arun_rulezzz
Discoverer
WCG 2008 - A bad dream?
- Thread starter Nemesis_41
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spindoctor
Explorer
^^ Dude if your not a pro gamer, (neither am I), and you cant do anything about it, then stfu. When people spend time on something, and they see it not happening, is very frustrating. If it can happen in Pakistan, it shouldn't be a big deal here either. And most games if not all, which are played in pro tournaments dont require uber fast hardware either, so it doesn't really become a expensive hobby.
Its really sad to hear the state of affairs. I hope something does work out for you guys! All the best!
Its really sad to hear the state of affairs. I hope something does work out for you guys! All the best!
The Sorcerer
Galvanizer
before spindoctor started flaming everyone , he did have a valid point. If some company messes up and then decides to leave it, even though you may feel obligated, there is no point in complaining about it here if those in charge here dont want to.
We had a similar issue when AMD india priced the 48XX cards way out of line. a lot of noise was made about that. But realise this. all these companies are not here to care for your well being. they are here to make a profit. everything else is just a means to that.What you care about or what is the right thing to do means jack to them. A business decision was made, and yes, most of us got the short end of the stick.
If you are going to complain about that, then i have bad news for you. The rest of the world sucks just as bad,Possibly even worse. You have to get used to it, or you do something about it. There really arent many other ways to get this done.
If you feel so strongly that it needs to be done, set up an organization, get the required sponsorship, infrastructure, manpower and funds , get a license and do it. Apparently pakistan has done it. Good for them.Saying that someone else didnt do it is just not good enough.
We had a similar issue when AMD india priced the 48XX cards way out of line. a lot of noise was made about that. But realise this. all these companies are not here to care for your well being. they are here to make a profit. everything else is just a means to that.What you care about or what is the right thing to do means jack to them. A business decision was made, and yes, most of us got the short end of the stick.
If you are going to complain about that, then i have bad news for you. The rest of the world sucks just as bad,Possibly even worse. You have to get used to it, or you do something about it. There really arent many other ways to get this done.
If you feel so strongly that it needs to be done, set up an organization, get the required sponsorship, infrastructure, manpower and funds , get a license and do it. Apparently pakistan has done it. Good for them.Saying that someone else didnt do it is just not good enough.
xtr.pwnzor
Contributor
Take @spindoc's negativity...swearing apart from his post..... he made the post correct answer to the original posters query... jokes aside... its just plain truth
The rest of guys have to understand that india is actually in a nascent state in gaming popularity and maybe the thing he said by rich man's hobby.. will be referring to 2 things...
1. the cost of PC parts..consoles...original games
2. the apparent piracy issue..
but yeas seeing as these are prevailing across the border and still they have better representation..its sad...
well then 1 thing left for u guys ..play hard..prove ur mettle...spending some money in ur starting phase wont hurt u... coz u guys will make many times back once u start winning....
or better yet ... why dont u guys start a consortium..or a web site..or a gamers petition..and take this upto the real folks..
The rest of guys have to understand that india is actually in a nascent state in gaming popularity and maybe the thing he said by rich man's hobby.. will be referring to 2 things...
1. the cost of PC parts..consoles...original games
2. the apparent piracy issue..
but yeas seeing as these are prevailing across the border and still they have better representation..its sad...
well then 1 thing left for u guys ..play hard..prove ur mettle...spending some money in ur starting phase wont hurt u... coz u guys will make many times back once u start winning....
or better yet ... why dont u guys start a consortium..or a web site..or a gamers petition..and take this upto the real folks..
Greenhorn i agree with you.. see im not saying spindoctor does not have a valid reason. There are ways to talk, and come out with your point. Diplomacy doesn't hurt. I run a business too i know how these decisions affect other people. But his attitude is just bad. No one wants to throw attitude around here hes forcing bad attitude down our throats for no reason.
I'm sorry if i hurt anyones personal feelings here but a jackass like that doesnt deserve any better. Period.
thanks for your support guys.
PS: just so you guys know.. a few indian gamers were placed in the top 25 in GGL tournaments last year. SO Please be sure of what you say before you comment. Thank you.
