Party Monger
Juggernaut
Judges are people too. Everyone wants to cover their ass. You already know the grudges this govt holds.
Times Now First Denies Airing Doctored Video, Then Concedes it Did
- Thread starter iPwnz
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Are you unemployed? Are you a "nationalist"? Do you consider yourself patriotic? Earn 11lacs rupees in a day
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http://hindustantimes.com/india/sho...rs-in-delhi/story-tGXBGmnlhYMm5wz4uNu9vL.html
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http://hindustantimes.com/india/sho...rs-in-delhi/story-tGXBGmnlhYMm5wz4uNu9vL.html
The HC meant this
BTW, courts would have never ruled in favour of alleged Afzal supporters just because it'd mean a criticism of the verdict given to Afzal.
JNU shouldn't have taken support from opposition parties for a ideological battle against govt, it's the opposition parties that needed platform like JNU to continue their filthy politics than JNU needed them ! JNU should've kept those political Vultures away and kept its fabric unstained.
If it were to be an actual fight for freedom of speech, JNU should've kept it as apolitical as possible, Should've fought alone or taken the support of other national universities instead. Had JNU stood strong alone, public opinion would've turned in its favor. Even there would have been a internal rift in NDA (yes there are people in BJP who differ with official BJP stand on JNU issue) with Modi forced to react for compromise.
With opposition using the JNU platform, whole debate was reduced to Right vs Left or Govt vs Opposition ; just the way BJP wanted it to be. Anna Hazare fight was successful because he kept it apolitical ; even Award Wapsi was successful because it was seen as apolitical initially.
Now everyone one including Kanhaiyya will use JNU & it will suffer a collateral damage ! It'll be still worse if it continues marketing Kanhaiyya as a brand ambassador for JNU & its ideological stand ...
But to be honest...
So called Seculars & Sold Media indulged in fundamentally flawed campaigns off late and they needed some Stern disciplining.
For eg.
Yakub Memon was a wrong poster boy for abolishing death penalty..
Afzal was a wrong poster boy for criticizing the deficiencies in Indian judiciary...
Similarly, Anti-national sloganeering a wrong context for discussing freedom of speech...
BTW, This was the most hilarious and scathing attack on JNU
'LOL' Salaam..
^that pledge cartoon looks more like someone trying to brainwash manipulate the student's mind against his will. The teacher could simply share about the importance of a pledge or its relevance rather than literally show why it is. I believe this method is called "..." (sorry, forgot the term) emotional blackmail or brainwash.
Another reason is, not meaning to insult them but, i've had my own share of issues with the so-called people "guarding the border" so i may not have the same respect for them which you or the judge had nor do i see any relevance in this issue.
See, JNU did not "take" support from the opposition. The opposition simply did what they had to. Thats how opposition work regardless of the party which you belong to. Even more so because the issue touched upon "the freedom of expression" (you can depict this any way you prefer) which, as we all know, is a fundamental right. So its only natural for them to show up somewhere in the scene. They would've also looked spine-less, who wants that? While your reasoning behind their actions is understandable since you seem to be a fan of this govt.
However its a well-known fact that the govt. and some politicians belonging to some other parties dont welcome criticism nor do they take them lightly.
As for the last pic regarding the criticism on JNU, i hope that is just a joke, because that's the same as calling DU a breeding ground of right-wing hindu extremists but who dares to say this in the media they (hindus) are the majority in this country and how violent they can get? Bear that in mind. When you are a hindu and endorse the banning of beef all over the freaking country just because you don't eat it without even considering the minority, non-hindu opinion, you know that something is very wrong. This country is called democratic for a reason but thats another subject. But no worries we still have beef (and bacon) here on this side of the country.
I hope you know the politics which take place in their campus. Anyone in his right mind likes a proper open debate and discussion in JNU regardless of the subject and that is exactly what happened. The media shit hit the roof. The reason why the poor guy got arrested and had some ridiculous charges slapped on him and the source of all this drama has now found to be in the wrong and initial reports which accused him and threw him in the limelight in the wrong. So to me the cartoonist look like he is a passive-aggressive die-hard hindu himself. Just fyi, ABVP/BJP is never winning the students' union election there. They had little chance before this drama. Now they have none and that's cool.
Another reason is, not meaning to insult them but, i've had my own share of issues with the so-called people "guarding the border" so i may not have the same respect for them which you or the judge had nor do i see any relevance in this issue.
See, JNU did not "take" support from the opposition. The opposition simply did what they had to. Thats how opposition work regardless of the party which you belong to. Even more so because the issue touched upon "the freedom of expression" (you can depict this any way you prefer) which, as we all know, is a fundamental right. So its only natural for them to show up somewhere in the scene. They would've also looked spine-less, who wants that? While your reasoning behind their actions is understandable since you seem to be a fan of this govt.
