Want to buy a Washing Machine

[ubergeek]

Yes, its a bit of a pain though.

Spin makes up a small part of the entire wash cycle, adds stress which can be more if the load is unbalanced and you have some but not much control over. Avoiding overloading will have a bigger impact.

Try adding a quarter more detergent to counter the hard water.

Ok @blr_p this is what i have learnt so far.

The reason why my old washing machin broken within just 5 years might be due to a combination of hard water, overloading and if i were to buy a new one whilst keeping longevity in mind then i should spend some more money say 30-35K and get a good front load washing machine.
So this is what i have decided. iam going to buy a FL washing machine for 30-35K with bigger capacity. since the capacity will be more ill be buying a washing machine which be 6.5-7Kg hence lesser wash cycle and the life of the machine will last more.

Which brings me to the final question

Which FL washing machine should i go far based on the following parameter?
1. After sale service
2. Spare parts availability
3. good build quality

 

[blr_p]

Your machine broke twice in 5 years, your first drum change was in the third year. So you're looking at a second change now in the fifth year or getting a new one. Your siemens is an acceptable machine relatively speaking. That you could still get spares indicates Siemens along with Bosch have good spares availability. LG is a close second. The choice is between the two. Build quality is similar between them. LG will be quieter because its DD but a 5-6.5 kg LG means smaller drum than your present Siemens. You do not want that. If you go with an LG it has to be the 7kg model which is in the low 40s. An equivalent siemens/bosch will be slightly less.

But your present loading tells me that a siemens of the same capacity will suffice. If you do not foresee adding more members to your family in the next five years then a 6kg siemens model will do. I find the build quality of the siemens tends to be slightly better than equivalent bosch. A 7kg model means you do one wash a day instead of twice a day. It's more convenient in that sense and less likely to be overloaded otherwise. Take a tape measure with you to the showroom so you can measure drums of whatever model and compare with the one you have. You want either same volume or bigger, not smaller.

Which is better ? spend 12k now for a second drum change or 30-40k for brand new. Today. price is more for a machine of equivalent quality as your siemens due to inflation and ruppee depreciation. After a 2nd drum change there is a chance the control board could go maybe in a couple of years, it will be 7 years old by then. If you've not had any problems with it so far that means your electricity is relatively stable. Are there any features you want in a new machine that your old machine does not have or are you happy with it. Could you put off getting a new machine by another 2-3 years.

Better build quality starts at 60k and above and only applies for 8kg machines. You cant find smaller capacities that are built either in Korea or Germany. And it's debatable whether the premium is worth it. Features, larger capacity, less demand and transport costs play a bigger role in the higher price.

With hard water the question is how hard, whether it tastes salty or not does not mean anything. Is it bore well, from the corporation or worse still from tankers. Barring the last one, only way you will know is if you get a lab to test it. Close to or above 300 parts per million, then better build or adding more detergent isn't going to do much. 100-200+ you can use more detergent. As hard water corrodes the drum spider faster. Even if you take the best care the drum will give way sooner, any drum. The only thing you can do in this case is reduce the number of wash cycles and avoid spin or at the slowest setting. First two years the drum support will be fine but gets weaker from that point on.

 

[ubergeek]

Your machine broke twice in 5 years, your first drum change was in the third year. So you're looking at a second change now in the fifth year or getting a new one. Your siemens is an acceptable machine relatively speaking. That you could still get spares indicates Siemens along with Bosch have good spares availability. LG is a close second. The choice is between the two. Build quality is similar between them. LG will be quieter because its DD but a 5-6.5 kg LG means smaller drum than your present Siemens. You do not want that. If you go with an LG it has to be the 7kg model which is in the low 40s. An equivalent siemens/bosch will be slightly less.

But your present loading tells me that a siemens of the same capacity will suffice. If you do not foresee adding more members to your family in the next five years then a 6kg siemens model will do. I find the build quality of the siemens tends to be slightly better than equivalent bosch. A 7kg model means you do one wash a day instead of twice a day. It's more convenient in that sense and less likely to be overloaded otherwise. Take a tape measure with you to the showroom so you can measure drums of whatever model and compare with the one you have. You want either same volume or bigger, not smaller.

Which is better ? spend 12k now for a second drum change or 30-40k for brand new. Today. price is more for a machine of equivalent quality as your siemens due to inflation and ruppee depreciation. After a 2nd drum change there is a chance the control board could go maybe in a couple of years, it will be 7 years old by then. If you've not had any problems with it so far that means your electricity is relatively stable. Are there any features you want in a new machine that your old machine does not have or are you happy with it. Could you put off getting a new machine by another 2-3 years.