I'm sorry if i hurt anyones personal feelings here but a jackass like that doesnt deserve any better. Period.
thanks for your support guys.
PS: just so you guys know.. a few indian gamers were placed in the top 25 in GGL tournaments last year. SO Please be sure of what you say before you comment. Thank you.
The Sorcerer
Galvanizer
Its how spindoctor spoke that needed to be corrected.
I dont see how cost of pc parts and piracy got anything to do with gaming tourneys. pc that are used in tourneys arent flashy compared to other major national tourneys. They are dead basic config on dead basic settings. How many games are there in the tourney which needs new age system. Cs? warcraft? nfs?
Many people go to lan cafes REGULARLY even cs players. There have been cases that lan gaming owners made arrangements that 2 cs team can have their own head to head competition. There are small time competition held as well. It isnt much but it is enough to give a basic feel of lan gaming tourneys. There are enough players out there. But rather than progressing- its declining. When halo tourney advertisements were put in ten sports- DAMN it brought a good crowd and gave many people to show their skills. Then came microsoft's rts tourneys. I believe wcg started in 2001. I believe that pc gaming is very famous and its not rich man's hobby. So what went wrong? We had good set of gamers representing India in international stages and they do bring progress. So what going wrong in between? Event managers or sponsors?
I know wcg is handled by India Games and eswc was supposed to be handled by v-street. I used to play in esl-europe.net and ggl ages online ranking boards ago somewhere in the 90s. They made small but decent progress. Event grew alongwith player's skills. wwcl.de became big in europe in those days especially in the q3a days. Online league rankings was good and very competitive. Although we didnt have good online league rankings, lan tourneys was fantastic compared to the time NOW.
But its the event managers who is one who brings the spark in gaming tourneys. They learn from their mistake, take player's feedback and improve on them on the next tourney or league. That's how its meant to be done. Even if we take this to "the real folk', will it work?
I dont see how cost of pc parts and piracy got anything to do with gaming tourneys. pc that are used in tourneys arent flashy compared to other major national tourneys. They are dead basic config on dead basic settings. How many games are there in the tourney which needs new age system. Cs? warcraft? nfs?
Many people go to lan cafes REGULARLY even cs players. There have been cases that lan gaming owners made arrangements that 2 cs team can have their own head to head competition. There are small time competition held as well. It isnt much but it is enough to give a basic feel of lan gaming tourneys. There are enough players out there. But rather than progressing- its declining. When halo tourney advertisements were put in ten sports- DAMN it brought a good crowd and gave many people to show their skills. Then came microsoft's rts tourneys. I believe wcg started in 2001. I believe that pc gaming is very famous and its not rich man's hobby. So what went wrong? We had good set of gamers representing India in international stages and they do bring progress. So what going wrong in between? Event managers or sponsors?
I know wcg is handled by India Games and eswc was supposed to be handled by v-street. I used to play in esl-europe.net and ggl ages online ranking boards ago somewhere in the 90s. They made small but decent progress. Event grew alongwith player's skills. wwcl.de became big in europe in those days especially in the q3a days. Online league rankings was good and very competitive. Although we didnt have good online league rankings, lan tourneys was fantastic compared to the time NOW.
But its the event managers who is one who brings the spark in gaming tourneys. They learn from their mistake, take player's feedback and improve on them on the next tourney or league. That's how its meant to be done. Even if we take this to "the real folk', will it work?
sathyanaidu
Discoverer
spindoctor
Explorer
before all the insults started flying around i mentioned some points which i'll reiterate:
no, the i'm a progamer attitude does nothing. no one is obliged to make tournaments happen for you.
money talks. it's hard to see why you can't get that concept. a sponsor will not pay money if he doesn't think it's a worthwhile investment. in india apparently sponsors don't think it is. and remember a sponsor doesn't do it for you, they do it for themselves. shelling out money is not a philanthropic action.
if you can do better, then feel free to do so. put your money where your mouth is, figuratively speaking. organise tournaments, get sponsors, make it happen. indiagames has sucked for about 8 years now. is vishal gondal still the man incharge? he was a moron back when when the first wcg happened so i assume he still is one now.