However its a well-known fact that the govt. and some politicians belonging to some other parties dont welcome criticism nor do they take them lightly.
As for the last pic regarding the criticism on JNU, i hope that is just a joke, because that's the same as calling DU a breeding ground of right-wing hindu extremists but who dares to say this in the media they (hindus) are the majority in this country and how violent they can get? Bear that in mind. When you are a hindu and endorse the banning of beef all over the freaking country just because you don't eat it without even considering the minority, non-hindu opinion, you know that something is very wrong. This country is called democratic for a reason but thats another subject. But no worries we still have beef (and bacon) here on this side of the country.
I hope you know the politics which take place in their campus. Anyone in his right mind likes a proper open debate and discussion in JNU regardless of the subject and that is exactly what happened. The media shit hit the roof. The reason why the poor guy got arrested and had some ridiculous charges slapped on him and the source of all this drama has now found to be in the wrong and initial reports which accused him and threw him in the limelight in the wrong. So to me the cartoonist look like he is a passive-aggressive die-hard hindu himself. Just fyi, ABVP/BJP is never winning the students' union election there. They had little chance before this drama. Now they have none and that's cool.
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The issue was already politicized by BJP before any other party jumped in for their bit of drama. In fact, It might not even be too far fetched to think that the actual people who raised those slogans were sent in by BJP and that the whole thing is a setup. The doctored videos are also too convenient to be an afterthought and there must have been some objective and prior plan behind all that. See, Religious fundamentalism as a political platform hasn't worked out all too well for BJP, so off late, they seem to have ditched that and instead trying their hand at nationalism as a platform.
^that pledge cartoon looks more like someone trying tobrainwashmanipulate the student's mind against his will. The teacher could simply share about the importance of a pledge or its relevance rather than literally show why it is. I believe this method is called"..." (sorry, forgot the term)emotional blackmail or brainwash.
Another reason is, not meaning to insult them but, i've had my own share of issues with the so-called people "guarding the border" so i may not have the same respect for them which you or the judge had nor do i see any relevance in this issue.
See, JNU did not "take" support from the opposition. The opposition simply did what they had to. Thats how opposition work regardless of the party which you belong to. Even more so because the issue touched upon "the freedom of expression" (you can depict this any way you prefer) which, as we all know, is a fundamental right. So its only natural for them to show up somewhere in the scene. They would've also looked spine-less, who wants that? While your reasoning behind their actions is understandable since you seem to be a fan of this govt.
However its a well-known fact that the govt. and some politicians belonging to some other parties dont welcome criticism nor do they take them lightly.
As for the last pic regarding the criticism on JNU, i hope that is just a joke, because that's the same as calling DU a breeding ground of right-wing hindu extremists but who dares to say this in the media they (hindus) are the majority in this country and how violent they can get? Bear that in mind. When you are a hindu and endorse the banning of beef all over the freaking country just because you don't eat it without even considering the minority, non-hindu opinion, you know that something is very wrong. This country is called democratic for a reason but thats another subject. But no worries we still have beef (and bacon) here on this side of the country.
I hope you know the politics which take place in their campus. Anyone in his right mind likes a proper open debate and discussion in JNU regardless of the subject and that is exactly what happened. The media shit hit the roof. The reason why the poor guy got arrested and had some ridiculous charges slapped on him and the source of all this drama has now found to be in the wrong and initial reports which accused him and threw him in the limelight in the wrong. So to me the cartoonist look like he is a passive-aggressive die-hard hindu himself. Just fyi, ABVP/BJP is never winning the students' union election there. They had little chance before this drama. Now they have none and that's cool.
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/freedom-of-speech-cannot-be-absolute-sc/
freedom of Speech is not absolute, nor it can be in a country like India ; if it were to be absolute, We will have to Release Kamlesh Tiwari ASAP & Book Malda Rioters.
Kanhaiyya is neither poor nor innocent as you think, (if My father is paralyzed & monthly earnings of 4k to run a family ; I would be working at least part time to be honest )
http://www.newindianexpress.com/the...t-JNU-Registrar/2016/03/06/article3312100.ece
He was very well aware of Anti-India event . I know campus politics; A person holding on to campus, enjoying subsidies , just to streamline his further political career (he went for campaigning in Bihar for Left earlier), shouldn't enjoy the 'Student immunity' in a allegation like this.
