90K+ Water-cooled mini-ITX build

[rdst_1]

This is exactly what I want to do.

1. What is your budget?
   • 150-200K
2. What is your existing hardware configuration (component name - component brand and model)Nothing
3. Which hardware will you be keeping (component name - component brand and model)Nothing
4. Which hardware component are you looking to buy (component name). If you have already decided on a configuration then please mention the (component brand and model) as well, this will help us in fine tuning your requirement.
   • CPU - Intel i7 4770k
   • Motherboard - Z87 mini-ITX. I am leaning towards the Asus Z87-Deluxe, but horror stories about Rashi may make me change my decision. Integrated wi-fi is kinda important as well.
   • GPU - Integrated GPU for now. Will add a EVGA GTX780 Hydrocopper version later on. Also if I can get a GPU (which comes installed with a water cooling compatible heatsink ) locally then I would prefer that.
   • PSU - Keeping in mind that I will add a 780 and need to power the pump I would guess an 850 watter should do the trick. Please suggest the best possible. Would like to buy Corsair for their 7 years warranty. Will definitely need a modular one.
   • RAM - 16GB 1600MHz CAS-9
   • Storage - I have 2 external HDDs totaling 7TB. In this build I will only be installing an SSD. I was thinking of 2x 256GB SSD in RAID-1 for safety of data. Plextor M5P or Samsung 840Pro would suffice.
   • Case - Bitfenix Prodigy. Will choose color depending on motherboard and RAM color scheme.
   • Keyboard - Would love to buy a mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches as this rig is primarily gonna be used for a lot of coding. Would prefer wireless.
   • Mouse - I don't game a lot using the mouse and keyboard because I am a XBox controller guy. Something to complement the keyboard would be nice.
   • Speakers - Currently satisfied with my Edifier C2.
   • Monitor - This is something I am really confused about. Since I am in the market for a new TV,ideally I would like to use it as my monitor as well. Since this is an extreme sort of build, if I do get a monitor I would end up spending a lot because I don't wanna settle for a mediocre monitor. If I do end up buying a monitor I have my eye on an Asus 27" PLS display which is available for around 26k.
   • Water cooling - Till I am not adding the graphics card, I think a Corsair H100 should suffice. I might end up ordering both the card and the water-cooling stuff together a few months down the line. I am gonna stick with the choices this guy made in the video above.
   • Chair - Last, but not the least I would like you to suggest a good chair which would help me maintain my posture as I would end up sitting in front of the PC for long hours at a stretch.
5. Is this going to be your final configuration or you would be adding/upgrading a component in near future. If yes then please mention when and which componentFinal config apart from adding graphics card later.
6. Where will you buy this hardware? (Online/City/TE Dealer)
   • Open to online purchase
   • Chandigarh
   • Can even import stuff from US if it is not available locally but would prefer that as the last resort.
7. Would you consider buying a second hand hardware from the TE market
   • No.
8. What is your intended use for this PC/hardware
   • Gaming
   • Coding
   • Desktop Processing
   • HTPC
   • Watching HD movies
9. Do you have any brand preference or dislike? Please name them and the reason for your preference/dislike.
   • I have been out of the computer hardware world for nearly 4 years now. I haven't had to RMA anything for quite a while. Please let me know which manufacturers are still bad.I have stayed away from MSI because of the recent rumors.
10. If you will be playing games then which type of games will you be playing?
    • Strategy
    • Racing
11. What is your preferred monitor resolution for gaming and normal usage
    1. Gaming - 2560x1440 (If I end up buying a monitor I would like to game at the highest resolution available)
    2. Desktop - 1440x900.
12. Are you looking to overclock?
    • Definitely.
13. Which operating system do you intend to use with this configuration?
    • Windows 7 64 bit

It has been 5 long years since I built myself a PC and 3 or so years since I lost interest in being a PC-enthusiast. I was looking to buy an Alienware or a Sager/Clevo to replace my laptop but I realized I rarely need that kinda performance when I am out of the house. Plus I had always wanted to do a water-cooled build. My brother is moving to Pune to do a Game programming course at DSK Supainfocom and will be taking the PC with him so this struck me as the perfect opportunity to finally build my dream rig ( having some saved up moolah also doesn't hurt).
I have spent far too long behind a laptop so I have lost some interest in gaming. Having a brother who is always on the PC either designing games or playing them doesn't help either. I am pretty sure that once I get back to a big screen and a powerful PC, the love for gaming will return. However this is the sole reason I have left out the graphics card at this moment.