also, replying to the sorcerer and generally people who have pointed out how it's not a rich person's hobby. you are looking at these things from your perspective, which is skewed because you do not fall in the category of average computer users. no, the average person will probably not even know what a dedicated video card is. they will be stuck with some onboard crap on their motherboard. the average person really cannot afford to spend 25 bucks an hour at a webworld for many hours, every day. yes cs and old versions of fifa might run but those are the people who will just play it for fun will never think of it competitively. just look at the first post where only a few hundred showed up for a tournament in a country of a billion. so don't kid yourself, gaming is not a mass market activity in india. as an example lets guage the webworlds - suppose there are 300 webworlds around the country and an average of what 50 dedicated gamers per? 15000 people to target? double that. triple it. it's still an insignificant number.
edit : oh and also, to those who think i don't know what i'm talking about. i've been watching this happen for years now. does anyone remember the cs clan [TUA]. wile, mad_toothbrush, ricky, jbi and strider? the first team to ever represent india in wcg? some of those guys are friends of mine so yea, that's how far back i go and even then these event organisers were ****ing up. that's why i'm not surprised.
no, the i'm a progamer attitude does nothing. no one is obliged to make tournaments happen for you.
money talks. it's hard to see why you can't get that concept. a sponsor will not pay money if he doesn't think it's a worthwhile investment. in india apparently sponsors don't think it is. and remember a sponsor doesn't do it for you, they do it for themselves. shelling out money is not a philanthropic action.
if you can do better, then feel free to do so. put your money where your mouth is, figuratively speaking. organise tournaments, get sponsors, make it happen. indiagames has sucked for about 8 years now. is vishal gondal still the man incharge? he was a moron back when when the first wcg happened so i assume he still is one now.
also, replying to the sorcerer and generally people who have pointed out how it's not a rich person's hobby. you are looking at these things from your perspective, which is skewed because you do not fall in the category of average computer users. no, the average person will probably not even know what a dedicated video card is. they will be stuck with some onboard crap on their motherboard. the average person really cannot afford to spend 25 bucks an hour at a webworld for many hours, every day. yes cs and old versions of fifa might run but those are the people who will just play it for fun will never think of it competitively. just look at the first post where only a few hundred showed up for a tournament in a country of a billion. so don't kid yourself, gaming is not a mass market activity in india. as an example lets guage the webworlds - suppose there are 300 webworlds around the country and an average of what 50 dedicated gamers per? 15000 people to target? double that. triple it. it's still an insignificant number.
edit : oh and also, to those who think i don't know what i'm talking about. i've been watching this happen for years now. does anyone remember the cs clan [TUA]. wile, mad_toothbrush, ricky, jbi and strider? the first team to ever represent india in wcg? some of those guys are friends of mine so yea, that's how far back i go and even then these event organisers were ****ing up. that's why i'm not surprised.
i'm going to have to agree with spindoc and greenhorn on this one. spindoc was not being rude in his posts, he just didnt sugar coat it the way greenie so eloquently did. thats just the way he posts: straight and to the point. any 'sub-prime' phrases put forth were either used in socially accepted context, or not directed at anyone in specific on these forums.
In fact, the flaming began with post #13, onwards and that wasnt even spindoc, and the post where he does flame was in response to the personal attacks in above mentioned posts. That doesnt justify him, but neither does it justify those who started it.
Those who criticized spindoc's so-called 'negativity' need to realize that analyzing anything objectively requires you to look at both the good and the bad. Ignoring the negative just because its considered unsavory is a form of delusion (and is very prevalent in discussions about patriotism and the like). I agree, that spindoc could have worded his argument a bit better considering an internet forum involves interacting with ppl who dont know you personally; but if you read posts like his (and all posts for that matter)your head and not your ego, you would notice that he had a valid point to make. Even if a personal attack is present in a post, ignore the attack and respond\challenge the points hes made and not attack him back. This will earn you a lot more respect in the community and in life in general.
