What is the reason Indians call others Sir, Madam or Saheb etc?

[6pack]

How tf is it entitlement to call someone properly? Would it be okay if I kept calling a guy named Arun as Anil? Even though I know his name is Arun? If I did that I'd be an a-hole. There are no two sides to this.


That teacher went out of his way to do that. If he doesn't 'believe' in transgender people (whatever tf that means btw, no scientists would say otherwise) then he shouldn't get SR surgery himself. But he doesn't get to dictate others. If John wants be called as Jane then call her Jane. Don't go out of your way to be a d--k.


Nobody does that apart fictional people in from anecdotes by right wing chuds.

It's clear from where you and others getting their views. And that shit needs to be called out. We don't need the sh-t that's going on in US in this country. We have enough on our plate.

Yeah. There was that gamergate bullshit that I got caught up in briefly. Thankfully I didn't go down that road.

Yeah they can but in my experience they're really terrible at it.

Do you know who said that? Kevin Alfred Strom, a neo-nazi and a holocaust denier. Maybe find out where you're getting quotes from before spouting them like a parrot.

I wanted to answer you properly but these sentences took me back.

There are no two sides to this.

It's clear from where you and others getting their views. And that shit needs to be called out.


How do you know the news paper was writing the truth? How do you know the school was talking the truth?

You blame others for falling for propaganda but your views are just as bad as Foxnews hosts or Trump supporters. Maybe you fell for propaganda but you don't know better because your anger took the better of you.

So, i won't respond anymore. Thanks for letting me know what kind of mentality you have. I just wanted to have a discussion but you don't seem like they type to keep discussion civil. You get angry just by looking at a wall of text. Goodbye.

 

[Mr.J]

How do you know the news paper was writing the truth? How do you know the school was talking the truth?

Because I have seen the places that regurgitate this bs. Been observing this American idiocy on the internet for almost a decade now and it's very easy to spot.

You blame others for falling for propaganda but your views are just as bad as Foxnews hosts or Trump supporters. Maybe you fell for propaganda but you don't know better because your anger took the better of you.

Ah yes. One side is taking away the rights of individuals and another side is opposed to that. Somehow both are equal.

Maybe we should also listen to both sides when it comes to fascism and authoritarians.

I have barely posted any views of mine. All I did was question the rhetoric that you have posted.

So, i won't respond anymore. Thanks for letting me know what kind of mentality you have. I just wanted to have a discussion but you don't seem like they type to keep discussion civil. You get angry just by looking at a wall of text. Goodbye.

Great. Looks like you didn't have answer to any questions I raised so you took to attacking me instead.

 

[asingh]

TEUser2K1, please quote properly and not use a ">"; it is difficult to follow.

 

[TEUser2K1]

Okay, will that keep in mind.
Though few months earlier, someone else commented against it, they considered directly mentioning their userid as a personal attack against them than debating their opinion. Anyways...

 

[blr_p]

> Again, the school got a restraining order. He was sent to jail for violating the order, not for his refusal of pronouns which is ridiculous.

The school got restraining order because he raised pronouns issue, Burke interrupted a church service held to mark the school’s 260th anniversary, which was attended by clergy, staff, past and present pupils, parents, and board members. The issue was about pronouns to begin with.
The root cause and restrain order which was violated by him was about pronouns to be used at specific class of people raised by Burke in the church function. Its all about pronouns.

The issue is getting suspended for refusing to comply with pronouns.

The guy can't teach at that school because he won't use pronouns. Isn't that bad enough?

So what does he do? Maybe he felt the only way to bring attention to his issue was to escalate matters. Make a scene.

Forget about the jail bit. It follows as a consequence of his actions after. The jail part is the hook in the story that brought the publicity, not the main part.

My guess is this happened at a state school. So he's a state employee, teachers union nationwide bla bla. He thinks the union will back him which is not a given.

A private school would have handled it differently.

I have realized over time that its somehow the nerds who are often most susceptible to such propaganda.. I have some theories about how this came to be - but that would be a major digression :lol

Make a new thread and let's see what you got

I'm talking about people forcing their views on others. Think about it from both the sides instead of just one side. The person who was born one gender and wants everyone to call him as her or whatever one day is pushing his/her view on others by forcing others to bend to their whims. That is major entitlement imo. They are the person who decided to be called differently. Even if the other party does not want to call them by their preferred pronoun they should be the ones who should compromise because they are the ones who believe they are different.