Better build quality starts at 60k and above and only applies for 8kg machines. You cant find smaller capacities that are built either in Korea or Germany. And it's debatable whether the premium is worth it. Features, larger capacity, less demand and transport costs play a bigger role in the higher price.

With hard water the question is how hard, whether it tastes salty or not does not mean anything. Is it bore well, from the corporation or worse still from tankers. Barring the last one, only way you will know is if you get a lab to test it. Close to or above 300 parts per million, then better build or adding more detergent isn't going to do much. 100-200+ you can use more detergent. As hard water corrodes the drum spider faster. Even if you take the best care the drum will give way sooner, any drum. The only thing you can do in this case is reduce the number of wash cycles and avoid spin or at the slowest setting. First two years the drum support will be fine but gets weaker from that point on.

@blr_p

After a lot of deliberation with my parents,we have decided to go with http://www.bosch-home.com/in/produc...front-loading-washing-machine/WAX16161IN.html washing machine and its going to cost us 26K+1K for 2years extended direct warranty from bosch themselves which also covers replacement of spares. so why did i choose this machine?
1. Now days all the entry level models have option to change the spin speed and this one has that as well
2. 2 years extended warranty from bosch so for 4 years i dont need to worry if the machine breaks down
3. I measured the drum size of the machine and it is slightly bigger than my current 5.5KG siemens machine.

We decided against LG because the drumsize is quite small on the entry level model. and the next model which is a 6.5KG one is slightly bigger than my current washing maching but costs 34K .
Hope we Chose right this time. Thank's for your counsel @blr_p.

So i just went to zauba imports and most of the WAX16161IN machines are imported from CHina so i guess they are made in china? now iam confused

 

[blr_p]

@blr_p

After a lot of deliberation with my parents,we have decided to go with http://www.bosch-home.com/in/produc...front-loading-washing-machine/WAX16161IN.html washing machine and its going to cost us 26K+1K for 2years extended direct warranty from bosch themselves which also covers replacement of spares. so why did i choose this machine?

Can you post the text of the extended warranty here ? what exactly is covered and what isn't is something to be aware of before paying.

Since you said your water tank is 30 feet above i think you will be ok as far as water pressure goes.

1. Now days all the entry level models have option to change the spin speed and this one has that as well
2. 2 years extended warranty from bosch so for 4 years i dont need to worry if the machine breaks down
3. I measured the drum size of the machine and it is slightly bigger than my current 5.5KG siemens machine.

Do check out the manuals for the machine you want from the site, there are two one is an installation manual and the other is instructions for use. Bosch have screwed up the second one so you will have to look at the previous model to get the instructions for use, use model number WAX16160IN

The manual does not mention what spin speeds can be chosen but the max is 900 and it says it can be changed.

So long as the drum size is not smaller than your current machine.

We decided against LG because the drumsize is quite small on the entry level model. and the next model which is a 6.5KG one is slightly bigger than my current washing maching but costs 34K .
Hope we Chose right this time. Thank's for your counsel @blr_p.

So i just went to zauba imports and most of the WAX16161IN machines are imported from CHina so i guess they are made in china? now iam confused

The smallest size ones come from China. Bigger ones can come from Poland, Turkey, Thailand & Germany.

 

[ubergeek]

Can you post the text of the extended warranty here ? what exactly is covered and what isn't is something to be aware of before paying.

Since you said your water tank is 30 feet above i think you will be ok as far as water pressure goes.


Do check out the manuals for the machine you want from the site, there are two one is an installation manual and the other is instructions for use. Bosch have screwed up the second one so you will have to look at the previous model to get the instructions for use, use model number WAX16160IN

The manual does not mention what spin speeds can be chosen but the max is 900 and it says it can be changed.

So long as the drum size is not smaller than your current machine.


The smallest size ones come from China. Bigger ones can come from Poland, Turkey, Thailand & Germany.

Thanks for the heads up, I have ATLAST zeroed in on a model which according to zauba is imported from turkey and germany , it is WAB16260IN i checked the manuals and they say that it has variable spin options. going to get it for 29500 after exchanging my old siemns and cashback

 

[blr_p]

How much are they offering for the siemens ?

one of the things that bugged me with those WAX models is the door catch is plastic (!)

 

[ubergeek]

How much are they offering for the siemens ?

one of the things that bugged me with those WAX models is the door catch is plastic (!)