I will be doing a good amount of freelance work from this PC and Visual Studio will be running a lot. Also seeing my brother code, I have also gained some interest in game programming, so I might dabble some in Unity and the likes.

Please ask anything and I will be happy to oblige. PC will be running in an AC room with an ambient temperature of 25-28C, apart from winters.

 

[cyberwarfare]

If your going in for a Watercooled M-Itx build, please please wait till the ASUS MAximus VI Impact is released. It will be EPIC!!!
Apart from that, everything seems to be in order. I cant wait for your build log

 

[rdst_1]

If your going in for a Watercooled M-Itx build, please please wait till the ASUS MAximus VI Impact is released. It will be EPIC!!!
Apart from that, everything seems to be in order. I cant wait for your build log

I won't disappoint anyone. I will document and post my build log over here with as many pics as possible.
Earlier I used to research quite well before I used to ask here for advice. This time around I decided not to do so because then I used to find it difficult to change my mind. I can wait for the motherboard you mentioned provided it isn't launching in 2014. Please keep me informed about it's launch.

I was reading and found that Haswell isn't that enthusiast friendly when it comes to overclocking but it doesn't make sense to me not to go for Haswell right now especially since the same chipset will be compatible with Broadwell.

Also I am very open to looking at AMD components. My current rig has PII X4 965 and a 6950. But like I said I haven't looked around regarding computer hardware since the past 3 years.

As of right now the only thing that I am sure of is the Bitfenix Prodigy. It is relatively cheap and still offers the most room to build a pretty powerful yet compact system. It takes a normal ATX PSU and if you only install a couple of SSDs like I am gonna and don't install an ODD, it can easily take 1 Dual 120mm radiator and 2 more 140mm radiators. Plus with liquid cooling it will run very quiet, depending upon my choice of fans.

 

[cyberwarfare]

I won't disappoint anyone. I will document and post my build log over here with as many pics as possible.
Earlier I used to research quite well before I used to ask here for advice. This time around I decided not to do so because then I used to find it difficult to change my mind. I can wait for the motherboard you mentioned provided it isn't launching in 2014. Please keep me informed about it's launch.

I was reading and found that Haswell isn't that enthusiast friendly when it comes to overclocking but it doesn't make sense to me not to go for Haswell right now especially since the same chipset will be compatible with Broadwell.

Also I am very open to looking at AMD components. My current rig has PII X4 965 and a 6950. But like I said I haven't looked around regarding computer hardware since the past 3 years.

As of right now the only thing that I am sure of is the Bitfenix Prodigy. It is relatively cheap and still offers the most room to build a pretty powerful yet compact system. It takes a normal ATX PSU and if you only install a couple of SSDs like I am gonna and don't install an ODD, it can easily take 1 Dual 120mm radiator and 2 more 140mm radiators. Plus with liquid cooling it will run very quiet, depending upon my choice of fans.

From what i hear, the impact will be available by the end of next month, maybe early september at the latest. Going for haswell for a scratch build is not a bad idea, so long as you keep your oc expectations down. I would say 4.4-.45 will be very doable, but anything more and expect to have a loot of cooling at had (im talking a double 360rad). Memory oc on the hand willbe ridiculously easy. I was able to hit 2666 in 10 minutes of messing about. also, i would suggest the swiftech h220 kit as it is very easily customisable and can handle your requirements with ease. its available locally from tirupathi. all you would have to do is add another radiator and a GPU block and thats it. it has a built in reservoir and a pump unit. best of all, this wont void your warranty at all

 

[cranky]

First off, this sounds like a good build and logically thought through.