Do you have a name? Can people call you something else?

Let's say someone keeps changing their pronoun as and when they feel different will you keep up with their antics? I'm sure you will say yes and good for you.

Won't matter what you call this lot because either way works.

This pronouns bit is amusing for me. The hard part is remembering what to call them. Helps if there are visual cues. Online is harder and requires more familiarity.

I remember this lab tech who in my first year was a 'he' but a few years later became a 'she'. Visibily. Long hair with lipstick. It was a surprise.

Slavoj Žižek

This guy is very interesting, reminds me in a way of a Slavic Ashish Nandy.

I was going through the democrat manifesto as the election was nearing and searched for the word Indian just to get a sense of what they thought of us.

To my surprise, i got more than 90 hits. Thinking oh what is this? Then as I went through it they were actually referring to Native Americans.

There was only one mention of India in that whole manifesto.

 

[TEUser2K1]

Use 'teacher', which is more gender-neutral than 'sir' or 'madam': Kerala child rights panel

Thiruvananthapuram: All school teachers, irrespective of their gender, should be addressed as 'teacher' instead of 'sir' or 'madam', the Kerala child rights panel has directed. 'Teacher' is a more gender-neutral term than honorifics like 'sir' or 'madam'

english.mathrubhumi.com

In local usage, male teachers were generally called ''maashu' and females 'teacher' in school level.
Professors were called sir or madam... In school level, male teachers are hugely outnumbered by females.
The kind of burning issue which needed addressing... Funny this shit is catching up...

 

[frozenscotch]

Not related to thread but have seen some posts regarding gender, so, check this comedy

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615657947937529857

 

[Mr.J]

Not related to thread but have seen some posts regarding gender, so, check this comedy

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615657947937529857

Piers Morgan

 

[rootyme]

We Indians are permanently STUCK into the ROT of belittling our own self-worth - with Obeisance to Elders/Seniors - which results in SERVILITY [Just CUT THE CRAP OF INDIAN ROOTED TRADITIONS of Deep Respect & Blah Blah .... ]

Think, how this has grown into our genes - so much so that Parents & Children are distanced by this permanent bond of OBEISANCE - in the false premise of Respect!

RESPECT - CAN ONLY COME - When a Parent & Child treats each other EQUALLY [No matter the age or life's experiences - Just look at the Americans!]

We have some great things to learn from each country and America is no exception. But I don't think you are supposed to learn mannerism from Americans. You want your kids to call you by your name? I am not sure how common it is but I have definitely seen this. Lol.

Regrading "sir":

Nothing wrong with that bar the "inferiority complex" so clearly visible in your comment. I am not sure why you see the Indian culture as crappy. Nothing wrong with being respectful to some stranger or somebody higher up in the ranks or much older in age. Humility is a great virtue to have. Your words are reflective of your class and mannerisms.

Those who want to be friendly with/around you will tell you themselves to call them by their names. That's how you ease into somebody.

And no, being respectful to somebody doesn't lower your worth. It's one of the most bizarre statements that I have ever read.

Children should definitely be respectful to their parents/elders. Rowdy kids are obnoxious.

That being said, how does one address a mail to a company/authority when he doesn't know who he is writing to? Are you going to write "Hello Mr.X", "Hi Mrs Y", "Dear Miss Z"?

 

[ssslayer]

LOL @ thread since most people seem to be stuck up with the idea that we Indians have a servile nature.
That we Indian love to be in position of being servant to another and that's why we address others as Sir. (Perhaps alluding to european colonization and of past muslim invaders?)

Sorry, no, it is the other way round. We Indians love MAKING others our servants, and that's inflates our ego. And that's why we love being addressed as Sirs.
That is how the ecosystem is, and why you must address the other as Sir in order to be on the good books and/or get your work done.

Of course, additionally, our culture always had a joint family culture where elders demand/are given respect, and the word - Sir acts as a tool to offer that respect.