Actually not much, They have promotion running where they are giving 4500rs for my old machine. But the thing is, That amount is deducted from MRP which is 34499, hence the final price of the washing machine will be 30K. I inquired other dealers around my area for the price and they all quoted more or less the same . About the extended warranty bit. it is taken care of TATA AIG apparently, after the 2 year warranty gets over ill be making a call to a toll free number and they will send bosch engineers to my place free of cost . the extended warranty covers spare parts as well. it is not like reliance RESQ plan or something. for me that was the big draw. yeah door handle is plastic but even in myt old washing machine the door handle was plastic.[DOUBLEPOST=1406537207][/DOUBLEPOST]

How much are they offering for the siemens ?

one of the things that bugged me with those WAX models is the door catch is plastic (!)

Just called bosch they told me they wont entertain any kind of extended warranty policy so it is BS , the only advantage of buying from ezone is the cashback of 1500rs[DOUBLEPOST=1406537242][/DOUBLEPOST]People will say anything to sell a damn machine

 

[blr_p]

Actually not much, They have promotion running where they are giving 4500rs for my old machine. But the thing is, That amount is deducted from MRP which is 34499, hence the final price of the washing machine will be 30K. I inquired other dealers around my area for the price and they all quoted more or less the same .

The WAB is a 6kg model compared to 5.5 for the WAX. It has a few more programs and includes the 'intensive' option which the WAX lacks. Drum capacity wise they are the same.

The manual under consumption values states 6kg loads. Unless you are washing just jeans i doubt you will even reach half that weight before you are at full load. Read this article and ensure whoever does the washing understands this picture means full load (60% or a hands width from the opening)

About the extended warranty bit. it is taken care of TATA AIG apparently, after the 2 year warranty gets over ill be making a call to a toll free number and they will send bosch engineers to my place free of cost . the extended warranty covers spare parts as well. it is not like reliance RESQ plan or something. for me that was the big draw.

So this was some verbal thing. Unless you see in writing what is and isn't covered you could be in for a shock later.

Just called bosch they told me they wont entertain any kind of extended warranty policy so it is BS , the only advantage of buying from ezone is the cashback of 1500rs[DOUBLEPOST=1406537242][/DOUBLEPOST]People will say anything to sell a damn machine

Right, these guys were selling you a third party warranty. Will be cheaper than bosch but then you're not getting the same consistent service.

Extended warranties are like gambling. You bet there will be a problem two years after manufacturers warranty runs out who bet you won't have any.

yeah door handle is plastic but even in myt old washing machine the door handle was plastic.

Yeah, i should have been more clear. Not the door handle, but the catch, that pointed thing that sticks out of the door that then goes into the receptacle to lock the door. Somehow i'm not too confident that plastic is the best material to use for something like this that will be facing repeated pressure. Most surprising when you see the Koreans using proper metal.

 

[ubergeek]

The WAB is a 6kg model compared to 5.5 for the WAX. It has a few more programs and includes the 'intensive' option which the WAX lacks. Drum capacity wise they are the same.

The manual under consumption values states 6kg loads. Unless you are washing just jeans i doubt you will even reach half that weight before you are at full load. Read this article and ensure whoever does the washing understands this picture means full load (60% or a hands width from the opening)

So this was some verbal thing. Unless you see in writing what is and isn't covered you could be in for a shock later.


Right, these guys were selling you a third party warranty. Will be cheaper than bosch but then you're not getting the same consistent service.

Extended warranties are like gambling. You bet there will be a problem two years after manufacturers warranty runs out who bet you won't have any.


Yeah, i should have been more clear. Not the door handle, but the catch, that pointed thing that sticks out of the door that then goes into the receptacle to lock the door. Somehow i'm not too confident that plastic is the best material to use for something like this that will be facing repeated pressure. Most surprising when you see the Koreans using proper metal.

The reason why I chose the wab model over the wax model is the wax models seem to be imported from China whereas the wab models seem to be imported from turkey or Germany as per zauba imports. My question is will there be any difference between the two in terms of build quality?. If no the I might as well by the wax model since it will cost me only 24k. Since the extended warranty is bs. I really need to take good care of whatever Bosch machines that iam going to buy. Thanks for the input I'll be taking extra care as you have said in the above post. I hope there are no issues with door catch.