We taxpayers fund their studies not politics. If you are a budding politician , face the consequences as one , not hiding behind the student immunity card.
http://www.ndtv.com/opinion/dear-jnu-students-we-fund-your-studies-not-your-politics-1277417
Coming to Opposition support on freedom of speech , JNU shouldn't have allowed them to share the dais with student union, Let them support from outside if they want to.
Who all are supporting freedom of speech now ?
1. Congress; which imposed Emergency is talking about freedom speech; 2. Left ruled states where is the freedom of expression ? 3. Kejrival who doesn't know what he speaks ? he says the students as innocent on one day and arrest them on the other ? How much he allowed freedom of speech for his own partymen in their dissent ?
Beef ban is a different debate altogether, The same people who support Cow slaughter , will oppose Jalikattu as animal cruelty and click selfies with injured Bulls in Spain ? Hosting Beef parties is nothing but freedom of irritating the sentiments of major religion in the country nothing else. These people are equally shameless as much as the fringe elements in Right wing !
Yes I do support the Govt Stand in JNU issue, Govt waited nearly three days after the controversial videos were aired and pressure mounted on them to act, it was simply unbearable to hear those slogans in national capital. Thankfully HC felt the same. Had the Govt not arrested Kanhaiyya etc , there would have been a public outrage and still there lives are not safe. BTW I don't support Govt on Budget 2016 esp EPF issue ! There are Many Like me, Non BJP, Non RSS/ABVP who stand with Govt on JNU issue, for eg Armed forces veterans, who are quite disturbed by those events and want the guilty to be punished irrespective of which political entity they support !
So what you are trying to tell is , Govt while facing a flak on Rohit Vemula issue (which wasn't enough for it already) , converted a cultural event hosted by JNUSU , into a Anti-national one with sloganeering done by ABVP members , and doctored the Videos , inserted Afzal support slogans and tried to malign JNU ? not stopping at that, it conducted a support rally in favor of JNU in Jadhavpur University also & chanted Afzal supporting slogans so as to malign all leftist dominant universities ? How far fetched the theory is that ? dont you think it is more like a Praksh Jha script ? Anyways the truth of doctored videos will come out soon with HC verdict lets see.
If a whole affidavit can be forged in Ishrat Jehan issue by HM orders, to safeguard their vote bank politics , doctoring of videos doesn't seem impossible from either side.
Please go through the history of JNU , They were involved in celebrating the killings of 76 CRPF jawans in Dantewada & supporting Naxals ? It is not the first time such things happened in JNU & it landed in controversy.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...er-peoples-war-at-JNU/articleshow/5783093.cms
The advocates of freedom of speech & expression did not allow Baba Ramdev to speak or Bengali students to conduct Durga Puja in its premises.
BTW imagine Celebration of Osama Martyrdom day in one of premier US universities, and shouting Anti - US slogans ? you expect US Govt to support it as freedom of speech & will leave you scot free?
Will leave you with one of the best responses again by an actor on this issue.
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First of all, Rohit Vemula case is a different one. Caste politics with backing from politicians and harassment is very common in many college campuses in AP and Telangana and HCU is one of the worst. I can totally believe that he was harassed for defying higher caste students (the actual issue doesn't matter as much as the defying) and of course the opposition parties used his suicide as an opportunity to get at the govt.
As for as this particular incident goes, its not the first time politicians have tried to use students directly or indirectly and hijacked meetings and rallies for their political agenda. How many times do you think I have seen that happen? BJP is no exception to this. Yes, all parties do it , but don't be under any assumptions and BJP is some how different. They are not driven by sentiments like religion or patriotism. Those are just tools to score vote banks. This is the same BJP whose minister on live TV tried to justify and make light of the issue of ISIS and Pak flags being hoisted in J&K just because they have an affiliation with PDP for the govt there. They will do anything to for their own personal and political gain just like any other party.
In fact, having studied at a premier campus that was put in the hands of BJP affiliated aides by the former HRD minister Murali Manohar Joshi the last time BJP came into power and nearly ruined by them over the years, I have first hand experience of the kind of things these people are capable of doing to students and their families. Utter corruption, doctoring fake evidence, using political clout to harass students via police and goons, making threats (including threats to life) to students and parents to hush up issues, I have seen all sorts of shit happen in just 2 years I was there and after that a lot more shit happened. None of these guys had a decent enough education to be qualified enough to be in their roles and yet, their affiliation with MMJ gave them total control over the institution. At least MMJ was highly educated to qualify as a HRD minister even if the corruption is ignored, but how we gave an uneducated drama queen serving this ministry and doing as she pleases.