Note that a water setup will run either at same or slightly higher noise level than a good air setup at idle, due to the added noise of the pump and additional fans. Load is altogether a different story, whereas air cooling will ramp up fan speeds and make an unbearable racket, I've never noticed any difference between idle and load noise in my setup unless running maxed out in summer.

A few points.

1. RAID 1 for an OS drive makes no sense if your data is external. Drive imaging accomplishes the same thing and you don't seem to have a space crunch. If you can do two SSDs in Raid 0 then fine, else a single SSD is sufficient.

2. Forget AMD at this level of build, unless you want to invest the money saved into an even better GPU. Only dinosaurs like me are still using AMD at the high end where the savings do not make sense anymore with the way Intel has driven down power consumption and TDPs.

3. I can't understand why your desktop resolution would be less than your gaming resolution, please explain?

4. Forget the H100, it's not a high end cooler by any stretch of the imagination. You need to be looking at custom loops at this level of rig, plus it gives you the flexibility of putting GPUs in the loop. Asus has some GPUs with combined air/water cooling, I would ask around and see when they become available. The biggest problem in an air loop is the fan noise of the GPU while gaming. Whereas improvements have happened over the years, it's still not anywhere close to a proper bunch of 120s cooling the card. Open-air cGPU oolers are not advised for a water setup though, as the fans push all the hot air from the GPU into the radiator. I simply don't see why anyone who spends that much on a rig+water should not put a GPU on water as well. My pair of 6970s has never crossed 60 degrees, this is with 42 ambient in Gurgaon during summer.

Good Luck with that build.

 

[amitkher]

I was thinking of 2x 256GB SSD in RAID-1 for safety of data. Plextor M5P or Samsung 840Pro would suffice.

1. RAID has very little to do with safety of data. RAID is not backup.

2. Tom says even RAID-0 is not an extremely mindblowing idea for performance enthusiasts - but no harm if you have backups.

 

[rdst_1]

From what i hear, the impact will be available by the end of next month, maybe early september at the latest. Going for haswell for a scratch build is not a bad idea, so long as you keep your oc expectations down. I would say 4.4-.45 will be very doable, but anything more and expect to have a loot of cooling at had (im talking a double 360rad). Memory oc on the hand willbe ridiculously easy. I was able to hit 2666 in 10 minutes of messing about. also, i would suggest the swiftech h220 kit as it is very easily customisable and can handle your requirements with ease. its available locally from tirupathi. all you would have to do is add another radiator and a GPU block and thats it. it has a built in reservoir and a pump unit. best of all, this wont void your warranty at all

Any idea if Tirupathi can also make available other items from Swiftech. I would prefer a full liquid cooling setup as I plan to add a liquid cooled GPU later as well.

 

[rdst_1]

First off, this sounds like a good build and logically thought through.

Note that a water setup will run either at same or slightly higher noise level than a good air setup at idle, due to the added noise of the pump and additional fans. Load is altogether a different story, whereas air cooling will ramp up fan speeds and make an unbearable racket, I've never noticed any difference between idle and load noise in my setup unless running maxed out in summer.

A few points.

1. RAID 1 for an OS drive makes no sense if your data is external. Drive imaging accomplishes the same thing and you don't seem to have a space crunch. If you can do two SSDs in Raid 0 then fine, else a single SSD is sufficient.

2. Forget AMD at this level of build, unless you want to invest the money saved into an even better GPU. Only dinosaurs like me are still using AMD at the high end where the savings do not make sense anymore with the way Intel has driven down power consumption and TDPs.

3. I can't understand why your desktop resolution would be less than your gaming resolution, please explain?

4. Forget the H100, it's not a high end cooler by any stretch of the imagination. You need to be looking at custom loops at this level of rig, plus it gives you the flexibility of putting GPUs in the loop. Asus has some GPUs with combined air/water cooling, I would ask around and see when they become available. The biggest problem in an air loop is the fan noise of the GPU while gaming. Whereas improvements have happened over the years, it's still not anywhere close to a proper bunch of 120s cooling the card. Open-air cGPU oolers are not advised for a water setup though, as the fans push all the hot air from the GPU into the radiator. I simply don't see why anyone who spends that much on a rig+water should not put a GPU on water as well. My pair of 6970s has never crossed 60 degrees, this is with 42 ambient in Gurgaon during summer.

