told him whether 4 ohms or 8 ohms is better? No.
But i believe the thread has served his purpose.
Similarly, This question of his was based on the (again IMHO) flawed premise that a THX certification is required to be a good speaker. I just wanted to correct that, and we went offtopic. I still think that this thread will educate at least the OP, and a few others (and least of all you) about what value THX gives in return for your hard earned money.
desiibond said:
I was just trying to guide the OP along the right path. Just because the OP says something does not mean the thread has to be so, especially when he is inexperienced. elswhere he created a thread asking if 4 ohm or 8 ohm is better as far as speakers are concerned. IMHO its an invalid question in the first place, so we decided to tell him what we think he might actually be looking for.
http://www.techenclave.com/pc-peripherals/what-difference-between-4ohm-woofer-8-a-160264.html
have we told him whether 4 ohms or 8 ohms is better? No.
But i believe the thread has served his purpose.
Similarly, This question of his was based on the (again IMHO) flawed premise that a THX certification is required to be a good speaker. I just wanted to correct that, and we went offtopic. I still think that this thread will educate at least the OP, and a few others (and least of all you
) about what value THX gives in return for your hard earned money.