Hayai is bringing dreams to reality.also,mgcarley,are you yourself using hayai services?:yahoo:
Yes, I use Hayai at home.
and good luck with your debt paying and Acquiring funding....also a 100crs to even justify diversifying in other regions/cities?!!!!
It's not a justification, it's a requirement. It might sound like a lot of money to you, but when you look at what has to be paid for and how much it costs, you'll see how close to the line we have to run to keep it even that low. You have to keep in mind that cities are several hundred KMs apart, and either building or buying that much fiber, it ain't cheap. The cable itself is, yes, but right of way and/or works... not so much. And that doesn't even include the last mile (getting coverage out in the city) which in some cases is even more insanely expensive than the long-distance stuff.
Damn,i am beginning to understand the hardships of your endeavor.Also mgcarley,you have my utmost respect and admiration,not only because you are trying to set up a WHOLE ISP(already set up in mumbai) and you are trying to change the whole ISP scene in India for the better but because you are, i think the CEO/Founder/chairman?(I seriously dunno) of Hayai and yet you are here answering a prospective consumers stupid little questions(well not stupid hey hey..) ,now where can i find Failtel's ceo,oh yeah he's up there counting dollars.So hats Off man!! :hail:you are a real
"karmyogi" ​as we say in hindi,lets see if you can crack its meaning.(also for all this sweet talk i am not expecting a free hayai connection from you :lol
Haha. Don't admire me just yet, please. Just if/when Hayai becomes available where you are, buy the service - and give us lots of feedback whether it's a good, bad or ugly experience. Otherwise, then... well, it's my regret that we probably won't cover 100% of the population but there's only so much I can do there - after all, we do need to be profitable to provide a good service.
mgcarley you disappointed me
The article states that for STM16 wholesale bandwidth BSNL gets Per Megabit for Rs419 of which 236 Rupees is the Access Fee or Cable landing Fees.
So the Access Fee which was 70lakhs/annum as stated in the article which was unchanged since 4years has now Revised to 2.5lakh Rupees/annum.
So that's almost 96% reduction in cost of Access.
You *might* be able to get 2.5 lakhs per annum per STM **if** you buy as much bandwidth as BSNL does (several tens of gigabits), but it's not 16 STMs for 2.5 lakhs - that price is ludicrously low. Moreover, for almost every other ISP that isn't buying half the country's bandwidth, the fees are significantly greater. Standard practice is to give discounts at particular levels: 25% for 4 STMs and a higher percentage for 16 then 64 STMs.
Even **IF** the price were to plummet to the level of Rs15k/year/STM the delivery is by far the highest cost. For BSNL, that's mostly the DSL network and it's expanding FTTH network (I'll conveniently leave out the cellular network for the sake of not complicating the numbers too much)... but to put it in a simple way, if, hypothetically, my wholesale cost on 1GB of data worked out to Re1, I'd probably have to charge *at least* 7 bucks to deliver it - to cover my costs for the aforementioned last mile (staff, DSLAMs, cabinets, offices, right of way, fiber, copper et al ad infinitum).
Cellular would probably cost even more than that 1. because of the high failure rates when delivering packets wirelessly and 2. because of the ridiculous spectrum charges that the government thinks it can levy. In most countries I've researched (which, forgive me, isn't many, but it seems statistically relevant enough), spectrum works out to be between $1 & 2 per citizen per year. The Indian government wants twice that for the upcoming 2G auction, and the cost was even higher for the 3G auction.
If the Access Fee Is reduced, the earlier cost per Megabit is 236 would come down to 15 bucks.
The whole bandwidth Per Mbit is now something like ~200 Bucks For BSNL and Even more less because they have Lots of STM's in their pocket.
You're roughly right in that BSNL gets good pricing due to the amount it buys, yes. But the trickle-down effect is minimal because the cost component of the bandwidth is rather small compared to the total price you pay for access. Not to mention that BSNL could provide full-speed ADSL (so up to 8 or 24mbit/s depending on what equipment is there where you are) **RIGHT NOW** but doesn't for no apparent reason - even if that speed has some FUP associated with it, it would make the range of plans way easier to advertise: get full speed ADSL with 5/10/25/50/100/150/200/300 GB per month for Rs 300/400/550/700/900/1250/1500/2000 + tax (or something), rather than having 1 option at 2mbit/s, another at 4, with the same FUP and different pricing and yada-yada-yada.