Good Luck with that build.

1. I will be handling some projects in which the client data will be critical. That is the only reason I was even thinking of Raid-1. However if I do regular backups then it might not be necessary.

2. Ok. So bye-bye to AMD for now.

3. That meant that I would scale the resolution to 1440x900 manually so as to be able to read the text without putting too much strain on my eyes.

4. The H100 is to be a temporary solution till I am able to decide whether I need a graphics card or not.

Can you also guide me regarding the monitor and the chair. IIRC you had some experience with back problems due to posture and you had researched regarding which chair would be better. Also any idea about the Cherry MX Blue keyboards and their availability.

Someone at the other forums mentioned Parvum Systems cases and now I have been browsing all day reading about the magnificent custom builds that people do. Now I am not a great modder or tinkerer but I can be a little creative and I might end up getting a custom case built locally. I am gonna do a lot of research regarding that,but work on that will only start once I have decided and ordered all the other components.

Since the ROG board will be Red and Black themed, I am thinking of getting the Corsair Vengeance to complement the board. As for the cooling setup either red tubes or clear tubes with Red UV reactive dye and White Dual Cold Cathode kit to illuminate the rig.

 

[cyberwarfare]

Any idea if Tirupathi can also make available other items from Swiftech. I would prefer a full liquid cooling setup as I plan to add a liquid cooled GPU later as well.

the h220 and the h320 can do a full loop without any issue. i doubt they will make more stuff available here.

 

[cranky]

3. That meant that I would scale the resolution to 1440x900 manually so as to be able to read the text without putting too much strain on my eyes.

This, to me, is an issue. Do note that all LCD scalers result in fairly poor results, so though the text size is larger, it is blurrier. Instead you should run native and use larger themes so Windows renders the icons. For understanding, a monitor does not know which is an icon, what is text and what is image. Therefore it 'magnifies' everything. Windows is able to render the icons and text as vectors, hence retaining sharpness as well as size. This is adjustable from Windows Desktop appearance settings.

Can you also guide me regarding the monitor and the chair. IIRC you had some experience with back problems due to posture and you had researched regarding which chair would be better.

A 30" monitor with 2560x will have lower PPI and be readable at native resolution and screen size a little easier than a 27" running at the same settings. However it does kill your budget quite a bit, only you can work out whether you want it or not. The only two options available in India, AFAIK, are the Apple Cinema Display and the U3014. One other way to go is surround gaming with multiple 1920x displays, but it doesn't seem to me that the primary purpose is to game anyway - you can clarify this.

Do note that lower PPI displays work better with poor quality source material and at higher distances. If sitting close the performance changes. So a 30" 2560x display looks great from a foot or so away, but at a distance of over 3 feet a 27" 1920x display will have the edge due to the larger pixel size. I did see you asking for a TV/monitor display choice, frankly the two are never interchangeable, at least not yet.

I had a muscular strain in my lower back a few months ago, and I had to stop using a laptop, change my posture and many of my habits along with adding a lot of very specific exercises to my routine. I could not sit in any chair for over an hour. I finally 'upgraded' to a Featherlite model, this one: http://www.featherliteindia.com/product-gallery.html/executive-chairs/11926.htm I have the high back version with the headrest. I can spend three hours or a bit more in it long as I take a break every half hour. I test drove a lot of chairs before selecting it, the Godrej ones were too hard (which you may prefer) and the local ones were too wobbly. You have to buy the chair depending on your specific needs, but an adjustable and generously sized lumbar support is non-negotiable for those with a back issue. Headrest may or may be required, depending on how much you lean back. I prefer mesh chairs because they keep the back cool, if you have a 24x7 AC environment you may think about leather/PU chairs.