 

[rootyme]

We Indians love MAKING others our servants, and that's inflates our ego. And that's why we love being addressed as Sirs.

I can personally attest to this point of view. Here is a line from the abusive calls received from Mitsu:

Mitsu screams to me on call: You're a small child, you're saying ki "SIR" it is a mistake, and above that you're filing a complaint?

For the love of God, I never wrote or uttered that word "SIR" to Mitsu in any of my communication with them. But this man is a first class troll who assumed this title on his own.

He has written at least 30 times ever since that I "ARGUED" with him/Registrar team. Whatever that means....

The matter of fact is that the manchild never managed to digest the fact that I didn't call him "SIR" and "dared to ARGUE". Five months later, the company writes on the NCH portal that "Customer, who is a paid propagandist, abused us by trying to teach us English which led to suspension of the domain".

(P.S. Anybody interested in the full transcriptions of all of Mitsu's calls can read this post: https://techenclave.com/threads/consumer-harassment-the-mitsu-in-way.215877/post-2513750)

 

[sauravghosh]

Calling an unknown male sir and a female madam is quite normal. However, if someone really thinks that Indians are not of servile nature then they are simply fooling themselves. This servility is at its peak especially when a govt. official or a high ranking one is addressed to. We will stoop to unfathomable level to get things done. Complete lack of self respect leads to this begging. And on the other the end, insecure minded officials crave that recognition. And the shameful process is thus complete.

I mean ffs Indians are probably the only ones who use the phrase Respected Sir . And similar order phrases which belittles one's own worth. One critically important thing one forgets is that only those who are worthy of any respect should be respected. And the act of respect should start with your own self first. Stupid AF acts like feet touching, reducing to passive begging is anything but respect. We are as fu**ed up as the Americans in terms of this so called culture, just in two different ends.

 

[rootyme]

Stupid AF acts like feet touching, reducing to passive begging is anything but respect. We are as fu**ed up as the Americans in terms of this so called culture, just in two different ends.

Wild take. Correct me if I am wrong but we touch the feet of 'only' our elderly relatives, teachers, and pujaris. How is this stupid and when did it become so?

 

[nRiTeCh]

Lol! How did I missed this thread..

This sir madam saheb culture was more popularized by the Britishers in India or wherever they had ruled.
And there's no wrong addressing someone by a standard salutation is perfectly fine nothing

Add to the list "your good name" well there's no such thing like good name or a bad name nor there's such official naming category and every parents name/call their kid by a good name only not rascal or idiot as an official name.

Saheb cultures got very common around due to our castism and upper/lower caste and job discrimination where the babus and sahebs were always in the top category to get the job done and thus how exploitation and corruption prevailed.

In one of my corporate training we were told to only address everyone incl. ceos directors mds etc. both client and local sides only by their names and this sir sir crap is a typical Indian culture thing which is needless. It actually makes you look fool or a level lower than the other person.
Only in govt. communication or any such official communication across such industries using sir/mam is fine.

 

[variablevector]

Indians this. Indians that. I get tired of the constant criticism and nitpicking of our culture. You will never be able to jump through enough hoops to please gora eyes on the internet. You will never be able to sanitize and "correct" the parts of your culture until you win white approval. And trying to do that is just playing into their hands.

I've never really used SIr/Madam in the workplace or anywhere outside of school, but I don't mind it. It is just a polite way of addressing someone. Maybe some see it as servile because they mistake politeness for weakness, or because they insist on seeing everything we do through a post-colonial lens that demeans us, but you don't need to. Maybe, just maybe we can just do things our way without seeking approval for it from some foreign f*ck.

 

[ssslayer]

Add to the list "your good name" well there's no such thing like good name or a bad name nor there's such official naming category and every parents name/call their kid by a good name only not rascal or idiot as an official name.

Oh but "good name" does makes perfect sense.
What do you call the same in hindi?
"Shubh naam" शुभ नाम
आपका शुभ नाम क्या है ?
Of course the gora people will never get it, and that's why they feel there is no such thing like good name or bad name.