 

[blr_p]

Difference in build quality ? between made in Turkey or China hmm if i were to hazard a guess not too much. if door catch breaks its a cheap replacement + service charge. And it will only happen after 2 years + 1 day

These factories are strategically located so that shipping costs to major markets are cheaper. Turkey & pOland serve Europe primarily. They don't sell 5.5kg models in Europe because they use duvets in cold weather which will not fit. The smallest size is 7KG so you see those sizes will come from poland, turkey or germany. They will not be importing from China as its too far away and not worth the cost.

Question to ask is
- is it cheaper to ship from China a 70kg box to India than it is from Turkey.
- do more more units come from China or Turkey.

These will play a factor in the price.

There is a difference in features, the wax has the ones you will need most of the time, cottons, mixes & delicates. Rinse & hold, pausing and timer and rinse plus.

wab has little more programs and 'intensive'. Do you get lots of dirty clothes to wash as in drenched in sweat. Then you need intensive program otherwise not. It can be useful with difficult stains but only for cotton. Personally i'd go with it as i'd rather have it and not need it than the other way. did you find your siemens just could not get some clothes clean. then intensive might be useful, assuming your siemens did not have intensive setting. if it did then you want the wab.

Difference of motor that can handle 5.5kg vs 6kg. Did motor on siemens conk out in five years ? no. ever it does its a cheap belt replacement. Motor does not conk out. Its the drum that goes.

 

[ubergeek]

Difference in build quality ? between made in Turkey or China hmm if i were to hazard a guess not too much. if door catch breaks its a cheap replacement + service charge. And it will only happen after 2 years + 1 day

These factories are strategically located so that shipping costs to major markets are cheaper. Turkey & pOland serve Europe primarily. They don't sell 5.5kg models in Europe because they use duvets in cold weather which will not fit. The smallest size is 7KG so you see those sizes will come from poland, turkey or germany. They will not be importing from China as its too far away and not worth the cost.

Question to ask is
- is it cheaper to ship from China a 70kg box to India than it is from Turkey.
- do more more units come from China or Turkey.

These will play a factor in the price.

There is a difference in features, the wax has the ones you will need most of the time, cottons, mixes & delicates. Rinse & hold, pausing and timer and rinse plus.

wab has little more programs and 'intensive'. Do you get lots of dirty clothes to wash as in drenched in sweat. Then you need intensive program otherwise not. It can be useful with difficult stains but only for cotton. Personally i'd go with it as i'd rather have it and not need it than the other way. did you find your siemens just could not get some clothes clean. then intensive might be useful, assuming your siemens did not have intensive setting. if it did then you want the wab.

Difference of motor that can handle 5.5kg vs 6kg. Did motor on siemens conk out in five years ? no. ever it does its a cheap belt replacement. Motor does not conk out. Its the drum that goes.

Bought the WAB16260IN for 29.4K, i spoke with the ezone people about the extended warranty bit and yes it is more or less an insurance kind of thing, so we got that as well, iam not banking on it too much but if it does work well ill be benefited.

 

[blr_p]

Nice, so how does it compare with the previous siemens ?

 

[ubergeek]

Nice, so how does it compare with the previous siemens ?

I am yet to receive the washing machine once I receive it I'll let you know about every thing

 

[ubergeek]

After many delays the bosch guy came and installed the washing machine, i havent had much time with it will explore the washing machine thoroughly on sunday, as you said the door catch is made of plastic hope it lasts, yesterday i just covered the washing machine with a washing maching cover, in order to put it i had to remove the water connection to the tap, now after putting the cover i find it difficult to reattach the water inlet to the tap , after i screw it on the water keeps leaking. also for the water inlet the bosch guy charged 280rs saying the old one will not be comaptible with the new washing machine

 

[blr_p]

Err, the door catch is made of plastic for the WAX models, did not think the WAB ones were the same too. You will have to close it gently, don't slam. Should be ok. You don't want to play with the water inlet too much as this machine requires a minimum pressure (unlike your previous non lcd display siemens) otherwise it will throw a low water pressure e7 error. When set up properly it should work properly as your tank is high enough.

 

[ubergeek]

Err, the door catch is made of plastic for the WAX models, did not think the WAB ones were the same too. You will have to close it gently, don't slam. Should be ok. You don't want to play with the water inlet too much as this machine requires a minimum pressure (unlike your previous non lcd display siemens) otherwise it will throw a low water pressure e7 error. When set up properly it should work properly as your tank is high enough.