There are other options, and some backless/ergonomic chairs offer the ability to force your spine to correct posture, but you can't get comfortable in those. Do remember that the definition of ergonomic is to adjust totally to your body and offer full support to all parts. By definition therefore, no one chair will suit everybody, so try out as many as you can.

 

[rdst_1]

Thank you for the detailed reply. I got your point regarding the resolution and will adjust the DPI instead of the resolution. The 3014 costs 80k and that is certainly out of reach. The primary purpose is not for gaming but I will game occasionally once I get the graphics card. The Asus 27 incher got decent reviews but certainly not as good as the Dell U2711 but the price difference is around 18k, so I might get the Asus one.

I will try out chairs locally and even go to Delhi if I don't find good choices over here in Chandigarh.

 

[stalker]

If you really want to do this properly (as in REAL mITX and not fake mATX masquerading as mITX) you need to get this - http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ncase-m1-prototype-a-mini-itx-case I'm just waiting for the production campaign to start (which should be sometime next month).
The M1 has been designed on [H] by the community and is being manufactured by LianLi on contract. While it will be slightly expensive it is MUCH smaller than the Prodify while also being much more versatile.

Do consider the $300 odd 27inchers from Korea you can get off of EBay. I just got myself a similar PLS panel and I'm very very happy with it. Will be posting impressions and pictures this weekend.

 

[rdst_1]

If you really want to do this properly (as in REAL mITX and not fake mATX masquerading as mITX) you need to get this - http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ncase-m1-prototype-a-mini-itx-case I'm just waiting for the production campaign to start (which should be sometime next month).
The M1 has been designed on [H] by the community and is being manufactured by LianLi on contract. While it will be slightly expensive it is MUCH smaller than the Prodify while also being much more versatile.

Do consider the $300 odd 27inchers from Korea you can get off of EBay. I just got myself a similar PLS panel and I'm very very happy with it. Will be posting impressions and pictures this weekend.

This sounds nice. Have you taken a look at Parvum Systems and some famous builds based on their cases. At this moment I am gonna use the internal chassis of the Prodigy and build custom panels around it. I am gonna remove the handles, the feet, the front, top and side panels and just use the remaining chassis inside a custom case of my own. I have some solid ideas on what I wanna build and have visualized most of the stuff. Will be getting it build from professionals because my modding skills are mediocre at best.

 

[rdst_1]

Ok.
I have decide to not use the Bitfenix Prodigy and get the case completely built from scratch.
Now since this is the first time I am dabbling with liquid cooling and a custom build, I had not anticipated it to be so expensive.
So finally, I am stuck with making some hard choices.

Firstly, the Asus ROG Impact isn't yet available and even when it will be in September, it will cost 32000. The Maximus VI extreme and the ROG Impact are priced the same at $399 and the Extreme's price in India is 32000. So if I am ready to move from mini-ITX to micro-ATX, I will be able to save 15000 and choose the Maximus VI Gene or the Asus Gryphon with the Armor kit. If I move to the micro-ATX,I also benefit by getting four RAM-dimms and 2 more PCI slots and hence expansion option for the future.

So what do you guys think?

 

[dafreaking]

I take it from your thread that one of the reasons why you are going with Mini ITX along with the Bitfenix prodigy is because of the video you have posted in the first post. Also, it seems you had prioritised form vs function (by adding lights, UV reactive liquid, etc). Now that you have realized the inherent cost of your components are you considering revising the 'bling' or is that still a priority?

 

[cyberwarfare]

Ok.
I have decide to not use the Bitfenix Prodigy and get the case completely built from scratch.
Now since this is the first time I am dabbling with liquid cooling and a custom build, I had not anticipated it to be so expensive.
So finally, I am stuck with making some hard choices.

Firstly, the Asus ROG Impact isn't yet available and even when it will be in September, it will cost 32000. The Maximus VI extreme and the ROG Impact are priced the same at $399 and the Extreme's price in India is 32000. So if I am ready to move from mini-ITX to micro-ATX, I will be able to save 15000 and choose the Maximus VI Gene or the Asus Gryphon with the Armor kit. If I move to the micro-ATX,I also benefit by getting four RAM-dimms and 2 more PCI slots and hence expansion option for the future.