In one of my corporate training we were told to only address everyone incl. ceos directors mds etc. both client and local sides only by their names and this sir sir crap is a typical Indian culture thing which is needless. It actually makes you look fool or a level lower than the other person.
Only in govt. communication or any such official communication across such industries using sir/mam is fine.

To be frank, your corporate trainers appear to be buffoons, because they are themselves promoting a culture they don't agree with.

 

[rootyme]

Indians this. Indians that. I get tired of the constant criticism and nitpicking of our culture. You will never be able to jump through enough hoops to please gora eyes on the internet. You will never be able to sanitize and "correct" the parts of your culture until you win white approval. And trying to do that is just playing into their hands.

I've never really used SIr/Madam in the workplace or anywhere outside of school, but I don't mind it. It is just a polite way of addressing someone. Maybe some see it as servile because they mistake politeness for weakness, or because they insist on seeing everything we do through a post-colonial lens that demeans us, but you don't need to. Maybe, just maybe we can just do things our way without seeking approval for it from some foreign f*ck.

Right? Somebody insults you, and you react. And there'd be guys to point you how Indians have a problem and how Indians get triggered easily. You show respect, and there'd guys to point how Indians are servile. How Indian culture is garbage, how everything Indian is just messed up.

Idk what makes self-loathing and self-pity such a fancy thing but you're going to find such cringe takes on almost every corner of the web. Everything is crap unless it's approved by the west.

This is not without effects. It can seriously make you feel bad for yourself regardless of what you do.

 

[NoobP]

Interesting topic. I have read every post and somewhat agree that Indians tend to have a servile nature (towards government officials. But what can they do? If they don't call them sir/ma'am, their work won't get done as their ego gets hurt. Even if they complain, no action is taken. So they call them sir/ma'am to get the work done hassle-free.) But how would you address someone in an official setting with whom you have no interest and don't wanna know their name? Do you go Suniye Ji? I mean I call doctors as doctor and police officers as officer, but what about the rest? Do you call them with their post name?

And about calling ppl Mr/Mrs, It'd work in English speaking working place, but where regional language is spoken, it'd sound weird, like Mr. Pranjeet/Pranjeet Ji, kya aap is document ko check kar sakte ho? And about calling someone older (5 years+ for me) by their name, It's not in our blood (at least not mine). Even if someone older is in a lower position than you, we indians don't usually call them by their name.

Ahem, anyway, that's lots of rambling, but if you have anything to add, do.

 

[nRiTeCh]

Oh but "good name" does makes perfect sense.
What do you call the same in hindi?
"Shubh naam" शुभ नाम
आपका शुभ नाम क्या है ?
Of course the gora people will never get it, and that's why they feel there is no such thing like good name or bad name.

नाम or name is enough..we Indians always want to add more to that in a pleasing form.
Do let us know if you come across something like an आशुभ नाम then.. It would be interesting going through such आशुभ /bad list of names.. As simple as that!

To be frank, your corporate trainers appear to be buffoons, because they are themselves promoting a culture they don't agree with.

Because they are Indians who are well educated and they know it very well whats actually right or wrong. Just because something has been going on since ages is had to be right.
If this was taught in schools its could have reflected and very well agreed.

Just fyi Indians have in their blood to do chatugiri and please to the next level even when its not required then is how and when the other Indian takes undue advantages... We ourselves are trapped and suffer due to our own doings.

 

[rahuljawale]

Indians this. Indians that. I get tired of the constant criticism and nitpicking of our culture. You will never be able to jump through enough hoops to please gora eyes on the internet. You will never be able to sanitize and "correct" the parts of your culture until you win white approval. And trying to do that is just playing into their hands.

I've never really used SIr/Madam in the workplace or anywhere outside of school, but I don't mind it. It is just a polite way of addressing someone. Maybe some see it as servile because they mistake politeness for weakness, or because they insist on seeing everything we do through a post-colonial lens that demeans us, but you don't need to. Maybe, just maybe we can just do things our way without seeking approval for it from some foreign f*ck.

This TBH! I have lived in Hyderabad for most of my career and people have always been respectful to any stranger they encounter. Most folks address others with -garu suffix which is equivalent of "ji" of in Hindi unless they know the person they are addressing is definitely younger than them. Point being, we are always taught to be respectful towards others.