So yeah, I have 100% confidence that if BJP wanted some publicity to market themselves has a nationalistic and patriotic party, they are totally capable of staging this sort of thing (and what better place to use than JNU for that) while framing students. It is quite easy. Lets say the students really gathered to discuss and protest the treatment of Afzal Guru, mix in few goons to raise slogans against the govt or the country, film the whole thing, doctor the videos to make it seem like the leaders or the whole group was involved and use it to book the leaders. Then use it to justify their stance as a patriotic party, again stress on the need to imbibe nationalism by installing flags in all Central Universities at a whooping cost of 45 Lac each and monthly maintenance of 65k.
Actually they do, to a large extent, as long as the free speech is not escalated into violence or in some way impinging on the rights of others. They have a right to debate any issue even if it concerns a enemy of the state. For instance, there was rumor running that the body of Osama was thrown into the sea. Regardless of whether its true or not, any US citizen can protest against that treatment. Protesting against govt is the most basic fundamental right in every democracy.
Also, don't forget that In the end it is a matter of perspective. The US Govt treats Snowden Like a bigger criminal than Osama. Regardless of whether his actions did good or bad for the people at large, he is seen as a traitor of the country and govt. If somebody carries out a protest against the treatment being meted out to Snowden, do you think should they also be branded as traitors and put away in prison for eternity?
Gandhi too was charged with sedition, Bhagat Singh was a terrorist by definition of the word and Subhas Chandra Bose was a fascist directly and indirectly responsible for the deaths and war crimes against countless Indians. Yet we have their portraits hanging in govt offices, schools and colleges because we chose to see them as freedom fighters and revolutionaries. Even after independence, there were numerous violent freedom movements for independent states (latest being Telangana) and most their actions can be seen as sedition. So ultimately, wow people see it depends on their frame of reference.
I beg to differ here, Rohit & friends assaulted the ABVP leader according to the reports, Again he indulged in everything other than what is expected of a student. Only Cowards commit suicide when they are overpowered by the opposition, Reasonably brave usually commit suicide when they are let down by their own people ! Rohith wasn't a coward by any analytical reasoning.
there were many Dalit suicides in UOH and last one was during UPA regime when state was also ruled by Congress
http://roundtableindia.co.in/index....-of-hyderabad&catid=122:atrocities&Itemid=138
No Vultures Like Rahul G or Kejrival Visited UOH to show solidarity then ? Opposition parties are playing filthy politics over a suicide issue.
I am not a fan of Smriti theatrics either, but she wasn't left with any options ; had she not made that scathing attack on the opposition , opposition would have been asking for her resignation by this time ( She just followed the rule, Offence is the best form of Defense).
She wasn't uttering falsehood as she was accused of, see tweets by NDTV itself
Rahul G has entered CBSE class V textbooks in a subtle way.
JNU Students enjoy annual fees of Rs 250 , Hostel fees of Rs 750 , on an average Govt Pays 3L per student at JNU (for what to listen to such slogans ?). Increase the fees to the current standards, you will recover much more than the cost of Hosting & maintaining the FLAG ! Decision of hosting a flag in all central universities was a very well timed , its much needed than anytime before. Since you get such a subsidized stay and food in expensive city like Delhi, people won't finish their research for years together. Make them pay for every extra day in JNU, make them accountable.
You are making sound that ABVP Unions are the only culprits in the campus and others are innocents. They are equally malicious and indulge in filthy politics and need to be punished too. Yes, BJP is not any different as far as campus politics goes but note solely responsible either. I sincerely doubt your BJP conspiracy theory in JNU just because of the history of JNU. Anyways truth will come out , let's see.
But will US allow sloganeering of breaking it down to pieces on its soil ? Will any other country do? Snowden vs Osama ; its always an internal threat more dangerous than the external one.
I think even if UPA was in govt it'd have been forced to act against JNU.
NDA waited for 3 days for acting against JNU, it was being criticized heavily for not acting against the erring students, same media accused the Govt of shielding the culprits to cement its alliances with PDP. Had it been planned By BJP we could've seen much swifter action.
Bhagat Singh terrorist?
You're dangerously generalizing to suit your narrative. This way even Godse can be proved as a nationalist.
Oh Lord, Gandhi cannot be likened with Afzal etc, I don't think you're naive enough not to understand that.
Ok Even Bhagat Singh didn't kill innocents, neither he planned to harm anyone while throwing the Bombs at the parliament. These terrorists are brain washed and act as programmed killing machines. Only way to stop them is to execute them and their sympathizers. What'd you make of poor soldiers fighting against these elements, fools? Or anti-nationals not helpful in ideological uplifting of India?
Yeah I agree, the Sedition charges were bit too much govt should rethink on its implementation. Arrests were definitely required so is judicial custody , but leave them after warning coz finally they are 'students' . Anyways govt inaction would have resulted in Yakub, Kasab martyrdom day and what a nuisance !