It should also be noted that BSNL is deeply in debt, so it's going to want to pay that off first, not to mention it's backbone is, from my perspective, on the verge of falling over due to the strain. I see the congestion at BSNL's network border all the time... here's a performance graph (not from my network). This image is almost real-time:
BSNL Gateway
#6
http://www.hnsbroadband.com/img/bsnl/BSNL_GW06_last_10800.png
http://www.hnsbroadband.com/img/bsnl/BSNL_GW06_last_108000.png
http://www.hnsbroadband.com/img/bsnl/BSNL_GW06_last_864000.png
BSNL Gateway
#5
http://www.hnsbroadband.com/img/bsnl/BSNL_GW05_last_10800.png
http://www.hnsbroadband.com/img/bsnl/BSNL_GW05_last_108000.png
http://www.hnsbroadband.com/img/bsnl/BSNL_GW05_last_864000.png
...and in case you were wondering, yes, SOME fluctuation is normal, but not this much.
Why i think Prices will come down.. New wholesalers like Vodafone,Sify, Pacnet and BSNL(likely) are in to action. Vodafone Growing Good with their Wholesale biz. They have many small ISP's as clients and Pricing is pretty competitive from what i heard.
As mentioned already in the previous post, Vodafone (which now owns C&W), Pacnet etc etc are simply resellers of capacity on Tata/Bharti/Reliance owned cables and can only therefore give so much competition. But again, wholesale bandwidth is but a fraction of the cost of your total bill, so any reductions wouldn't be really *that* significant.
All I want to know is if you guys will set up shop in Ghatkopar and give me 1 mbps for about 6k a year, all incl. Now that, is pretty darn OK. Have been paying the same for almost a year and half. My ISP has started caching, but only for youtube and some sites like microsoft, adobe etc. P2P caching has not been started so far.
Who is "you guys"? If it's me you're referring to, we're in Ghatkopar. And why are your asperations so low? 1mbit/s? Seriously? That's all you want? MTNL pretty much has that already, and I'm happy to let them deal with the 1mbit/s - I'll stick to the high-speed stuff. But that's just me.
Another question which I woulds like to point out is that why does the govt not have a plan for something like a nationwide fiber backbone. We could save a lot of the bandwidth by requesting stuff locally.
It does. But it's cheaping out on it, in my opinion. I think they were going to spend 20k Cr on it (USD$4.5 billion or so) which might sound like a lot, but then you look at other countries currently implementing such networks, and you see my own tiny little New Zealand is spending 6.7k Cr, Australia 244.3k Cr and to Google-Fiber the entirety of the US they reckon it would cost somewhere in the vicinity of 767k Cr. So 20k Crore for a country as big as India and with the population it has is, let's face it, peanuts.
And actually, that comment on the high speed so I will use it for downloading is true, but to an extent. People will start streaming instead of downloading, so still bandwidth will be used, but using caching, this can be reduced.
Spot on. In India, I have a semi-permanent stream of either music or TV streaming from the Youtubes in the background (it helps me concentrate unless I'm on the phone or speaking/writing in a language other than English), mostly because I'm sick to death of dealing with hard drives failing all the time (but that's another saga).
^.. Govt. is actually working on a national broadband backbone... But this is India therefore everything gets delayed.. Wait 10 years or more please...
Even in a country without delays, networks take a long time to build. NZ isn't due to finish until 2019.
I'll be frank with you: the national backbone is a waste of time. There is already plenty of long-distance fiber that can be leased, a lot of it already was built by the government (Railtel has a bunch of fiber spanning the country already, but it's not much in use because they charge too much for providers to access it). The important thing is the last mile - that is, the cable from you to the office of the ISP... that is the part that's the biggest mess and which needs to be fixed most desperately.
Even with the prices coming down the cost to the end user would not plummet 'coz broadband market in India is controlled by biggie's & few smaller ISP's cannot make a dent...
Not true. The smaller ISPs are the ones that are growing the fastest (proportionally). Beam has grown at a pretty decent rate over the last couple of years, and a little birdie tells me it is finally looking to expand to some other cities.
BSNL doesn't have much control over the market in India, it just happens to be the largest provider due to the fact that it is legally obliged to provide in areas where other ISPs can/will not - and every broadband customer in India helps pay for the upkeep of these unprofitable areas through their involuntary contributions to the license fees which ISPs have to pay... and because BSNL is more often than not the only provider in these areas, customers there are stuck with either BSNL or nothing. Monopoly though it may be, it may even be an involuntary monopoly, because I'm sure any accountant worth his salt wets his pants every time he has to go anywhere near the balance sheet.