Can you please advise which detergent brand i should use for the washing machine

 

[blr_p]

Ariel. There are two types, the matic one is more expensive and should be used with 60 degree & above washes. Then there is the regular which i think you can get away with 40 degree and below. Actually forty degrees is a minimum if you want proper cleaning, avoid the quick wash programs. Only for delicates go lower than forty degrees.

If you use regular ariel higher than 40 degrees it will over foam and cause a mess. Actually this needs to be tested with small loads but some have said it works, if so then you have a 10% saving right there but keep in mind not to use it at higher temps.

The tricky part is the dosage. Since your water is hard you will need to use a quarter measure more than recommended. This will help to a certain extent to counter hardness but if your water is too hard it won't be able to do more. Only way you will find out is if you do a hardness test of your water. TDS meters aren't appropriate for this.

Surf is another alternative but its more expensive. surf & Ariel are tier-1 brands that are best for the machine. Avoid the tier-2 (Tide) or lower as they don't look after the machine too well, cannot counter hard water like the premium brands. But are ok with top loaders.

Remember to do a maintenance boil wash once a month to disinfect the machine. Not necessary if you hot hot water washes at least once a week.

 

[ubergeek]

Ariel. There are two types, the matic one is more expensive and should be used with 60 degree & above washes. Then there is the regular which i think you can get away with 40 degree and below. Actually forty degrees is a minimum if you want proper cleaning, avoid the quick wash programs. Only for delicates go lower than forty degrees.

If you use regular ariel higher than 40 degrees it will over foam and cause a mess. Actually this needs to be tested with small loads but some have said it works, if so then you have a 10% saving right there but keep in mind not to use it at higher temps.

The tricky part is the dosage. Since your water is hard you will need to use a quarter measure more than recommended. This will help to a certain extent to counter hardness but if your water is too hard it won't be able to do more. Only way you will find out is if you do a hardness test of your water. TDS meters aren't appropriate for this.

Surf is another alternative but its more expensive. surf & Ariel are tier-1 brands that are best for the machine. Avoid the tier-2 (Tide) or lower as they don't look after the machine too well, cannot counter hard water like the premium brands. But are ok with top loaders.

Remember to do a maintenance boil wash once a month to disinfect the machine. Not necessary if you hot hot water washes at least once a week.

Hi blr_p,

Just finished my first wash, and it took roughly an hour, with Intensive option selected, and spi speed was keept at 400RPM, i used 60G Surf excel matic powder. the quality of wash is quite good, far better than my servant. i 14 clothes into the machine, during the spin cycle the machine was vibrating a bit not much though. but i was wondering whether the number of clothes were less?. here is a pic i took before starting the wash.

Also i have few more question
1. after a wash cycle shoud i take a cloth and wipe the drum?
2. how long should i keep the door open for the drum to dry out??
3. Should i close the water inlet after finishing a wash?

 

[blr_p]

The loading in your picture is about right. Could take a little more (couple more items) , a hands width from the top of the opening to the clothes is the general rule of thumb.

1&2. a few hours should do it. No need to wipe the drum.
3. no need to close the water inlet. Only if you go on vacation for an extended period of time. If you have a tap that controls the water to the machine you can close it but it isn't strictly necessary. The water pressure on its own closes the valve.

From what you said you got the balance just about right, if you find it vibrating too much, the machine will automatically stop the spin. In that case you will have to use some towels to even out the load. This can be hit or miss, if it refuses to spin again that means out of balance, just take the clothes out and dry them on the line.

How was the installation done ? did they use any struts to anchor the machine in place on the floor or is just free standing. In which case describe what they did to level it.

 

[ubergeek]

The loading in your picture is about right. Could take a little more (couple more items) , a hands width from the top of the opening to the clothes is the general rule of thumb.

1&2. a few hours should do it. No need to wipe the drum.
3. no need to close the water inlet. Only if you go on vacation for an extended period of time. If you have a tap that controls the water to the machine you can close it but it isn't strictly necessary. The water pressure on its own closes the valve.

From what you said you got the balance just about right, if you find it vibrating too much, the machine will automatically stop the spin. In that case you will have to use some towels to even out the load. This can be hit or miss, if it refuses to spin again that means out of balance, just take the clothes out and dry them on the line.

How was the installation done ? did they use any struts to anchor the machine in place on the floor or is just free standing. In which case describe what they did to level it.

Yes they tightened the legs of the machine in place using a tool. after the installation was done I had to move the washing machine a bit to the left since water splashes the place when cleaning vessels. But the machine is not wobbly it is standing firm in its place. Thanks for the answers