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Holi shit guys. Dem essays. xD
btw, its finally happened! The ONE thing which I've been waiting for. Uncle Kejri and his govt to file cases against tv channels for airing doctored videos.
http://indianexpress.com/article/ci...ce-to-tv-channels-for-airing-doctored-videos/[DOUBLEPOST=1457402059][/DOUBLEPOST]Meanwhile it seems like Smriti Irani news will never end. Read up on the accident news.
btw, its finally happened! The ONE thing which I've been waiting for. Uncle Kejri and his govt to file cases against tv channels for airing doctored videos.
http://indianexpress.com/article/ci...ce-to-tv-channels-for-airing-doctored-videos/[DOUBLEPOST=1457402059][/DOUBLEPOST]Meanwhile it seems like Smriti Irani news will never end. Read up on the accident news.
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Party Monger
Juggernaut
I can totally believe that Rohit and his friends retaliated with violence. ABVP members indulge in a lot of bullying and goodaism on campuses in AP & Telangana. Anybody who opposes them (including staff, teachers) are made to suffer and in many cases even police is unable to touch them due to their political ties. While Caste & religion based harassment might not be a direct agenda, the extensive caste feeling in these regions and the members being drunk on power and connections means that lower caste students are often victims of harassment. As I said, the reasons and motives doesn't matter here, they can beat you up for any reason or no reason and there would not be you can do about it. That's why I said its a different kind of issue.
I also agree that opposition parties jumped at the opportunity of politicizing his suicide because that is what they do, but then its not like BJP didn't pull this kind of crap when it was sitting in the opposition. Bottom-line is that BJP is just like any other political party. You are deluded if you think they care two hoots about the country over their own personal gain.
Not every incident gets the same kind of attention. For instance Nirbhaya's case garnered a lot of attention and both BJP and AAP politicized the issue and tried to gain political mileage. There were at least 2~3 more incidents after the Nirbhaya case that were just as brutal and horrific, but they didn't gain the same amount of publicity and no party tried to politicize them.
See, this why I said that people see things differently based on their own frame of reference. Even given the same circumstances, people would label one as a hero and another as a villain.
Gandhi fought for independence of his place of origin which was annexed into the British empire. Kashmir was an independent kingdom that was annexed into India after independence. Same goes for most of the southern states of India. So, why is it Ok for Gandhi to demand independence for his place of origin and be labeled a hero for it, but not for Kashmir Separatists to demand independence for their own place of origin. Rather, they are labeled as anti-nationals. If somebody is anti-national for revolting against the established govt, then Gandhi too revolted against the established govt of India at the time.
Also, look up the definition of terrorism. Anybody who uses unauthorized violence and terror to get their point across can be classified as a terrorist and their method as terrorism. Bhagat Singh and Chandra Shekar Azad can be both classified as such. Its your frame of reference that makes people in India see them differently.
Violence is detestable, but you would justify it when its your side doing it and condemn it when you are on the side of the victims.
What harm did the people who got injured in the bomb attack by Bhagat Singh do? Were they directly responsible for the tragedy that Bhagat singh went through? Regardless of intents, they threw bombs into the midst of people.
If intents are all that matter, then if some Islamic terrorist placed a bomb with no intent of harming people and it kills 200 people, would they be exempt from guilt because they did not intend it? What about the victims of Chandra Shekar azad who were police just doing their duty? If the victims are not of Indian origin or were working for the govt to make a living, you automatically disqualified them as innocent. If that is how you want to look at things, then Al Quaida and ISIS too list their their own justifications and they don't see their victims as innocent.
Also, FYI, Godse is seen as a nationalist by RSS and few other outfits. A BJP leader called him a patriot. That is actually true from their frame of reference. After all he killed a man who they saw as anti-national.
i_rock098
Galvanizer
Because, There is a huge difference in the analogy you make. In case of Gandhi every single person wanted independence from the British rule because they personally suffered from the British rule, here we have people who don't know rats ass about the Kashmir issue and probably have never even visited Kashmir support the separatist.
I am a Kashmiri pandit and you have absolutely no idea what my people had to suffer due to these separatist. We are the original inhabitants of Kashmir, we were in Kashmir long before these separatist. Our community lived in Kashmir since 3rd century long before Islam spread there in 15th century what about our opinion? We don't want a separate country.
Let me give a simple analogy to make you understand, a group called x lives near your house. One fine day they tell you to leave your house (YOUR house) and go away otherwise they will kill your men and rape your women. Would you be so supportive of these group x?
I have no home, I am a refugee in my own country, no other person has the right to decide for me and my people, not these separatist and certainly not people who have not even seen the horrors we had to go through.