So what do you guys think?

the impact will NOT be 32k. but i do expect a 20k+ price tag.
Coming to the gene or the gryphon, both a amazing boards (i would know since im working on reviewing them both). The gene is more capable of overclcoking, especially as far a ram is concerned. i was able to hit 2666mhz is a matter of minutes, and 2800 was not far. i suggest against a custom scratch case build, as a good one will set you back quite a bit and wont be worth the time or effort (unless someone professional does it). I suggest looking at the corsair 350D. it supports watercooling and should meet most if not all your needs. However storage will be a problem if your looking at dual 240mm rads.

 

[rdst_1]

the impact will NOT be 32k. but i do expect a 20k+ price tag.
Coming to the gene or the gryphon, both a amazing boards (i would know since im working on reviewing them both). The gene is more capable of overclcoking, especially as far a ram is concerned. i was able to hit 2666mhz is a matter of minutes, and 2800 was not far. i suggest against a custom scratch case build, as a good one will set you back quite a bit and wont be worth the time or effort (unless someone professional does it). I suggest looking at the corsair 350D. it supports watercooling and should meet most if not all your needs. However storage will be a problem if your looking at dual 240mm rads.

Are you sure about the Impact pricing. Because my initial choice was for the Asus Z87I Deluxe Dual and even that costs 22k. Plus like I said the Extreme and Impact are both priced at $399 and the Extreme is priced at 32k here in India.
Frankly I am not surprised. The Gene is priced at $200 and costs 17k over here. Going by the same logic, the Impact should cost around 32k.
As for the Gryphon, it looks beautiful once the Armour Kit is attached.
As for the scratch custom case, I should have been more clear. I am only designing the case. The actual work will be handled by professionals.

 

[cyberwarfare]

Are you sure about the Impact pricing. Because my initial choice was for the Asus Z87I Deluxe Dual and even that costs 22k. Plus like I said the Extreme and Impact are both priced at $399 and the Extreme is priced at 32k here in India.
Frankly I am not surprised. The Gene is priced at $200 and costs 17k over here. Going by the same logic, the Impact should cost around 32k.
As for the Gryphon, it looks beautiful once the Armour Kit is attached.
As for the scratch custom case, I should have been more clear. I am only designing the case. The actual work will be handled by professionals.

I am not 100% sure of the pricing, but its an educated guess. The impact wont be for 32k thats for sure.
Even if you design the case, do u know any profesinal modders who can handle such a job in india?? I do some basic modding like most others here and i know for a fact, that no one will do a job even half as good as what a factory based in china can spit out by the boat loads. The gryphon is a lovely lovely board and the kit only makes it even better. Have a look at my unboxing of both the gene and the gryphon here on TE

 

[rdst_1]

I am not 100% sure of the pricing, but its an educated guess. The impact wont be for 32k thats for sure.
Even if you design the case, do u know any profesinal modders who can handle such a job in india?? I do some basic modding like most others here and i know for a fact, that no one will do a job even half as good as what a factory based in china can spit out by the boat loads. The gryphon is a lovely lovely board and the kit only makes it even better. Have a look at my unboxing of both the gene and the gryphon here on TE

Don't worry mate. I don't want to spoil the surprise right now, but the kind of case I am designing, it can be made pretty easily by a professional here in Chandigarh just with some guidance.
I will definitely look at the unboxing of the Gene. I already checked out that of Gryphon. Any idea what is the cost of the Armour kit.

 

[cyberwarfare]

Don't worry mate. I don't want to spoil the surprise right now, but the kind of case I am designing, it can be made pretty easily by a professional here in Chandigarh just with some guidance.
I will definitely look at the unboxing of the Gene. I already checked out that of Gryphon. Any idea what is the cost of the Armour kit.

In that case, i hope you get the best results for the case
The gryphon kit should cost 3K ish, but let me find out and get back to you on that
That price is just an educated guess on my part.