Point being, chill the hell out and lean back. Life is waaay too long to be spent being pissed off at people.
In fact, the flaming began with post #13, onwards and that wasnt even spindoc, and the post where he does flame was in response to the personal attacks in above mentioned posts. That doesnt justify him, but neither does it justify those who started it.
Those who criticized spindoc's so-called 'negativity' need to realize that analyzing anything objectively requires you to look at both the good and the bad. Ignoring the negative just because its considered unsavory is a form of delusion (and is very prevalent in discussions about patriotism and the like). I agree, that spindoc could have worded his argument a bit better considering an internet forum involves interacting with ppl who dont know you personally; but if you read posts like his (and all posts for that matter)your head and not your ego, you would notice that he had a valid point to make. Even if a personal attack is present in a post, ignore the attack and respond\challenge the points hes made and not attack him back. This will earn you a lot more respect in the community and in life in general.
Point being, chill the hell out and lean back. Life is waaay too long to be spent being pissed off at people.
india is one of the backward countries in gaming seriously,the games and hardware are expensive according to normal indian living standards and worse of all parents keep nagging why dont you do something useful rather than playing some stupid games.this is why we have very few sponsors in india
Deepcee
Contributor
Speaking of Sponsors...
Culture: Bottled Food Becomes Official Grub of World Cyber Games USA
If someone is willing to come up with a niche product aimed directly at gamers even calling it Gamer Grub.
Shows you the faith they have in what they are putting their money into.
"Build it and they will come"
If they don't build it...sucks for us.
Culture: Bottled Food Becomes Official Grub of World Cyber Games USA
If someone is willing to come up with a niche product aimed directly at gamers even calling it Gamer Grub.
Shows you the faith they have in what they are putting their money into.
"Build it and they will come"
If they don't build it...sucks for us.
arun_rulezzz
Discoverer
i dont know why everyones on about " this is how the system works" "this is what companies want" etc. thats bullcrap.
this is what i think-
if im going to say " **** man, i practiced for wcg and it isnt even happening "
i dont want some random ****er (spindoc) to say
"oh , dont you know - sponsors want this and want that "
**** you.
you think being a pro gamer this long i wouldnt know how the system works ? before you i was the one telling everyone on forums that THIS is how gaming competitions happen. especially after WINNING the tournaments. because when i won people would listen to me. its not the gamer is the sponsor and what they want. so dont give me that bullshit pitch about how things work, im one of the persons responsible for bringing out all the tactics companies come up with to get money and how less important the gamer is.
i agree with what you say, but dont think for a second i dont know what youre talking about or any of the others here about what companies want. if im disappointed and say "****, this sucks" . let me be in peace. i dont want to know something i already know from an idiot angry about losing the only tournament he played in.
xxpeacexx
this is what i think-
if im going to say " **** man, i practiced for wcg and it isnt even happening "
i dont want some random ****er (spindoc) to say
"oh , dont you know - sponsors want this and want that "
**** you.
you think being a pro gamer this long i wouldnt know how the system works ? before you i was the one telling everyone on forums that THIS is how gaming competitions happen. especially after WINNING the tournaments. because when i won people would listen to me. its not the gamer is the sponsor and what they want. so dont give me that bullshit pitch about how things work, im one of the persons responsible for bringing out all the tactics companies come up with to get money and how less important the gamer is.
i agree with what you say, but dont think for a second i dont know what youre talking about or any of the others here about what companies want. if im disappointed and say "****, this sucks" . let me be in peace. i dont want to know something i already know from an idiot angry about losing the only tournament he played in.
xxpeacexx
saumilsingh
Galvanizer
I think I'll let slip out something before things get ugly.
His first post was very much serious and wasn't directed at anyone (no smilies != rude).
But after Arun started throwing the F words around, spindoc decided to finger wounds just for the heck of it.
Learn to spot a flamebait, heh.
His first post was very much serious and wasn't directed at anyone (no smilies != rude).
But after Arun started throwing the F words around, spindoc decided to finger wounds just for the heck of it.
Learn to spot a flamebait, heh.
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