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rdst_1
Juggernaut
Everyone went through the same thing even when India and Pakistan were divided. There are many refugees in India that are leading a successful life despite facing all those adversities. The best example are the Jews, who were nearly wiped out, yet you don't see them crying about it.
You yourself said that Gandhiji was a hero to majority of the people. Yes, it was the majority that wanted independence, not every single person like you are saying. Hence we can conclude that the same person can be a hero or a traitor depending upon what the majority of the people think.
We can say the same thing for the people in Kashmir and other areas today who have suffered because of AFSPA.
Having said that, even if majority of the people in Kashmir today want an independent Kashmir, it's never gonna happen. Same goes for North-East as well. What the people asking for independence don't consider is that whether they can remain independent. Both being land-locked areas, they will need the help of their neighbours, who, in this case will be Pakistan and China.
Yes, it is a case of choosing the lesser of the evils but frankly I think they have a better chance at getting back to normal lives if they chose India.
Whatever the Mughals did, you can't take revenge for that today considering the India that got independence was very different from the India that was invaded by the Mughals. If you want to go back to those days, then I guess we should divide India up into princely states being leeched by their rulers as well.
No, I personally have not been in your shoes by having to give up my home, but members of my family had to flee for their life from Lahore at the time of independence. They could either have just kept riling up inside on what happened or decided to make something of their lives, like they did. I hope you choose the latter as well because in the end, the home is where the heart is.
i_rock098
Galvanizer
Even Kashmiri pandits are top of their fields be it film, literature, business that does not undermine the cruelty that has been done against us. We cry because we still feel the pain till this day and that is the only way we know how to bring awareness about our issue, we are a peaceful community, we don't believe in violence, you would never see us burning trains cars public property to get our fundamental right of right to live. What is our crime? That we were born in Kashmir? Is that the crime that we have to live our whole life with?
You sympathise against the actions done by AFSPA, what about us? Are we not equal humans.
When do we ask for revenge? Do we ask for the Indian army to kill everyone there so that we can go back? We ask their to be peace so that we can go back home and live without the fear of our life.
This again goes back to my point that it is very easy to make judgements sitting at home when we don't even have anywhere to call home, making comments about Kashmir when they have never lived there. You need real courage to live through life when you have had a gun to your head because you belong to a different religion. A person who has not seen our suffering with their own eyes has no right to comment for or against us.
PS: This post is not against you, it is against people who support the separatist.
As big a number as it may seem to you, only a minuscule percentage of the population of India actually supported the independence movement. The rest didn't care a rat's ass about who they were ruled by because their lives wound't change regardless of who they were ruled by. Its the same reason that a homeless person living on the streets would wound't care which party wins the elections.
Also, Gandhi himself was a racist and at one point of time justified the way the British were wiping out the natives in Africa using guns and cannons against their arrows and spears because according to him, they were supposedly inferior races. He despised being treated on par with Africans. His real fight started after he was treated like an African on a train and the earliest motives behind his independence struggle for India was the sentiment that Indians were racially on par or superior to Europeans and that Indians cannot be treated like Africans.
There are different kinds of people with different motives. Its not like Gandhi had high and noble motive and all the people of the country supported his motives or the cause with one voice.
Sorry, I am not taking any sides here. What I am pointing out is that there are two sides to a coin and I am defending your right as a Kashmiri to be either treated properly like a citizen or to demand to be separated. You might still be called an anti-national and a traitor if you demand separation and you may also see legal consequences, but from your own frame of reference, you would not be wrong.
I have several friends and colleagues from Kashmir all of them Hindus and I despise the treatment they get. People from sister states and the north east in general have it even worse. On one side people claim these are part of India, but I have rarely seem the people from these places being treated like they are fellow citizens belonging to the same country. Heck, its even been institutionalized in the name of security. Simple things like getting a mobile number, opening a bank account, getting a credit card, things that most other people take for grated is such a hassle as soon as they know that you are from Kashmir. Still, if you wish to continue to be part of the country while being treated like an unwanted refugee, I would defend your right to do that too, but understand that not everyone of your fellow Kashmiri's agrees with you although they are forced to accept it given the situation.
A country is not a hunk of land and its imaginary borders. Its the people living in it. The people are more important than the land. But people in this country seem to have had their priorities wrong for a long time. We vehemently oppose how China is claiming sister states in their maps, but everywhere in India, the people from sister states are really treated like they are from a different country. It is the same kind of alienation by a few that ultimately led to creation of Pakistan and all the hate that followed and ultimately Kashmir too became a tragic victim of its fallout.
Whole theory of relativity, my freedom fighter, your terrorist question is unnecessary complicating the issue. Interpol (a neutral body) has already enlisted both Jaish & Lashkar as terrorist organizations , supporters & sympathizers of their actions should be dealt with strictest possible action.
Yes the definition of terrorism is debatable but that doesn't mean it can be extrapolated retrospectively to include Indian freedom fighters. The current unequivocal understanding of terrorism basically pertaining to one religion is not that world has seen anytime in the past. The sole purpose is to kill innocents nothing else.
Don't dilute or confuse yourself by generalizing brain washed Islamic terrorism with the freedom struggle done by enlightened, otherwise socialist individuals like Mr Gandhi or Bhagat Singh.
I just didn't want to go into the details of Kashmir freedom struggle, but since the discussion has opened up my 2 cents.
There was a systematic ethnic cleaning or rather a genocide of people who didn't support the idea of free Kashmir & were happy with Kashmir being a Indian state by separatists. It's not only Kashmiri Pandits but several Muslims were treated brutally so as to maintain a majority of Separatist view in the valley.
Kashmir was mostly ruled by Hindu kings and there was sizeable Hindu population which was made to chose between their roots vs their lives.
Considering the violence committed by Separatists against the Pandits, AFSPA irregularities are miniscule in nature.
Had a Sanghi called Shobha DE as Aunty, it'd have been a grave sexist remark with regressive mindset. Had Any BJP state govt decided to prosecute TV channels, it'd have been a fascist act impinging on freedom of Press. Nobody of biased media will now object to Delhi Govt action or to Telegraph calling Smriti as Aunty national.
BTW, whose bothered about prosecution by Kejri govt? we're Still waiting for action on 371 page evidence against Sheila Dixit govt ! Still waiting for following up of any of his baseless allegations to logical conclusions. He's given a written apologies to Gadkari in defamation suit, he's shamelessly ready with few more apology letters I think. Bring it on, let's see.
Earlier only established presstitutes (Nira Radia remember) were receiving fat checks from political parties, glad to hear that with the advent of social media, social media warriors are also making money.
See the transformation of Sanjay Jha for example... (before and after)
Earlier, People used to Caution the corrupt politicians; "Beware Media is watching"....
Now Corrupt paid media is being cautioned ;
" Beware Social Media is watching "
As a rule of life, time will come for social media too, if it gets corrupt beyond a level...
rdst_1
Juggernaut
All our freedom fighters were tried and prosecuted as terrorists or traitors. It's only after we won independence were they called freedom fighters. What do you think would have been the case had England continued with their rule over India. History is always written by the victors. Our freedom struggle was put in motion because of the unjust governance of the English regime. We weren't that motivated to gain independence when we were ruled by Maharajas no matter how unjust their rule was.Whole theory of relativity, my freedom fighter, your terrorist question is unnecessary complicating the issue. Interpol (a neutral body) has already enlisted both Jaish & Lashkar as terrorist organizations , supporters & sympathizers of their actions should be dealt with strictest possible action.
Yes the definition of terrorism is debatable but that doesn't mean it can be extrapolated retrospectively to include Indian freedom fighters. The current unequivocal understanding of terrorism basically pertaining to one religion is not that world has seen anytime in the past. The sole purpose is to kill innocents nothing else.
Don't dilute or confuse yourself by generalizing brain washed Islamic terrorism with the freedom struggle done by enlightened, otherwise socialist individuals like Mr Gandhi or Bhagat Singh.
I just didn't want to go into the details of Kashmir freedom struggle, but since the discussion has opened up my 2 cents.
There was a systematic ethnic cleaning or rather a genocide of people who didn't support the idea of free Kashmir & were happy with Kashmir being a Indian state by separatists. It's not only Kashmiri Pandits but several Muslims were treated brutally so as to maintain a majority of Separatist view in the valley.
Kashmir was mostly ruled by Hindu kings and there was sizeable Hindu population which was made to chose between their roots vs their lives.
Considering the violence committed by Separatists against the Pandits, AFSPA irregularities are miniscule in nature.
Had a Sanghi called Shobha DE as Aunty, it'd have been a grave sexist remark with regressive mindset. Had Any BJP state govt decided to prosecute TV channels, it'd have been a fascist act impinging on freedom of Press. Nobody of biased media will now object to Delhi Govt action or to Telegraph calling Smriti as Aunty national.
BTW, whose bothered about prosecution by Kejri govt? we're Still waiting for action on 371 page evidence against Sheila Dixit govt ! Still waiting for following up of any of his baseless allegations to logical conclusions. He's given a written apologies to Gadkari in defamation suit, he's shamelessly ready with few more apology letters I think. Bring it on, let's see.
Earlier only established presstitutes (Nira Radia remember) were receiving fat checks from political parties, glad to hear that with the advent of social media, social media warriors are also making money.
See the transformation of Sanjay Jha for example... (before and after)
Earlier, People used to Caution the corrupt politicians; "Beware Media is watching"....
Now Corrupt paid media is being cautioned ;
" Beware Social Media is watching "
As a rule of life, time will come for social media too, if it gets corrupt beyond a level...
I see similarities even today. Nobody tries to see the reasoning behind why the Naxals or others had to do what they do. It's only because of the exploitation of the people by the hands of politicians, police and bureaucracy is why the people had to take such drastic steps.
The thing is, we are such a big country that no matter what, there will be issues with administration and governance. Digitization is a good step but that alone won't cut it. We need to step it up when it comes to accountability and punishing the corrupt. And this is where I find not only the current govt but all govts severely unmotivated.
Also I hate what is done in the name of religion. You have mentioned many times that the majority population (Hindus) shouldn't be irritated by organizing Beef parties and such, but I find such an opinion not only dangerous but also irrational and unconstitutional. We are supposed to allow everyone to follow their beliefs and not constrict others whose beliefs differ. I was born a Hindu and I have eaten beef and until I am forcing someone else to eat beef, why are you feeling irritated.
I feel more supportive of Vegans rather than hypocritical Hindus for whom only the life of a cow is important. I would like to see a Hindu farmer not hit a cow or a bull who tried to ruin his harvest.
All these Hindu beliefs had a solid reason behind their use during that time. A cow wasn't killed for meat because it served us better as a living being. Hence to discourage the next generation, who might have considered killing a cow, they made it a religious symbol.
Most of the teachings in our ancient scriptures are like these but instead of questioning their validity in today's age, we just start following them blindly.
I mean just look at the level of hypocrisy where we ask people not to cut cows for beef but are also the second biggest exporter of beef that is buffalo meat.
So aren't we being brain washed just like the Islamic followers you mentioned about. Aren't we being taught that it is OK to break the law even if you feel like someone is harming a cow. You should see how these goons of Gau Suraksha Dal treat people. I mean, what good did it do us to gain freedom if after nearly 70 years we have gone back to fighting based on what one eats.
Gandhi stopped Non Cooperation movement because of violence & went to fast opposing it , his dedication to non violence was iconic. Neither Gandhiji or Bhagat singh did not harm those unmotivated fellow citizens. it is not comparable anyway.
Islamic terrorism cannot be justified by anyway, so is killing of Gandhiji, Burning of train with Karsevaks, Riots that followed it, Parliament attack or Dadri Lynching, Violence cannot be justified period. There is nothing called as Good Violence by civilians, Similarly anti national sloganeering or supporting a terror convict cannot be justified , So is Patiala HC violence !
If you justify one act of violence , the other will be automatically justified , I Just denounce all acts of violence, whether it is committed by Jaish or Gau Suraksha Dal.
I personally don't have any issues with anybody consuming anything , neither anybody consuming beef at their homes. The act of hosting a beef party (though you have a constitutional right to do so) is like trying to irritate a feelings of majority community. Similarly hosting a Pork party in front of a Masjid (again you have the right to do so) will be condemned, because they are acts to irritate a particular community in a communally sensitive country like India. It is not freedom of expression, but it is freedom to irritate the feelings of certain community to suit your political inclinations that's all. Which is what VHP & Bajarang Dal do all time , so no much difference.
We are not a Secular country ( Secularism without a Universal Civil code is a Joke !) nor a mature democracy ( The democracies we compare routinely with our own are at least 200 yrs older than us). The ruling party just supports the popular view at the time , so what saves the Minority from wrath of a Majority in case of a fallout ? it is the percentage of moderates & the Just thinkers in the Majority community ( Some places in India Hindus are in Majority, in Certain places Muslims are ). Because law enforcement agencies & evidence can be manipulated in a such a way that nobody could be punished. Take any Riot or acts of Mob violence in recent past, are the real culprits ever punished ? So prevention of such issues are better than trying to arguing on the basis of constitutional rights and freedom of expression etc.
The problem with our country is the believers of Communal harmony are not aggressive enough, it is time that practitioners of communal harmony be vocal and aggressive about its implementation nationwide and Denounce any forces that try to divide us . Until we mature our democracy to that level of tolerance some sensitive handling of such issues is mandatory.
Role of media is very important in a mature democracy, but unfortunately our media is very Manipulative, it destroys the news and tries to deduce conclusions in favor of the political party they support. Relying too much on media has been our biggest drawback in recent years.
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